El Tucan Speaks..... (NO POLITICS)

[Under2hours]

How on earth, can you possibly know that?

 

Because a tour caddie doesn't just show up and carry.

And a tour caddy hasn't worked at the course for years and understands and knows the nuances of the course........ Maybe he did no more than carry the bag (though Kuchar acknowledged the work he did), but again putting words in Kuchar's mouth as all who defend him have.....

 

A topic that has been skimmer over but not really exhausted (like the rest of the items) is the seemingly failure of Toucan and Kuchar to come to a % agreement on winnings. There would be nothing to discuss had that item been determined on Wednesday. I'm paraphrasing, but Toucan himself said he trusted a fair amount would be paid by Kuchar after the tourney was over.

 

Expensive lessoned learned by Toucan.

 

And that makes it right?????

[kcsf]

Yes people, I know a caddie’s tip is based on percentage of winnings. Although technically that’s really not a tip either, that’s a built in condition of most contracts.

 

A gratuity is “something given voluntarily or beyond obligation”. So not part of the contract. I was trying to be a little tongue in cheek with Obee with the exact phrasing. I apologize it didn’t come off how I intended it to.

 

I'm a bit confused on your position then as you've repeatedly said Kuchar is within his right to pay $5k total as that's a substantial amount of $$ for a local caddy, yet the % paid after a tournament is earnings "that’s a built in condition of most contracts"

 

So you're saying .15% is a reasonable amount to pay a local caddy when ~5% is the normalized standard pay for a local?

[kcsf]

How on earth, can you possibly know that?

 

Because a tour caddie doesn't just show up and carry.

And a tour caddy hasn't worked at the course for years and understands and knows the nuances of the course........ Maybe he did no more than carry the bag (though Kuchar acknowledged the work he did), but again putting words in Kuchar's mouth as all who defend him have.....

 

A topic that has been skimmer over but not really exhausted (like the rest of the items) is the seemingly failure of Toucan and Kuchar to come to a % agreement on winnings. There would be nothing to discuss had that item been determined on Wednesday. I'm paraphrasing, but Toucan himself said he trusted a fair amount would be paid by Kuchar after the tourney was over.

 

Expensive lessoned learned by Toucan.

 

And that makes it right?????

 

Of course it doesn't make it right but that statement is all some here need to justify his wage and % tip for the week. Don't assume I'm backing Kuchar.

[straightshot7]

A topic that has been skimmer over but not really exhausted (like the rest of the items) is the seemingly failure of Toucan and Kuchar to come to a % agreement on winnings. There would be nothing to discuss had that item been determined on Wednesday. I'm paraphrasing, but Toucan himself said he trusted a fair amount would be paid by Kuchar after the tourney was over.

 

Expensive lessoned learned by Toucan.

 

Do you agree on a tip with your waiter before the food comes out!?

 

Toucan was 100% correct to trust that a first class Tour pro like Kuchar would pay a fair amount. Turns out that wasn't the case but the party clearly at fault is Kuchar.

 

He's been a professional golfer for 19 years. You think he needs a formal agreement to figure out an appropriate amount to pay a caddie? He could have consulted with any other Pro if he was confused.

 

Stop making excuses for Kuchar! Agreement or no agreement, 00.38% total payment/tip to Caddie on a WIN is never appropriate.

[Hawkeye77]

Some of you guys are still arguing about there being no "agreement" and that Kuch wasn't "obligated" to do anything? Really? You want out of doing the standard/correct thing by a technicality?

 

Imagine you go to a restaurant/bar with one of your friends and you guys eat and drink and your bill is $100.

 

Are you going to leave a 16 CENT tip? $00.16? And then tell the waiter and everyone else, "Sorry, there was no agreement".

 

Of course not. But 16 cents (more precisely 15.5 cents) is the mathematical equivalent of giving a $2,000 tip on $1,290,000 in winnings.

 

You can go through life not tipping or giving .155% tips if you want. No one is going to arrest you. You aren't technically "obligated", but does that make it right?

 

Kuchar said about El Tucan that week after winning: “He was definitely my lucky charm,” Kuchar said. “He brought me good luck and certainly some extra crowd support and did a great job as well. He did just what I was hoping for and looking for.”

 

Your math and well supported logic has no place in this thread! We tried the restaurant analogy in the last thread and it fell on deaf ears.

 

If it fell on deaf ears it's because El Toucan wasn't his waiter and Kuchar wasn't ordering food at a restaurant.

 

Regular tour caddies don't get "tips". It's a share of the purse, if a share is paid, based on the agreement between the player and the caddie.

 

Nothing logical about talking about restaurants.

 

Like the restaurant stuff, though, it's all been said before.

 

As for Kuch and his earnings, this will affect him ........................... zero.

[kcsf]

Funny how quickly people jump to conclusions here after facts are presented.

 

Just for those scoring at home, I'm 100% in Toucan's corner and think he got royally ethically screwed by a tightwad.

[jj9000]

Some of you on this thread on Team Kuchar need to read up on the a fallacy known (among other names) as the "continuum fallacy," or "fallacy of the beard."

 

Being cheap is a thing. Being generous is a thing. Just because some of you can't put an exact number on what is cheap doesn't mean that there isn't a thing called "being cheap."

 

So just stop with this "I don't know how much he should have given him, so therefore it can't have been cheap." None of you are actually saying those words, but that is, nevertheless, your argument. That's flat-out fallacious reasoning.

 

No tip on top of the $3,000 would have been cheap. $1.00 would have been cheap. (Virtually) everyone would agree with that. And so on, up to a certain point that varies from individual to individual. At some point we all have a point at which the tip becomes "reasonable," and then flows over into "generous." That is a given.

 

This is really the only argument here from those of us on Team Toucan. That's it. We're literally arguing about the definition of cheap in this instance, which is why I posted my question earlier in the thread. I really wish some of you guys on Team Kuchar would answer it, because I think it would help minimize the snark.

 

When Microsoft posts a job opening for a junior developer or something, they list a salary of X. If you want that job you can take it, if you don't you don't. People don't usually argue "well Steve Ballmer is worth 20B so they can afford more". There is a general understanding of how the economy works.

 

 

 

That's not how it works, big employers don't post a salary all that is negotiated and generally, successful companies do pay more because they have more.

 

Don't assume this because it's a terrible assumption.

 

Apple is an extremely successful company.

 

Care to take a gander at what they pay folks in China to produce iPhones?

[straightshot7]

Some of you guys are still arguing about there being no "agreement" and that Kuch wasn't "obligated" to do anything? Really? You want out of doing the standard/correct thing by a technicality?

 

Imagine you go to a restaurant/bar with one of your friends and you guys eat and drink and your bill is $100.

 

Are you going to leave a 16 CENT tip? $00.16? And then tell the waiter and everyone else, "Sorry, there was no agreement".

 

Of course not. But 16 cents (more precisely 15.5 cents) is the mathematical equivalent of giving a $2,000 tip on $1,290,000 in winnings.

 

You can go through life not tipping or giving .155% tips if you want. No one is going to arrest you. You aren't technically "obligated", but does that make it right?

 

Kuchar said about El Tucan that week after winning: “He was definitely my lucky charm,” Kuchar said. “He brought me good luck and certainly some extra crowd support and did a great job as well. He did just what I was hoping for and looking for.”

 

Your math and well supported logic has no place in this thread! We tried the restaurant analogy in the last thread and it fell on deaf ears.

 

If it fell on deaf ears it's because El Toucan wasn't his waiter and Kuchar wasn't ordering food at a restaurant.

 

Regular tour caddies don't get "tips". It's a share of the purse, if a share is paid, based on the agreement between the player and the caddie.

 

Nothing logical about talking about restaurants.

 

Like the restaurant stuff, though, it's all been said before.

 

As for Kuch and his earnings, this will affect him ........................... zero.

 

So you think 00.38% or $5,000 total pay is an appropriate amount to pay your caddie (who you praised) on a $1,296,000 win?

[DON SVO]

The only thing I can draw from this secondary flaming pile of a thread (based on how the first one went) is that, if I was Matt Kuchar or any other pro, I would be bringing my caddy or my backup caddy with me, period.

 

What a bunch of people are glossing over with their "Kuchar should have paid him (insert whatever arbitrary number that is justified in your mind at the present time)..." is that this sets a pretty big precedent regarding using a local caddy and what kind of train wreck can come from it.

[Hawkeye77]

Some of you guys are still arguing about there being no "agreement" and that Kuch wasn't "obligated" to do anything? Really? You want out of doing the standard/correct thing by a technicality?

 

Imagine you go to a restaurant/bar with one of your friends and you guys eat and drink and your bill is $100.

 

Are you going to leave a 16 CENT tip? $00.16? And then tell the waiter and everyone else, "Sorry, there was no agreement".

 

Of course not. But 16 cents (more precisely 15.5 cents) is the mathematical equivalent of giving a $2,000 tip on $1,290,000 in winnings.

 

You can go through life not tipping or giving .155% tips if you want. No one is going to arrest you. You aren't technically "obligated", but does that make it right?

 

Kuchar said about El Tucan that week after winning: “He was definitely my lucky charm,” Kuchar said. “He brought me good luck and certainly some extra crowd support and did a great job as well. He did just what I was hoping for and looking for.”

 

Your math and well supported logic has no place in this thread! We tried the restaurant analogy in the last thread and it fell on deaf ears.

 

If it fell on deaf ears it's because El Toucan wasn't his waiter and Kuchar wasn't ordering food at a restaurant.

 

Regular tour caddies don't get "tips". It's a share of the purse, if a share is paid, based on the agreement between the player and the caddie.

 

Nothing logical about talking about restaurants.

 

Like the restaurant stuff, though, it's all been said before.

 

As for Kuch and his earnings, this will affect him ........................... zero.

 

So you think 00.38% or $5,000 total pay is an appropriate amount to pay your caddie (who you praised) on a $1,296,000 win?

 

I've commented on my feelings.

 

Changing the subject has nothing to do with the fact this restaurant analogy stuff has nothing to do with the situation.

[bscinstnct]

Funny how quickly people jump to conclusions here after facts are presented.

 

Just for those scoring at home, I'm 100% in Toucan's corner and think he got royally ethically screwed by a tightwad.

 

We all agree there ; )

 

 

[BottleCap]

Might be a cultural thing with Kuchar, he's from the South.

[deadsolid...shank]

Yes people, I know a caddie’s tip is based on percentage of winnings. Although technically that’s really not a tip either, that’s a built in condition of most contracts.

 

A gratuity is “something given voluntarily or beyond obligation”. So not part of the contract. I was trying to be a little tongue in cheek with Obee with the exact phrasing. I apologize it didn’t come off how I intended it to.

 

I'm a bit confused on your position then as you've repeatedly said Kuchar is within his right to pay $5k total as that's a substantial amount of $$ for a Mexican caddy, yet the % paid after a tournament is earnings "that’s a built in condition of most contracts"

 

So you're saying .15% is a reasonable amount to pay a local caddy when ~5% is the normalized standard pay for a local?

 

First of all, I’ve never said anything what he should or should not have paid him (at least I don’t think I have, I’ve said a lot) although he absolutely was within his rights to pay him that. But my contention all along as been it s none of anyone else’s business. And I’ve never said anything about a MEXICAN caddie, please don’t start attributing words like that to me. I’ve referenced local caddies.

 

But in regards here, they didn’t have a stipulated amount in the contract in regards to percentage of winnings like I think most of the players do with their regular caddies. At least that’s how I’ve taken it.

[cdnglf]

And I'll tell you how this whole pathetic thing got started.....

 

How much cash did Kuchar actually have on him or have access to in Mexico?? I'd be willing to bet that he gave Tucan everything he had at the moment. I'm also betting Tucan didn't want a personal check.

 

No one is cruising around Mexico with a giant wad of cash other than the Drug lords.....and maybe Phil....LOL!!

 

There's a reason he got paid in a lot of small bills in a thick envelope. Kuch certainly cleaned out the ATM machine at the resort and the front desk.

 

The resorts deliberately keep very limited cash on hand to avoid getting jacked. Most things are on credit card. What do you think the odds are that Tucan was SUPPOSED to get more money later via a wire transfer and things somehow went terribly sideways?

 

Allegedly, the tip was the money ZJ paid to Kuchar's wife for carrying his bag for 4 holes after his caddy got sick.

 

Uh....no. I made that up in the last thread as a joke. ZJ didn't pay Kuchar's wife. No need to...

 

It is funny the envelope had small bills, but not surprising given the situation. Cash is not something carried around a lot these days. Tour is not full of a bunch of Phil's and their choke roll of $100s

 

Ok, you fooled me. I guess I wanted to believe it because it made the whole thing even more absurd.

.

 

 

[straightshot7]

Some of you guys are still arguing about there being no "agreement" and that Kuch wasn't "obligated" to do anything? Really? You want out of doing the standard/correct thing by a technicality?

 

Imagine you go to a restaurant/bar with one of your friends and you guys eat and drink and your bill is $100.

 

Are you going to leave a 16 CENT tip? $00.16? And then tell the waiter and everyone else, "Sorry, there was no agreement".

 

Of course not. But 16 cents (more precisely 15.5 cents) is the mathematical equivalent of giving a $2,000 tip on $1,290,000 in winnings.

 

You can go through life not tipping or giving .155% tips if you want. No one is going to arrest you. You aren't technically "obligated", but does that make it right?

 

Kuchar said about El Tucan that week after winning: “He was definitely my lucky charm,” Kuchar said. “He brought me good luck and certainly some extra crowd support and did a great job as well. He did just what I was hoping for and looking for.”

 

Your math and well supported logic has no place in this thread! We tried the restaurant analogy in the last thread and it fell on deaf ears.

 

If it fell on deaf ears it's because El Toucan wasn't his waiter and Kuchar wasn't ordering food at a restaurant.

 

Regular tour caddies don't get "tips". It's a share of the purse, if a share is paid, based on the agreement between the player and the caddie.

 

Nothing logical about talking about restaurants.

 

Like the restaurant stuff, though, it's all been said before.

 

As for Kuch and his earnings, this will affect him ........................... zero.

 

So you think 00.38% or $5,000 total pay is an appropriate amount to pay your caddie (who you praised) on a $1,296,000 win?

 

I've commented on my feelings.

 

Changing the subject has nothing to do with the fact this restaurant analogy stuff has nothing to do with the situation.

 

It's a simple question. No answer?

 

I'm not changing the subject. ^That is the subject.

 

Of course the restaurant analogy is not a perfect apples to apples comparison. As no analogy is. But it is similar in that there is unstated rule regarding tipping and what is considered normal and acceptable. 15% is generally considered a standard tip in America for good/normal service. And there is no oral/written agreement required for that to transpire. And if it doesn't happen, no one appeals to a oral/written agreement being the determining factor. The same is with caddie tips.

 

So the analogy was specifically for those claiming that a oral/written agreement is required for El Toucan to expect or receive a certain tip. As if all tradition and standard practice on caddie tipping should go out the window without an agreement made before the tournament.

 

Toucan trusting that a seasoned pro like Kuchar would pay him a fair amount in any event was the correct attitude. Unfortunately Kuchar failed to do that.

[BMC]

Kuchar just should have told him - "$5k and 5% of for any winnings." Kooch screwed the Tooch.

 

A veteran tour pro should know better.

[kcsf]

Some of you guys are still arguing about there being no "agreement" and that Kuch wasn't "obligated" to do anything? Really? You want out of doing the standard/correct thing by a technicality?

 

Imagine you go to a restaurant/bar with one of your friends and you guys eat and drink and your bill is $100.

 

Are you going to leave a 16 CENT tip? $00.16? And then tell the waiter and everyone else, "Sorry, there was no agreement".

 

Of course not. But 16 cents (more precisely 15.5 cents) is the mathematical equivalent of giving a $2,000 tip on $1,290,000 in winnings.

 

You can go through life not tipping or giving .155% tips if you want. No one is going to arrest you. You aren't technically "obligated", but does that make it right?

 

Kuchar said about El Tucan that week after winning: “He was definitely my lucky charm,” Kuchar said. “He brought me good luck and certainly some extra crowd support and did a great job as well. He did just what I was hoping for and looking for.”

 

Your math and well supported logic has no place in this thread! We tried the restaurant analogy in the last thread and it fell on deaf ears.

 

If it fell on deaf ears it's because El Toucan wasn't his waiter and Kuchar wasn't ordering food at a restaurant.

 

Regular tour caddies don't get "tips". It's a share of the purse, if a share is paid, based on the agreement between the player and the caddie.

 

Nothing logical about talking about restaurants.

 

Like the restaurant stuff, though, it's all been said before.

 

As for Kuch and his earnings, this will affect him ........................... zero.

 

The restaurant analogy is as close as we can come in comparing the two scenarios.

 

Servers rely on restaurant patrons to compensate them based on the service they give and what % is socially acceptable and deemed appropriate. In the USA that amount is 15-20% unless other variables come into play.

 

Toucan took a job where his pay is determined by a flat rate and a % after the tournament is over. Local caddies traditionally and historically have received ~5% of winnings.

 

To tip less in either circumstance is acting out of the norm.

[soap1984]

Everyone is talking like kuchars contract with the temp caddie was some 100 page document. It was probably just a flat fee plus some percentage of winnings as others have suggested. Even if they had a written contract there is nothing stopping kuchar from paying a reasonable amount by tour standards. Like at least $50,000 which effectively, after tax, costs him $25,000.

 

People on here act like a contract is a written on stone tablets that can never be questioned; there is a reason people go to court it isn't that simple. a contract cannot cover every potential situation and many aren't always fair.

 

And the point is whether they agreed or not, that isn't even the point. The fact that a pga player who has made as much money as kuchar would even suggest such a figure in a contract is the relevant factor from my end. The point is, kuchar is incredibly cheap and there is no defending it. If there was a contract, it shows kuchar thinks paying the caddie nothing is fair, which means he's cheap and a pretty crappy guy.

 

I hate this whole story. I always have liked kuchar, but he's obviously a cheap and selfish dude; very hard to look at him the same way. it's sad more than anything because you want to believe good things about people you admire. What a tool.

[deadsolid...shank]

Some of you guys are still arguing about there being no "agreement" and that Kuch wasn't "obligated" to do anything? Really? You want out of doing the standard/correct thing by a technicality?

 

Imagine you go to a restaurant/bar with one of your friends and you guys eat and drink and your bill is $100.

 

Are you going to leave a 16 CENT tip? $00.16? And then tell the waiter and everyone else, "Sorry, there was no agreement".

 

Of course not. But 16 cents (more precisely 15.5 cents) is the mathematical equivalent of giving a $2,000 tip on $1,290,000 in winnings.

 

You can go through life not tipping or giving .155% tips if you want. No one is going to arrest you. You aren't technically "obligated", but does that make it right?

 

Kuchar said about El Tucan that week after winning: “He was definitely my lucky charm,” Kuchar said. “He brought me good luck and certainly some extra crowd support and did a great job as well. He did just what I was hoping for and looking for.”

 

Your math and well supported logic has no place in this thread! We tried the restaurant analogy in the last thread and it fell on deaf ears.

 

If it fell on deaf ears it's because El Toucan wasn't his waiter and Kuchar wasn't ordering food at a restaurant.

 

Regular tour caddies don't get "tips". It's a share of the purse, if a share is paid, based on the agreement between the player and the caddie.

 

Nothing logical about talking about restaurants.

 

Like the restaurant stuff, though, it's all been said before.

 

As for Kuch and his earnings, this will affect him ........................... zero.

 

The restaurant analogy is as close as we can come in comparing the two scenarios.

 

Servers rely on restaurant patrons to compensate them based on the service they give and what % is socially acceptable and deemed appropriate. In the USA that amount is 15-20% unless other variables come into play.

 

Toucan took a job where his pay is determined by a flat rate and a % after the tournament is over. Local caddies traditionally and historically have received ~5% of winnings.

 

To tip less in either circumstance is acting out of the norm.

 

Is that 5% to local caddies a confirmed number or just speculation?

[BottleCap]

Some of you on this thread on Team Kuchar need to read up on the a fallacy known (among other names) as the "continuum fallacy," or "fallacy of the beard."

 

Being cheap is a thing. Being generous is a thing. Just because some of you can't put an exact number on what is cheap doesn't mean that there isn't a thing called "being cheap."

 

So just stop with this "I don't know how much he should have given him, so therefore it can't have been cheap." None of you are actually saying those words, but that is, nevertheless, your argument. That's flat-out fallacious reasoning.

 

No tip on top of the $3,000 would have been cheap. $1.00 would have been cheap. (Virtually) everyone would agree with that. And so on, up to a certain point that varies from individual to individual. At some point we all have a point at which the tip becomes "reasonable," and then flows over into "generous." That is a given.

 

This is really the only argument here from those of us on Team Toucan. That's it. We're literally arguing about the definition of cheap in this instance, which is why I posted my question earlier in the thread. I really wish some of you guys on Team Kuchar would answer it, because I think it would help minimize the snark.

 

When Microsoft posts a job opening for a junior developer or something, they list a salary of X. If you want that job you can take it, if you don't you don't. People don't usually argue "well Steve Ballmer is worth 20B so they can afford more". There is a general understanding of how the economy works.

 

 

 

That's not how it works, big employers don't post a salary all that is negotiated and generally, successful companies do pay more because they have more.

 

Don't assume this because it's a terrible assumption.

 

Apple is an extremely successful company.

 

Care to take a gander at what they pay folks in China to produce iPhones?

 

Apple doesn't pay people to produce their phones. Apple contracts production out to firms that may manufacture them in China.

[Under2hours]

A topic that has been skimmer over but not really exhausted (like the rest of the items) is the seemingly failure of Toucan and Kuchar to come to a % agreement on winnings. There would be nothing to discuss had that item been determined on Wednesday. I'm paraphrasing, but Toucan himself said he trusted a fair amount would be paid by Kuchar after the tourney was over.

 

Expensive lessoned learned by Toucan.

 

Do you agree on a tip with your waiter before the food comes out!?

 

Toucan was 100% correct to trust that a first class Tour pro like Kuchar would pay a fair amount. Turns out that wasn't the case but the party clearly at fault is Kuchar.

 

He's been a professional golfer for 19 years. You think he needs a formal agreement to figure out an appropriate amount to pay a caddie? He could have consulted with any other Pro if he was confused.

 

Stop making excuses for Kuchar! Agreement or no agreement, 00.38% total payment/tip to Caddie on a WIN is never appropriate.

 

Great response!!!!!

[duffer987]

The restaurant analogy is as close as we can come in comparing the two scenarios.

 

Really? Why?

How exactly is a server at a restaurant who will have fleeting interactions with dozens - maybe hundreds - of customers a day and dealing with all sorts of unique personalities and requests, the same as someone spending 5 consecutive hours following around one specific customer, do the same handful of repetitive tasks?

[kcsf]

The restaurant analogy is as close as we can come in comparing the two scenarios.

 

Really? Why?

How exactly is a server at a restaurant who will have fleeting interactions with dozens - maybe hundreds - of customers a day and dealing with all sorts of unique personalities and requests, the same as someone spending 5 consecutive hours following around one specific customer, do the same handful of repetitive tasks?

 

Did you not read my post? In both situations a persons wage is determined by a reasonably accepted % set by societal standards.

[t4t3r]

The moving of goal posts is really quite something. First it was that Kuchar is within his right to pay what he wants, then it was Toucan got paid according to the “contract.” Now they’ve moved to the work/service that Toucan provided was menial and repetitive.

 

Holy cow.

[Hawkeye77]

Some of you guys are still arguing about there being no "agreement" and that Kuch wasn't "obligated" to do anything? Really? You want out of doing the standard/correct thing by a technicality?

 

Imagine you go to a restaurant/bar with one of your friends and you guys eat and drink and your bill is $100.

 

Are you going to leave a 16 CENT tip? $00.16? And then tell the waiter and everyone else, "Sorry, there was no agreement".

 

Of course not. But 16 cents (more precisely 15.5 cents) is the mathematical equivalent of giving a $2,000 tip on $1,290,000 in winnings.

 

You can go through life not tipping or giving .155% tips if you want. No one is going to arrest you. You aren't technically "obligated", but does that make it right?

 

Kuchar said about El Tucan that week after winning: “He was definitely my lucky charm,” Kuchar said. “He brought me good luck and certainly some extra crowd support and did a great job as well. He did just what I was hoping for and looking for.”

 

Your math and well supported logic has no place in this thread! We tried the restaurant analogy in the last thread and it fell on deaf ears.

 

If it fell on deaf ears it's because El Toucan wasn't his waiter and Kuchar wasn't ordering food at a restaurant.

 

Regular tour caddies don't get "tips". It's a share of the purse, if a share is paid, based on the agreement between the player and the caddie.

 

Nothing logical about talking about restaurants.

 

Like the restaurant stuff, though, it's all been said before.

 

As for Kuch and his earnings, this will affect him ........................... zero.

 

The restaurant analogy is as close as we can come in comparing the two scenarios.

 

Servers rely on restaurant patrons to compensate them based on the service they give and what % is socially acceptable and deemed appropriate. In the USA that amount is 15-20% unless other variables come into play.

 

Toucan took a job where his pay is determined by a flat rate and a % after the tournament is over. Local caddies traditionally and historically have received ~5% of winnings.

 

To tip less in either circumstance is acting out of the norm.

 

Is that 5% to local caddies a confirmed number or just speculation?

 

Exactly.

 

LOL, "traditionally and historically" - love to hear the specifics of that tradition at the club where this tourney took place, which is what matters. Kuch given bad info on that? He said he asked about it. Want to hear more about the policies/expectations/traditions of the club.

[cdnglf]

The restaurant analogy is as close as we can come in comparing the two scenarios.

 

Really? Why?

How exactly is a server at a restaurant who will have fleeting interactions with dozens - maybe hundreds - of customers a day and dealing with all sorts of unique personalities and requests, the same as someone spending 5 consecutive hours following around one specific customer, do the same handful of repetitive tasks?

 

This is more like going to French Laundry, having the dining experience of your life, scratching out the normal service charge, and leaving 15 cents.

 

And then, after being called out for being a dime-tipping cheapskate, saying it “wasn’t ten cents, and it wasn’t 20%”

[Hawkeye77]

The restaurant analogy is as close as we can come in comparing the two scenarios.

 

Really? Why?

How exactly is a server at a restaurant who will have fleeting interactions with dozens - maybe hundreds - of customers a day and dealing with all sorts of unique personalities and requests, the same as someone spending 5 consecutive hours following around one specific customer, do the same handful of repetitive tasks?

 

Did you not read my post? In both situations a persons wage is determined by a reasonably accepted % set by societal standards.

 

Societal standards don't set pay for tour caddies - it's the money driven PGA Tour, not the SJW Open.

[sfiggins]

Kutcher sounds like the kinda guy who gives his wife $5 for Valentines and says, “Go buy yourself something pretty.”

[Hawkeye77]

The restaurant analogy is as close as we can come in comparing the two scenarios.

 

Really? Why?

How exactly is a server at a restaurant who will have fleeting interactions with dozens - maybe hundreds - of customers a day and dealing with all sorts of unique personalities and requests, the same as someone spending 5 consecutive hours following around one specific customer, do the same handful of repetitive tasks?

 

This is more like going to French Laundry, having the dining experience of your life, scratching out the normal service charge, and leaving 15 cents.

 

Leaving 15 cents, lol, they'd have to pay me to eat any French person's laundry! Or anyone else's.

[Ferguson]

Speaking of Apple and Kuch:

 

 

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

 

 

 

 

I hope you're proud of your son, Pete.