El Tucan Speaks..... (NO POLITICS)

[ChillyDipper]

I'm with Richard. Lead from the front.

 

Throw the guy 100 or even 50k, and he is happy, you're still happy. Everybody wins. Now Kuchar has done some harm to his image, and I would say that Tucan's has marginally improved, given that he is the underpaid caddy who guided Kuch to a win. I'd like to think that visitors to the resort will be asking for El Tucan by name, and increasing his tip to boot.

 

If the winner's cheque had been 50k less, I'm sure Kuchar wouldn't have cared, which is why it's hard to understand why he couldn't have done better than 5k.

 

With respect to the question being asked about "would you caddy for a guaranteed 5k, no more no less?" Of course most people would, and rightly it would be unjustifiable to ask for more thereafter. However, that is not the situation here and thus it is a moot point.

 

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

 

Just my 0.38.

[sheldonjhacker]

NICE GOING, HOWDY DOODY !!! If this is half-way true, you are a RIDICULOUS and PATHETIC HUMAN BEING !!! :russian_roulette:

 

[Hawkeye77]

So have the other and original emails Tucan and the Americans he says helped him write been released? It would be interesting to see the tone and actual demand and whether there were any suggestions the $50k ask (not 10%) was some compromise vs. some suggestion of further action. His outfit releases the one suggesting Kuch can keep the money was drafted clearly for the PR of it, and obviously with help.

 

Still think some people with no dog in this fight cost Tucan $15k and IMO he got sold a bill of goods by going along with turning it down.

 

Just musings. Would be nice to know a little more - even though it’s none of my damn business!

[Forged4ever]

I'm with Richard. Lead from the front.

 

Throw the guy 100 or even 50k, and he is happy, you're still happy. Everybody wins. Now Kuchar has done some harm to his image, and I would say that Tucan's has marginally improved, given that he is the underpaid caddy who guided Kuch to a win. I'd like to think that visitors to the resort will be asking for El Tucan by name, and increasing his tip to boot.

 

If the winner's cheque had been 50k less, I'm sure Kuchar wouldn't have cared, which is why it's hard to understand why he couldn't have done better than 5k.

 

With respect to the question being asked about "would you caddy for a guaranteed 5k, no more no less?" Of course most people would, and rightly it would be unjustifiable to ask for more thereafter. However, that is not the situation here and thus it is a moot point.

 

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

 

Just my 0.38.

Hell, I caddied for free in a Web.com event and my Bud took 3rd and he came up to me afterward and asked the name of my Mother’s breast cancer charity and he wrote em a $3,000 check in leu of paying me and that came out of left field, was not discussed and I was stunned and while that’s not $5,000 and my situation is nothin like this one, I guarantee ya that that $3000 meant more to my Bud than that $5,000 did to Kuchar, however my point is that Classy people think a certain way that needs no defending, rationalizing or excusing.

 

They just DO the right thing~

 

Some do, most don’t....

 

And for them we have threads like this

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends⛳️

RP

[TServos]

I wouldn’t have felt obligated to pay him the standard tour caddy percentage. But after winning, throw the guy $50K, be a good guy, help the caddy live a better life AND STILL come off thousands ahead because you didn’t use your regular caddy.

[MtlJeff]

I've read most of the previous posts and this is just my opinion.....but i think caddies are probably overpaid in general based on results like this, and in this case we are crying over a guy who made 5K for walking and carrying a bag for 4 days for a person he just met.

 

The median income in the United States in 2018 was 62K, so this caddy (whom i presume we will be having a telethon for soon) made more per hour than the median american, working for an employer he didn't even know and who hired him for the weekend.

 

If Kuchar had offered any local caddy the job for 5K regardless of outcome they all would have said yes and everyone knows it. I don't see this as anything more than the very 2019 hating-on-the-wealthy for not standing on top of buildings and throwing dollar bills down to the masses.

 

posting for a friend

This is in no way related to "hating on the wealthy," and I think ya know where I stand on that bull****!!

 

This is about what had been the traditional pay-out for the caddie of the winning Player.

 

Tradition~

 

Your thoughts on whether caddies are overpaid is irrelevant, as are any opinions that I may have.

 

What is relevant is that the winning caddie gets at least a 10% cut.

 

We can come up with myriad reasons on why El WhateverTF his name was didn't deserve 10%~

 

They're nothing but rationalizations & excuses cuz it is what it is and when you start breaking that, then you break away from what has been the norm and is right, at least in my eyes.

 

Oh, and that friend??

 

He's a bigger arsehole than me

 

To tall buildings and flyin Benjamins

RP

 

It's not like i don't understand your point or the point made by others. I try to see both sides of arguments and i respect them. I just don't agree with paying someone based on tradition. I just want someone to tell me "the job that this caddy did is worth X" and be confident in that. That's it, that's what i want.

 

We look at sports differently than we look at other jobs because i feel like we don't do this in other jobs. We want Kuchar to pay this guy more because of tradition or things that are generally done. I just want to understand here, why did this caddy truly deserve more than what he got? Why is his situation different than the thousands of Americans who work for companies that have record years (2018 was a terrific year for many) and don't get huge bonuses. The irony is many are probably more vocal on behalf of Mr Tucan than they are for themselves in their own offices

 

The world isn't perfect, i have no problem signing off on that. But it is what it is, and this caddy got treated no differently than i have in the past, or several millions others have. At the end of the day, if you want more money, you have to make it so people need to give it to you, not want to give it to you

I agree with some of what you're saying and if in fact caddies are overpaid, then this should be dealt with at the table, between either a Player and his caddie, since, like the Players, they are an independent agent, or if they organize and the Tour wants to mediate or have a say, then they should be at the table, BEFORE a single caddie carries another bag, not AFTER the tourney, when I'm sure the poor son of a b**** thought that he was in line for a normal tour victory check.

 

THAT is where it's settled, not on the back of some poor arse guy steppin in to earn his keep, AFTER he has worked for you!!

 

Ya notice that no one has done that before or since?

 

Nah, Kuchar being the stoneless sheep that he is took advantage of the situation UNLESS he told the guy prior to hiring him.

 

To say nothing and just drop $5,000 on him is stoneless, seedy and classless.

 

You do not drop something like that on a man AFTER he has worked for you when the norm is 10%

 

Regarding "we don't do this in other jobs," as a corporate consultant working with the senior most executives, CEOs & boards, I see it every day, lolol.

 

Take a look at the Forbes Executive Compensation issue and tell me we don't do it in other jobs, lolol.

 

He should have told him prior to the tourney~

 

You don't mess with a man's income that clothes his family and puts a roof over their heads.

 

I sign 28 paychecks every two weeks, and when I started I went without to make my payroll(in full disclosure it was a hell of a lot smaller, lol), because a man's earnings, while may not be everything, they are damn close, and you do not arbitrarily decide to cut someone's pay. You pay them what is agreed upin or what has been the norm unless discussed prior to them performing the work.

 

At least a Gentleman & Man does not~

 

He is neither...

 

He's a male

 

Stay well,

RP

 

From what i know, he was offered 3K plus an undisclosed bonus based on results. This is a fairly unusual contract , oral or written as it leaves a lot of room for interpretation. I completely understand people saying giving an extra 2K is "cheap"

 

I also agree with you that messing with a guy's living is a bad move, and i don't support that at all. I hate dishonesty as much as the next guy and legitimately screwing someone in a deal isn't right

 

But I just can't make the leap here, this caddy probably made more this weekend than any other weekend he'll work this year, and based on Kuchar's 3K initial offer, i don't see the reason to extrapolate that to think he'd get a 50K bonus if Kuchar won. It seems Kuchar made it somewhat clear what the pay scale would be like. I just can't get behind the "he's a victim" thinking.

 

With all respect of course. I also wouldn't fault someone for giving him more money, and would applaud them for doing so. I have done generous things for my employees that i did not need to do. But i just don't want to go at Kuchar here for the circumstances that are known

[sheldonjhacker]

Obviously, it is now clear that Matt "Howdy Doody" Kuchar has a serious personality disorder ! :russian_roulette:

 

THANKS...!!!!!!!!!!!

[sandtrap]

More of this, good grief.

You all go spend YOUR money your way and let others do the same.

[jmvargas]

this is sure to harm Matt Kuchar's reputation in the future..

 

he better make sure he has a regular caddy ALL the time from now on because no one will ever fill-in as a caddie for him if ever he needs one in the future without a written guarantee on the weekly minimum PLUS a % bonus of the winnings depending on the position..

 

I cannot imagine what he was thinking paying his caddie only $5K when he won almost $1.3M....unless his wife made him do it!!

[Steele47]

More of this, good grief.

You all go spend YOUR money your way and let others do the same.

 

 

Won't be buying any Skechers.

[bscinstnct]

Obviously, it is now clear that Matt "Howdy Doody" Kuchar has a serious personality disorder ! :russian_roulette:

 

THANKS...!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Holy crap, its him!

[Hawkeye77]

Hate to bring this up, but Howdy Doody didn't really do any of the actual work. ;-)

[sheldonjhacker]

More of this, good grief.

You all go spend YOUR money your way and let others do the same.

"Always do the RIGHT THING". C'mon, Howdy-Doody...we ALL thought you were BETTER THAN THAT !!! :russian_roulette: :russian_roulette: :russian_roulette:

[dhartmann34]

 

 

this is sure to harm Matt Kuchar's reputation in the future..

 

he better make sure he has a regular caddy ALL the time from now on because no one will ever fill-in as a caddie for him if ever he needs one in the future without a written guarantee on the weekly minimum PLUS a % bonus of the winnings depending on the position..

 

I cannot imagine what he was thinking paying his caddie only $5K when he won almost $1.3M....unless his wife made him do it!!

 

None of us know exactly what the deal was. None of us know how helpful the caddy actually was. I've read the guy doesn't know English all that well. How do we know he wasn't just carrying the bag for the week and cleaning the sticks?

 

I've always seen Kuchar as a stand-up guy. He's pleasant. He doesn't have an attitude like Bubba, Rahm or some other guys out there. He's always smiling. He's a great guy out on tour from my point of view and I think he'll continue with that persona. And I'll continue to root for him.

 

Could he have done things differently? Of course. And he'll probably be bullied with all this bad press and end up paying the $50k. But as I said, we weren't there. We don't know the deal. There is always two sides to the story.

 

And I guarantee you that he'd have a fill in caddie much faster than a tour player is going to pick up this guy and risk this type of nonsense when they have an agreement... And then one side "views it differently" and takes it out into the media like he did today.

 

[sheldonjhacker]

this is sure to harm Matt Kuchar's reputation in the future..

 

he better make sure he has a regular caddy ALL the time from now on because no one will ever fill-in as a caddie for him if ever he needs one in the future without a written guarantee on the weekly minimum PLUS a % bonus of the winnings depending on the position..

 

I cannot imagine what he was thinking paying his caddie only $5K when he won almost $1.3M....unless his wife made him do it!!

He'll get some hearty "Bronx Cheers" from the NY fans if he still has the sack to show up for the PGA in May at Bethpage Black. :black eye: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

[Bubb]

I am shocked there is a difference of opinion on this. The amount Kuch paid his caddy is disgustingly cheap. We all know cheap people or have them in our family. It's a sickness and causes the person to only consider how much they can keep or have. Cheap people also have astonishingly low self awareness regarding their behavior. It is very clear that Kuchar is one of these people and quite frankly this is a group of people I have no time or respect for. Kuchar is very very wealthy and just got wealthier and felt it completely normal to give the poor man who helped him win a less than 1% tip above the agreed upon fee. Again, amazing how so many on this board are quick to defend this behavior.

You’re incredulous that not everyone is equally offended that a local caddy got only $5k for carrying a bag for four days?

[Mitchell]

Kuchar is like a Monet painting, better observed from a distance so as to not ruin the image. In simpler terms, care for him about as much as Richard does kickers.?

[Hawkeye77]

this is sure to harm Matt Kuchar's reputation in the future..

 

he better make sure he has a regular caddy ALL the time from now on because no one will ever fill-in as a caddie for him if ever he needs one in the future without a written guarantee on the weekly minimum PLUS a % bonus of the winnings depending on the position..

 

I cannot imagine what he was thinking paying his caddie only $5K when he won almost $1.3M....unless his wife made him do it!!

He'll get some hearty "Bronx Cheers" from the NY fans if he still has the sack to show up for the PGA in May at Bethpage Black. :black eye: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

Now, now, they loved Phil when his image was generally more phony than real - not saying Kuch wouldn't prefer to have Sergio in a nearby group to take any possible pressure off, but the drunken and over the top goof balls I recall from previous Bethpage tourneys didn't seem to fit the typical SJW mold, at least as it is defined in the Bronx.

[sheldonjhacker]

I am shocked there is a difference of opinion on this. The amount Kuch paid his caddy is disgustingly cheap. We all know cheap people or have them in our family. It's a sickness and causes the person to only consider how much they can keep or have. Cheap people also have astonishingly low self awareness regarding their behavior. It is very clear that Kuchar is one of these people and quite frankly this is a group of people I have no time or respect for. Kuchar is very very wealthy and just got wealthier and felt it completely normal to give the poor man who helped him win a less than 1% tip above the agreed upon fee. Again, amazing how so many on this board are quick to defend this behavior.

THIS !!!! AMEN !!!

[bladehunter]

I've read most of the previous posts and this is just my opinion.....but i think caddies are probably overpaid in general based on results like this, and in this case we are crying over a guy who made 5K for walking and carrying a bag for 4 days for a person he just met.

 

The median income in the United States in 2018 was 62K, so this caddy (whom i presume we will be having a telethon for soon) made more per hour than the median american, working for an employer he didn't even know and who hired him for the weekend.

 

If Kuchar had offered any local caddy the job for 5K regardless of outcome they all would have said yes and everyone knows it. I don't see this as anything more than the very 2019 hating-on-the-wealthy for not standing on top of buildings and throwing dollar bills down to the masses.

 

posting for a friend

 

Jeff. You sure you're Canadian ???

 

 

( just pulling your chain ).

 

Kinda ironic i know, given that i pay ~ 60% income tax that goes to social programs

 

What can i say, i love cold and snow.

 

Jeebus. I was just joking. 60%. I just threw up a little.

[Hawkeye77]

I've read most of the previous posts and this is just my opinion.....but i think caddies are probably overpaid in general based on results like this, and in this case we are crying over a guy who made 5K for walking and carrying a bag for 4 days for a person he just met.

 

The median income in the United States in 2018 was 62K, so this caddy (whom i presume we will be having a telethon for soon) made more per hour than the median american, working for an employer he didn't even know and who hired him for the weekend.

 

If Kuchar had offered any local caddy the job for 5K regardless of outcome they all would have said yes and everyone knows it. I don't see this as anything more than the very 2019 hating-on-the-wealthy for not standing on top of buildings and throwing dollar bills down to the masses.

 

posting for a friend

 

Jeff. You sure you're Canadian ???

 

 

( just pulling your chain ).

 

Kinda ironic i know, given that i pay ~ 60% income tax that goes to social programs

 

What can i say, i love cold and snow.

 

Jeebus. I was just joking. 60%. I just threw up a little.

 

That's 6 times the norm for social justice! Holy cow - back in the day I'd have gladly paid more to be able to take home more than 4 walleyes and lower the tax burden up there.

[MtlJeff]

I've read most of the previous posts and this is just my opinion.....but i think caddies are probably overpaid in general based on results like this, and in this case we are crying over a guy who made 5K for walking and carrying a bag for 4 days for a person he just met.

 

The median income in the United States in 2018 was 62K, so this caddy (whom i presume we will be having a telethon for soon) made more per hour than the median american, working for an employer he didn't even know and who hired him for the weekend.

 

If Kuchar had offered any local caddy the job for 5K regardless of outcome they all would have said yes and everyone knows it. I don't see this as anything more than the very 2019 hating-on-the-wealthy for not standing on top of buildings and throwing dollar bills down to the masses.

 

posting for a friend

 

Jeff. You sure you're Canadian ???

 

 

( just pulling your chain ).

 

Kinda ironic i know, given that i pay ~ 60% income tax that goes to social programs

 

What can i say, i love cold and snow.

 

Jeebus. I was just joking. 60%. I just threw up a little.

 

That's 6 times the norm for social justice! Holy cow - back in the day I'd have gladly paid more to be able to take home more than 4 walleyes and lower the tax burden up there.

 

Dont worry about Jeff, if the peasants get their precious "health care" and I can still roll in a Chevy Equinox, life is good baaaaaby.

 

There are rap songs about rolling in Chevy's right?

[Titleist 670]

From what i know, he was offered 3K plus an undisclosed bonus based on results. This is a fairly unusual contract , oral or written as it leaves a lot of room for interpretation. I completely understand people saying giving an extra 2K is "cheap"

 

I also agree with you that messing with a guy's living is a bad move, and i don't support that at all. I hate dishonesty as much as the next guy and legitimately screwing someone in a deal isn't right

 

But I just can't make the leap here, this caddy probably made more this weekend than any other weekend he'll work this year, and based on Kuchar's 3K initial offer, i don't see the reason to extrapolate that to think he'd get a 50K bonus if Kuchar won. It seems Kuchar made it somewhat clear what the pay scale would be like. I just can't get behind the "he's a victim" thinking.

 

With all respect of course. I also wouldn't fault someone for giving him more money, and would applaud them for doing so. I have done generous things for my employees that i did not need to do. But i just don't want to go at Kuchar here for the circumstances that are known

 

So just to be clear, you would be perfectly okay with someone coming into a restaurant with a huge party, racking up a $100,000 tab, and leaving a tip of $200 because that's what a server would earn on a normal night in tips and they should be thankful?

 

Kuchar did about as little as possible for this guy. He's cheap. I don't think the caddie needs 10%, but at least get it to five figures for crying out loud. I don't think this caddie needs to make a big story of it, but I can't imagine having as much money as Kuchar, then winning well over a million, and giving a local caddie nearly as little as I could.

[MtlJeff]

From what i know, he was offered 3K plus an undisclosed bonus based on results. This is a fairly unusual contract , oral or written as it leaves a lot of room for interpretation. I completely understand people saying giving an extra 2K is "cheap"

 

I also agree with you that messing with a guy's living is a bad move, and i don't support that at all. I hate dishonesty as much as the next guy and legitimately screwing someone in a deal isn't right

 

But I just can't make the leap here, this caddy probably made more this weekend than any other weekend he'll work this year, and based on Kuchar's 3K initial offer, i don't see the reason to extrapolate that to think he'd get a 50K bonus if Kuchar won. It seems Kuchar made it somewhat clear what the pay scale would be like. I just can't get behind the "he's a victim" thinking.

 

With all respect of course. I also wouldn't fault someone for giving him more money, and would applaud them for doing so. I have done generous things for my employees that i did not need to do. But i just don't want to go at Kuchar here for the circumstances that are known

 

So just to be clear, you would be perfectly okay with someone coming into a restaurant with a huge party, racking up a $100,000 tab, and leaving a tip of $200 because that's what a server would earn on a normal night in tips and they should be thankful?

 

Kuchar did about as little as possible for this guy. He's cheap. I don't think the caddie needs 10%, but at least get it to five figures for crying out loud. I don't think this caddie needs to make a big story of it, but I can't imagine having as much money as Kuchar, then winning well over a million, and giving a local caddie nearly as little as I could.

 

Where did I write that? Are you also a member at RestaurantServerWRX and read my post there?

[Titleist 670]

From what i know, he was offered 3K plus an undisclosed bonus based on results. This is a fairly unusual contract , oral or written as it leaves a lot of room for interpretation. I completely understand people saying giving an extra 2K is "cheap"

 

I also agree with you that messing with a guy's living is a bad move, and i don't support that at all. I hate dishonesty as much as the next guy and legitimately screwing someone in a deal isn't right

 

But I just can't make the leap here, this caddy probably made more this weekend than any other weekend he'll work this year, and based on Kuchar's 3K initial offer, i don't see the reason to extrapolate that to think he'd get a 50K bonus if Kuchar won. It seems Kuchar made it somewhat clear what the pay scale would be like. I just can't get behind the "he's a victim" thinking.

 

With all respect of course. I also wouldn't fault someone for giving him more money, and would applaud them for doing so. I have done generous things for my employees that i did not need to do. But i just don't want to go at Kuchar here for the circumstances that are known

 

So just to be clear, you would be perfectly okay with someone coming into a restaurant with a huge party, racking up a $100,000 tab, and leaving a tip of $200 because that's what a server would earn on a normal night in tips and they should be thankful?

 

Kuchar did about as little as possible for this guy. He's cheap. I don't think the caddie needs 10%, but at least get it to five figures for crying out loud. I don't think this caddie needs to make a big story of it, but I can't imagine having as much money as Kuchar, then winning well over a million, and giving a local caddie nearly as little as I could.

 

Where did I write that? Are you also a member at RestaurantServerWRX and read my post there?

 

No, it's an analogy. You're saying Tucan doesn't deserve more because making that much is a good amount, even though Kuchar banked a ton of cash. What's the difference between that and coming into a restaurant, racking up a huge tab, and then leaving next to nothing as long as it's what a person normally makes?

[Hawkeye77]

 

Jeebus. I was just joking. 60%. I just threw up a little.

 

That's 6 times the norm for social justice! Holy cow - back in the day I'd have gladly paid more to be able to take home more than 4 walleyes and lower the tax burden up there.

 

Dont worry about Jeff, if the peasants get their precious "health care" and I can still roll in a Chevy Equinox, life is good baaaaaby.

 

There are rap songs about rolling in Chevy's right?

 

LOL, I honestly know nothing at all about rap - but Sammy Johns and especially Bob Seger knew their Chevys!!! I think after Westminster I'll see if the wife wants to work on our Night Moves - and then almost immediately pick up the book I started last night.

[Fade]

Dang, now Gillis needs to come up with $45k to get the caddie paid.

[MtlJeff]

From what i know, he was offered 3K plus an undisclosed bonus based on results. This is a fairly unusual contract , oral or written as it leaves a lot of room for interpretation. I completely understand people saying giving an extra 2K is "cheap"

 

I also agree with you that messing with a guy's living is a bad move, and i don't support that at all. I hate dishonesty as much as the next guy and legitimately screwing someone in a deal isn't right

 

But I just can't make the leap here, this caddy probably made more this weekend than any other weekend he'll work this year, and based on Kuchar's 3K initial offer, i don't see the reason to extrapolate that to think he'd get a 50K bonus if Kuchar won. It seems Kuchar made it somewhat clear what the pay scale would be like. I just can't get behind the "he's a victim" thinking.

 

With all respect of course. I also wouldn't fault someone for giving him more money, and would applaud them for doing so. I have done generous things for my employees that i did not need to do. But i just don't want to go at Kuchar here for the circumstances that are known

 

So just to be clear, you would be perfectly okay with someone coming into a restaurant with a huge party, racking up a $100,000 tab, and leaving a tip of $200 because that's what a server would earn on a normal night in tips and they should be thankful?

 

Kuchar did about as little as possible for this guy. He's cheap. I don't think the caddie needs 10%, but at least get it to five figures for crying out loud. I don't think this caddie needs to make a big story of it, but I can't imagine having as much money as Kuchar, then winning well over a million, and giving a local caddie nearly as little as I could.

 

Where did I write that? Are you also a member at RestaurantServerWRX and read my post there?

 

No, it's an analogy. You're saying Tucan doesn't deserve more because making that much is a good amount, even though Kuchar banked a ton of cash. What's the difference between that and coming into a restaurant, racking up a huge tab, and then leaving next to nothing as long as it's what a person normally makes?

 

The difference is that servers in restaurants are sometimes taxed differently based on expected tips, and I would tip them a large enough amount to make sure they are not coming out at a loss for serving my table.

 

Giving a 2% tip or whatever on a 100k bill would cost a restaurant money around here because they are taxed based on expected tips if I understand it correctly. I would not do that no

 

But that is not the same as what happened here. So that is what the difference is

[Steele47]

lmao.. Always comes back to restaurants and waiters.

[Chief Illiniwek]

This thread is a good example of a lot of the things wrong with our society on both sides...