Does the quality of your clubs eclipse the quality of your swing/game?

[Mcgeeno]

I’m a 2 cap who plays with single length shovels and has hand made knitted head covers my grandma made me (these hide new Woods but I digress)

 

I’ve gone through the blades and performance, shiny beautiful, premium clubs with premium shafts phase and was usually a 5 handicap poser who hit lots of UGLY shots with pretty looking clubs.

 

Now I play what works and don’t worry one bit about what people think about my bag. Lowest score wins.

[Reb58]

Golf is a hobby, a recreational pursuit for most. And, a relatively inexpensive one to boot.

 

I also have old cars. Many boat. How about RV'ers? Maybe think of road racers, or even bikers of both brands. Musicians...I have way more invested in bass guitars than golf clubs and I suck worse at bass playing than golf.

 

Why care what others do with their disposable income. If concerned, talk about those who have 500% house to income ratio and others who have debt so large, they can't pay minimums each month, those affect us more than worrying if a guy has too much invested in his shabby golf game.

[Jusdec123]

Life is short. Nobody is guaranteed tomorrow. I’ve learned that if I want something and can responsibly afford to purchase it, then I’m buying it.

 

Does my equipment alone make me score better than my playing partners? Absolutely not (been proven lol).

 

[DivinDave]

It depends on what day it is..........

 

Nope, I dont think the quality of my clubs eclipse the quality my swing. They certainly do however, eclipse the quality of my mental game.

[lkbos]

This thread is a mix of 2 unrelated topics:

 

(1) golfers playing equipment that does not fit them: I agree. There are very, very, very few 70+ year old golfers that should be playing DG s300 shafts, unless they are a freak of nature. Even a "fitting" at Dick's would have resulted in more appropriate equipment.

 

(2) golfers playing premium (expensive) equipment when they aren't very good. This one makes absolutely no sense. All clubs from the major OEMs are expensive unless you buy used. Is the OP saying there is a handicap cutoff where you can buy new vs. used?

 

Golf is a hobby. Play what you can afford that gives you the most joy.

[Tim Schoch]

OP is asking if you do play what do you can afford and what brings the most joy, does the quality of those clubs eclipse the level of your game?

 

Not that you should do anything about it. Should a little old lady drive a Vette if it brings her joy? Or and old man play blades and stiff shafts?

 

I guess it really is kind of a non-topic.

[cgasucks]

I'm a 2 cap who plays with single length shovels and has hand made knitted head covers my grandma made me (these hide new Woods but I digress)

 

I've gone through the blades and performance, shiny beautiful, premium clubs with premium shafts phase and was usually a 5 handicap poser who hit lots of UGLY shots with pretty looking clubs.

 

Now I play what works and don't worry one bit about what people think about my bag. Lowest score wins.

 

A guy with a handicap that low can shoot a low score with gardening tools. Just play with what you like and have confidence in.

[Bye]

My shiny driver is of much higher quality than the swing that goes with it. I may as well nail 2 pieces of wood together.

[Martyball]

My shiny driver is of much higher quality than the swing that goes with it. I may as well nail 2 pieces of wood together.

Says the guy with a 1 handicap. :)

[new2g0lf]

I don't apologize for how much my clubs cost but I have learned the hard way that it's better for ME to play clubs that fit my swing and game. When i first got into golf, I wanted to play blades, I tried Titleist MB's, Mizuno MP-68's and struggled. It became apparent that while other high handicappers seemed to do okay with blades I needed the additional forgiveness that GI irons provide.

[SwingBlade]

Geez... now we're telling older golfers they are idiots for playing stiffs, financially comfortable golfers that they should play cheaper clubs, and every golfer that they shouldn't play the clubs they want.

 

The best amateur golfer I've ever known used x-stiff shafts to shoot his age from 65 to 85. I feel kinda bad that I didn't tell him to switch to regular shafts and then senior shafts as the years went by.

 

Here's a little secret... playing what gives one confidence will almost always yield better scores on average than playing what's "smart."

 

The quality of the school you attend, the person you marry, the car you drive, and the sports equipment you use should always exceed your game. It's how most people, but not all people, get better throughout life.

[Matt J]

I'm probably more into my clubs, the specs at least, than anyone I know.

 

I built them, I bend them, I chose the shafts, I swingweight them specifically club by club, I regrip them frequently, and I clean and maintain them.

 

I've never met an incredibly good golfer that was very into his gear. Most get fit and then let it go.

[tannyhoban]

I have yet to find the full set to match the yin yang artistry of my golf swing.

 

I settle instead for inferior equipment.

[llamont]

My bag my business ;-)

[Tim Schoch]

Geez... now we're telling older golfers they are idiots for playing stiffs, financially comfortable golfers that they should play cheaper clubs, and every golfer that they shouldn't play the clubs they want.

 

The best amateur golfer I've ever known used x-stiff shafts to shoot his age from 65 to 85. I feel kinda bad that I didn't tell him to switch to regular shafts and then senior shafts as the years went by.

 

Here's a little secret... playing what gives one confidence will almost always yield better scores on average than playing what's "smart."

 

The quality of the school you attend, the person you marry, the car you drive, and the sports equipment you use should always exceed your game. It's how most people, but not all people, get better throughout life.

 

Not sure anyone here is calling anyone an idiot, yet. But I'm not sure why some are so defensive about the clubs you choose to play and why you chose them. Sure, play what the heck you want. But--on topic--some hackers buy high-end clubs and it would be nice hear from how they feel about their elite clubs, or vice-versa. We've heard from good golfers who play shovels, which is really cool. That's talent.

 

The only thing helpful informed people here are suggesting is that typically someone improves his/her game by being fitted according to standard guidelines. This is a smart choice most people advocate and it gives most folks a measure of confidence and satisfaction. Doesn't work for everyone for various reasons, usually they had a bad experience. That's not a debate, it's a choice.

 

Some people just refuse to take goodhearted suggestions or advice, they don't like to think too hard about golf, fine, so they know they'll never get better or worse and they just have a good time. Nothing wrong with that at all. Again, not a debate. Also, not the topic here.

 

I think this topic, if we'd stick to it, can be very funny. Or maybe I'm wrong?

[finleysg]

I don't doubt that I would be better served with more forgiving wrenches, but I like the look of my S55's. There also may be better drivers for my swing than my XR Pro, but I love the clean look of the clubhead and the matte black finish. It's a stealth driver -- the Russians will never see me coming...

 

I think there are a lot of us who play clubs we think are nice looking.

[cgasucks]

Nope. I shoot mid 80s and my ping G20 irons, G25 fairway and hybrid, and R9 Supertri driver are wonderful.

 

Regarding this topic in general. Each person is entitled to spend their $$ as they see fit.

 

If you want to talk about ridiculous cost for your hobby, try hockey goalie gear. It's close to $3k just for leg pads and gloves, that are completely shot/useless after only 2-3 years.

 

Totally agree...before golf, I was huge into hockey in the 90s and can't believe the cost of hockey sticks these days. These composite sticks now these days are almost the price of a driver. I would cry my a** off if I broke one while playing.

[shakey]

In relation to something posted earlier in the thread, I had a customer, an older gentleman...looked to be 80+, come into my store and walk into our simulator. He grabbed a blade head with either an S300 or X100 (I don't remember which). Five balls later he hadn't gotten one airborne or past 100 yards. As I was talking to him, I handed him a club to try. First swing got up to a solid launch angle and flew twenty yards past where any of the others had finished rolling. He asked what I had given him. I told him it was a senior graphite (again..don't remember exactly what head). He politely handed it back to me shaking his head. His response.."Nope. I've played stiff steel all my life and that's all I'll ever play!"

 

Some guys will play what they want no matter what. And that's ok.

[pinestreetgolf]

But--on topic--some hackers buy high-end clubs and it would be nice hear from how they feel about their elite clubs, or vice-versa. We've heard from good golfers who play shovels, which is really cool. That's talent.

 

Yes and no. Good topic, btw. I think there are two things at play here, speaking as a guy who plays both really casual weeknight rounds and the usual low single digit middle age guy amateur events (mid am, state am, club champ, open qualifier, etc...).

 

1. Its not talent, its two things: experience / information and lack of self-consciousness. I play shovels from 2008 because I know exactly what they are going to do. Its actually calming to put my hands on my irons in an event and feel that familiar NDMC, D3 feel and look down at the CB, beat-up head. I do that because I want predictability from my irons, not distance, and I don't want to be pumped full of adrenaline when I hit them. Further, most good players don't care at all what they look like to the other golfers they play with or are around. Most bad players only care about what everyone is thinking about them while they play. I don't care if I line drive a 5 iron into a 130 yard pin, I just want to be close. A lot of golfers try to hit it close AND look good doing it, which is much harder to do. I've been 40 yards past guys off the tee and then they're hitting an iron or two less than me into greens!

 

Bad golfers concentrate on the wrong thing when they choose what sticks to put in their bags: flight, shot shape, contact sound. None of those matter compared to the mack daddy: proximity. Which do you hit closest, and which can you miss thin? (<- thin misses are by far the easiest to recover from and control, its the best miss to have by a mile). I can't tell you how many times I've watched some guy with a two-foot reverse pivot hitting shiny new irons really high at no target on the range. They must feel great. Until he has an actual target, at distance, and can hit it too far, and starts de-celerating about halfway into his reverse pivot. Hit at targets with a distance when testing out those shiny new sticks. They get a lot worse real fast.

 

I know some fitter will disagree with me here, but don't pick irons by seeing which you hit furthest and straightest off a mat in front of a computer with no target. That's nonsense. Go outside, pick a target, laser it, and hit at it. Off grass. Otherwise your results are about as real as the driving range on the computer.

 

So, yes, people should play whatever they want, but they should differentiate between clubs for distance and proximity and stop picking equipment that hits pretty shots (A lot of modern irons look really good as they sail right and short again!) and pick equipment that hits it close. Sometimes I see guys who can't get the ball off the ground with a 4 iron in their bags. What are they going to do with that? Garden? I can't hit a 4 iron as a 3 cap well enough to keep it in the bag - I go to hybrids. They don't have a prayer of realistically hitting that club with their swing. Ego is the only reason its in that bag.

 

I'd make anyone over an 8 cap a bet - you go to the range with your 4 iron, and I'll bring a modern hybrid with an inexpensive, decent shaft (e.g. NV stiff 85). You get 30 balls to a target 210 away. The hybrid will destroy the 4 iron.

 

So, to the original question, as long as you are playing *for you* then have at it! Play the equipment you want. I suspect, though, that a lot of it is ego/for others ("I'd look like a wuss puling a hybrid on a 175 yard par 3!") and that is actively harmful to your golf game (e.g. the 4 iron example).

 

2. Woods are always a huge advantage to have new. You can argue with me all you want about how "nothing has changed" since 2007 or whatever, but you go to an elite amateur event and they ALL have Epics or M1/M2s. A few Cobra, a few G series. Virtually nobody has anything more than 2 years old in the driver (you'll see irons from 2002, but never a driver from before 2016). The one exception to this I saw all tournament season was the final group of the club champs on Sunday I played with a guy who gamed a 905d (he beat me bad and finished second too). Other than that, its all top-line woods. So I don't care how good you are, you should play the best driver you can afford.

 

So, you have it a little backwards. We don't play well "with shovels" because we're good golfers. We're good golfers because we play clubs that deliver predictable results in terms of proximity. Its not like we're purposefully handicapping ourselves and relying on our talent to bail us out because we don't want to buy Apex Pros. Playing beat up clubs in the irons and wedges is a symptom of a player who doesn't care what other golfers think, which is a prerequisite to being any good at this game. There are golfers on this forum right now where if I could snap my fingers and take away their self-consciousness would drop 10 strokes at least.

 

So, I think the biggest issue for higher caps here isn't "is your equipment too expensive" but rather "Are you evaluating it correctly?" i.e. are you evaluating it based on proximity or how your shots "look" ? And you should upgrade your driver every two years if you are serious about your game. Period. I don't want to hear about the time you shot 82 with an R9 supertri. The Epic eats its lunch and you know it.

[BYK]

Absolutely they do.

But I enjoy them an awful lot, and to me it's worth it

[Tim Schoch]

I'm probably more into my clubs, the specs at least, than anyone I know.

 

I built them, I bend them, I chose the shafts, I swingweight them specifically club by club, I regrip them frequently, and I clean and maintain them.

 

I've never met an incredibly good golfer that was very into his gear. Most get fit and then let it go.

 

Arnold Palmer, for one, was up to his eyeballs in gear making, tinkering, collection. I think most of today's tour players head for the equipment truck of their sponsor.

[Matt J]

In relation to something posted earlier in the thread, I had a customer, an older gentleman...looked to be 80+, come into my store and walk into our simulator. He grabbed a blade head with either an S300 or X100 (I don't remember which). Five balls later he hadn't gotten one airborne or past 100 yards. As I was talking to him, I handed him a club to try. First swing got up to a solid launch angle and flew twenty yards past where any of the others had finished rolling. He asked what I had given him. I told him it was a senior graphite (again..don't remember exactly what head). He politely handed it back to me shaking his head. His response.."Nope. I've played stiff steel all my life and that's all I'll ever play!"

 

Some guys will play what they want no matter what. And that's ok.

 

I always played R300's as I preferred a little more finesse in my move. Finally I realized that stiffer equipment and a more aggressive swing is longer and straighter for me. It's such a two way street as we adapt to our equipment. Hard for most guys to realize that the 2nd 3rd 4th and 100th swing on the range don't matter. You have to step up and use your one try to advance the ball.

[new2g0lf]

Unless you're an aspiring Tour player, golf is a hobby and recreational activity so whatever type of clubs someone chooses to play or how much they cost should not matter to anyone else on the course. There is also a misconception that everyone who plays golf is a gear head and knows the differences between the different head types and shafts.

 

I met a guy who appeared to be a very high handicapper with Miura blades. I complimented his irons and he thanked me then said he wished he could hit them better. I asked him what made him go with Miura's and he said his buddy at work is a great golfer and he figured he'd just get the same clubs his buddy owned since he didn't know what else to get.

[Tim Schoch]

Unless you're an aspiring Tour player, golf is a hobby and recreational activity so whatever type of clubs someone chooses to play or how much they cost should not matter to anyone else on the course. There is also a misconception that everyone who plays golf is a gear head and knows the differences between the different head types and shafts.

 

I met a guy who appeared to be a very high handicapper with Miura blades. I complimented his irons and he thanked me then said he wished he could hit them better. I asked him what made him go with Miura's and he said his buddy at work is a great golfer and he figured he'd just get the same clubs his buddy owned since he didn't know what else to get.

 

You're leaving out the fantasy-life part of playing golf, the imagination to place yourself in real competition with a chance to win. Hackers do this every weekend with their buds, in between trash-talk and insane bets.

 

It's the feeling of the pure shot, seeing the ball arc high and stiff the pin, sinking the long meaningful putt with your best friends as witnesses, etc. Whatever brings me all that wonder of shots and imagination in the game, those are the clubs I want to use, those are the clubs I seek out, examine with my friends, research online. And when I have the clubs, I want to become the very best I can be, given time and money, so I can make all those great things about golf happen more often.

 

This game is not a hobby to millions. Football and baseball are one step away from falling asleep in the recliner compared to golf. Golf, you can not only watch it, but you can choose your own clubs and accessories and step out onto the course and prove your stuff. It is personal, fulfilling, social, bonding, etc., etc.

 

For all these reasons, and more, we love to talk about this stuff and be there when others talk about this stuff. There is no misconception here. Look where we are having this conversation. Gear heads and wannabe gear heads galore. And those who don't know enough about gear and swing planes, they borrow or buy the best set they can (perhaps by asking a good golfer what he plays) then get out and play. I have never played with anyone who isn't questing to know how to get better.

 

We are all different here, with different tastes and opinions. On the course, opinions and tastes and club brands don't matter. Did you win the hole? Nuff said.

[leftie]

Not as bad as folks that slow poke around in their Porsches.

 

Could've ended the thread right here. No one is topping this response. Simple and brilliant. I tip my hat to you sir!

SUV drivers who slow to 1mph to go over speed humps or when entering driveways is up there as well.

 

On topic. Depending on the day, I either match my clubs quality or I'm not worthy. Flip of a coin that one..

[Larry The Golfing Doc]

I play a nice matched set of PineMeadow stuff I got at Wally World for 89.99, bag included. It far surpasses my game.

 

Kidding aside, I buy a crap ton of equipment searching for the holy grail. New, old, used, etc. if it's been invented I typically try it with high hopes. I normally let it down much more than it lets me down. Days I'm on, it matters not what equipment I'm playing. On the days I'm off, it makes no difference either. The bottom barrel stuff is better and more consistent then me and the vast majority of golfers. On a great day I could take that PineMeadow set around the course in Par. On an off day I couldn't take 25k worth of clubs out and break 80.

 

It doesn't stop me from buying and playing equipment that I think will help. I am realistic about it though and realize that if it makes a difference of 5 strokes, I'd be very surprised. In golf it's much more about the Indian than the arrow. Good contact with a crap club will still be pretty good. Crap contact with a great club will still be crap.

[playa]

I certainly hope my clubs are of a higher quality than my game.

[Belmont148]

I would lose that challenge as I already carry a 4H and couldn't hit the 210 target. Not sure if I could get it there with my 3H. Maybe with some bounce and roll out.

[Ben Berube]

Not as bad as folks that slow poke around in their Porsches.

 

I think Leo says it best. You see guys driving Porsche 911 Turbos, GT3's and evenGT2's which are race ready street cars $200k monters. When some punk driving a loud Civic can probably outdrive the Porsche guys is quite embarrassing. But is he not supposed to have that Porsche gt2 he rightfully paid for with his hard work or inheritance he got from Aunt Matilda??

 

The benefit of living in this world is we can all do whatever we want. This isn't Russia or any other communist country where everyone is supposed to be the same even though they never are. We can suck at golf and have a full bag of PXG's or be scratch and still play some MP33's with black rust spots on every iron. Its our choice and up to us what we spend our $$ on and then what time is involved.

 

 

[Tim Schoch]

Not as bad as folks that slow poke around in their Porsches.

 

I think Leo says it best. You see guys driving Porsche 911 Turbos, GT3's and evenGT2's which are race ready street cars $200k monters. When some punk driving a loud Civic can probably outdrive the Porsche guys is quite embarrassing. But is he not supposed to have that Porsche gt2 he rightfully paid for with his hard work or inheritance he got from Aunt Matilda??

 

The benefit of living in this world is we can all do whatever we want. This isn't Russia or any other communist country where everyone is supposed to be the same even though they never are. We can suck at golf and have a full bag of PXG's or be scratch and still play some MP33's with black rust spots on every iron. Its our choice and up to us what we spend our $$ on and then what time is involved.

 

Benny, OMG. Is anyone here saying people should give up the clubs they love? And you bring a Russia conspiracy into the topic? Only few have accurately answered the simple yet humorous topic. Why are so many of you offended or defensive? Seriously, I'd love to know.