What Would a 10 Handicapper Shoot at TPC Sawgrass?

[golfer07840]

In case anyone cares (for some reason, I do)

 

Webb Simpson played to a +6.1 this week.

 

Had a +9.7 differential on Friday. Just crazy good.

 

Awesome post! Apologies for not knowing the answer but does ESC allow his double on 18 yesterday?

 

Yes. 9's and below stop at Double Bogey. Regardless of Par.

 

10-19 stop at 7

 

Per the USGA: http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=9

[deadsolid...shank]

Big galleries on Saturday morning. Maybe they help keep some of Mr 10's wayward shots in play.

[Guia]

From the back tee a 9 would be lucky to shoot 100. I played there when the course was open for about 1 year, I then played to a strong 4 and shot 92.

[J_Birdie]

I would say depends.

 

I'm a 5 who can hit a 2i off the tee 260 so I think I could plod my way around and break 90 fairly easily. I think a long hitting 10 stands a shot at breaking 100.

[lchang]

I would say depends.

 

I'm a 5 who can hit a 2i off the tee 260 so I think I could plod my way around and break 90 fairly easily. I think a long hitting 10 stands a shot at breaking 100.

 

I'm a 10. (Ok, an 11 as of recently.) And I just don't see how the first sentence has anything to do with the second. If you're that long-hitting a 10, you are probably an awful putter/chipper or are just wild. Both are recipes for double-digit hole scores on that course.

[FriedEgg]

It would take a couple of rounds for a 10 to play to their handicap here

[BNGL]

The original question was "a 10-handicapper is sent off the tournament tees — 7,189 yards — on Saturday morning. What does he shoot?"

 

What you shot with your buddies from 6,500 yards is not an equal comparison. But let's hear more about those scores. :read:

 

From having been inside the ropes Saturday the answer is no, no chance a 10 breaks 100. Just my opinion, but I don't see it happening. Sawgrass is such a demanding test anyways, demanding precision, accuracy, quality distance control, trajectory control, spin control, and phenomenal touch on/around the greens. Not to mention people watching and judging/heckling. The average 10s I know wouldn't be able to bring the club back on 17, I wasn't playing and I got goosebumps standing on the tee.

[JonnyKrasnodar]

There are "suburban legends" of scratch golfers who played at Oakmont and shot 130.

 

Not buying this crap either. We're definitely talking vanity handicap here. I'm a 9 and I'm breaking 130 at Oakmont. By a lot. Geez, where do people get this s*** that these courses are f...ing hard?

 

All part of the hype and "mystique" to be honest. It's the number one reason why when you get to these course it's an absolute disappointment.

 

Also one of the reasons every pro golfer asked suggested it wouldn't be possible because if a ten can do it, what makes the pros so very special?

 

False economy. Generates discussion. Generates hype for the so called great courses but unless you're absolutely uncontrollable wild off the tee and don't play to your yardages the biggest challenge is the fact they're all stupidly long which gets pretty boring.

 

 

[golfer07840]

It would take a couple of rounds for a 10 to play to their handicap here

 

This is a good point. I'd gather that course knowledge would play a big role in this. Where to put the ball, where NOT to put the ball, etc.

[farmer]

The "Scratch at ANGC" thread under estimated the ability of a true scratch player. This thread wildly over estimates the ability of a club 10 hdcp. He averages about 85, doesn't hit it very far or is really wild, and never faces green complexes like those at Sawgrass. "All he has to do is miss it in the right place.". That is beyond the skill set of a 10. I can easily see a 10 shooting 100.

[ctmason_98]

Can we really assume a club 10hcp could break 100 anywhere else? At least my interpretation of a “club 10hcp” is someone who rarely, if ever, plays other courses.

 

Not sure why this isn’t discussed more. Probably because it’s rare. But I have played with 12-20 hcp players who were not members of a club and played Saturday one day tournaments and social rounds all over.

 

Assuming they are legitimate with reporting scores, I would propose they are a far better golfer than similar hcp players playing 90% of their rounds at one course.

[MountainGoat]

One thing about TPC Sawgrass is that this is a course that's trying to trick you and punish you severely if you miss. If you don't hit a reasonable tee shot, you've often got nowhere to go. You can't just safely bogey your way around. If he's putting out and counting every stroke, the average 10 handicap is going to have at least a hole a side where he runs up a big number. Unlikely he breaks 100.

[bscinstnct]

In pursuit of cold, hard data, a few years back we spent a typical Saturday at the 17th hole to monitor every swing, shank and kerplunk with the same laser-guided technology employed by the stat heads on the PGA Tour. The result? It wasn't pretty.

48.53% TEE SHOTS IN WATER

 

 

DUNK CONTEST: A CLOSER LOOK AT THE STATS

 

112 — Yardage from the middle tees

15.5 — Average handicap

2 — Number of topped tee shots that didn't reach the water

4 — Longest run of consecutive pars

6 — Longest run of consecutive tee shots that found the water

10 — Longest run of consecutive bogeys or worse

33 — Handicap of one of the only two players who made birdie

1 — Number of golfers who stiffed it to 3 feet–and missed the putt

 

http://www.golf.com/...one-word-reload

[Titleist 670]

Didn't the pros scores range from 63 into the 80's at TPC?

 

So how the heck should we know what a 10 handicap will shoot?

 

Thankfully, I have the answer, and the answer is 154.

[Stall]

The biggest problem that I had when I played it wasn't the water. It was the dense tree's off the fairways. If you go in those, it was a pitch out to the fairway, there were really no angles and room to pull out hero shots.

[Your-away!]

I wish some golfers would play more tournaments, the difference between a friendly round with friends from the middle tee's to tournament golf from the back tee's (even on the same course) is not even remotely the same.

 

If its a 10 (and he got that 10 through friendly games only) he would have to have the round of his life to get close to 100 in a tournament from the back tee's at sawgrass, a 10 could easily get 30 on the last 3 holes on a bad day

[Yuck]

The group of 6-12 handicappers i played with there were not tournament hardened, or special. there were some high scores, but several rounds were in the 80-85 range. The course is not long, even from the back tees. The key is some 10 handicaps keep in in play & some are long and wild. My guess is given 2 rounds, a group of 100 ten handicappers, 20 or so would break 90. Many others would be triple digits without ESC.

[golfandfishing]

The group of 6-12 handicappers i played with there were not tournament hardened, or special. there were some high scores, but several rounds were in the 80-85 range. The course is not long, even from the back tees. The key is some 10 handicaps keep in in play & some are long and wild. My guess is given 2 rounds, a group of 100 ten handicappers, 20 or so would break 90. Many others would be triple digits without ESC.

 

There is an enormous difference between playing the tournament tees and playing in the tournament, the question was what does a 10 shoot on Saturday of the TPC? On a good day with his buddies a 10 puts up 88ish from the tips at Sawgrass. Saturday of the tournament in front of millions with no gimmes, no “I’ll just drop one here”, no picking up when s*** goes sideways. A 10 likely doesn’t finish, but hey, if he can just poke it out there 300 in the fairway 14 times like someone suggested earlier, ya never know.

[nsxguy]

The original question was "a 10-handicapper is sent off the tournament tees — 7,189 yards — on Saturday morning. What does he shoot?"

 

What you shot with your buddies from 6,500 yards is not an equal comparison. But let's hear more about those scores. :read:

 

Really ? The original post says, and this is a straightquote

 

Saw this on Golfweek.com

 

https://golfweek.com...-a-train-wreck/

 

I think the pros saying 120-150 are absolutely full of s***. I'm a 9 and I'm saying I'm breaking a 100 no ands, ifs, or buts about it. Even if I have had 3 margaritas tonight.

 

But that's OK, "everybody" else is adding spin so why shouldn't you ?

 

You'd think the OP's, setting us up for all the fighting, don't post all the parameters. But then what "fun" would that be ? LMAO

 

Just like Augusta,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

From the tips or from the tees I'm used to ?

Stimpmeter 13 ? Or 9 ?

Tournament conditions or member's conditions ?

Do I get a caddy ?

Is there a tournament crowd ?

Wind ?

Rain ?

Shorts or long pants ? :lol:

 

And so it goes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :rofl:

 

And we fall for it every time,,,,,,,,,,

 

But sure, let's' hear more about what the original question was. (cool)

[straightshot7]

The original question was "a 10-handicapper is sent off the tournament tees — 7,189 yards — on Saturday morning. What does he shoot?"

 

What you shot with your buddies from 6,500 yards is not an equal comparison. But let's hear more about those scores. :read:

 

Really ? The original post says, and this is a straightquote

 

Saw this on Golfweek.com

 

https://golfweek.com...-a-train-wreck/

 

I think the pros saying 120-150 are absolutely full of s***. I'm a 9 and I'm saying I'm breaking a 100 no ands, ifs, or buts about it. Even if I have had 3 margaritas tonight.

 

But that's OK, "everybody" else is adding spin so why shouldn't you ?

 

You'd think the OP's, setting us up for all the fighting, don't post all the parameters. But then what "fun" would that be ? LMAO

 

Just like Augusta,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

From the tips or from the tees I'm used to ?

Stimpmeter 13 ? Or 9 ?

Tournament conditions or member's conditions ?

Do I get a caddy ?

Is there a tournament crowd ?

Wind ?

Rain ?

Shorts or long pants ? :lol:

 

And so it goes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :rofl:

 

And we fall for it every time,,,,,,,,,,

 

But sure, let's' hear more about what the original question was. (cool)

 

The OP posted the article and did not include a question/parameter of his own. He only gave his opinion/answer to the question.

 

I assume he was obviously therefore pointing to the question in the article:

 

"The course may be playing relatively easy for the best, but how about for the rest?

Not so fast, say the pros.

I presented a scenario to former PGA Championship winner Rich Beem: a 10-handicapper is sent off the tournament tees — 7,189 yards — on Saturday morning. What does he shoot?"

Otherwise what question is he responding to, if not the one in the article?

[nsxguy]

The original question was "a 10-handicapper is sent off the tournament tees — 7,189 yards — on Saturday morning. What does he shoot?"

 

What you shot with your buddies from 6,500 yards is not an equal comparison. But let's hear more about those scores. :read:

 

Really ? The original post says, and this is a straightquote

 

Saw this on Golfweek.com

 

https://golfweek.com...-a-train-wreck/

 

I think the pros saying 120-150 are absolutely full of s***. I'm a 9 and I'm saying I'm breaking a 100 no ands, ifs, or buts about it. Even if I have had 3 margaritas tonight.

 

But that's OK, "everybody" else is adding spin so why shouldn't you ?

 

You'd think the OP's, setting us up for all the fighting, don't post all the parameters. But then what "fun" would that be ? LMAO

 

Just like Augusta,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

From the tips or from the tees I'm used to ?

Stimpmeter 13 ? Or 9 ?

Tournament conditions or member's conditions ?

Do I get a caddy ?

Is there a tournament crowd ?

Wind ?

Rain ?

Shorts or long pants ? :lol:

 

And so it goes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :rofl:

 

And we fall for it every time,,,,,,,,,,

 

But sure, let's' hear more about what the original question was. (cool)

 

The OP posted the article and did not include a question/parameter of his own. He only gave his opinion/answer to the question.

 

I assume he was obviously therefore pointing to the question in the article:

 

"The course may be playing relatively easy for the best, but how about for the rest?

Not so fast, say the pros.

I presented a scenario to former PGA Championship winner Rich Beem: a 10-handicapper is sent off the tournament tees — 7,189 yards — on Saturday morning. What does he shoot?"

Otherwise what question is he responding to, if not the one in the article?

 

Do you suppose that everyone's going to read something linked when the question the OP is asking is right here ?

 

The OP isn't "responding" to anyone.

 

The OP is the one who posed the question - it's right there in the title.

[straightshot7]

The original question was "a 10-handicapper is sent off the tournament tees — 7,189 yards — on Saturday morning. What does he shoot?"

 

What you shot with your buddies from 6,500 yards is not an equal comparison. But let's hear more about those scores. :read:

 

Really ? The original post says, and this is a straightquote

 

Saw this on Golfweek.com

 

https://golfweek.com...-a-train-wreck/

 

I think the pros saying 120-150 are absolutely full of s***. I'm a 9 and I'm saying I'm breaking a 100 no ands, ifs, or buts about it. Even if I have had 3 margaritas tonight.

 

But that's OK, "everybody" else is adding spin so why shouldn't you ?

 

You'd think the OP's, setting us up for all the fighting, don't post all the parameters. But then what "fun" would that be ? LMAO

 

Just like Augusta,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

From the tips or from the tees I'm used to ?

Stimpmeter 13 ? Or 9 ?

Tournament conditions or member's conditions ?

Do I get a caddy ?

Is there a tournament crowd ?

Wind ?

Rain ?

Shorts or long pants ? :lol:

 

And so it goes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :rofl:

 

And we fall for it every time,,,,,,,,,,

 

But sure, let's' hear more about what the original question was. (cool)

 

The OP posted the article and did not include a question/parameter of his own. He only gave his opinion/answer to the question.

 

I assume he was obviously therefore pointing to the question in the article:

 

"The course may be playing relatively easy for the best, but how about for the rest?

Not so fast, say the pros.

I presented a scenario to former PGA Championship winner Rich Beem: a 10-handicapper is sent off the tournament tees — 7,189 yards — on Saturday morning. What does he shoot?"

Otherwise what question is he responding to, if not the one in the article?

 

Do you suppose that everyone's going to read something linked when the question the OP is asking is right here ?

 

The OP isn't "responding" to anyone.

 

The OP is the one who posed the question - it's right there in the title.

 

That title is more of an introduction, and the article provides details and the actual parameters. Otherwise why did he post it?

 

Of course some people aren't going to take the time to read the short article, but that doesn't change the real question.

 

Things like course length are absolutely integral to the question.

[nsxguy]

 

Really ? The original post says, and this is a straightquote

 

Saw this on Golfweek.com

 

https://golfweek.com...-a-train-wreck/

 

I think the pros saying 120-150 are absolutely full of s***. I'm a 9 and I'm saying I'm breaking a 100 no ands, ifs, or buts about it. Even if I have had 3 margaritas tonight.

 

But that's OK, "everybody" else is adding spin so why shouldn't you ?

 

You'd think the OP's, setting us up for all the fighting, don't post all the parameters. But then what "fun" would that be ? LMAO

 

Just like Augusta,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

From the tips or from the tees I'm used to ?

Stimpmeter 13 ? Or 9 ?

Tournament conditions or member's conditions ?

Do I get a caddy ?

Is there a tournament crowd ?

Wind ?

Rain ?

Shorts or long pants ? :lol:

 

And so it goes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :rofl:

 

And we fall for it every time,,,,,,,,,,

 

But sure, let's' hear more about what the original question was. (cool)

 

The OP posted the article and did not include a question/parameter of his own. He only gave his opinion/answer to the question.

 

I assume he was obviously therefore pointing to the question in the article:

 

"The course may be playing relatively easy for the best, but how about for the rest?

Not so fast, say the pros.

I presented a scenario to former PGA Championship winner Rich Beem: a 10-handicapper is sent off the tournament tees — 7,189 yards — on Saturday morning. What does he shoot?"

Otherwise what question is he responding to, if not the one in the article?

 

Do you suppose that everyone's going to read something linked when the question the OP is asking is right here ?

 

The OP isn't "responding" to anyone.

 

The OP is the one who posed the question - it's right there in the title.

 

That title is more of an introduction, and the article provides details and the actual parameters. Otherwise why did he post it?

 

Of course some people aren't going to take the time to read the short article, but that doesn't change the real question.

 

Things like course length are absolutely integral to the question.

 

OK, fine. The question is in the article and not the original poster's post.

 

Got it. Thanks. :good:

[straightshot7]

OK, fine. The question is in the article and not the original poster's post.

 

Got it. Thanks. :good:

 

No, we should just ignore the article he posted and go off "What Would a 10 Handicapper Shoot at TPC Sawgrass?" alone. We shouldn't consider things like yardage, course conditions or that it may be referring to the tournament tees since it was posted during the tournament week.

 

I've gotten these combative posts from you before, so I'll do us both a favor and put you on my ignore list. You can do the same so you won't have to see my posts anymore. All the best.

[nsxguy]

OK, fine. The question is in the article and not the original poster's post.

 

Got it. Thanks. :good:

 

No, we should just ignore the article he posted and go off "What Would a 10 Handicapper Shoot at TPC Sawgrass?" alone. We shouldn't consider things like yardage, course conditions or that it may be referring to the tournament tees since it was posted during the tournament week.

 

I've gotten these combative posts from you before, so I'll do us both a favor and put you on my ignore list. You can do the same so you won't have to see my posts anymore. All the best.

 

Fine, my posts are combative and yours are,,,,,,,,, explanatory. No sweat. Understood. Nobody likes to be wrong, even me.

 

But no thanks, ignore me if you like but I don't ignore anybody. I'm not opposed to discussing things with anybody.

[golfer07840]

Can we really assume a club 10hcp could break 100 anywhere else? At least my interpretation of a "club 10hcp" is someone who rarely, if ever, plays other courses.

 

Not sure why this isn't discussed more. Probably because it's rare. But I have played with 12-20 hcp players who were not members of a club and played Saturday one day tournaments and social rounds all over.

 

Assuming they are legitimate with reporting scores, I would propose they are a far better golfer than similar hcp players playing 90% of their rounds at one course.

 

I am guessing this is why course handicap is important.

[golfer07840]

The biggest problem that I had when I played it wasn't the water. It was the dense tree's off the fairways. If you go in those, it was a pitch out to the fairway, there were really no angles and room to pull out hero shots.

 

Unless you're Phil and can hit the ball "through a car window"

[Shilgy]

In case anyone cares (for some reason, I do)

 

Webb Simpson played to a +6.1 this week.

 

Had a +9.7 differential on Friday. Just crazy good.

Which always is the amusing thing about plus handicaps. A ten handicap for example sees his differential go lower for shooting a score at a highly sloped course like Sawgrass. If a negative cap shoots 10 over the course rating of 76.4-let's call it an 86- his differential is "better" at 6.998 which would be 7.0 differential. Because je played a harder course his differential is lower.

 

On the plus side like Simpson a 63 is only +9.7 which shows the differential going higher(not as good) because of the high slope. **

 

** yes-I understand this is not because of the players handicap but is just showing the large difference because of slope between shooting well under the rating versus over.

 

Hmm-maybe a good course of action would be the score that is on the plus side not be affected by the slope at all? If a player shoots 63 at Sawgrass shouldn't his differential be +13.4? If not-why? At a "normally sloped course" with 113 slope he would be +13.4 for that round.

[Pepperturbo]

I think most of the responses were fair. 95-105 seems like a realistic guess for a 10 index. Its an extremely penal course.

 

We all agreed that a scratch would break 85 at Augusta. So 95-105 for a 10 at sawgrass seems right

 

Agree. I've played against and with many 9-11 handicaps. Their Sawgrass score would depend greatly on how difficult of a rating their home course has. Some friends are in that handi range and play relatively easy rating/slope courses, so taking their games to Sawgrass would produce some nosebleed scores. :lol: :beach:

 

Just read the article and copied this "I presented a scenario to former PGA Championship winner Rich Beem: a 10-handicapper is sent off the tournament tees — 7,189 yards — on Saturday morning. What does he shoot?"

 

I still believe the 10 handicap's home course rating would influence his scoring. Most 10 handicap's don't play 7k yards so from tournament tees I predict major league nosebleed.

[golfer07840]

In case anyone cares (for some reason, I do)

 

Webb Simpson played to a +6.1 this week.

 

Had a +9.7 differential on Friday. Just crazy good.

Which always is the amusing thing about plus handicaps. A ten handicap for example sees his differential go lower for shooting a score at a highly sloped course like Sawgrass. If a negative cap shoots 10 over the course rating of 76.4-let's call it an 86- his differential is "better" at 6.998 which would be 7.0 differential. Because je played a harder course his differential is lower.

 

On the plus side like Simpson a 63 is only +9.7 which shows the differential going higher(not as good) because of the high slope. **

 

** yes-I understand this is not because of the players handicap but is just showing the large difference because of slope between shooting well under the rating versus over.

 

Hmm-maybe a good course of action would be the score that is on the plus side not be affected by the slope at all? If a player shoots 63 at Sawgrass shouldn't his differential be +13.4? If not-why? At a "normally sloped course" with 113 slope he would be +13.4 for that round.

 

No, the higher the slope, the "harder" the course is. Let's assume the sloped course you're talking about is slopped at 113, and the course rating (which is what a scratch would shoot) is say 69.5. A 63 there would be a differential of +6.5