El Tucan Speaks..... (NO POLITICS)

[Hawkeye77]

How exactly did a guy who can't speak English help Kuchar win this tournament? Did he even give Kuchar yardages considering Mexico is on the Metric system?

 

 

Thoughtful questions from a guy with only 53 posts.

 

How many posts is that in Canada?

 

(And I love Canada and all its people and honestly don't even know if it is on the metric system).

[Frostfield]

I had dinner with a couple a few years back. Nice people. We had a nice steakhouse dinner with a couple bottles of wine. The bill was over $400 with the wine being around half the cost. The couple only wanted to tip on the food amount because they felt the server would've done the same amount of work had we simply ordered water. I was shocked at the cheapness. Haven't had dinner with them again. Kooch strikes me as that type of person.

[Hawkeye77]

Kutcher sounds like the kinda guy who gives his wife $5 for Valentines and says, "Go buy yourself something pretty."

 

When he was in Aus he was on the putting green with a young Aus junior. Came over on his own, bent down to the kids height and had a conversation all about the young kid. They sunk some putts together, he then fist pumped the kid and walked off. Wasn't for Fame, he didn't have to and no one asked him to.

 

I don't feel this guys reputation as a person should be decided by what he has or has not paid someone.

 

Also keep in mind the agreement may have been 5k all along and the caddy was happy because if he did go well he would get more work. I know any local caddy would caddy for free/ bugger all to carry the bag of any pro on the PGA simply for the experience

 

Granted, we have one data point here but you don't think someone should be at least partially judged on how he treats people and, in this case, his employee?

 

Not his employee!

[jaymayor]

How exactly did a guy who can't speak English help Kuchar win this tournament? Did he even give Kuchar yardages considering Mexico is on the Metric system?

 

 

Thoughtful questions from a guy with only 53 posts.

 

How many posts is that in Canada?

 

(And I love Canada and all its people and honestly don't even know if it is on the metric system).

 

Roughly 37 posts. Metric to answer your question though.

[kcsf]

@Hawkeye. I can't seem to attach the prior conversation

 

 

It's the exact definition of societal standards. The standard wage for caddies is 5-10% of the pro golfers earnings. The standard wage for a server is 15-20% of the cost of the meal. Both industries have deemed these wages to be the standard. You can choose pay outside of that, but doing so is out of the norm. No 1 person sets these norms, not you, not me not Kuchar.

 

But don't take my word for it:

 

simplepschology.org

 

Social Norms

 

Social Norms are unwritten rules about how to behave. They provide us with an expected idea of how to behave in a particular social group or culture. For example we expect students to arrive to lesson on time and complete their work.

The idea of norms provides a key to understanding social influence in general and conformity in particular. Social norms are the accepted standards of behavior of social groups.

[nsxguy]

Some of you guys are still arguing about there being no "agreement" and that Kuch wasn't "obligated" to do anything? Really? You want out of doing the standard/correct thing by a technicality?

 

Imagine you go to a restaurant/bar with one of your friends and you guys eat and drink and your bill is $100.

 

Are you going to leave a 16 CENT tip? $00.16? And then tell the waiter and everyone else, "Sorry, there was no agreement".

 

Of course not. But 16 cents (more precisely 15.5 cents) is the mathematical equivalent of giving a $2,000 tip on $1,290,000 in winnings.

 

You can go through life not tipping or giving .155% tips if you want. No one is going to arrest you. You aren't technically "obligated", but does that make it right?

 

Kuchar said about El Tucan that week after winning: “He was definitely my lucky charm,” Kuchar said. “He brought me good luck and certainly some extra crowd support and did a great job as well. He did just what I was hoping for and looking for.”

 

Been a long time since I went to school but actually a $2000 tip on $3000 in earnings is a 67% tip, not a .155% tip.

 

 

And personally I have a hard time believing that Mr Tucan, a "poor" guy, refused $15K, 3 TIMES what he was initially given, and probably a half a year's normal earnings, in hopes he'd get more.

 

Was Mr Gillis "advising" him (again ?). :taunt: If this was in the USA and the caddie refused such an additional incentive I'd suspect Mr Tucan was preparing a lawsuit.

[cdnglf]

How exactly did a guy who can't speak English help Kuchar win this tournament? Did he even give Kuchar yardages considering Mexico is on the Metric system?

 

 

Thoughtful questions from a guy with only 53 posts.

 

How many posts is that in Canada?

 

(And I love Canada and all its people and honestly don't even know if it is on the metric system).

 

 

See, Toucan's problem is that he wasn't from Myanmar.

[Hawkeye77]

This is business, not a social group and not a real culture as contemplated by societal norms, but we won't agree on that, and that's okay.

 

How exactly did a guy who can't speak English help Kuchar win this tournament? Did he even give Kuchar yardages considering Mexico is on the Metric system?

 

 

Thoughtful questions from a guy with only 53 posts.

 

How many posts is that in Canada?

 

(And I love Canada and all its people and honestly don't even know if it is on the metric system).

 

 

Guess I didn't go out on much of a limb!

 

And who TF ever heard of the Myanmar Road?

[Lacey Underall]

Kuch is dead to me. This story is just ridiculous. I cannot imagine the mindset of paying the guy $5k. I'm glad he didn't accept the extra $15k. He should no even accept the 50k! That's less than half what he should have made. I hope Kuch gets a horrible case of the shanks in 2019. That would be Karma.

[cdnglf]

This is business, not a social group and not a real culture as contemplated by societal norms, but we won't agree on that, and that's okay.

 

How exactly did a guy who can't speak English help Kuchar win this tournament? Did he even give Kuchar yardages considering Mexico is on the Metric system?

 

 

Thoughtful questions from a guy with only 53 posts.

 

How many posts is that in Canada?

 

(And I love Canada and all its people and honestly don't even know if it is on the metric system).

 

 

Guess I didn't go out on much of a limb!

 

And who TF ever heard of the Myanmar Road?

 

[farmer]

I apologize for "Toucan" rather than "Tucan".

[wobgon]

Most ridiculous thread this year, barely beating out the last thread on this subject.

[Obee]

Heres a question.

 

Lets say you, for whatever reason, are carrying a shopping bag with $1.3MM in cash.

 

And you forget it under your table at McDonalds.

 

Somebody finds it and returns it to you.

 

How much would you give them as a reward?

 

Me? Personally? $100,000.

 

I might give them something, but $100,000? Yikes. To quote from the dark side, "keep your hands off my sack!"

 

A coupon to a place where they can get a proper hot cup of coffee to start - then we'll see.

 

The money was GONE. If the wrong person finds it, you get zero.

 

Yes, $100,000, assuming I didn't need every cent of it to pay my bookie....

[Under2hours]

Seems the Pro-Kuch crowd has thinned out since the first go around January 12th...... Only seen 1-2 bashing Gillis or the myob or no one knows what Kuch paid him & very few SJW posts (yes I've used that this thread).

 

Kuch had plenty of time from January 12th when Gillis posted & the 24th when Tucan emailed Steinberg to make it right. Obviously he feels $5,000 was appropriate.

 

Keep on smiling Matt.....

[redfirebird08]

$50k is less than 4%. Seems like a pretty reasonable expectation when you help a guy win $1.3 million. Kooch screwed the pooch on this one.

[rkelso184]

Maybe it's an American thing as everyone keeps telling us what they ate and what they left haha! In Aus we don't tip. Don't get me wrong everyone has a little jar on there bench which you can chuck some money into but it's not a must. So many people stating he was an employee which is not true so many people stating he under paid which may be true but the simple answer to all of this is they must have had an arrangement prior to the start of the comp. They must have both agreed. They must have played well and won. Then one person somewhere along the way wanted more or someone must have gotten into someone's ear.

 

I can guarantee you no matter what they would have had an agreement prior to start. Who ever did not hold up there end of the agreement is in the wrong. The question is who was this?

[Joker91]

So far this year the lynch mob is out for Sergio and Kuch. Did I miss anyone and is there an official list somewhere?

[Under2hours]

So far this year the lynch mob is out for Sergio and Kuch. Did I miss anyone and is there an official list somewhere?

Why do you call it a lynch mob? Pretty derogatory.

 

Pretty simple to spot the pro-kuch MOB......

[redfirebird08]

So far this year the lynch mob is out for Sergio and Kuch. Did I miss anyone and is there an official list somewhere?

 

They can't blame anyone but themselves, especially Sergio.

[Joker91]

So far this year the lynch mob is out for Sergio and Kuch. Did I miss anyone and is there an official list somewhere?

Why do you call it a lynch mob? Pretty derogatory.

 

Pretty simple to spot the pro-kuch MOB......

 

How is it derogatory? People are acting like these guys are the worst people ever.

[redfirebird08]

So far this year the lynch mob is out for Sergio and Kuch. Did I miss anyone and is there an official list somewhere?

Why do you call it a lynch mob? Pretty derogatory.

 

Pretty simple to spot the pro-kuch MOB......

 

How is it derogatory? People are acting like these guys are the worst people ever.

 

In Kuchar's case, he makes a lot of endorsement money and part of that money is due to his "nice guy" persona. Are we supposed to pretend he's the greatest guy of all-time? The media gave him that treatment for 20 years.

[Darth Putter]

This is business, not a social group and not a real culture as contemplated by societal norms, but we won't agree on that, and that's okay.

 

How exactly did a guy who can't speak English help Kuchar win this tournament? Did he even give Kuchar yardages considering Mexico is on the Metric system?

 

 

Thoughtful questions from a guy with only 53 posts.

 

How many posts is that in Canada?

 

(And I love Canada and all its people and honestly don't even know if it is on the metric system).

 

 

Guess I didn't go out on much of a limb!

 

And who TF ever heard of the Myanmar Road?

 

It's south of Peking and east of Bombay, right next to Siam.

[deadsolid...shank]

So far this year the lynch mob is out for Sergio and Kuch. Did I miss anyone and is there an official list somewhere?

Why do you call it a lynch mob? Pretty derogatory.

 

Pretty simple to spot the pro-kuch MOB......

 

Derogatory? Really? Shall I recap for you some of the names being tossed around, in one direction I might add.

Vile, disgusting, “quality people (please note the quations so you get the full effect), and of course my personal favorite, “stupid as rocks”.

 

And you think lynch mob is bad....

[Joker91]

So far this year the lynch mob is out for Sergio and Kuch. Did I miss anyone and is there an official list somewhere?

Why do you call it a lynch mob? Pretty derogatory.

 

Pretty simple to spot the pro-kuch MOB......

 

How is it derogatory? People are acting like these guys are the worst people ever.

 

In Kuchar's case, he makes a lot of endorsement money and part of that money is due to his "nice guy" persona. Are we supposed to pretend he's the greatest guy of all-time? The media gave him that treatment for 20 years.

 

I'm in the "I don't give a crap" crowd. I'm laughing at all you making a big deal about this.

[widow-maker]

There's not much doubt that Kucher was being cheap. He's not alone. Tiger has a history of being cheap. So does Michael Jordan. Warren Buffet. Leonardo DiCaprio. Make of them what you will. There are cheap people in the world and yet those same people can be very generous at times with their foundations. Who knows how their minds work. Kuch will have to live with what some people now think about him. The tip was his to give, as it was above and beyond the agreed upon amount. He chose to go cheap. That's his prerogative. Now he'll live with some fallout. It doesn't make him a bad person as he's shown through some of his charity work that there's a part of him that's giving. Hard to discern how some people think. Always has been

[redfirebird08]

I'm in the "I don't give a crap" crowd. I'm laughing at all you making a big deal about this.

 

Ha, fair enough. It is pretty silly. :lol:

[deadsolid...shank]

Serious question here, for both sides. Setting aside how you feel about the amount of the payment (if you can do that for a moment)

 

Initially, do you believe both parties, initially, parted ways satisfied? Especially, and answer honestly, do you think Tucan was satisfied with the payment.

 

If Gillis doesn’t get involved, does the caddie ever say anything, or feel he was shortchanged?

 

If you believe that thinking Kuchar is cheap is akin to thinking he's one of the "worst people ever," I don't know what to tell you.

 

We're talking about a pro golfer's actions on a golf board. We are not lumping him in with Jeffrey Dahmer or Hitler.

 

You mean other vile and disgusting people?

 

I think I’ve only heard of one other group of people described as vile......people that wear jeans on the course. If anyone wants to read an epic thread, dig that baby up!

[Hawkeye77]

Heres a question.

 

Lets say you, for whatever reason, are carrying a shopping bag with $1.3MM in cash.

 

And you forget it under your table at McDonalds.

 

Somebody finds it and returns it to you.

 

How much would you give them as a reward?

 

Me? Personally? $100,000.

 

I might give them something, but $100,000? Yikes. To quote from the dark side, "keep your hands off my sack!"

 

A coupon to a place where they can get a proper hot cup of coffee to start - then we'll see.

 

The money was GONE. If the wrong person finds it, you get zero.

 

Yes, $100,000, assuming I didn't need every cent of it to pay my bookie....

 

Not doubting you - we are ever lucky enough to play, I'm hoping you leave your favorite hybrid by a green and I find it! Gotta be worth a $10 tip!

[jj9000]

I'm just here to see if I can find some plaid shorts.

 

Anyone know where to get some cool plaid shorts?

 

 

 

<shuffles around duffel bag for selfie-stick>

[redfirebird08]

If you believe that thinking Kuchar is cheap is akin to thinking he's one of the "worst people ever," I don't know what to tell you.

 

We're talking about a pro golfer's actions on a golf board. We are not lumping him in with Jeffrey Dahmer or Hitler.

 

Hypocrisy is one of those things that can put some rough chinks in the armor. Kuchar always has a smile on his face and seems nice in interviews, etc. Media has always been very positive about him through the years. If he wanted to keep up that image, he didn't have to be the ultra cheapskate in this situation.