"Carts due in by 8pm!"

[deadsolid...shank]

I’ve been working part time at one of local munis here this summer (makes the golf a lot more affordable!). We tell people carts need to be in by dusk. I think that’s fair, let’s face it, you can’t see the ball anymore anyway (which means you also can’t see what you might be running into driving around the course).

 

If someone complains they’re not getting their monies worth from the discounted twilight fee (which Is less than half) I tell them, you can walk and play as long as you like.

 

Every night, at least one group pushes it and the rangers have to go out and tell them to head in. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with that policy, that’s their right to do so. But it is the policy and people need to follow it. If they don’t like it, simply choose another course when playing at those times.

[smashdn]

Moral of the story, if you allow the rules to be bent they will be broken. If you say 8:00, you might get them all in by 8:30. If you really want them all in by 8:30 you have to hedge to 8:00 and enforce it. Without enforcement the rules get bent and broken.

[DZClark]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @DZClark said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > You could have done your little girl an even bigger life-long favor by introducing her to golf as a walking game.

> >

> > That was 3 weeks ago when she got her first push cart...hot but she loves walking.

>

> Now that's what I'm talking about!

>

> I wish someone had introduced me to golf (walking) at an early age. Half a lifetime of it has done me a world of good but never having gotten out of shape to start with would have been even better.

 

Monday evenings are the best. The course is closed, so it is our own little playground for about an hour. We walk 2-3 holes, look for turtles and then have a contest to see who can guess what the yardage is on sprinkler heads before we get to them.

I will say. golf was a game meant to be walked. There is nothing better than being the last people on the course late in the day. Either with my kids or by myself, there is something tranquil about late evenings on the golf course.

I get it's hot, we are out of shape and the cart revenue keeps the rounds somewhat affordable, but I would love to have a caddie program at our club. Give me a jr who is looking to make a few bucks during the summer and I would walk almost all the time.

[DZClark]

> @bigred90gt said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > You could have done your little girl an even bigger life-long favor by introducing her to golf as a walking game.

> Just curious - where do you live?

>

> I love walking a golf course, but around here (southeast Texas coast), the heat can be downright oppressive. During the winter months, or spring when it's still a tolerable temperature, I'll gladly walk when I can convince the others in my group to do so as well. Mid summer when it's north of 100 degrees with so much humidity the air feels wet and hot, not so much.

>

 

We are in DFW area, Lantana. It is miserably hot most days. They do a 4:30-5:30 kids lessons and we usually try to walk from 10 through the green on 13. If the developers of the community had known how out of shape I was, they would have made it all downhill, but dang if they didn't put a hill between 10 and the house.

 

She loves it though, so I will push on.

[Murphy76]

> @dlygrisse said:

> > @Murphy76 said:

> > Cval-

> >

> > Again, read my point.

> >

> > I was commenting on unfair abuse of workers in the service industry, that you seem to be displaying. "If you don't like the job, quit" summarizes what I was pointing towards. Why should someone have to quit their *skilled* profession because management allows them to be abused for tips. Is that your definition of their jobs?

> >

> > FOR HIRE:

> >

> > SOMEONE TO ACCEPT

> >

> > > @dlygrisse said:

> > > > @Murphy76 said:

> > > > > @golfgirlrobin said:

> > > > > > @Murphy76 said:

> > > > > > > @a_crook said:

> > > > > > > > @Roody said:

> > > > > > > > Why should the pro shop staff have to wait around all evening for you to bring the cart in whenever you please?

> > > > > > > Uh, because it's your job and you're in a service industry?

> > > > > > > That's part of the job. Golfers want to play as long as they can, and should be able to. Grow the game.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That sort of response makes me see red.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Being in the 'service industry' does not grant people the right to treat you poorly. Regardless of the club policy/rules issue, just because you pay for something does not grant you the right to abuse the staff. While 'abuse' is a strong word, taking someone else's time because of your own selfishness and disregard for rules is unacceptable. They have lives and schedules like anyone else.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That type of thinking is behind people abusing waiters because "its' their job to take abuse". Do you show up at a restaurant and expect service 10 minutes before the kitchen closes?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am not disputing whether the club's rule is right or wrong. I dispute the attitude that it is ok to abuse someone else's time just because they are in the 'service industry'.

> > > > >

> > > > > No one said anything about abusing anyone. No one is advocating treating anyone poorly. The point was that management ought to understand that summertime means late play and schedule workers accordingly. That’s it.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Again, I wasn't debating the courses' policy or practices. That wasn't my issue.

> > > >

> > > > My beef was with the idea that "they should suck it up because they work in the "service industry", and that they should just donate their time and lives to "Grow the Game".

> > >

> > > It’s the job you sign up for, don’t like it, work in a bank. Try working in a restaurant, the cart barn guys might be coming in for a drink after they put the carts up. Guess what, it’s fhe bartenders job to serve them, sometimes till 2:00 am.

> > >

> > > But yes, it’s the service industry, it’s about serving others for a paycheck.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Again, I am not debating club practices or employee responsibilities.

> >

> > I am condemning the attitude that people in the service industry are somehow beneath them. They are performing a job, and should be treated with thought and respect. I loathe the attitude of "If they are serving me, then therefore they are beneath me".

> >

> > That was my main point, apparently not made clear. My bad.

> >

>

> My point is, this isn't "unfair abuse" not even close, this is just asking someone to do the job you hired them to do. These are great jobs for many people, especially young kids who need summer jobs etc. This is nothing more than youu trying to be a SJW.

>

>

 

I retire in defeat. I was not trying to be a SJW (had to look that up). I work in the service industry (sort-of) and was projecting my own frustrations from un-reasonably abusive clients at me. I give....

[Hilltopper413]

> @CaseyC said:

> > @dlygrisse said:

>

> > My point is, this isn't "unfair abuse" not even close, this is just asking someone to do the job you hired them to do. ...

> >

>

> The job they were hired to do has start times, and ending times. They were not hired to work outside those times

 

I worked as a cart boy in college at both a public course and a private club. Afternoon shifts did not have stated ending times. It was always 1:00 to close or something similar. It was known up front that afternoon shifts would end when the last cart was in, cleaned, and put away. Some days that was 7:00, well before dark. Others it was 9:30, after dark. The shift did not have a stated end time. It was simply when the work was done. And it was never an issue. We all knew that was part of the job.

[Steele47]

My first job was working the cart barn at an Air Force Base golf course. Great memories of the sun going down waiting on the last carts. Hit balls on the range and even got out to play a few holes when our other duties were done. Snuck a few beers etc.. Being in a hurry to clock out was fairly rare.

[s1mZ]

> @larrybud said:

> We do play somewhere else. Here in MI right now you can play til 9:30. If some course tells me I have to be off by 8, see ya, enjoy your diminished revenue. We are discussing how stupid of a policy it is.

 

Spot on. I think like many threads that go over multiple pages, most people have lost the original argument made by the OP. The debate is about "is this policy reasonable / stupid in summer", and not about changing times because OP said so.

I stand by my view - the club's policy was informed by whatever factors. If they wont change or realize they may be potentially losing revenue or future members, or if they are happy with this status quo, the solution is to return carts on time / walk / find another course or time. If course is walkable, I am walking definitely. I get to practice several shots, enjoy the air and fitness.

[cxx]

Seems short sighted for a course to artificially limit play during the summer months. Especially in northern latitudes where the season is so short.

 

Something else about this discussion seems odd. The cart guys are usually kids or guys trading off working for a little cash and practice/playing privileges. It's not really a career move, at least not a good one.

[North Butte]

> @cxx said:

> Something else about this discussion seems odd. The cart guys are usually kids or guys trading off working for a little cash and practice/playing privileges. It's not really a career move, at least not a good one.

 

At our club one of the salaried staff is always present whenever the "kids" are there wrangling the carts. Just as matter of policy they don't lock up and leave one or two high school/college aged part timers hang around continuing to work unsupervised.

 

But it's a moot point since our members are free to walk after carts are in, even if they want to be out there for an hour past dark. Heck, we even show up and walk on Mondays when the course is "closed".

[umassgolfer]

> @kg92lefty said:

> > @umassgolfer said:

> > Also - there is a specific example this thread reminded me of.

> >

> > There is a golden-age course that the county purchased and recently put a ton of money into. Relatively reasonable, especially to walk as I prefer. Fun layout. But I won't play it anymore. They lock the gates at 8:00, 8:30 during peak of summer - carts due 20 minutes earlier. And by "lock the gates" I mean the gates to the street from the parking lot. So if you're walking, you better budget an extra 25 minutes or so to walk back in, change shoes, etc. I've never really tested this policy but have seen the staff standing by the gate 10 minutes before their "lock-up" time and based on how they operate the rest of the time, don't really want to call their bluff.

> >

> > Since I live in the county next to this course, I cannot make tee times in advance, and as such the course is pretty much only useful to me as a last minute/twilight round.

> >

> >** To make things worse, this course's twilight rate kicks in at 4 or 5 depending on the season**, and cart fee is not discounted regardless of when you take it out. So, the last hour or so of standard rate tee times are pretty much guaranteed not to finish, but pay full rate.

>

> Twilight is not guaranteed to finish. Or at least that's how it started out, now you have super twilight or such.

 

Correct, but if you tee off at 4:30 in the summer, you're paying full rate. And likely only finishing 15 holes, since there is no marshalling of the course for pace of play and a 4.5-5+ hour round is not uncommon. The fact that you are likely to get pulled off the course early, with daylight left, after a slow pace of play, after paying full rate, regardless of whether you walk or ride, is no good.

 

Maybe a twilight/super twilight distinction would help, but seems like it would behoove the course to just pay a few employees an extra half hour and not take the cut on greens fees.

[bigred90gt]

> @umassgolfer said:

> > @kg92lefty said:

> > > @umassgolfer said:

> > > Also - there is a specific example this thread reminded me of.

> > >

> > > There is a golden-age course that the county purchased and recently put a ton of money into. Relatively reasonable, especially to walk as I prefer. Fun layout. But I won't play it anymore. They lock the gates at 8:00, 8:30 during peak of summer - carts due 20 minutes earlier. And by "lock the gates" I mean the gates to the street from the parking lot. So if you're walking, you better budget an extra 25 minutes or so to walk back in, change shoes, etc. I've never really tested this policy but have seen the staff standing by the gate 10 minutes before their "lock-up" time and based on how they operate the rest of the time, don't really want to call their bluff.

> > >

> > > Since I live in the county next to this course, I cannot make tee times in advance, and as such the course is pretty much only useful to me as a last minute/twilight round.

> > >

> > >** To make things worse, this course's twilight rate kicks in at 4 or 5 depending on the season**, and cart fee is not discounted regardless of when you take it out. So, the last hour or so of standard rate tee times are pretty much guaranteed not to finish, but pay full rate.

> >

> > Twilight is not guaranteed to finish. Or at least that's how it started out, now you have super twilight or such.

>

> Correct, but if you tee off at 4:30 in the summer, you're paying full rate. And likely only finishing 15 holes, since there is no marshalling of the course for pace of play and a 4.5-5+ hour round is not uncommon. The fact that you are likely to get pulled off the course early, with daylight left, after a slow pace of play, after paying full rate, regardless of whether you walk or ride, is no good.

>

> Maybe a twilight/super twilight distinction would help, but seems like it would behoove the course to just pay a few employees an extra half hour and not take the cut on greens fees.

Where would you be paying full rate at 4:30pm? Around here, during summer hours, twilight starts anywhere from 2:30-3:30, depending on the course. If 4.30pm was full rate and 5 hour round, no one would play around here.

[umassgolfer]

> @bigred90gt said:

> > @umassgolfer said:

> > > @kg92lefty said:

> > > > @umassgolfer said:

> > > > Also - there is a specific example this thread reminded me of.

> > > >

> > > > There is a golden-age course that the county purchased and recently put a ton of money into. Relatively reasonable, especially to walk as I prefer. Fun layout. But I won't play it anymore. They lock the gates at 8:00, 8:30 during peak of summer - carts due 20 minutes earlier. And by "lock the gates" I mean the gates to the street from the parking lot. So if you're walking, you better budget an extra 25 minutes or so to walk back in, change shoes, etc. I've never really tested this policy but have seen the staff standing by the gate 10 minutes before their "lock-up" time and based on how they operate the rest of the time, don't really want to call their bluff.

> > > >

> > > > Since I live in the county next to this course, I cannot make tee times in advance, and as such the course is pretty much only useful to me as a last minute/twilight round.

> > > >

> > > >** To make things worse, this course's twilight rate kicks in at 4 or 5 depending on the season**, and cart fee is not discounted regardless of when you take it out. So, the last hour or so of standard rate tee times are pretty much guaranteed not to finish, but pay full rate.

> > >

> > > Twilight is not guaranteed to finish. Or at least that's how it started out, now you have super twilight or such.

> >

> > Correct, but if you tee off at 4:30 in the summer, you're paying full rate. And likely only finishing 15 holes, since there is no marshalling of the course for pace of play and a 4.5-5+ hour round is not uncommon. The fact that you are likely to get pulled off the course early, with daylight left, after a slow pace of play, after paying full rate, regardless of whether you walk or ride, is no good.

> >

> > Maybe a twilight/super twilight distinction would help, but seems like it would behoove the course to just pay a few employees an extra half hour and not take the cut on greens fees.

> Where would you be paying full rate at 4:30pm? Around here, during summer hours, twilight starts anywhere from 2:30-3:30, depending on the course. If 4.30pm was full rate and 5 hour round, no one would play around here.

 

Like I said, this is an example of one specific course, and why I don't get out there anymore. Because I don't want to pay full rate and not finish. County card holders pay reduced rate (I am not in county so not eligible) - makes it like $35 or so to walk vs. $55. At that rate I would feel more OK with it, and I assume others are the same. It's their course and their decision and clearly it works for them or they'd change their policy, but it means I (and many others) will not play there.

 

There are simply not many public courses in the close-by part of the NYC suburbs I live in, so options are very limited. There are more options, though not as interesting layouts, once you get to a 45 minute drive away. If I can't leave my house until 3:30, the 15 minute drive would be a much more attractive option to the extra half hour drive and hoping to get out immediately.

[Ferguson]

Saw this article and thought of this thread. To those of you feeling like the course should "do something special for you" and stay open with an employee on staff while you finish your round "at your leisure" regardless of hours or rules - you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

 

 

 

 

[dlygrisse]

> @Ferguson said:

> Saw this article and thought of this thread. To those of you feeling like the course should "do something special for you" and stay open with an employee on staff while you finish your round "at your leisure" regardless of hours or rules - you can't have your cake and eat it too.

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

Not sure what this has to do with carts, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[North Butte]

> @dlygrisse said:

> > @Ferguson said:

> > Saw this article and thought of this thread. To those of you feeling like the course should "do something special for you" and stay open with an employee on staff while you finish your round "at your leisure" regardless of hours or rules - you can't have your cake and eat it too.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Not sure what this has to do with carts, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

Somebody probably told this woman that and she was like, "Oh yeah? I'll show you I can do it". But she couldn't.

 

Sometimes what your Daddy always told you turns out to be right.

[cval]

> @Ferguson said:

> Saw this article and thought of this thread. To those of you feeling like the course should "do something special for you" and stay open with an employee on staff while you finish your round "at your leisure" regardless of hours or rules - you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I am amazed how somebody getting paid to do a job thinks they are asking for something special. Whatever happened to the customer is always right. It is when courses, businesses etc forget the reason they are in business is because of the paying customer. The business can have any policy they want but the customer may never return.

 

Who posted about customers coming into a restaurant right before close and expecting a full menu. Why would they not you are open. If I was the owner I would want you serving those customers. You bend over backwards for them you have a customer for life. You tell them to leave they will never return.

Costco does so well because of their great return policy, trying to return something before Costco was an act of god. (Most of those companies with strict return policies are now out of business).

 

[North Butte]

If you want to be Costco, that's the kind of thing you do.

 

If you want to be a fine restaurant with the best food in town, impeccable service and a relaxed vibe you don't necessarily need to act like Costco.

[Ferguson]

> @cval said:

> > @Ferguson said:

> > Saw this article and thought of this thread. To those of you feeling like the course should "do something special for you" and stay open with an employee on staff while you finish your round "at your leisure" regardless of hours or rules - you can't have your cake and eat it too.

> I am amazed how somebody getting paid to do a job thinks they are asking for something special. Whatever happened to the customer is always right. It is when courses, businesses etc forget the reason they are in business is because of the paying customer. The business can have any policy they want but the customer may never return.

>

> Who posted about customers coming into a restaurant right before close and expecting a full menu. Why would they not you are open. If I was the owner I would want you serving those customers. You bend over backwards for them you have a customer for life. You tell them to leave they will never return.

> Costco does so well because of their great return policy, trying to return something before Costco was an act of god. (Most of those companies with strict return policies are now out of business).

>

 

The customer is not always right. That's a fallacy. Most customers know nothing about business unless it interferes with their day.

 

Businesses thrive due to operational health measured by EBIT. If a business is smart, it knows the return for that single person or a few people and a cart on a golf course at night is not worth the risk.

You think it's about an hourly person "hanging around" until your done playing, you're mistaken.

 

It's a liability threat. How well would that business do if a guy had a golf cart out after dark, drove over a steep bunker, and went end-over-end killing himself?

 

The judge would ask, "does your golf course have policy about carts posted conspicuously?"

No Judge, "the customer is always right......that's our policy."

Then the judge says, "well, your customer is dead thanks to your policy - I rule for the plaintiff."

 

 

We have a small restaurant near our home that opened three years ago. It's outstanding, period. When they achieved 5 stars on Yelp, the place went nuts. Do you know what the owner did?

He made a new policy - closed on Sundays and they close all other nights at 9:00 PM. They don't do grub hub and they only do takeout until 7 pm. The customers are still coming. The demand increased.

 

 

Costco has a great return policy but it doesn't need to be open 24/7 and succumb to every customer request to support their customer base.

[North Butte]

> @Ferguson said:

> We have a small restaurant near our home that opened three years ago. It's outstanding, period. When they achieved 5 stars on Yelp, the place went nuts. Do you know what the owner did?

> He made a new policy - closed on Sundays and they close all other nights at 9:00 PM. They don't do grub hub and they only do takeout until 7 pm. The customers are still coming. The demand increased.

>

>

> Costco has a great return policy but it doesn't need to be open 24/7 and succumb to every customer request to support their customer base.

 

I've visited a couple times over the years at a pretty high-end English golf club. Not going to name them but the principle is pretty common in that echelon of clubs...

 

Every single person from the club secretary to the clubhouse manager to the golf pro to the front line staff to the (few) members I spoke to and played golf with were just fabulously welcoming to a visitor there for a few days golf. I am a total nobody high handicapper but I can't imagine they treated me any less well than they would some notable guest, really. One day I was even hosted for an extra nine holes by a member without paying a green fee.

 

Except one day between rounds I waltzed into the bar, where I'd been ordering beer every day, and unknowingly stepped up to the "Member" side of the bar. The bartender just glared at me for a moment and then she stiffly pointed to the tiny writing that said "<-----Members ||| Visitors----->". I was standing a foot onto the Members side and could not even merit a single word of explaination.

 

I apologized, stepped to the right a couple paces, asked for a pint of Bitter which she gladly poured and told me to enjoy my round.

 

I guess a typical GolfWRX'er would have been so offended by being "put in his place" (literally) and declare that such a club was terribly unwelcoming to visitors. When in fact, the opposite is true. They just have rules that they aren't about to see violated for any reason.

[cardoustie]

sorry

I have to say again ... if you are A). a private club B). in a short season and C) members play large to play there .... then a proper customer service obligation is to stay later, one back shop kid and one asst pro costs next to nothing operationally

There are different factors at play at different facilities of course

We're not as litigious as the USA as well

YMMV

PS related to this we used to have some limited hours with range closures ... the members had this changed

[North Butte]

I guess in my own way I'm as snobbish as some of the people taking offense at carts being in before dark. I'd never in a million years belong to a club where I can't walk whenever I like. So the whole cart-closing-time thing seems much ado about nothing.

[Ferguson]

> @cardoustie said:

> sorry

> I have to say again ... if you are A). a private club B). in a short season and C) members play large to play there .... then a proper customer service obligation is to stay later, one back shop kid and one asst pro costs next to nothing operationally

> There are different factors at play at different facilities of course

> We're not as litigious as the USA as well

> YMMV

> PS related to this we used to have some limited hours with range closures ... the members had this changed

 

Okay - short season. I get it.

Paying large is a choice.

Private club - that's a matter for the Pro or GM to decide.

 

My club allows the last cart to go out at 6:30. There is no written rule but every darn cart is back by 8:30.

 

Reason: Our weekday "afternoon cart guy" is an older gentleman. He is a wonderful guy who carries a smile and pleasant greeting no matter the time or circumstance. He would gladly hang around as late as needed but the people who know him are generous with tips and respectful of his time. The hardcore members walk their evening rounds.

[deadsolid...shank]

> @cval said:

> > @Ferguson said:

> > Saw this article and thought of this thread. To those of you feeling like the course should "do something special for you" and stay open with an employee on staff while you finish your round "at your leisure" regardless of hours or rules - you can't have your cake and eat it too.

> I am amazed how somebody getting paid to do a job thinks they are asking for something special. Whatever happened to the customer is always right. It is when courses, businesses etc forget the reason they are in business is because of the paying customer. The business can have any policy they want but the customer may never return.

>

> Who posted about customers coming into a restaurant right before close and expecting a full menu. Why would they not you are open. If I was the owner I would want you serving those customers. You bend over backwards for them you have a customer for life. You tell them to leave they will never return.

> Costco does so well because of their great return policy, trying to return something before Costco was an act of god. (Most of those companies with strict return policies are now out of business).

>

 

The “customer is always right” is an outdated, and outrageously wrong statement.

 

Sorry, after having been in a private retail business for over 25 years that statement really irks me. The Wal Marts and Costco’s of the world may be able to operate by that mantra since they have gotten so big, but business conducted at the grass roots or local level eventually have to be able to say no, or they won’t survive what the customer always being right is going to cost them. Because the saying that really applies to the customer is “give them an inch and they’l

 

> @cardoustie said:

> sorry

> I have to say again ... if you are A). a private club B). in a short season and C) members play large to play there .... then a proper customer service obligation is to stay later, one back shop kid and one asst pro costs next to nothing operationally

> There are different factors at play at different facilities of course

> We're not as litigious as the USA as well

> YMMV

> PS related to this we used to have some limited hours with range closures ... the members had this changed

 

This is just how I view that scenario Cardy,

Staying open late isn’t customer service. That’s just a set policy. Set hours.

 

If one of the assistants says, “sure Uncle Cardy, stay out a little later tonight and finish, I’ll wait”, that’s providing over and above what is expected. That’s customer service. But they could also set a open later policy and be real asshats about it. They’re open late, but the customer service is still poor.

I know, it’s probably nothing more than semantics. It’s just a topic that hits close to home. When customers start getting everything their own way, pretty soon you have people like the Wal Mart lady mentioned above. There are no limits to what they’ll do or ask for.

 

[stormbringer]

I have worked off and on in the golf industry. I've worked as a 2nd assistant, starter, fitter, repair shop, salesman and did the cart/range thing.

 

We always made it clear that carts were due back at sunset. I can tell you in the 2 seasons I did carts at a muni March-October 3-5 pm shifts per week I had to go looking for drunk folks or idiots 10 times each year well after dark. The idiots would get a cart stuck in wet or deep rough. We even had three carts driven into ponds!

 

We have way to many folks who abuse rented carts and rented cars for that matter!

[cval]

> @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > @cval said:

> > > @Ferguson said:

> > > Saw this article and thought of this thread. To those of you feeling like the course should "do something special for you" and stay open with an employee on staff while you finish your round "at your leisure" regardless of hours or rules - you can't have your cake and eat it too.

> > I am amazed how somebody getting paid to do a job thinks they are asking for something special. Whatever happened to the customer is always right. It is when courses, businesses etc forget the reason they are in business is because of the paying customer. The business can have any policy they want but the customer may never return.

> >

> > Who posted about customers coming into a restaurant right before close and expecting a full menu. Why would they not you are open. If I was the owner I would want you serving those customers. You bend over backwards for them you have a customer for life. You tell them to leave they will never return.

> > Costco does so well because of their great return policy, trying to return something before Costco was an act of god. (Most of those companies with strict return policies are now out of business).

> >

>

> The “customer is always right” is an outdated, and outrageously wrong statement.

>

> Sorry, after having been in a private retail business for over 25 years that statement really irks me. The Wal Marts and Costco’s of the world may be able to operate by that mantra since they have gotten so big, but business conducted at the grass roots or local level eventually have to be able to say no, or they won’t survive what the customer always being right is going to cost them. Because the saying that really applies to the customer is “give them an inch and they’l

 

I feel sorry for you if your that jaded. The reason you go to a small retail shop is the extra or personalized service you will receive. I never say do not say no but instituting policy because of the minority is bad business. An oldie but still a good book is raving fans (should check it out). Shoot it is even worse today with all these reviews sites one upset customer can really cost you.

 

 

 

 

[MountainKing]

If you're paying full rate at 4:30pm, or beyond, then that's on you. If the course doesn't have a twilight rate then go find one that does. I've never been to a course where the Twilight rate is a promise that you'll finish 18.

 

Having worked at a course, almost every night there was somebody who insisted on staying on the course with the cart until after sunset and well after every other human being has left the place. The last year I worked there they implemented a similar policy but it was due to safety, there's too much you can't see on the course when it's dark. Unfortunately walkers caused the same problem, also for safety reasons employees were not able to leave until the course was clear. I never got it, how is it any fun playing golf when you can't see?

[MountainKing]

> @cardoustie said:

> sorry

> I have to say again ... if you are A). a private club B). in a short season and C) members play large to play there .... then a proper customer service obligation is to stay later, one back shop kid and one asst pro costs next to nothing operationally

> There are different factors at play at different facilities of course

> We're not as litigious as the USA as well

> YMMV

> PS related to this we used to have some limited hours with range closures ... the members had this changed

 

Nobody is obligated to do anything other than the standards they want to put forth, just like you aren't obligated to spend money at a place where you don't like the set standards. Unless there's a gun at your head telling you how to spend your money, if you don't like the course rules go find a course that has rules you do like.

[dokex]

I worked at a Baltimore city muni course some years ago. If you didn't have your cart in by dark, you were risking homicide in the ghetto.

 

 

[deadsolid...shank]

> @cval said:

> > @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > > @cval said:

> > > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > Saw this article and thought of this thread. To those of you feeling like the course should "do something special for you" and stay open with an employee on staff while you finish your round "at your leisure" regardless of hours or rules - you can't have your cake and eat it too.

> > > I am amazed how somebody getting paid to do a job thinks they are asking for something special. Whatever happened to the customer is always right. It is when courses, businesses etc forget the reason they are in business is because of the paying customer. The business can have any policy they want but the customer may never return.

> > >

> > > Who posted about customers coming into a restaurant right before close and expecting a full menu. Why would they not you are open. If I was the owner I would want you serving those customers. You bend over backwards for them you have a customer for life. You tell them to leave they will never return.

> > > Costco does so well because of their great return policy, trying to return something before Costco was an act of god. (Most of those companies with strict return policies are now out of business).

> > >

> >

> > The “customer is always right” is an outdated, and outrageously wrong statement.

> >

> > Sorry, after having been in a private retail business for over 25 years that statement really irks me. The Wal Marts and Costco’s of the world may be able to operate by that mantra since they have gotten so big, but business conducted at the grass roots or local level eventually have to be able to say no, or they won’t survive what the customer always being right is going to cost them. Because the saying that really applies to the customer is “give them an inch and they’l

>

> I feel sorry for you if your that jaded. The reason you go to a small retail shop is the extra or personalized service you will receive. I never say do not say no but instituting policy because of the minority is bad business. An oldie but still a good book is raving fans (should check it out). Shoot it is even worse today with all these reviews sites one upset customer can really cost you.

>

>

>

>

I’m not jaded, just very honest about how it is (at least my experience) out there in the business world. I agree, word of mouth is by far the best advertising, and it works both ways. But you still have to draw the line somewhere, because if you don’t say no, they’ll just keep asking for more.

And I’ve found that most people are able to look objectively at on line reviews. Most times when someone blasts an establishment on line (when the negative is a large minority), they make it pretty evident that they have an ax to grind.

 

>