El Tucan Speaks..... (NO POLITICS)

[Hawkeye77]

There's not much doubt that Kucher was being cheap. He's not alone. Tiger has a history of being cheap. So does Michael Jordan. Warren Buffet. Leonardo DiCaprio. Make of them what you will. There are cheap people in the world and yet those same people can be very generous at times with their foundations. Who knows how their minds work. Kuch will have to live with what some people now think about him. The tip was his to give, as it was above and beyond the agreed upon amount. He chose to go cheap. That's his prerogative. Now he'll live with some fallout. It doesn't make him a bad person as he's shown through some of his charity work that there's a part of him that's giving. Hard to discern how some people think. Always has been

 

You don't stay rich giving money away....

 

Tell Phil that and he will laugh at you and stuff $100 in your hand.

 

Gave a kid $100 for getting pointed to a "restroom" at the 2008 PGA at Hazeltine - I kind of started warming to him just a wee bit but we were there because my daughter wanted to follow and watch Tiger and Rory!

[sailfishchris]

Whatever the agreement was.....now that this is out in public. This is going to follow Kuchar like he's got a crap in his shorts.

 

For a week or two. Something else will come up and this will move to the backburner, just like the first time. Of course, someone or something can alway rekindle it, like this time. But this is such a non story to the world outside of golf.

I agree. I think Ortiz turning down the money was/is a gamble to get more money from Kuchar. The story right now is a golf only story, but, if this hits mainstream and the whole caddies get 10% of winnings is tagged along in the story..... Kuchar will be crucified. No matter what their agreement was it will be bad for his image. Time will tell.

[Hawkeye77]

ok, so we all buy a lotto ticket.

 

The worker beside us in the car (who we met 4 days ago) on the way to the shop says "better hook me up if you win". This guy has been a big help in the 4 days since you met him. He carried your tools for you, fetched what you needed and was a nice bloke.

 

You turn to him and say "ill give you 5K if I win bud"

 

You then win 1.5Mil...

 

How many of us now give him more and how many give him the 5K we agreed on?

 

Kuchar didn't win the lottery, the $5k promise is unenforceable AND of course, I would keep my word. Now if four of us all pitch in to buy "x" tickets, we are splitting it four ways, but that didn't seem to be the question.

[Darth Putter]

General tipping practices on the PGA Tour and Phil being the GOAT.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/phil-mickelson-tipping

[redfirebird08]

There's not much doubt that Kucher was being cheap. He's not alone. Tiger has a history of being cheap. So does Michael Jordan. Warren Buffet. Leonardo DiCaprio. Make of them what you will. There are cheap people in the world and yet those same people can be very generous at times with their foundations. Who knows how their minds work. Kuch will have to live with what some people now think about him. The tip was his to give, as it was above and beyond the agreed upon amount. He chose to go cheap. That's his prerogative. Now he'll live with some fallout. It doesn't make him a bad person as he's shown through some of his charity work that there's a part of him that's giving. Hard to discern how some people think. Always has been

 

You don't stay rich giving money away....

 

Come on, those cheap tippers might tip 10 percent

 

Kuchar's action has set the bar so exponentially low that no one is going to be able to stoop to his level.

 

Total payment of 0.386% is pretty incredible, lol

[MtlJeff]

Whatever the agreement was.....now that this is out in public. This is going to follow Kuchar like he's got a crap in his shorts.

 

For a week or two. Something else will come up and this will move to the backburner, just like the first time. Of course, someone or something can alway rekindle it, like this time. But this is such a non story to the world outside of golf.

I agree. I think Ortiz turning down the money was/is a gamble to get more money from Kuchar. The story right now is a golf only story, but, if this hits mainstream and the whole caddies get 10% of winnings is tagged along in the story..... Kuchar will be crucified. No matter what their agreement was it will be bad for his image. Time will tell.

 

Do caddies want this story to get bigger? Outside of the golf community the narrative could just as easily be why is a caddy paid that much money when a pro can win a professional tournament with a person he'd just met who agreed to do it for 3000$ plus undisclosed bonus

[EddieEdwards]

$2000 is a 66% tip. Most people would regard that as generous.

 

Let's not forget about the pair of sketchers he got. There so comfortable, el tucan is looping an extra 36 a day. He should be paying Kuch.

[MilkyButterCuts]

General tipping practices on the PGA Tour and Phil being the GOAT.

 

https://www.golfdige...ckelson-tipping

 

Claude (Harmon) added, "If you're down to your last dollar, give it to the guy who helps you out. You can make more money. You can never make up for slighting a man."

[kcsf]

Whatever the agreement was.....now that this is out in public. This is going to follow Kuchar like he's got a crap in his shorts.

 

For a week or two. Something else will come up and this will move to the backburner, just like the first time. Of course, someone or something can alway rekindle it, like this time. But this is such a non story to the world outside of golf.

I agree. I think Ortiz turning down the money was/is a gamble to get more money from Kuchar. The story right now is a golf only story, but, if this hits mainstream and the whole caddies get 10% of winnings is tagged along in the story..... Kuchar will be crucified. No matter what their agreement was it will be bad for his image. Time will tell.

 

Do caddies want this story to get bigger? Outside of the golf community the narrative could just as easily be why is a caddy paid that much money when a pro can win a professional tournament with a person he'd just met who agreed to do it for 3000$ plus undisclosed bonus

 

I wish I'd paid better attention to the tournament to see how much El Tuc was giving reads for putts, yardage, and other general knowledge of the course. It's my opinion he could've brought WAY more to the table than a regular touring caddie. El Tuc has walked that course how many thousands of times? I'd like to think he passed some of that knowledge on to Kuchar, thus helping Kuchar win. Just me being a positive sucker I guess.

[sailfishchris]

Whatever the agreement was.....now that this is out in public. This is going to follow Kuchar like he's got a crap in his shorts.

 

For a week or two. Something else will come up and this will move to the backburner, just like the first time. Of course, someone or something can alway rekindle it, like this time. But this is such a non story to the world outside of golf.

I agree. I think Ortiz turning down the money was/is a gamble to get more money from Kuchar. The story right now is a golf only story, but, if this hits mainstream and the whole caddies get 10% of winnings is tagged along in the story..... Kuchar will be crucified. No matter what their agreement was it will be bad for his image. Time will tell.

 

Do caddies want this story to get bigger? Outside of the golf community the narrative could just as easily be why is a caddy paid that much money when a pro can win a professional tournament with a person he'd just met who agreed to do it for 3000$ plus undisclosed bonus

I think the media will look at it that Ortiz didn't receive the 10%.

[deadsolid...shank]

Whatever the agreement was.....now that this is out in public. This is going to follow Kuchar like he's got a crap in his shorts.

 

For a week or two. Something else will come up and this will move to the backburner, just like the first time. Of course, someone or something can alway rekindle it, like this time. But this is such a non story to the world outside of golf.

I agree. I think Ortiz turning down the money was/is a gamble to get more money from Kuchar. The story right now is a golf only story, but, if this hits mainstream and the whole caddies get 10% of winnings is tagged along in the story..... Kuchar will be crucified. No matter what their agreement was it will be bad for his image. Time will tell.

 

Do caddies want this story to get bigger? Outside of the golf community the narrative could just as easily be why is a caddy paid that much money when a pro can win a professional tournament with a person he'd just met who agreed to do it for 3000$ plus undisclosed bonus

 

I wish I'd paid better attention to the tournament to see how much El Tuc was giving reads for putts, yardage, and other general knowledge of the course. It's my opinion he could've brought WAY more to the table than a regular touring caddie. El Tuc has walked that course how many thousands of times? I'd like to think he passed some of that knowledge on to Kuchar, thus helping Kuchar win. Just me being a positive sucker I guess.

 

That’s entirely plausible that he did. But probably largely offset by likely not giving yardages, clubs or shot advice. Who knows!

[rgk5]

Kuch's reputation was entrenched after he won and then paid $5000. Any adjustments made after that were the result of public backlash and are therefore disingenuous. As they say, it isn't what you do when people are looking, it's what you do when they aren't looking. And we already know the answer to that.

I agree! Kuch does a lot of charity work but that is seen. The payment to El Tucan was not supposed to be seen by the public. My opinion of Kuch has dropped tremendously since this all transpired. Some have said El Tuc was an idiot for not taking the $15K later offered. I admire him for telling them to keep it!

 

As your post infers, the timing is eveything. If Kucher was REALLY going to pay him $15K more, why not do it at the completion of the round? This looks like a ham fisted reaction to public opinion, a flaccid attempt to save face.

[MtlJeff]

Whatever the agreement was.....now that this is out in public. This is going to follow Kuchar like he's got a crap in his shorts.

 

For a week or two. Something else will come up and this will move to the backburner, just like the first time. Of course, someone or something can alway rekindle it, like this time. But this is such a non story to the world outside of golf.

I agree. I think Ortiz turning down the money was/is a gamble to get more money from Kuchar. The story right now is a golf only story, but, if this hits mainstream and the whole caddies get 10% of winnings is tagged along in the story..... Kuchar will be crucified. No matter what their agreement was it will be bad for his image. Time will tell.

 

Do caddies want this story to get bigger? Outside of the golf community the narrative could just as easily be why is a caddy paid that much money when a pro can win a professional tournament with a person he'd just met who agreed to do it for 3000$ plus undisclosed bonus

I think the media will look at it that Ortiz didn't receive the 10%.

 

I definitely think that would be the initial reaction, but the counterpoint stories could come shortly thereafter, IMO

 

 

 

 

[Obee]

There's not much doubt that Kucher was being cheap. He's not alone. Tiger has a history of being cheap. So does Michael Jordan. Warren Buffet. Leonardo DiCaprio. Make of them what you will. There are cheap people in the world and yet those same people can be very generous at times with their foundations. Who knows how their minds work. Kuch will have to live with what some people now think about him. The tip was his to give, as it was above and beyond the agreed upon amount. He chose to go cheap. That's his prerogative. Now he'll live with some fallout. It doesn't make him a bad person as he's shown through some of his charity work that there's a part of him that's giving. Hard to discern how some people think. Always has been

 

You don't stay rich giving money away....

 

Tell Phil that and he will laugh at you and stuff $100 in your hand.

 

Gave a kid $100 for getting pointed to a "restroom" at the 2008 PGA at Hazeltine - I kind of started warming to him just a wee bit but we were there because my daughter wanted to follow and watch Tiger and Rory!

 

15 years ago, Phil would show up at any country club he would play at with a wad of $50s. EVERY tip he gave was a fifty-dollar bill. I've had this confirmed by multiple people in the industry, and it's not showy, he just does it all the time. Now it's a Benjamin.

 

Say what you will about the guy, he IS a great tipper.

[Hawkeye77]

Kuch's reputation was entrenched after he won and then paid $5000. Any adjustments made after that were the result of public backlash and are therefore disingenuous. As they say, it isn't what you do when people are looking, it's what you do when they aren't looking. And we already know the answer to that.

I agree! Kuch does a lot of charity work but that is seen. The payment to El Tucan was not supposed to be seen by the public. My opinion of Kuch has dropped tremendously since this all transpired. Some have said El Tuc was an idiot for not taking the $15K later offered. I admire him for telling them to keep it!

 

As your post infers, the timing is eveything. If Kucher was REALLY going to pay him $15K more, why not do it at the completion of the round? This looks like a ham fisted reaction to public opinion, a flaccid attempt to save face.

 

Except Kuch isn't releasing the story, the caddie is (or those on his behalf). Steiny isn't saying much of anything at all. I thought his PR skills during Tiger's troubles were poor, but the caddie's surrogates make him look like a genius.

[soap1984]

Many people saying what I said in the original thread; perhaps caddies get paid too much. But that is a completely different argument. Saying the caddie did nothing is fine (I personally think paying a caddy $140k for a win is insane), but that isn't the issue.

 

It's hard to not feel like kuchar is a scum bag after this and his constant smiley persona actually makes it worse; he's not only cheap/unfair, his whole "golly gee wiz" act is totally phony and disingenuous.

[eebomb]

ElTucan sounds like a self-entitled jerk. He and some others are pretty much clueless as to the additional duties of the tour caddie. Guy does a fraction of the job for a week and wants full pay... Total BS. I'm also going to bet the El Tucan pretty much cost himself future earnings with the pros.

 

I'll make this offer, If Kuch or any other pro want to pay me $5k to caddie for them for the week I'll gladly take the week off and sling their bag around.

eeeh he actually says he doesn't expect full pay he said 50 k which is way less then the full time caddie 10 percent. Did you even read the article before making your statements

[redfirebird08]

Many people saying what I said in the original thread; perhaps caddies get paid too much. But that is a completely different argument. Saying the caddie did nothing is fine (I personally think paying a caddy $140k for a win is insane), but that isn't the issue.

 

It's hard to not feel like kuchar is a scum bag after this and his constant smiley persona actually makes it worse; he's not only cheap/unfair, his whole "golly gee wiz" act is totally phony and disingenuous.

 

I definitely think you can make the argument modern caddies are overpaid and I agree that's a separate issue. By the standards of the industry, a payment of $5k on a $1.3 million prize is incredibly cheap. Seems like Steinberg might have the two biggest cheapskates in golf on his roster. The "aw shucks" routine for Kuchar isn't gonna help him on this situation. He should just own up to it and say he doesn't think the caddie deserved more than $5k. Stick to your guns.

[Darth Putter]

View from The Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/02/12/matt-kuchar-paid-lucky-charm-caddie-just-after-winning-million-plus-mexican-tournament/?utm_term=.72982d9d01d7

 

 

and ESPN http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/25981144/matt-kuchar-temporary-caddie-feels-ripped-victory

 

 

That's all I could find outside dedicated golf sites. I would expect more in the next 24 hours.

[Ferguson]

How exactly did a guy who can't speak English help Kuchar win this tournament? Did he even give Kuchar yardages considering Mexico is on the Metric system?

 

 

Thoughtful questions from a guy with only 53 posts.

 

How many posts is that in Canada?

 

(And I love Canada and all its people and honestly don't even know if it is on the metric system).

 

 

That's 134 posts in Canada.

 

As far as I know you multiply the American posts by 2.54 to get Canadian posts (if they are on the metric system).

 

 

Either way - TEESHIVE mentioning the metric system demonstrates keen insight.

[cxx]

Do you ever notice that people that work for tips are the biggest tippers. Hmmm.

 

If Tucan wanted %10 he should have asked up front. Then he could head to the locker room while someone else carried the bag.

[straightshot7]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

[cxx]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Somehow I doubt it. His profile was just raised by about a factor of 3. Sometime any news is good news.

[redfirebird08]

View from The Washington Post https://www.washingt...m=.72982d9d01d7

 

 

and ESPN http://www.espn.com/...-ripped-victory

 

 

That's all I could find outside dedicated golf sites. I would expect more in the next 24 hours.

 

Wonder if Feinstein will write anything on this. He seems to be a member of the morality police in golf writing.

[Hawkeye77]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Hasn't been heckled yet, lol, and perfect opportunity at Waste Management. Maybe at The Masters a couple of folks will clap only slightly less politely.

 

People need to face it - this will not haunt Kuchar in any way. Sadly, another silly media cycle about this because of the caddie's side bungling the belated money grab and underestimating their leverage, but that cycle will be pretty short. Genesis, some great Florida tourneys, "5th Major", lol, Masters on the radar screens now for real golf news. College basketball heating up towards March Madness, spring training, opening day coming on, etc. Winter storms will wipe caddie story off the map all by themselves.

 

This just isn't that big.

 

View from The Washington Post https://www.washingt...m=.72982d9d01d7

 

 

and ESPN http://www.espn.com/...-ripped-victory

 

 

That's all I could find outside dedicated golf sites. I would expect more in the next 24 hours.

 

Wonder if Feinstein will write anything on this. He seems to be a member of the morality police in golf writing.

 

Please don't drive through Kansas wondering if there will be a tornado. ;-)

[deadsolid...shank]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Except that he won’t (unless someone puts a WRX group together to do so). They proved that in Phoenix. The majority of people liked him before this, and this isn’t going to change that.

[MtlJeff]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Except that he won’t (unless someone puts a WRX group together to do so). They proved that in Phoenix. The majority of people liked him before this, and this isn’t going to change that.

 

50k??? You could have the caddy disappeared for less than that. And then this story goes away

 

Of course than people would be like "the hired assassin business is a tough job , Kuch really should've paid more"

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Not much a follower of golf, are you? FYI--- Kuch just played the WM, a tournament where hecklers wouldn't hold back, and yet no heckling. In fact the fans just loved him as usual.

[straightshot7]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Not much a follower of golf, are you? FYI--- Kuch just played the WM, a tournament where hecklers wouldn't hold back, and yet no heckling. In fact the fans just loved him as usual.

 

So you must have been right next to Kuch the entire time in order to know what was said the entire tournament? Are you his actual full time caddie?

 

And now the story is in mainstream media. But I guess we shouldn't expect that to make a difference.

 

I'm not saying he'll be brutally heckled everywhere he goes. My point was people won't forget this. And long term the negativity from it is a lot more costly than ~$50k. You don't think Kuch would like to go back in time and pay the guy more and avoid this story? He'd have to be insane not to.

 

And yeah I've only been following golf avidly and watching 10-20 tournaments a year for like 21 years. Why make a stupid comment like that? We all follow golf here.

[duffer987]

Kuchar should cut a check for $50,000 and make a public apology now. It could save some face for him. However deserved or not, he'll be heckled for this for the rest of his life and it will affect how endorsers approach him and his value to them.

 

Not much a follower of golf, are you? FYI--- Kuch just played the WM, a tournament where hecklers wouldn't hold back, and yet no heckling. In fact the fans just loved him as usual.

Indeed. Remember all those people coming down 18 at the Tour Championship last year calling Tiger a philandering, pill-popping, dbag! That was quite a scene...

... that never happened and never would.