El Tucan Speaks..... (NO POLITICS)

[BlackDiamondPar5]

ElTucan sounds like a self-entitled jerk. He and some others are pretty much clueless as to the additional duties of the tour caddie. Guy does a fraction of the job for a week and wants full pay... Total BS. I'm also going to bet the El Tucan pretty much cost himself future earnings with the pros.

 

I'll make this offer, If Kuch or any other pro want to pay me $5k to caddie for them for the week I'll gladly take the week off and sling their bag around.

eeeh he actually says he doesn't expect full pay he said 50 k which is way less then the full time caddie 10 percent. Did you even read the article before making your statements

 

I read the article--- did you not read this? Ortiz said that Kuchar said at the start of the tournament that he would be paid $3,000 for the week, plus an unspecified percentage of his winnings.

On that basis, in the euphoria of victory, Ortiz had hoped to make as much as $130,000. When Kuchar left Mexico, the caddie said, he was under the impression that he would still receive a bonus.

[toc]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Not much a follower of golf, are you? FYI--- Kuch just played the WM, a tournament where hecklers wouldn't hold back, and yet no heckling. In fact the fans just loved him as usual.

Indeed. Remember all those people coming down 18 at the Tour Championship last year calling Tiger a philandering, pill-popping, dbag! That was quite a scene...

... that never happened and never would.

 

Yea this story is a huge deal....on the internet.

[larciel]

This will probably follow Kuch for few years.

 

El Tucan will regret not accepting $15k as he probably will never get another pga loop job.

[Under2hours]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Not much a follower of golf, are you? FYI--- Kuch just played the WM, a tournament where hecklers wouldn't hold back, and yet no heckling. In fact the fans just loved him as usual.

Indeed. Remember all those people coming down 18 at the Tour Championship last year calling Tiger a philandering, pill-popping, dbag! That was quite a scene...

... that never happened and never would.

 

It didn't cost Tiger money (and his reputation)????? You gotta be kidding me.

 

https://www.thoughtco.com/tiger-woods-dropped-sponsors-1566402

 

Another brilliant observation......

[dpb5031]

When things like this happen I like to think, "what would I have done had I been in his (in this case Kuchar's) shoes (Skechers..lol ?)?

 

I don't think this is a hard one. I'll agree it's not about entitlement or even fairness (life sure ain't fair), but it can be about simply being a "good guy."

 

Unless I'm missing a big part of the story, Matt had the opportunity to be a good guy. Instead he made the opposite choice.

 

I likely would not have given Toucan the full 10% customary for a player's regular caddie who's been with him through both the highs and the lows, but I sure as well would have given him half that, and it would have made me feel good to do it.

 

I've been going to the Dominican every year for the past 20. We take caddies and the customary tip is now $20 per bag (they also get a piece of the greens fee). We give $25.

 

Anyway, a few years ago I won an invitational down there that netted me about $3500. Giving my caddie $350 of it felt as good or better than winning. It's not that hard to be nice and do the right thing...

 

[Steele47]

Kuchar is golf's Eddie Haskell.

[Seth Pistol]

dont know if this has been posted on here but here's an article outlining "Standard" caddie fees on the tour - https://www.forbes.c...7/#4331eaee10dd

 

note that full time caddies get approx $1500-$2500 regardless of where the player finishes to offset costs since full time caddies are responsible for travel, accomodations, healthcare, etc etc. as a local caddie, clearly el tucan didnt have the same costs as a regular caddie.

 

also note that el tucan would have made approx $1200 that week if he just had been working - https://www.golfchan...nyones-business

 

as these articles show, $3000 is a pretty hefty sum for a caddie, especially if that caddie is a local with no extra costs and the fee is guarenteed even if kuchar had missed the cut. i think its outrageous that he would think he would be paid out the standard 10% a touring caddie would make since a) he's not providing the same services (yes he is giving yardages and reads but he doesn;t know kuch's game inside and out and therefore can't give recommendations on hitting a 5 yard cut or 15 yard strong draw etc) and hes a local caddie that doesn't endure the extra costs that touring caddies deal with on a week to week basis. it's basically expecting $$$ during the good times when you didn't have to endure the bad times. doesn;t work that way.

 

that being said, i also believe a $2K bonus is a bit light. i think the $15K was a much more appropriate tip, albeit it was offered later. poor choice on him not to take the $15K. shaming kuch publicly is probably not going to result in more $$$ in his hand so he should have taken what he could get. $15K is still $15K.

 

all in all, everyone looks like an a-hole here. kuch's rep looks bad and this dude is definitely never getting a loop again on the tour.

[duffer987]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Not much a follower of golf, are you? FYI--- Kuch just played the WM, a tournament where hecklers wouldn't hold back, and yet no heckling. In fact the fans just loved him as usual.

Indeed. Remember all those people coming down 18 at the Tour Championship last year calling Tiger a philandering, pill-popping, dbag! That was quite a scene...

... that never happened and never would.

 

It didn't cost Tiger money (and his reputation)????? You gotta be kidding me.

 

https://www.thoughtc...ponsors-1566402

 

Another brilliant observation......

Please read the posts I was responding to.

I'll highlight and put it in really big font, so you don't have to strain your limited reading comprehension skills. Rest of your life is a long time.

[straightshot7]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Except that he won't (unless someone puts a WRX group together to do so). They proved that in Phoenix. The majority of people liked him before this, and this isn't going to change that.

 

50k??? You could have the caddy disappeared for less than that. And then this story goes away

 

Of course than people would be like "the hired assassin business is a tough job , Kuch really should've paid more"

 

Not even funny to joke about that, to be honest. And it wouldn't make the story go away.

[bscinstnct]

Love that Tucan told mooch and steiny to shove it, lol.

 

Tuc like,

 

"You may have 1.3MM, but

 

You still bald!"

 

; )

[sdandrea]

I have trouble accepting the fact that a man in El Tucan's financial state would turn down $15k. Hell, that's substantial money in MANY people's situations. This all smells funny.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Not much a follower of golf, are you? FYI--- Kuch just played the WM, a tournament where hecklers wouldn't hold back, and yet no heckling. In fact the fans just loved him as usual.

 

So you must have been right next to Kuch the entire time in order to know what was said the entire tournament? Are you his actual full time caddie?

 

And now the story is in mainstream media. But I guess we shouldn't expect that to make a difference.

 

I'm not saying he'll be brutally heckled everywhere he goes. My point was people won't forget this. And long term the negativity from it is a lot more costly than ~$50k. You don't think Kuch would like to go back in time and pay the guy more and avoid this story? He'd have to be insane not to.

 

And yeah I've only been following golf avidly and watching 10-20 tournaments a year for like 21 years. Why make a stupid comment like that? We all follow golf here.

 

Well I judged you by your sentence. Saying "he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them" is a little over the top dramatic. He was loved by the fans at WM and he played great. I doubt he loses any endorsements--- heck even as egregious as Tiger actions, he still had some sponsors stand by him. This doesn't even move the needle for negative publicity.

[straightshot7]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Not much a follower of golf, are you? FYI--- Kuch just played the WM, a tournament where hecklers wouldn't hold back, and yet no heckling. In fact the fans just loved him as usual.

Indeed. Remember all those people coming down 18 at the Tour Championship last year calling Tiger a philandering, pill-popping, dbag! That was quite a scene...

... that never happened and never would.

 

It didn't cost Tiger money (and his reputation)????? You gotta be kidding me.

 

https://www.thoughtc...ponsors-1566402

 

Another brilliant observation......

Please read the post I was responding to.

I'll highlight and put it in really big font, so you don't have to strain your limited reading comprehension skills. Rest of your life is a long time.

 

Look if you want to take that completely literally, then of course I can't prove he'll be verbally heckled at every tournament for the rest of his life.

 

But you don't think people will remember? You don't think there will be many people who think of Kuchar in a negative way for a long time over this? You don't think people still hold Tiger's actions against him?

 

My point was not so much about literal heckling as it is the fact that fans and sponsors won't forget and it will end up costing Kuchar a lot more than $50k. How the negativity toward him will manifest exactly is obviously a mystery at this point. He's already had a reputation significantly damaged on the Internet. That's not going to just fade away. There are many people who loathe bad tippers, let alone a terrible tipping moment like this.

 

Just look at anytime money comes up people mention how Tiger, MJ, etc. are known as being bad tippers. But even those guys didn't go to this magnitude of bad tipping. Not even close.

[deadsolid...shank]

I have trouble accepting the fact that a man in El Tucan's financial state would turn down $15k. Hell, that's substantial money in MANY people's situations. This all smells funny.

 

Agreed. Someone in the background of giving advice. At least it appears to me.

[deadsolid...shank]

 

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Not much a follower of golf, are you? FYI--- Kuch just played the WM, a tournament where hecklers wouldn't hold back, and yet no heckling. In fact the fans just loved him as usual.

Indeed. Remember all those people coming down 18 at the Tour Championship last year calling Tiger a philandering, pill-popping, dbag! That was quite a scene...

... that never happened and never would.

 

It didn't cost Tiger money (and his reputation)????? You gotta be kidding me.

 

https://www.thoughtc...ponsors-1566402

 

Another brilliant observation......

Please read the post I was responding to.

I'll highlight and put it in really big font, so you don't have to strain your limited reading comprehension skills. Rest of your life is a long time.

 

 

Look if you want to take that completely literally, then of course I can't prove he'll be verbally heckled at every tournament for the rest of his life.

 

But you don't think people will remember? You don't think there will be many people who think of Kuchar in a negative way for a long time over this? You don't think people still hold Tiger's actions against him?

 

My point was not so much about literal heckling as it is the fact that fans and sponsors won't forget and it will end up costing Kuchar a lot more than $50k. How the negativity toward him will manifest exactly is obviously a mystery at this point. He's already had a reputation significantly damaged on the Internet. That's not going to just fade away. There are many people who loathe bad tippers, let alone a terrible tipping moment like this.

 

Just look at anytime money comes up people mention how Tiger, MJ, etc. are known as being bad tippers. But even those guys didn't go to this magnitude of bad tipping. Not even close.

 

So many athletes do things so much worse than this and still get their endorsements. This is a story to so few people.

[whiteout73]

Kuchar should just lean in to the Bad Boy persona- Show up at Mayakoba this year, and carry his own bag. Then at the presser, make a big production out of giving his caddy a 500K bonus.

[straightshot7]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Not much a follower of golf, are you? FYI--- Kuch just played the WM, a tournament where hecklers wouldn't hold back, and yet no heckling. In fact the fans just loved him as usual.

 

So you must have been right next to Kuch the entire time in order to know what was said the entire tournament? Are you his actual full time caddie?

 

And now the story is in mainstream media. But I guess we shouldn't expect that to make a difference.

 

I'm not saying he'll be brutally heckled everywhere he goes. My point was people won't forget this. And long term the negativity from it is a lot more costly than ~$50k. You don't think Kuch would like to go back in time and pay the guy more and avoid this story? He'd have to be insane not to.

 

And yeah I've only been following golf avidly and watching 10-20 tournaments a year for like 21 years. Why make a stupid comment like that? We all follow golf here.

 

Well I judged you by your sentence. Saying "he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them" is a little over the top dramatic. He was loved by the fans at WM and he played great. I doubt he loses any endorsements--- heck even as egregious as Tiger actions, he still had some sponsors stand by him. This doesn't even move the needle for negative publicity.

 

Okay, I agree it may have been overly dramatic. But I do believe that people will remember this forever. The negative fallout has to already be worse than losing $50k-$100k. I'm sure Kuchar has probably been bothered by having his name dragged through the mud already. Now it just hit the Washington Post and ESPN.

 

I'm not saying that it will be a big deal going forward. But it will be there. And life is hard enough as it is without having a negative story like this attached to you for years to come, however small it may be. So I was simply saying that I think it would be smart to try to do damage control and make it go away as best as possible.

 

People can be brutal but they can also be forgiving. If a new story came out that Matt Kuchar apologized and gave the caddie more money, I think many people would forgive Kuchar and forget about it a lot more quickly.

[Hawkeye77]

I have trouble accepting the fact that a man in El Tucan's financial state would turn down $15k. Hell, that's substantial money in MANY people's situations. This all smells funny.

 

The people crafting his emails and responses gambled and lost, all at his expense. That seems to be a reasonable guess.

[DavePelz4]

Now I'm watching youtube tv ads for the metric system we were supposed to adopt 40 years ago.

 

Whoa...the US isn't on the metric system? No wonder I'm always 2-3 clubs short.

[Togatown22]

I'm not sure it's accurate to say he didn't get heckled at all during the WM:

 

Tron Carter

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@TronCarterNLU

 

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We have a developing situation in Scottsdale, where Matt Kuchar has taken an early lead. Meanwhile the folks in the bleachers on 16 have started a “pass the can for Tucàn” to raise money for his stiffed bagman. Should be interesting tomorrow and Saturday if he’s near the lead!

 

 

 

[deadsolid...shank]

I'm not sure it's accurate to say he didn't get heckled at all during the WM:

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have a developing situation in Scottsdale, where Matt Kuchar has taken an early lead. Meanwhile the folks in the bleachers on 16 have started a “pass the can for Tucàn” to raise money for his stiffed bagman.<br><br>Should be interesting tomorrow and Saturday if he’s near the lead! <a href="https://t.co/aajnQpEFAR">pic.twitter.com/aajnQpEFAR</a></p>— Tron Carter (@TronCarterNLU) <a href="

31, 2019</a></blockquote>

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

That sounds clever. But doesn’t really sound like personal heckling to me. Still a lot more Kuuuuuuuch out there.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Not much a follower of golf, are you? FYI--- Kuch just played the WM, a tournament where hecklers wouldn't hold back, and yet no heckling. In fact the fans just loved him as usual.

 

So you must have been right next to Kuch the entire time in order to know what was said the entire tournament? Are you his actual full time caddie?

 

And now the story is in mainstream media. But I guess we shouldn't expect that to make a difference.

 

I'm not saying he'll be brutally heckled everywhere he goes. My point was people won't forget this. And long term the negativity from it is a lot more costly than ~$50k. You don't think Kuch would like to go back in time and pay the guy more and avoid this story? He'd have to be insane not to.

 

And yeah I've only been following golf avidly and watching 10-20 tournaments a year for like 21 years. Why make a stupid comment like that? We all follow golf here.

 

Well I judged you by your sentence. Saying "he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them" is a little over the top dramatic. He was loved by the fans at WM and he played great. I doubt he loses any endorsements--- heck even as egregious as Tiger actions, he still had some sponsors stand by him. This doesn't even move the needle for negative publicity.

 

Okay, I agree it may have been overly dramatic. But I do believe that people will remember this forever. The negative fallout has to already be worse than losing $50k-$100k. I'm sure Kuchar has probably been bothered by having his name dragged through the mud already. Now it just hit the Washington Post and ESPN.

 

I'm not saying that it will be a big deal going forward. But it will be there. And life is hard enough as it is without having a negative story like this attached to you for years to come, however small it may be. So I was simply saying that I think it would be smart to try to do damage control and make it go away as best as possible.

 

People can be brutal but they can also be forgiving. If a new story came out that Matt Kuchar apologized and gave the caddie more money, I think many people would forgive Kuchar and forget about it a lot more quickly.

 

Gotcha... Yes I agree some will remember forever but I firmly believe it's impact is nil. This matter still only hits a tiny fraction of people and even fewer care, and the "who cares half-life" is probably a week or 2 given the rapid media cycle.

[MtlJeff]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Except that he won't (unless someone puts a WRX group together to do so). They proved that in Phoenix. The majority of people liked him before this, and this isn't going to change that.

 

50k??? You could have the caddy disappeared for less than that. And then this story goes away

 

Of course than people would be like "the hired assassin business is a tough job , Kuch really should've paid more"

 

Not even funny to joke about that, to be honest. And it wouldn't make the story go away.

 

Well I don't think Kuchar is realistically considering that!

[Dpavs]

ok, so we all buy a lotto ticket.

 

The worker beside us in the car (who we met 4 days ago) on the way to the shop says "better hook me up if you win". This guy has been a big help in the 4 days since you met him. He carried your tools for you, fetched what you needed and was a nice bloke.

 

You turn to him and say "ill give you 5K if I win bud"

 

You then win 1.5Mil...

 

How many of us now give him more and how many give him the 5K we agreed on?

 

Please show me where... anywhere that says they agreed upon $5K? By the only first hand account we have (the caddies) it was 3K plus a bonus dependent on the results at the end of the tournament. Nothing more, nothing less has been proven in any regards that I am aware of.

 

Which is another thing I don't understand... why are so many here trying to characterize the additional 2k paid over the 3k agreed upon as a tip in order to fallaciously come up with a trumped up tip percentage? A bonus is not the same as a tip in any regards. By all accounts that there are so far, the caddie reasonably expected that the higher Matt finished (and of course the higher his earnings) the higher the bonus would be. Imo, regardless of what happened thereafter, Kuchar plain and simply tried to pay off the caddie as cheaply as he could and so to me he looks cheap. Any effort for damage control on his part thereafter really can't change that for me.

[Hawkeye77]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Except that he won't (unless someone puts a WRX group together to do so). They proved that in Phoenix. The majority of people liked him before this, and this isn't going to change that.

 

50k??? You could have the caddy disappeared for less than that. And then this story goes away

 

Of course than people would be like "the hired assassin business is a tough job , Kuch really should've paid more"

 

Not even funny to joke about that, to be honest. And it wouldn't make the story go away.

 

Well I don't think Kuchar is realistically considering that!

 

Too expensive!

[bladehunter]

They just reported that Toucan was fired form someone else’s bag that week prior to taking Kuchars. Said verbal altercation between him and that pro , I’d love to hear from that pro.

[mikpga]

We hereby sentence Mr. Toucan to a year of looping with Rory Sabatini...

[bscinstnct]

Bottom line.

 

A lot of people think kooch is a piece of crap for giving a guy a 2k bonus on a 1.3MM payday. If the reporting is correct, of course.

 

Per Tucan, Kuch said he would give him 3k and a percentage of the winnings.

 

Right?

 

"A percentage"

 

One percent would have been 13,000

 

If Kooch gave him

 

.15%

 

Then, yes, thats right

 

Its about 1/6 of one percent.

[redfirebird08]

Bottom line.

 

A lot of people think kooch is a piece of crap for giving a guy a 2k bonus on a 1.3MM payday.

 

Per Tucan, Kuch said he would give him 3k and a percentage of the winnings.

 

Right?

 

"A percentage"

 

One percent would have been 13,000

 

Kooch gave him

 

.15%

 

Yes, thats right

 

About 1/6 of one percent.

 

Kooch would make El Tigre blush in a battle for Supreme Cheapskate.

[Bubb]

Something is wrong with this Tuscan dude.