Crossfield on staff with Titleist (MERGED)

[Nixhex524]

^^^^^^

WTF?

 

Just trying to have a friendly discussion with a fellow member.. feel free to jump in constructively if you can.

I would if I could work out what your point was. Never mind me please continue.

 

Obviously Gary and I are misunderstand each other, best to move on for sure. Sorry you got dragged into it Londoner.

[mosesgolf]

OMG imagine someone actually getting paid for something because of their reputation and being good at what they do. What is this world coming to?

[kevingopher]

Finch just indicated that he's getting a brand deal...sooo...is he a sellout now?

 

Yep.

 

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that he didn’t realise Crossfield moved the needle that much....... clearly Finch doesn’t !!

[tjl48]

Finch just indicated that he's getting a brand deal...sooo...is he a sellout now?

 

Yep.

 

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that he didn’t realise Crossfield moved the needle that much....... clearly Finch doesn’t !!

 

Finch does not do club reviews. That is why. Everyone is talking about this because this affects a major part of his content.

[mahonie]

According to Crossfield on Twitter, TM have already thrown their toys out of the pram and are not going to supply product for reviews in the future. Implication that they aren’t happy that they didn’t get the gig as they were also involved in discussions. Definitely going to be a few interesting months ahead.

[SJP1]

I think this whole YouTube golf pro/content thing is really interesting. I watch this stuff probably at least as much as I do Netflix etc, if not more.

 

I watch all three discussed above- Crossfield, Shiels and Finch - and I'd rank them in that order (for my taste).

 

I think there's something in there for everyone, but really do not understand the hate - whether it's between them on social or other people bagging them on social media. The way I see it, if you don't like it, don't watch it. Vote with your mouse or subscriptions... (Me & My Golf just aren't for me and so rather than bag those two guys I just don't watch them).

 

Anyway, the other three. They are all very different in terms of content and delivery - and as I said, I think there's bits in there for everyone.

 

I think Finch is a genuinely nice guy but he lays it on so thick in his videos it gets a bit frustrating. His 'schtick' of pretending he's a bit of a doofus and mucks up all the time but smiles through it or does a fake laugh while talking wore thin quite a long time ago. His cheese is just a bit unbearable at times and I just really, really wish he was a bit less pantomime/hammed up. I like to persevere with him because he's clearly a good fella but a lot of his videos I can't watch or make it through ("The Perfect Grip", "Smash it 350 yards"). I like to tune in for his more real stuff like Quest for The Open and think there's genuine merit in that for a lot of people. Lovely guy, but a saccharine delivery.

 

Shiels is the best for seeing reviews of new gear quickly. He's likeable but does talk a bit of nonsense at times (often makes up words, possibly without knowing and is just reaching, trying to articulate his thoughts), but again he seems nice, has good intentions and is just a bit more natural than Peter Finch. Rick's downfall (for me) though is he comes across less informed than Crossfield and could do more than just trying to smash driver or do arbitrary club rankings like he's been doing for Christmas/NY. It just feels a bit too amateur and more like a club pro would talk/sell to you, rather than an informed coach saying, "you see that 200 rpm, that's you, not the club making the difference." I've really enjoyed his Quest stuff too and also his Pro-Am blogs (Turkey, Woburn etc) have been excellent - giving people insight into the tour pro game and sharing experiences.

 

Crossfield is my favourite of the three but not without his faults. I like that he has felt the most impartial and for my money, is the most informed and credible from a technical/coaching standpoint. He deals in fact has done a good job of cutting through the PR and explaining to consumers what they need to look for for their own buying process. His stuff with Ray/Rory (and his defence of him being a 7 handicap) is quite annoying and a bit of a downer as Rory generally is a punch bag for the course and a verbal punch bag for the others, but Lockey is fantastic. Crossfield's Vlogs are great fun I think Lockey is a great role model for how a lot of good amateur players could cut out a bit of BS and just have fun and not take it too seriously. Lockey seems like great fun to play with.

 

I'm a Titlest fanboy and my bag is 100% Titleist... But... Crossfield's Titleist deal raises clear questions about impartiality on reviews. He can no longer be impartial. He has seemed genuinely fair, but now he can't just pretend that he's still the same old reviewer when he's now on a brands payroll. That doesn't wash.

 

I do like the majority of his Vlogs, but that's more entertainment than information. I think his value going forward is to keep doing the Vlogs but leave the day-to-day reviews to Shiels, in favour of monthly reviews based on general theory, basically acting as a bit of an antidote to Rick's occasional tendency to swallow the hype a bit - or at least just regurgitate the press release without any or much critical thinking.

 

I also think Crossfield should also use his new Acushnet deal to really open up more insights on tour and shine a light for the golf fan on the pro life we will never get to see - such as Shiels and Finch do in their Pro-Ams which is really interesting. I think it's really important for someone like Mark to be out there making the laws of coaching and club design clear for the masses - cutting through the marketing spin. But, he doesn't have to do that 24/7.

 

I'd like to see his Crossfield's channel evolve to become less about reviewing the latest model of driver, to concentrating more about empowering consumers generally and being a window on the world most don't get to see. He's great fun and very relatable, but I think the club review stuff needs to be scaled back a bit now. It still has absolute value, but I don't think his credibly stand against Shiels on that - regardless of who you think is better. I think Crossfield is better in that space but you have to give it to Shiels for not being on a club makers' payroll. You can have the best of intentions but if you're picking up a paycheque, it's just not transparent.

 

So, as I said, there's something for everyone!

[Holy Moses]

TaylorMade will not be giving clubs to Mark for him to test as a result of the Titleist signing

[Galanga]

Michael Newton Golf does some good club reviews. More reserved in presentation than Mark or Rick, but, I think very good.

[Bubbtubbs]

One of my favorite reviewers.

 

I don't think it will change much. His reviews have always been very neutral, and even the clubs he loves seem to barely get a nod rather than a shower of praise. Plus, he's very much a believer in the "Indian-not-the-arrow" philosophy.

 

Glad to see he's getting some recognition and moving forward in his career.

[flog2]

According to Crossfield on Twitter, TM have already thrown their toys out of the pram and are not going to supply product for reviews in the future. Implication that they aren’t happy that they didn’t get the gig as they were also involved in discussions. Definitely going to be a few interesting months ahead.

its a shame to see petty tweets from Shiels and Finch regarding that. Theres no need for petty childish comments when all Mark has done is state a fact.

 

On another slight aside point, I believe Shiels only has more subs than crossfield just now due to 'buying' subscribers with giveaways. Just a point to ponder.

[flog2]

One of my favorite reviewers.

 

I don't think it will change much. His reviews have always been very neutral, and even the clubs he loves seem to barely get a nod rather than a shower of praise. Plus, he's very much a believer in the "Indian-not-the-arrow" philosophy.

 

Glad to see he's getting some recognition and moving forward in his career.

plus he proves it by hitting every club he reviews well.....as do other youtubers. It also just proves a certain manufacturers club really isnt going to improve your game one bit....apart from between the ears.

[mahonie]

According to Crossfield on Twitter, TM have already thrown their toys out of the pram and are not going to supply product for reviews in the future. Implication that they aren’t happy that they didn’t get the gig as they were also involved in discussions. Definitely going to be a few interesting months ahead.

its a shame to see petty tweets from Shiels and Finch regarding that. Theres no need for petty childish comments when all Mark has done is state a fact.

 

On another slight aside point, I believe Shiels only has more subs than crossfield just now due to 'buying' subscribers with giveaways. Just a point to ponder.

 

I agree. It may be that Crossfield is of my generation thereabouts, but I find Shiels very difficult to watch. Every review I’ve seen tends to focus on how far he can hit each club. He seems to have been convinced by the marketing before he hits any club which to me make his reviews pretty pointless. The only review I actually enjoyed of his was when he hit the Ben Hogans when he hadn’t got much of a clue about their heritage but was blown away by their performance...I think he put them in the bag for a while.

[QEight]

Needs combined with other thread.

 

And moved to the Rules...

[flog2]

I've just unfollowed Peter Finch as his last two vlogs focused on how you should look after you hit the ball!! he even said your position after hitting it affects the downswing! Plus I hate the condescending way he talks to viewers as if its a Kindergarten group! Probably a nice guy but I can understand big words now Peter thank you.

[Hawkeye77]

Needs combined with other thread.

 

And moved to the Rules...

 

LOL, we have serious below zero day and night all weekend (that's real Fahrenheit for the Celsius weenies), move this to Rules, the site explodes and I have nothing to do!

[SDickenson642]

I think this whole YouTube golf pro/content thing is really interesting. I watch this stuff probably at least as much as I do Netflix etc, if not more.

 

I watch all three discussed above- Crossfield, Shiels and Finch - and I'd rank them in that order (for my taste).

 

I think there's something in there for everyone, but really do not understand the hate - whether it's between them on social or other people bagging them on social media. The way I see it, if you don't like it, don't watch it. Vote with your mouse or subscriptions... (Me & My Golf just aren't for me and so rather than bag those two guys I just don't watch them).

 

Anyway, the other three. They are all very different in terms of content and delivery - and as I said, I think there's bits in there for everyone.

 

I think Finch is a genuinely nice guy but he lays it on so thick in his videos it gets a bit frustrating. His 'schtick' of pretending he's a bit of a doofus and mucks up all the time but smiles through it or does a fake laugh while talking wore thin quite a long time ago. His cheese is just a bit unbearable at times and I just really, really wish he was a bit less pantomime/hammed up. I like to persevere with him because he's clearly a good fella but a lot of his videos I can't watch or make it through ("The Perfect Grip", "Smash it 350 yards"). I like to tune in for his more real stuff like Quest for The Open and think there's genuine merit in that for a lot of people. Lovely guy, but a saccharine delivery.

 

Shiels is the best for seeing reviews of new gear quickly. He's likeable but does talk a bit of nonsense at times (often makes up words, possibly without knowing and is just reaching, trying to articulate his thoughts), but again he seems nice, has good intentions and is just a bit more natural than Peter Finch. Rick's downfall (for me) though is he comes across less informed than Crossfield and could do more than just trying to smash driver or do arbitrary club rankings like he's been doing for Christmas/NY. It just feels a bit too amateur and more like a club pro would talk/sell to you, rather than an informed coach saying, "you see that 200 rpm, that's you, not the club making the difference." I've really enjoyed his Quest stuff too and also his Pro-Am blogs (Turkey, Woburn etc) have been excellent - giving people insight into the tour pro game and sharing experiences.

 

Crossfield is my favourite of the three but not without his faults. I like that he has felt the most impartial and for my money, is the most informed and credible from a technical/coaching standpoint. He deals in fact has done a good job of cutting through the PR and explaining to consumers what they need to look for for their own buying process. His stuff with Ray/Rory (and his defence of him being a 7 handicap) is quite annoying and a bit of a downer as Rory generally is a punch bag for the course and a verbal punch bag for the others, but Lockey is fantastic. Crossfield's Vlogs are great fun I think Lockey is a great role model for how a lot of good amateur players could cut out a bit of BS and just have fun and not take it too seriously. Lockey seems like great fun to play with.

 

I'm a Titlest fanboy and my bag is 100% Titleist... But... Crossfield's Titleist deal raises clear questions about impartiality on reviews. He can no longer be impartial. He has seemed genuinely fair, but now he can't just pretend that he's still the same old reviewer when he's now on a brands payroll. That doesn't wash.

 

I do like the majority of his Vlogs, but that's more entertainment than information. I think his value going forward is to keep doing the Vlogs but leave the day-to-day reviews to Shiels, in favour of monthly reviews based on general theory, basically acting as a bit of an antidote to Rick's occasional tendency to swallow the hype a bit - or at least just regurgitate the press release without any or much critical thinking.

 

I also think Crossfield should also use his new Acushnet deal to really open up more insights on tour and shine a light for the golf fan on the pro life we will never get to see - such as Shiels and Finch do in their Pro-Ams which is really interesting. I think it's really important for someone like Mark to be out there making the laws of coaching and club design clear for the masses - cutting through the marketing spin. But, he doesn't have to do that 24/7.

 

I'd like to see his Crossfield's channel evolve to become less about reviewing the latest model of driver, to concentrating more about empowering consumers generally and being a window on the world most don't get to see. He's great fun and very relatable, but I think the club review stuff needs to be scaled back a bit now. It still has absolute value, but I don't think his credibly stand against Shiels on that - regardless of who you think is better. I think Crossfield is better in that space but you have to give it to Shiels for not being on a club makers' payroll. You can have the best of intentions but if you're picking up a paycheque, it's just not transparent.

 

So, as I said, there's something for everyone!

 

This is how you contribute to a forum without acting like a child. You sir have won the internet today. Dilly Dilly

[Hawkeye77]

Finch just indicated that he's getting a brand deal...sooo...is he a sellout now?

 

Yep.

 

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that he didn’t realise Crossfield moved the needle that much....... clearly Finch doesn’t !!

 

Well Kevin, you need to pony up some facts.

 

In the world of golf instructors on YouTube, other than Me and My Golf, Shiels and Crossfield make a list of the "hot" or popular instructors that get touted and make a list of the top 10 and let's see how subscriber numbers stack up. He seems to move the needle pretty good. But you get us some evidence on that.

 

Jealousy and envy are cruel mistresses, or masters.

[Hawkeye77]

According to Crossfield on Twitter, TM have already thrown their toys out of the pram and are not going to supply product for reviews in the future. Implication that they aren’t happy that they didn’t get the gig as they were also involved in discussions. Definitely going to be a few interesting months ahead.

its a shame to see petty tweets from Shiels and Finch regarding that. Theres no need for petty childish comments when all Mark has done is state a fact.

 

On another slight aside point, I believe Shiels only has more subs than crossfield just now due to 'buying' subscribers with giveaways. Just a point to ponder.

 

This is hardly petty and going with the internet herd to put words in his mouth or ascribe motives isn't cool. I'll take his approach and attitude, and Finch's for that matter. And this was up to read well before you posted.

 

Don't see a single tweet of the kind you describe from Finch at all.

 

https://twitter.com/RickShielsPGA

[flog2]

According to Crossfield on Twitter, TM have already thrown their toys out of the pram and are not going to supply product for reviews in the future. Implication that they aren’t happy that they didn’t get the gig as they were also involved in discussions. Definitely going to be a few interesting months ahead.

its a shame to see petty tweets from Shiels and Finch regarding that. Theres no need for petty childish comments when all Mark has done is state a fact.

 

On another slight aside point, I believe Shiels only has more subs than crossfield just now due to 'buying' subscribers with giveaways. Just a point to ponder.

 

This is hardly petty and going with the internet herd to put words in his mouth or ascribe motives isn't cool. I'll take his approach and attitude, and Finch's for that matter. And this was up to read well before you posted.

 

Don't see a single tweet of the kind you describe from Finch at all.

 

https://twitter.com/RickShielsPGA

Shiels wasnt as Petty as Finches retorts I'll grant you that. I dont follow your logic in saying he had posted an explanation on his tweets before I posted? it doesnt change the intent, meant or otherwise.

[cliche]

i'm pretty sure that crossfield will continue to fire shots against companies and their product claims, as he has done before. only time will tell how that titleist deal will affect the reviews. i don't think it will.

we will just so more titleist gear in his vlogs.

[Hawkeye77]

According to Crossfield on Twitter, TM have already thrown their toys out of the pram and are not going to supply product for reviews in the future. Implication that they aren’t happy that they didn’t get the gig as they were also involved in discussions. Definitely going to be a few interesting months ahead.

its a shame to see petty tweets from Shiels and Finch regarding that. Theres no need for petty childish comments when all Mark has done is state a fact.

 

On another slight aside point, I believe Shiels only has more subs than crossfield just now due to 'buying' subscribers with giveaways. Just a point to ponder.

 

This is hardly petty and going with the internet herd to put words in his mouth or ascribe motives isn't cool. I'll take his approach and attitude, and Finch's for that matter. And this was up to read well before you posted.

 

Don't see a single tweet of the kind you describe from Finch at all.

 

https://twitter.com/RickShielsPGA

Shiels wasnt as Petty as Finches retorts I'll grant you that. I dont follow your logic in saying he had posted an explanation on his tweets before I posted? it doesnt change the intent, meant or otherwise.

 

Then let's see the snarky stuff you are referring to, these guys are classy, Mark (though I like him) could be a little classier a lot more often.

[Medic]

Here's how this thread went down. Those of you who have known me since I've been on here know I don't mind admitting when I did something stupid.

 

So I watch the Crossfield video about his Titleist change. I am about to bust. Lots of questions pop up. Lockey still in? More travel into the US? So, in this excited state I come popping in here and go right to Tour Talk. Having posted other threads in this area about other non-touring pros it was just where I went. I searched to see if there was already a thread on Mark's change and seeing none started this one.

Lesson learned - should have done full search in search bar which would have shown the other thread in Equipment.

 

I posted this thread late the night of Christmas. So shortly after I posted it I went back to doing something family related.

 

Came back the next day and saw replies showing the other thread. Crap.

So I posted an admission at that point and figured the Mods would merge it as they have done a bazillion times before. Moses even had pointed out that it was in need of a move. Unfortunately some members (new guy actually) decided to reply with "How many wins does he have on tour?" This is how a lot of threads start to head down the dark path. Fortunately most of the replies stayed on course and the newbie's reply did not serve to totally derail things.

 

The bottom line is simple. I was down with a slight (if any such thing exist) case of flu on Christmas night and was really excited to share some news about an online personality who I really enjoy. Having shared things about Crossfield, Shiels et al here in Tour Talk before I jump came into this section. I really hope that this thread does either get nuked or merged. Never was my intent to end up duplicating efforts.

[Greg_egg]

I don't see why other OEMs would stop sending him clubs. If you watch the majority of the guys on youtube their message is that it is the player who will determine what club is best. Their criticisms primarily relate to how the club looks to their eye etc...so all subjective and something which the individual needs to test for themselves. Re the other OEMs I can tell you from the manufacturers perspective it is a very cheap form of advertising and brand awareness for them.

 

I don't think Titleist are sponsoring him for his reviews anyway. They just want cheap advertising and brand awareness in vlogs and the like.

 

The club reviews IMO are the least interesting part of Mark's channel and are the videos I rarely watch. His course and daily vlogs are the interesting ones.

 

Bit of an overreaction from a few here.

[Hawkeye77]

Medic, don't worry even a little bit, can't believe anyone cares. I had the flu Christmas Eve and Christmas a few years ago - it sucks.

[Hawkeye77]

Though having their respective legions "battling" is probably good for all of them - have at it.

[Nixhex524]

Have a great day nixhex.

 

Not here to offer anything other than an apology for the miscommunication and coming off like a dick. Flu is raging through my house and I feel like I haven’t slept in a week, sorry Gary, I’m having trouble at life right now. Lol.

 

I have no dog in this, carry on all.

[BKN1964]

If the part about TaylorMade discussing sponsoring, but then deciding to not send him clubs for review anymore because he signed with someone else is true, it seems pretty hypocritical: "Signing with us is fine, signing with somebody else is unacceptable."

[Hawkeye77]

If the part about TaylorMade discussing sponsoring, but then deciding to not send him clubs for review anymore because he signed with someone else is true, it seems pretty hypocritical: "Signing with us is fine, signing with somebody else is unacceptable."

 

He'll get plenty of mileage out of the whole TM thing, and really, who cares if TM sends him anything, they have no obligation to do so whatsoever, especially if he is a Titleist guy now. People act like there is some "moral" obligation because he happens to review clubs. No big deal. They can market how they please. Doubt they send prototypes of all their new clubs to Jordan Spieth or waste money and time sending them to people with other club deals.

 

Golf Digest will be happy to rate them all "gold".

 

Literally a tempest in a teapot for Mark to exploit and nobody else to really care.

[Londoner]

If the part about TaylorMade discussing sponsoring, but then deciding to not send him clubs for review anymore because he signed with someone else is true, it seems pretty hypocritical: "Signing with us is fine, signing with somebody else is unacceptable."

 

He'll get plenty of mileage out of the whole TM thing, and really, who cares if TM sends him anything, they have no obligation to do so whatsoever, especially if he is a Titleist guy now. People act like there is some "moral" obligation because he happens to review clubs. No bid deal. They can market how they please. Doubt they send prototypes of all their new clubs to Jordan Spieth or waste money and time sending them to people with other club deals.

 

Golf Digest will be happy to rate them all "gold".

 

Literally a tempest in a teapot for Mark to exploit and nobody else to really care.

In past reviews hes been scathing and frankly p*ss taking regarding TM rate of model release and their technology changes. In fact their whole marketing strategy. He sometimes acts like a spoiled kid. I think very few were surprised when he was not invited to their product launch.

[Holy Moses]

If the part about TaylorMade discussing sponsoring, but then deciding to not send him clubs for review anymore because he signed with someone else is true, it seems pretty hypocritical: "Signing with us is fine, signing with somebody else is unacceptable."

 

He'll get plenty of mileage out of the whole TM thing, and really, who cares if TM sends him anything, they have no obligation to do so whatsoever, especially if he is a Titleist guy now. People act like there is some "moral" obligation because he happens to review clubs. No bid deal. They can market how they please. Doubt they send prototypes of all their new clubs to Jordan Spieth or waste money and time sending them to people with other club deals.

 

Golf Digest will be happy to rate them all "gold".

 

Literally a tempest in a teapot for Mark to exploit and nobody else to really care.

 

Probably correct, but I would imagine that TM is just hedging their bets in case Crossfield ever gives them a bad review. TM can say, “Well there were some issues before the test and that's why we stopped working with Mark and giving him clubs. His reviews are flawed.” Callaway stopped working with MGS, but at least MGS was critical of Callaway before they stopped giving them clubs.