Interesting development - $3000 pay to caddy from a $1.3 million winners check? (MOD EDIT - NO POLIT

[golfandfishing]

Yes we all have it wrong...... The title of the thread should have been......

 

"Kuch is a great tipper - Gives Caddy a 66.7% Tip after winning @ Mayakoba"!!!!!!

 

I had it all wrong and will be shouting Kuch at the top of my lungs the next time I'm in the gallery watching him.

 

BTW wasn't hard to find Kuch's comments about the work El Tucan did....

 

https://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/2018/11/11/matt-kuchar-wins-local-caddie-cashes-in/

 

And from another article....

The solution? Use a local guy. The tournament director hooked Kuch up with David Ortiz, aka “El Toucan,” a local caddy legend in Mexico. Kuch ended up winning by a stroke with El Toucan on the bag, and the rest is history.

El Toucan works at the Mayakoba Camaleon Golf Course as the Caddy Director, and has carried bags in this event before. Last year he carried for Alex Cejka, whom he guided to a top-10 finish. After the win, Kuch gave praise to El Toucan for helping him navigate the course, although the two didn’t talk much. Kuch claimed that help him clear his head, play more relaxed, and that Ortiz even brought him a little luck as his “lucky charm.”

 

What’s he supposed to say when asked by the press about his local caddie? “Who? Oh, that’s his name? Ok, I just called him El Caddie all week. Yeah, so he carried my clubs, got in my way a few times and told me to “relax”. That was brilliant because, ya know, I’ve never done this before. If I come here on vacation I’ll ask for someone else, if I never see the guy again it will be too soon.”

 

How would that play? Of course Kuchar said complimentary things about his local caddie. It doesn’t mean the guy was worth $50k or more. He promised the guy a rate then nearly doubled it after the win (if the $5k number is even true).

[Matt J]

Hopefully the PGA stays at Mayakoba for awhile and Ortiz realizes he'll need to negotiate harder, get it in writing next year. Doesn't seem like Kuch is going to step up. Bag boys, bell hops, waiters, concierges, taxi drivers take notice. When the opportunity arises avoid Kuch for someone who might give you a decent tip.

[cxx]

I love how tipping (and all its associated trappings and etiquette and discussions thereof, etc.) is now something that people who hate SJW's are now including as an SJW "thing." Tipping!!!

 

People have been arguing about tipping and what is and is not acceptable for well over a hundred years.

 

Back in the day, my parents used to go out with a couple, and the husband of the couple was notoriously cheap and a poor tipper. He would do things like not order a meal but "share" with everybody. When it came time to "settle up," he was the "Emily had a salad and I just had a coke" guy, even though he ate half the nachos and asked for "a bite" of your Porterhouse (which turned into 4 bites).

 

I will never forget the discussions about the guy.

 

My point is not that these situations are perfectly analogous, my point is that turning this into a "social justice warrior" thing is a huge stretch. People on the right and left of the political spectrum have complained about (their own version of) "cheap" people for as long as people have been exchanging money.

 

Some people believe this is (hypothetically, of course) "cheap" behavior and others don't. That's it.

 

No need to get all "triggered" into SJW-labelling. (See how I turned that around?!?!) ;-)

 

People in this thread have been triggered for different reasons.

 

I'll admit that I was/am triggered by the fact that it seems many that have participated in this thread are fully willing to morally condemn Matt Kuchar based on - get this - zero evidence. If Matt was a cheap bastxxx in this case then he was a cheap bastxxx - but the point is that we do not know. We do not know.

 

As far as I'm concerned its wrong to pass moral judgement on Matt on this, a private matter. Again, as far as I'm concerned, its especially wrong in the absence of facts or evidence.

 

I'm willing to accept that I'm one of the triggered ones but there has been some "preening" going on here. Big time.

 

As far as I see it. (And read obee's post carefully)

 

Those accusing others of being sjws

 

Are the most whiny sjws I have seen in some time ; )

 

lol!!! the only rational people in the thread are the ones advocating we mind our own business and not run with the word of a self righteous clown and stay out of other peoples pockets.Pretty simple really. I dont care if anyone calls kuchar "cheap" but to suggest/state without a shred of evidence that he stiffed/scammed or wronged someone is a smear plain and simple. Ive had a bunch of fun in the thread because like with everything else in life theres alot of levity if you look hard enough for it

 

But thats the joke.

 

Kuch makes 5-10MM a year.

 

What does he care if anybody calls him cheap?

 

The joke is actually the people who feel they have to

 

SJW their keyboards and defend him ; )

 

Its like when we make fun of Rory or TW or Phil. They dont care. They sittin in a Ferrari in a 6 car garage lookin at they bank and laughin ; )

 

Unfortunately, it's really much more serious than that. Not that Kucher would be out on the street if he never saw another dollar from sponsors or golf ( a bit of wishful thinking, given he is a professional athlete) but it could happen. These days, people can be ripped down from their elevated perch by a mob of tweeters and posters in a tornado of self righteous tweets and posts. Rightly or wrongly we are in an era where unproven charges can ruin someone. Quick but not necessarily accurate justice.

 

Sorry to be a drag but its raining.

[Under2hours]

Yes we all have it wrong...... The title of the thread should have been......

 

"Kuch is a great tipper - Gives Caddy a 66.7% Tip after winning @ Mayakoba"!!!!!!

 

I had it all wrong and will be shouting Kuch at the top of my lungs the next time I'm in the gallery watching him.

 

BTW wasn't hard to find Kuch's comments about the work El Tucan did....

 

https://www.golf.com...ddie-cashes-in/

 

And from another article....

 

The solution? Use a local guy. The tournament director hooked Kuch up with David Ortiz, aka "El Toucan," a local caddy legend in Mexico. Kuch ended up winning by a stroke with El Toucan on the bag, and the rest is history.

El Toucan works at the Mayakoba Camaleon Golf Course as the Caddy Director, and has carried bags in this event before. Last year he carried for Alex Cejka, whom he guided to a top-10 finish. After the win, Kuch gave praise to El Toucan for helping him navigate the course, although the two didn't talk much. Kuch claimed that help him clear his head, play more relaxed, and that Ortiz even brought him a little luck as his "lucky charm."

 

What's he supposed to say when asked by the press about his local caddie? "Who? Oh, that's his name? Ok, I just called him El Caddie all week. Yeah, so he carried my clubs, got in my way a few times and told me to "relax". That was brilliant because, ya know, I've never done this before. If I come here on vacation I'll ask for someone else, if I never see the guy again it will be too soon."

 

How would that play? Of course Kuchar said complimentary things about his local caddie. It doesn't mean the guy was worth $50k or more. He promised the guy a rate then nearly doubled it after the win (if the $5k number is even true).

Excuses, Excuses, Excuses...... You think the $5,000 was fine (and it seems obvious it was not much more then that) and that the $2,000 tip was above and beyond. Others think he stiffed the caddy & has not stepped up (to date) when outed. And please don't say he probably has and it is between him & El Tucan. If this is a PR nightmare, and maybe it is not, they'd be in front of it and have made public amends. Kuch's commentsd to date have been "it was more then $3,000, less then $130,000", which is a garbage respence.

 

To those who compare it to a tip, Kuch did not pay for something, he won a tournament. We all are under the assumption that caddies play a significant roll when it comes to golfers & tournaments. If they did not, why wouldn't a golfer just use an electric bag cart & save the money?

 

https://sportproveme...h-carts-reviews

[King_Slender]

This is such a ridiculous thread and anyone worried about what Kuch paid his caddy should find other things to worry about. It's similar to classic experiment where, given the choice of getting one piece of candy and a sibling getting 2 pieces of candy or neither getting any candy, kids will always choose that neither gets candy. This caddy, unexpectedly, made more money in a week than he probably makes in a month.

 

Could Kuch have gone over the top and dropped $100K on him? Sure, it would have been a nice gesture. Would the caddy's life have been better off? Maybe, or he could have fallen into the classic trap lotto winners fall into where people start coming out of the woodwork begging for money, making his life miserable.

 

Should we berate these guys every time they leave a $100 tip for dinner rather than a $1,000 tip, because they can afford it?

[Under2hours]

This is such a ridiculous thread and anyone worried about what Kuch paid his caddy should find other things to worry about. It's similar to classic experiment where, given the choice of getting one piece of candy and a sibling getting 2 pieces of candy or neither getting any candy, kids will always choose that neither gets candy. This caddy, unexpectedly, made more money in a week than he probably makes in a month.

 

Could Kuch have gone over the top and dropped $100K on him? Sure, it would have been a nice gesture. Would the caddy's life have been better off? Maybe, or he could have fallen into the classic trap lotto winners fall into where people start coming out of the woodwork begging for money, making his life miserable.

 

Should we berate these guys every time they leave a $100 tip for dinner rather than a $1,000 tip, because they can afford it?

No what is interesting is that an athlete who earns $3,000,000-$5,000,000/yr (including endorsements, fees.......) paid the caddy what would have been a fair amount $3,000 for the week but knowing full well what the standard rate is and then winning the tournament, did not pay him anything close to that (and no one expected him to pay 10%), and when confronted had what is no more then a lame a** response.

 

Another interesting aside. Looking at his career he hadn't been to Hawaii since 2016, the the prior two years didn't play until February, so the Mayakoba win resulted in him playing both the TOC & Sony..... More reason to thank El Tucan.

 

Yep he stiffed him......

[golfandfishing]

“You think the $5,000 was fine (and it seems obvious it was not much more then that) and that the $2,000 tip was above and beyond. Others think he stiffed the caddy & has not stepped up (to date) when outed. ”

 

I don’t think any amount is “fine”, it’s not up to me to decide. What I do think is that the folks saying this Tucan fella guided Kuchar to a win are full of mierda. Kuchar likely won despite having a local caddie when all of the other players had their tour caddies with them. He may have won by 10 with his regular guy and hated looking at this guy’s face for the week but kept him around out of courtesy. Tossed him $5,000, told him to wipe down in the sink and take a cab home, he was done with him.

[sandtrap]

This thread is like a car accident. I can’t stop looking and rolling my eyes.

[Hawkeye77]

Yes we all have it wrong...... The title of the thread should have been......

 

"Kuch is a great tipper - Gives Caddy a 66.7% Tip after winning @ Mayakoba"!!!!!!

 

I had it all wrong and will be shouting Kuch at the top of my lungs the next time I'm in the gallery watching him.

 

BTW wasn't hard to find Kuch's comments about the work El Tucan did....

 

https://www.golf.com...ddie-cashes-in/

 

And from another article....

 

The solution? Use a local guy. The tournament director hooked Kuch up with David Ortiz, aka "El Toucan," a local caddy legend in Mexico. Kuch ended up winning by a stroke with El Toucan on the bag, and the rest is history.

El Toucan works at the Mayakoba Camaleon Golf Course as the Caddy Director, and has carried bags in this event before. Last year he carried for Alex Cejka, whom he guided to a top-10 finish. After the win, Kuch gave praise to El Toucan for helping him navigate the course, although the two didn't talk much. Kuch claimed that help him clear his head, play more relaxed, and that Ortiz even brought him a little luck as his "lucky charm."

 

What's he supposed to say when asked by the press about his local caddie? "Who? Oh, that's his name? Ok, I just called him El Caddie all week. Yeah, so he carried my clubs, got in my way a few times and told me to "relax". That was brilliant because, ya know, I've never done this before. If I come here on vacation I'll ask for someone else, if I never see the guy again it will be too soon."

 

How would that play? Of course Kuchar said complimentary things about his local caddie. It doesn't mean the guy was worth $50k or more. He promised the guy a rate then nearly doubled it after the win (if the $5k number is even true).

Excuses, Excuses, Excuses...... You think the $5,000 was fine (and it seems obvious it was not much more then that) and that the $2,000 tip was above and beyond. Others think he stiffed the caddy & has not stepped up (to date) when outed. And please don't say he probably has and it is between him & El Tucan. If this is a PR nightmare, and maybe it is not, they'd be in front of it and have made public amends. Kuch's commentsd to date have been "it was more then $3,000, less then $130,000", which is a garbage respence.

 

To those who compare it to a tip, Kuch did not pay for something, he won a tournament. We all are under the assumption that caddies play a significant roll when it comes to golfers & tournaments. If they did not, why wouldn't a golfer just use an electric bag cart & save the money?

 

https://sportproveme...h-carts-reviews

 

Come on now you are going way overboard. PGA Tour players are required to use caddies, you know that.

 

And their contributions, IMO the last many years, have been overrated in general.

 

We are not "all" under the assumption that caddies play a "significant roll[sic]" whatever that means.

[Matt J]

I wish Social Media was more powerful. Just think if all of us "triggered Social Warriors" could really get the word out. Next time Kuch is standing in the rain trying to hail a taxi he'd regret his "alligator arms." Take a step back in time and perhaps he has to wear a scarlet dollar sign until he is adequately contrite.

[Joker91]

Any facts in here yet?

[duffer987]

Any facts in here yet?

Yes. Gillis is a 100% certified busy-body, look-at-me, Dbag.

That's really the only thing to be wholly established here.

[braincramp52]

Yes we all have it wrong...... The title of the thread should have been......

 

"Kuch is a great tipper - Gives Caddy a 66.7% Tip after winning @ Mayakoba"!!!!!!

 

I had it all wrong and will be shouting Kuch at the top of my lungs the next time I'm in the gallery watching him.

 

BTW wasn't hard to find Kuch's comments about the work El Tucan did....

 

https://www.golf.com...ddie-cashes-in/

 

And from another article....

 

The solution? Use a local guy. The tournament director hooked Kuch up with David Ortiz, aka "El Toucan," a local caddy legend in Mexico. Kuch ended up winning by a stroke with El Toucan on the bag, and the rest is history.

El Toucan works at the Mayakoba Camaleon Golf Course as the Caddy Director, and has carried bags in this event before. Last year he carried for Alex Cejka, whom he guided to a top-10 finish. After the win, Kuch gave praise to El Toucan for helping him navigate the course, although the two didn't talk much. Kuch claimed that help him clear his head, play more relaxed, and that Ortiz even brought him a little luck as his "lucky charm."

 

What's he supposed to say when asked by the press about his local caddie? "Who? Oh, that's his name? Ok, I just called him El Caddie all week. Yeah, so he carried my clubs, got in my way a few times and told me to "relax". That was brilliant because, ya know, I've never done this before. If I come here on vacation I'll ask for someone else, if I never see the guy again it will be too soon."

 

How would that play? Of course Kuchar said complimentary things about his local caddie. It doesn't mean the guy was worth $50k or more. He promised the guy a rate then nearly doubled it after the win (if the $5k number is even true).

Excuses, Excuses, Excuses...... You think the $5,000 was fine (and it seems obvious it was not much more then that) and that the $2,000 tip was above and beyond. Others think he stiffed the caddy & has not stepped up (to date) when outed. And please don't say he probably has and it is between him & El Tucan. If this is a PR nightmare, and maybe it is not, they'd be in front of it and have made public amends. Kuch's commentsd to date have been "it was more then $3,000, less then $130,000", which is a garbage respence.

 

To those who compare it to a tip, Kuch did not pay for something, he won a tournament. We all are under the assumption that caddies play a significant roll when it comes to golfers & tournaments. If they did not, why wouldn't a golfer just use an electric bag cart & save the money?

 

https://sportproveme...h-carts-reviews

 

Come on now you are going way overboard. PGA Tour players are required to use caddies, you know that.

 

And their contributions, IMO the last many years, have been overrated in general.

 

We are not "all" under the assumption that caddies play a "significant roll[sic]" whatever that means.

 

So true. Just when I think this thread might fade away somebody comes along and gives the can another kick. The guy isn't a TOUR caddy. He was a resort caddy. Damn good money for a few days carrying a bag. Just because a guy has the means to lavish excess money on someone doesn't mean he has to do it.

[cxx]

I wish Social Media was more powerful. Just think if all of us "triggered Social Warriors" could really get the word out. Next time Kuch is standing in the rain trying to hail a taxi he'd regret his "alligator arms." Take a step back in time and perhaps he has to wear a scarlet dollar sign until he is adequately contrite.

 

I'm sure even those SJW's will be sacrificed to the mob.

[ThinkingPlus]

I wish Social Media was more powerful. Just think if all of us "triggered Social Warriors" could really get the word out. Next time Kuch is standing in the rain trying to hail a taxi he'd regret his "alligator arms." Take a step back in time and perhaps he has to wear a scarlet dollar sign until he is adequately contrite.

 

I'm sure even those SJW's will be sacrificed to the mob.

Well those who wield the mob will likely die by the mob.

[deadsolid...shank]

Yes we all have it wrong...... The title of the thread should have been......

 

"Kuch is a great tipper - Gives Caddy a 66.7% Tip after winning @ Mayakoba"!!!!!!

 

I had it all wrong and will be shouting Kuch at the top of my lungs the next time I'm in the gallery watching him.

 

BTW wasn't hard to find Kuch's comments about the work El Tucan did....

 

https://www.golf.com...ddie-cashes-in/

 

And from another article....

 

The solution? Use a local guy. The tournament director hooked Kuch up with David Ortiz, aka "El Toucan," a local caddy legend in Mexico. Kuch ended up winning by a stroke with El Toucan on the bag, and the rest is history.

El Toucan works at the Mayakoba Camaleon Golf Course as the Caddy Director, and has carried bags in this event before. Last year he carried for Alex Cejka, whom he guided to a top-10 finish. After the win, Kuch gave praise to El Toucan for helping him navigate the course, although the two didn't talk much. Kuch claimed that help him clear his head, play more relaxed, and that Ortiz even brought him a little luck as his "lucky charm."

 

What's he supposed to say when asked by the press about his local caddie? "Who? Oh, that's his name? Ok, I just called him El Caddie all week. Yeah, so he carried my clubs, got in my way a few times and told me to "relax". That was brilliant because, ya know, I've never done this before. If I come here on vacation I'll ask for someone else, if I never see the guy again it will be too soon."

 

How would that play? Of course Kuchar said complimentary things about his local caddie. It doesn't mean the guy was worth $50k or more. He promised the guy a rate then nearly doubled it after the win (if the $5k number is even true).

Excuses, Excuses, Excuses...... You think the $5,000 was fine (and it seems obvious it was not much more then that) and that the $2,000 tip was above and beyond. Others think he stiffed the caddy & has not stepped up (to date) when outed. And please don't say he probably has and it is between him & El Tucan. If this is a PR nightmare, and maybe it is not, they'd be in front of it and have made public amends. Kuch's commentsd to date have been "it was more then $3,000, less then $130,000", which is a garbage respence.

 

To those who compare it to a tip, Kuch did not pay for something, he won a tournament. We all are under the assumption that caddies play a significant roll when it comes to golfers & tournaments. If they did not, why wouldn't a golfer just use an electric bag cart & save the money?

 

https://sportproveme...h-carts-reviews

 

You know what they say when you make an assumption........something you’ve done a lot of here.

 

Joker91 in post #1088 above summed it up nicely. “Any facts in here yet”? The answer.......NO.

[duffer987]

No what is interesting is that an athlete who earns $3,000,000-$5,000,000/yr (including endorsements, fees.......) paid the caddy what would have been a fair amount $3,000 for the week but knowing full well what the standard rate is and then winning the tournament, did not pay him anything close to that (and no one expected him to pay 10%), and when confronted had what is no more then a lame a** response.

 

Another interesting aside. Looking at his career he hadn't been to Hawaii since 2016, the the prior two years didn't play until February, so the Mayakoba win resulted in him playing both the TOC & Sony..... More reason to thank El Tucan.

 

Yep he stiffed him......

Give us a fecking break.

You've spent how many years on this forum now showing disdain and disregard for the rules and etiquette of the game and those who follow them, the people you are paired up with at golf courses, and the staff that works there.

You have absolutely no point of reference in your golfing character to make a remotely nuanced or measured comment on this subject.

 

So why don't you go back to burning the new 2019 rule book for warmth and drafting letters to your club's committee about how they can make things better for you. xoxo

[Holy Moses]

This is such a ridiculous thread and anyone worried about what Kuch paid his caddy should find other things to worry about. It's similar to classic experiment where, given the choice of getting one piece of candy and a sibling getting 2 pieces of candy or neither getting any candy, kids will always choose that neither gets candy. This caddy, unexpectedly, made more money in a week than he probably makes in a month.

 

Could Kuch have gone over the top and dropped $100K on him? Sure, it would have been a nice gesture. Would the caddy's life have been better off? Maybe, or he could have fallen into the classic trap lotto winners fall into where people start coming out of the woodwork begging for money, making his life miserable.

 

Should we berate these guys every time they leave a $100 tip for dinner rather than a $1,000 tip, because they can afford it?

 

Yeah, Kuch really did Ortiz a solid by not giving him a more fair tip. Probably the reason Kuchar stiffs everyone else he comes across on Tour too.

[cxx]

No what is interesting is that an athlete who earns $3,000,000-$5,000,000/yr (including endorsements, fees.......) paid the caddy what would have been a fair amount $3,000 for the week but knowing full well what the standard rate is and then winning the tournament, did not pay him anything close to that (and no one expected him to pay 10%), and when confronted had what is no more then a lame a** response.

 

Another interesting aside. Looking at his career he hadn't been to Hawaii since 2016, the the prior two years didn't play until February, so the Mayakoba win resulted in him playing both the TOC & Sony..... More reason to thank El Tucan.

 

Yep he stiffed him......

Give us a fecking break.

You've spent how many years on this forum now showing disdain and disregard for the rules and etiquette of the game and those who follow them, the people you are paired up with at golf courses, and the staff that works there.

You have absolutely no point of reference in your golfing character to make a remotely nuanced or measured comment on this subject.

 

So why don't you go back to burning the new 2019 rule book for warmth and drafting letters to your club's committee about how they can make things better for you. xoxo

 

Ouch.

[manku]

Celebrities and famous people get a lot of perks from their VIP status...there are downsides to it as well...such as having every move tracked by the public, particularly in this age of social media/internet.

 

Because so much of their income is tied to their image, they can't act like most of us in a lot of situations...this is one of them. I'm not a golf pro, nor could ever be one. I've always wondered why you would pay a caddy so much money...especially when we see that local caddies/girlfriends/relatives seem to do just fine for many players. However, had Kuchar given him a 50K bonus that was never in writing, I'm sure he would have made that back in spades in terms of off course money.

 

Unfortunately, it's too late for that now. Anything he does will just look like damage control. And many will forever think he's either cheap or a phony.

[ThinkingPlus]

"Celui qui manie la foule meurt par la foule." Robespierre's thought as the guillotine fell...

[cdnglf]

Allegedly...

 

ZJ gave Kuchar’s wife $2k for carrying his bag for 4 holes to finish a round (in a tournament where he ultimately missed the cut).

 

Kuchar thought the same $2k was the right way to show appreciation to a guy who caddied the entire tournament and helped him to his first win in 4 years“?

 

This can’t be true, can it? I mean, Kuchar can’t be _that_ lacking in self-awareness, can he?

 

 

 

 

[Holy Moses]

Allegedly...

 

ZJ gave Kuchar’s wife $2k for carrying his bag for 4 holes to finish a round (in a tournament where he ultimately missed the cut).

 

Kuchar thought the same $2k was the right way to show appreciation to a guy who caddied the entire tournament and helped him to his first win in 4 years“?

 

This can’t be true, can it? I mean, Kuchar can’t be _that_ lacking in self-awareness, can he?

 

He turned that $2k into a nice bonus for Tucan lol

[duffer987]

Allegedly...

 

ZJ gave Kuchar's wife $2k for carrying his bag for 4 holes to finish a round (in a tournament where he ultimately missed the cut).

 

Kuchar thought the same $2k was the right way to show appreciation to a guy who caddied the entire tournament and helped him to his first win in 4 years"?

 

This can't be true, can it? I mean, Kuchar can't be _that_ lacking in self-awareness, can he?

Did Zach really give Kuchar's wife $2k? LOL!

That's "worse" than giving the resort caddie whatever he gave him. Did Matt challenge Zach - Hey! You better pay my wife! That seems way more cheapskatey TBH. And that $2k...hmmm :)

 

Edit: Moses beat me to it.

[Under2hours]

This is a forum where people give opinions & share thoughts.

 

Pro golfers are public figures and if they care as to the $'s made off the course are very careful and cultivate it...... Then there's Patrick Reid :taunt: .

 

Kuch regardless has botched it with his cavalier response when confronted.

 

Anyone who doesn't see that has their head in the sand.

 

What shocks me is the # here shooting the messenger and defending Kuch.

[North Texas]

Any facts in here yet?

Yes. Gillis is a 100% certified busy-body, look-at-me, Dbag.

That's really the only thing to be wholly established here.

 

There certainly has been lots of speculation in this thread but this is really the only thing that has been verified in this whole episode.

[ebrasmus21]

Morning folks. How is everyone?

[North Texas]

This is a forum where people give opinions & share thoughts.

 

Pro golfers are public figures and if they care as to the $'s made off the course are very careful and cultivate it...... Then there's Patrick Reid :taunt: .

 

Kuch regardless has botched it with his cavalier response when confronted.

 

Anyone who doesn't see that has their head in the sand.

 

What shocks me is the # here shooting the messenger and defending Kuch.

 

What shocks me is why Tom Gillis thinks this is any of his business. I could care less about defending Kuch.

[duffer987]

Morning folks. How is everyone?

Kuch-tastic! It's a gorgeous but chilly morning here.

Got my first tip of the day out the way for breakfast coffee, kolache, and scone. I went with the round up to even dollar amount of a strict %. It was 78 cents on a $6.22 total, so it felt OK, but I am open to peer review and corrections, as I am in there 3 or 4 times a week.

[cxx]

"Celui qui manie la foule meurt par la foule." Robespierre's thought as the guillotine fell...

 

I was thinking more China in the 60's.