Any new TM drivers in the works?

[SUPERG]

> @noodle3872 said:

> Was watching TXG’s live session from this past Monday. Ian answered a question about which club was a disappointing performer and he mentioned the Speed Foam injected M5/M6 drivers were slower ball speed wise than expected. He said he expects the TM 2020 drivers to be much quicker off the face. I’ve been super happy with my M6’s performance so this new release will be one I will be watching closely and be eager to test against my M6.

 

> @noodle3872 said:

> Was watching TXG’s live session from this past Monday. Ian answered a question about which club was a disappointing performer and he mentioned the Speed Foam injected M5/M6 drivers were slower ball speed wise than expected. He said he expects the TM 2020 drivers to be much quicker off the face. I’ve been super happy with my M6’s performance so this new release will be one I will be watching closely and be eager to test against my M6.

 

Funny he said that, some of his videos he had his longest shots with TM gear. Seemed like the ball speed was either faster or if not tied with the other big OEMs.

[GoGoErky]

> @Valtiel said:

> > @Jacked_Loft said:

> > Another thing you have to consider is that it costs a manufacturer almost the same, if not more to make a "watered down" shaft as a normal one.

> >

> > The term "Made For" means that a certain shafts profile has been tuned to work better with a certain head in an OEM's lineup. The adjusted profile still has to be designed, engineered and produced in a separate run from the original which adds to production costs.

> >

> > So a Made For shaft could really be more expensive for an OEM than using the original shaft. I think the reason people find this negative, is that people who've played the Made For shaft (and liked it) suddenly find the after market shaft different or vice versa.

> >

> > And just another point to ponder:

> >

> > If a driver heads performance is reined in by the rules, the best way to sell YOUR sticks is by offering it with a proper shaft, with little or no upcharge.

> >

> > Like getting air conditioning in your new car for free.

>

> I disagree with the "shaft has to be tuned" part. I HIHGLY doubt that any such thing is happening and there is no way that the shaft would be more expensive for the OEM as it would completely defeat the purpose. "Made for" shafts are produced overseas with cheaper materials to meet a price point, bottom line.

 

When’s company requests a certain design aspect from a shaft company the shaft company has to figure out the way to make that design tweak, test it and then send it off for production. This may require the use of different strength prepeg, maybe a different mandrel to build the shaft off of, different flag lay out. I’ve had the chance to meet with a couple shaft companies and the same materials used in the “real deal” are used in the “made for.”

 

Everyone thinks the non handcrafted shafts were somehow different from the ones handcrafted in SD. They aren’t and only difference was where and by how they were rolled.

[RodrigoNicely]

> @Valtiel said:

> > @Rig14Port said:

> > > @driveandputtmachine said:

> > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> > > > >

> > > > > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

> > > >

> > > > So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

> > > >

> > > > Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

> > >

> > > So the Ventus sells for 350 on golfworks and other places.

> >

> > It could very likely be a real deal shaft and they may be taking just above break even to get them in the hands of the mass market. My perception of Fuji is that they are a low cost OEM stock shaft manufacturer for secondary product lines (think M6). If they want to penetrate the high end market they need to get more high end products in the hands of high level golfers to start building their brand. I think they tried to do this with ATMOS but there wasn't enough tour adoption of the ATMOS line to attract buyers... Now that Ventus is in the hands of a couple familiar faces on tour it's time to strike.

> >

>

> Fuji is and has been high end for decades now. Lots of tour guys used the Atmos and tons used the Motore Speeders, even still today.

 

 

 

This is such a laughable post. Fujikura a low cost shaft manufacturer. Jesus man some of this stuff that comes out around here is ridiculous

[BCC1898]

> @RodrigoNicely said:

> > @Valtiel said:

> > > @Rig14Port said:

> > > > @driveandputtmachine said:

> > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

> > > > >

> > > > > So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

> > > >

> > > > So the Ventus sells for 350 on golfworks and other places.

> > >

> > > It could very likely be a real deal shaft and they may be taking just above break even to get them in the hands of the mass market. My perception of Fuji is that they are a low cost OEM stock shaft manufacturer for secondary product lines (think M6). If they want to penetrate the high end market they need to get more high end products in the hands of high level golfers to start building their brand. I think they tried to do this with ATMOS but there wasn't enough tour adoption of the ATMOS line to attract buyers... Now that Ventus is in the hands of a couple familiar faces on tour it's time to strike.

> > >

> >

> > Fuji is and has been high end for decades now. Lots of tour guys used the Atmos and tons used the Motore Speeders, even still today.

>

>

>

> This is such a laughable post. Fujikura a low cost shaft manufacturer. Jesus man some of this stuff that comes out around here is ridiculous

 

When I think of low-end graphite OEMs, the first one I think of is Fujikura. Sure they’ve had a few winners, but it’s largely junk.

[ignitewvu]

> @RodrigoNicely said:

> > @Valtiel said:

> > > @Rig14Port said:

> > > > @driveandputtmachine said:

> > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

> > > > >

> > > > > So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

> > > >

> > > > So the Ventus sells for 350 on golfworks and other places.

> > >

> > > It could very likely be a real deal shaft and they may be taking just above break even to get them in the hands of the mass market. My perception of Fuji is that they are a low cost OEM stock shaft manufacturer for secondary product lines (think M6). If they want to penetrate the high end market they need to get more high end products in the hands of high level golfers to start building their brand. I think they tried to do this with ATMOS but there wasn't enough tour adoption of the ATMOS line to attract buyers... Now that Ventus is in the hands of a couple familiar faces on tour it's time to strike.

> > >

> >

> > Fuji is and has been high end for decades now. Lots of tour guys used the Atmos and tons used the Motore Speeders, even still today.

>

>

>

> This is such a laughable post. Fujikura a low cost shaft manufacturer. Jesus man some of this stuff that comes out around here is ridiculous

 

For some reason there is so MUCH HATE for Fujikura on this forum & I "Think" I know why.

 

Right now their products are top notch way more innovative than what MC is doing & they are using MC materials!!!. In fact MC hasn't come out with anything seriously causing Buzz in 2+ seasons.

[mrmikeac]

> @ignitewvu said:

> > @RodrigoNicely said:

> > > @Valtiel said:

> > > > @Rig14Port said:

> > > > > @driveandputtmachine said:

> > > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > > > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

> > > > >

> > > > > So the Ventus sells for 350 on golfworks and other places.

> > > >

> > > > It could very likely be a real deal shaft and they may be taking just above break even to get them in the hands of the mass market. My perception of Fuji is that they are a low cost OEM stock shaft manufacturer for secondary product lines (think M6). If they want to penetrate the high end market they need to get more high end products in the hands of high level golfers to start building their brand. I think they tried to do this with ATMOS but there wasn't enough tour adoption of the ATMOS line to attract buyers... Now that Ventus is in the hands of a couple familiar faces on tour it's time to strike.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Fuji is and has been high end for decades now. Lots of tour guys used the Atmos and tons used the Motore Speeders, even still today.

> >

> >

> >

> > This is such a laughable post. Fujikura a low cost shaft manufacturer. Jesus man some of this stuff that comes out around here is ridiculous

>

> For some reason there is so MUCH HATE for Fujikura on this forum & I "Think" I know why.

>

> Right now their products are top notch way more innovative than what MC is doing & they are using MC materials!!!. In fact MC hasn't come out with anything seriously causing Buzz in 2+ seasons.

 

Personally I’ve had the most success with Fuji in the past, and I’ll have to say the Fuji Pro 2.0 has been the best all around shaft I’ve ever used. Fuji makes outstanding products and I would put them right up there on my list with Graphite Design, not even a huge fan of MC, but the Tensei orange is phenomenal

[Rig14Port]

> @GC70 said:

> > @Rig14Port said:

> > > @driveandputtmachine said:

> > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> > > > >

> > > > > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

> > > >

> > > > So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

> > > >

> > > > Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

> > >

> > > So the Ventus sells for 350 on golfworks and other places.

> >

> > It could very likely be a real deal shaft and they may be taking just above break even to get them in the hands of the mass market. My perception of Fuji is that they are a low cost OEM stock shaft manufacturer for secondary product lines (think M6). If they want to penetrate the high end market they need to get more high end products in the hands of high level golfers to start building their brand. I think they tried to do this with ATMOS but there wasn't enough tour adoption of the ATMOS line to attract buyers... Now that Ventus is in the hands of a couple familiar faces on tour it's time to strike.

> >

> The Atmos in the M6 woods was a made for, not a TS real deal.

>

 

exactly... a low cost, low end part produced by Fuji.

[driveandputtmachine]

> @RodrigoNicely said:

> > @Valtiel said:

> > > @Rig14Port said:

> > > > @driveandputtmachine said:

> > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

> > > > >

> > > > > So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

> > > >

> > > > So the Ventus sells for 350 on golfworks and other places.

> > >

> > > It could very likely be a real deal shaft and they may be taking just above break even to get them in the hands of the mass market. My perception of Fuji is that they are a low cost OEM stock shaft manufacturer for secondary product lines (think M6). If they want to penetrate the high end market they need to get more high end products in the hands of high level golfers to start building their brand. I think they tried to do this with ATMOS but there wasn't enough tour adoption of the ATMOS line to attract buyers... Now that Ventus is in the hands of a couple familiar faces on tour it's time to strike.

> > >

> >

> > Fuji is and has been high end for decades now. Lots of tour guys used the Atmos and tons used the Motore Speeders, even still today.

>

>

>

> This is such a laughable post. Fujikura a low cost shaft manufacturer. Jesus man some of this stuff that comes out around here is ridiculous

 

So I may have missed it as I pay little to no attention to what tour guys are playing as my swing and theirs have nothing in common......but, were there not any guys playing the ATMOS, I honestly do not know? I know once upon a time a bunch of tour guys played speeder shafts. Speeder from what I remember used to be a high end, high group, high price group of shafts in their time Of course shafts have become ludicrously expensive on the high end side over the last 5-10 years. Is it that for awhile Fuji made lower cost shafts or is it compared to the 700 shafts out that 350 and 250 are seen by many as junk? I know the ATMOS is 250ish with a quick scan, and the Ventus are around 350.

 

 

[Rig14Port]

> @mrmikeac said:

> > @ignitewvu said:

> > > @RodrigoNicely said:

> > > > @Valtiel said:

> > > > > @Rig14Port said:

> > > > > > @driveandputtmachine said:

> > > > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So the Ventus sells for 350 on golfworks and other places.

> > > > >

> > > > > It could very likely be a real deal shaft and they may be taking just above break even to get them in the hands of the mass market. My perception of Fuji is that they are a low cost OEM stock shaft manufacturer for secondary product lines (think M6). If they want to penetrate the high end market they need to get more high end products in the hands of high level golfers to start building their brand. I think they tried to do this with ATMOS but there wasn't enough tour adoption of the ATMOS line to attract buyers... Now that Ventus is in the hands of a couple familiar faces on tour it's time to strike.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Fuji is and has been high end for decades now. Lots of tour guys used the Atmos and tons used the Motore Speeders, even still today.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > This is such a laughable post. Fujikura a low cost shaft manufacturer. Jesus man some of this stuff that comes out around here is ridiculous

> >

> > For some reason there is so MUCH HATE for Fujikura on this forum & I "Think" I know why.

> >

> > Right now their products are top notch way more innovative than what MC is doing & they are using MC materials!!!. In fact MC hasn't come out with anything seriously causing Buzz in 2+ seasons.

>

> Personally I’ve had the most success with Fuji in the past, and I’ll have to say the Fuji Pro 2.0 has been the best all around shaft I’ve ever used. Fuji makes outstanding products and I would put them right up there on my list with Graphite Design, not even a huge fan of MC, but the Tensei orange is phenomenal

 

Guys, It all goes back to my original response. The market, of which the "all knowing GolfWRX community" makes up less than 1% of, does NOT view Fuji as a high end aftermarket shaft manufacturer. It's not saying that their products are not quality, but that they are not viewed on equal ground with MRC, Aldila, and Project X with everyday golfers. When you produce shafts like the stuff they put in the M2, M4, M6 lines you're going to get that reputation.

 

I am only presenting the idea that, if they're going to include the real deal Ventus shafts in the new TM woods, it's because they've decided as an organization that it's time to make a push at building a high end brand at retail. Likely looking to move ahead of of the three shaft manufacturers listed above. It's the only way I could see that kind of decision making sense for their business.

 

And ya'll want to talk about how good their shafts are... how many people on this forum have jumped at the upcharge Fuji Pro 2.0 or Atmos over the Tensei Pro line from a manufacturers custom list? It just isn't happening. The brand is NOT strong enough yet

[driveandputtmachine]

OK, I misunderstood your post. A WRX member is not your average golfer, that is for sure. So as far as what average golfers think, my dad is one. He has no idea what shafts are in his clubs, let alone what shafts a guy on tour plays. So to him Mitsu, Aldila, and Project X matters not at all to him. He buys clubs very seldom, He is still playing the TM Burner Plus driver. I think you are right, it is those in-betweeners that know those shafts that probably spend the most on equipment as far as a group. I personally always been a fan of UST/Mamiya shafts.

 

I haven't pushed into paying for upgraded shafts as it has not been needed for myself. I got everything I wanted out of the stock Ping Tour 65 shaft in the 400 MAX for instance. I am playing the project X graphite iron shafts as I needed graphite, and they in conjunction with the 790 heads gave me the best results.

 

As far as the ATMOS in the M5 or M6 being junk, I didn't see it. Nothing I tried at the Kingdom East (just outside of Atlanta) fit me very well at all, one of the ATMOS was my closest fit in the M5 though. I needed forgiveness more than distance.

 

Every golf shaft manufacturer wants to be in the high end retail market. Production costs aren't much different, R&D and marketing are your cost increasers there. Everyone would much rather have a shaft that cost them 25 bucks all in sell for 500 than a shaft that cost them 15 all in sell for 250. The problem is how to get there and the differing opinions on how to do it.

[SUPERG]

With all this logic, PX is also low end. EVERY OEM offers some bullshit smoke variant for the low launch player.

[Rig14Port]

> @driveandputtmachine said:

> OK, I misunderstood your post. A WRX member is not your average golfer, that is for sure. So as far as what average golfers think, my dad is one. He has no idea what shafts are in his clubs, let alone what shafts a guy on tour plays. So to him Mitsu, Aldila, and Project X matters not at all to him. He buys clubs very seldom, He is still playing the TM Burner Plus driver. I think you are right, it is those in-betweeners that know those shafts that probably spend the most on equipment as far as a group. I personally always been a fan of UST/Mamiya shafts.

>

> I haven't pushed into paying for upgraded shafts as it has not been needed for myself. I got everything I wanted out of the stock Ping Tour 65 shaft in the 400 MAX for instance. I am playing the project X graphite iron shafts as I needed graphite, and they in conjunction with the 790 heads gave me the best results.

>

> As far as the ATMOS in the M5 or M6 being junk, I didn't see it. Nothing I tried at the Kingdom East (just outside of Atlanta) fit me very well at all, one of the ATMOS was my closest fit in the M5 though. I needed forgiveness more than distance.

>

> Every golf shaft manufacturer wants to be in the high end retail market. Production costs aren't much different, R&D and marketing are your cost increasers there. Everyone would much rather have a shaft that cost them 25 bucks all in sell for 500 than a shaft that cost them 15 all in sell for 250. The problem is how to get there and the differing opinions on how to do it.

 

I fall into the category similar to you... knowledgeable about golf equipment (much more so than any of the guys I play with on a regular basis) but I'm generally not going to spend the money for tour van heads and $350 aftermarket shafts. Most of the time I'm looking at the no up-charge custom shaft options and will fit from those options to see what performs best. That said, I have dabbled in the used aftermarket shaft world - KK XT TX, Diamana TX shafts, Aldila TX's/Limited, PX HZRDUS Handcrafted, TOUR AD etc - and gamed a few of them mainly do to the s'e'x'y factor. None of them provided undeniable enough performance gains to justify the additional cost though.

 

Point is, a good way for Fuji to peak my interest in their aftermarket products of the future would be to start with a premium no up-charge shaft option in what will likely be the highest selling driver line of 2020.

 

I'd love for a shaft manufacturer to chime in on this thread to share with us where the majority of their revenue comes from - Aftermarket Sales vs. OEM Sales / High-End Spec vs. Retail Spec.

 

[getitdaily]

> @SUPERG said:

> > @noodle3872 said:

> > Was watching TXG’s live session from this past Monday. Ian answered a question about which club was a disappointing performer and he mentioned the Speed Foam injected M5/M6 drivers were slower ball speed wise than expected. He said he expects the TM 2020 drivers to be much quicker off the face. I’ve been super happy with my M6’s performance so this new release will be one I will be watching closely and be eager to test against my M6.

>

> > @noodle3872 said:

> > Was watching TXG’s live session from this past Monday. Ian answered a question about which club was a disappointing performer and he mentioned the Speed Foam injected M5/M6 drivers were slower ball speed wise than expected. He said he expects the TM 2020 drivers to be much quicker off the face. I’ve been super happy with my M6’s performance so this new release will be one I will be watching closely and be eager to test against my M6.

>

> Funny he said that, some of his videos he had his longest shots with TM gear. Seemed like the ball speed was either faster or if not tied with the other big OEMs.

 

My M4 is 1.5-2 mph faster than the m5 I tested. The m5 competes because it's lower spin than the m4.

 

But the whole speed injection so every driver is tuned to max speed is bunk.

[driveandputtmachine]

I agree it is a good way to pique WRX interest, and I also think the extra cost to TM is not as much to include the real deal shafts as it is to include a "watered down" shaft. I just don't think to the majority of golfers (those silly in-betweeners") it will make much of a difference whether it is a real deal or watered down. Play on tour, and a catchy color scheme (so those in-betweeners can recognize it) are one of the best ways to get adoption. However those in-betweeners are buying a TM driver, that happens to come with a shaft (insert brand name here) colored like the one Koepka or McIlroy uses(they think it is the same shaft whether it is or not). The next year they will buy another TM with Aldila if that is who TM chooses go with as a shaft provider. They are not moving to Callaway because Cally used a (the shaft brand that was in their TM the year before) shaft.

 

I cannot imagine that Fuji makes nearly the money on aftermarket sales as they do selling their shafts to TM/Cally/Titleist/Ping/Insert big OEM here. Unless fitters and golfworks sell a whole lot more than I realize.

[Cwing]

Wasn’t thus thread about a new driver release???‍♂️

[Trying4Better]

> @GoGoErky said:

> > @Trying4Better said:

> > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > > @knudson81 said:

> > > > > Certain posts have been removed or edited from this thread at the request of the copyright holder.

> > > >

> > > > That would be mine, and I would love to know why? I simply asked a question, and have no insider knowledge nor contacts at the OEM. In fact, I have no contacts with reps or anything. I get all of my information here. Although, if an OEM can ask for my comment to be removed on a public forum, it makes me wonder why I would want to patronize the forum that allows this. I certainly am not trolling, nor asking for anything other than an explanation.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > To be clear, they did post a teaser comment that led to my question.

> > >

> > > Embargo is usually the reason. While the manufacturer posted a teaser the info related to that such as names and other details aren’t released for public knowledge. Other brands have done the same the last few months with pictures including yesterday or day before with Callaway irons

> >

> > Absolutely understand. However, I was not saying anything other than asking a speculative question based on the comment they made. Embargo or not, how does that make sense?

>

> A brand has an embargo. Information leaked that shouldn’t have and the brand asked a publication to remove the information, said publication who has and wants to maintain a relationship with the brand honors the request, so any all references to said information is edited or removed. Not sure what hard to grasp that a brand is trying to protect its proprietary information and a media outlet assists them in doing so.

 

Not sure how this even relates to my post? I did not post a picture, nor confirm any information based on a source. In fact, I stated I have no connections whatsoever in the industry and come here for news on upcoming releases. Again, if all I did was ask a question to spark conversation, how is that grounds to remove my post? Honestly, for those that read my speculative post, it only confirms my thoughts. Which ends up "leaking" the information they were holding so dear to them.

[GoGoErky]

> @Trying4Better said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > > > @knudson81 said:

> > > > > > Certain posts have been removed or edited from this thread at the request of the copyright holder.

> > > > >

> > > > > That would be mine, and I would love to know why? I simply asked a question, and have no insider knowledge nor contacts at the OEM. In fact, I have no contacts with reps or anything. I get all of my information here. Although, if an OEM can ask for my comment to be removed on a public forum, it makes me wonder why I would want to patronize the forum that allows this. I certainly am not trolling, nor asking for anything other than an explanation.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > To be clear, they did post a teaser comment that led to my question.

> > > >

> > > > Embargo is usually the reason. While the manufacturer posted a teaser the info related to that such as names and other details aren’t released for public knowledge. Other brands have done the same the last few months with pictures including yesterday or day before with Callaway irons

> > >

> > > Absolutely understand. However, I was not saying anything other than asking a speculative question based on the comment they made. Embargo or not, how does that make sense?

> >

> > A brand has an embargo. Information leaked that shouldn’t have and the brand asked a publication to remove the information, said publication who has and wants to maintain a relationship with the brand honors the request, so any all references to said information is edited or removed. Not sure what hard to grasp that a brand is trying to protect its proprietary information and a media outlet assists them in doing so.

>

> Not sure how this even relates to my post? I did not post a picture, nor confirm any information based on a source. In fact, I stated I have no connections whatsoever in the industry and come here for news on upcoming releases. Again, if all I did was ask a question to spark conversation, how is that grounds to remove my post? Honestly, for those that read my speculative post, it only confirms my thoughts. Which ends up "leaking" the information they were holding so dear to them.

 

I don’t recall what your post stated/asked but if it could in anyway point to the information that was leaked it was probably deemed to be against whatever embargo information is being withheld. I had a post edited to remove reference to the proposed number of releases and what each was. I don’t believe I mentioned the names but that they could be taking a similar approach to another brand.

 

No one is trying to squash your ability to ask questions or intrude on your rights. Wrx was complying with a request from the brand to remove any content related to unreleased information, speculative or not, or to spark conversation. It’s as simple as anything and everything related to non public information was removed at the request of the brand.

 

 

[Trying4Better]

> @GoGoErky said:

> > @Trying4Better said:

> > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > > > > @knudson81 said:

> > > > > > > Certain posts have been removed or edited from this thread at the request of the copyright holder.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That would be mine, and I would love to know why? I simply asked a question, and have no insider knowledge nor contacts at the OEM. In fact, I have no contacts with reps or anything. I get all of my information here. Although, if an OEM can ask for my comment to be removed on a public forum, it makes me wonder why I would want to patronize the forum that allows this. I certainly am not trolling, nor asking for anything other than an explanation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To be clear, they did post a teaser comment that led to my question.

> > > > >

> > > > > Embargo is usually the reason. While the manufacturer posted a teaser the info related to that such as names and other details aren’t released for public knowledge. Other brands have done the same the last few months with pictures including yesterday or day before with Callaway irons

> > > >

> > > > Absolutely understand. However, I was not saying anything other than asking a speculative question based on the comment they made. Embargo or not, how does that make sense?

> > >

> > > A brand has an embargo. Information leaked that shouldn’t have and the brand asked a publication to remove the information, said publication who has and wants to maintain a relationship with the brand honors the request, so any all references to said information is edited or removed. Not sure what hard to grasp that a brand is trying to protect its proprietary information and a media outlet assists them in doing so.

> >

> > Not sure how this even relates to my post? I did not post a picture, nor confirm any information based on a source. In fact, I stated I have no connections whatsoever in the industry and come here for news on upcoming releases. Again, if all I did was ask a question to spark conversation, how is that grounds to remove my post? Honestly, for those that read my speculative post, it only confirms my thoughts. Which ends up "leaking" the information they were holding so dear to them.

>

> I don’t recall what your post stated/asked but if it could in anyway point to the information that was leaked it was probably deemed to be against whatever embargo information is being withheld. I had a post edited to remove reference to the proposed number of releases and what each was. I don’t believe I mentioned the names but that they could be taking a similar approach to another brand.

>

> No one is trying to squash your ability to ask questions or intrude on your rights. Wrx was complying with a request from the brand to remove any content related to unreleased information, speculative or not, or to spark conversation. It’s as simple as anything and everything related to non public information was removed at the request of the brand.

>

>

 

And you don't find that odd? If you are an OEM, why would you ask that content be removed from someone who is asking a question or giving their opinion? I can understand the desire to remove content directly leaked with pictures and links. It's just strange that the content from others' posts referencing speaking to their reps can remain, but one that offers their opinion is removed.

[GoGoErky]

> @Trying4Better said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > > > > > @knudson81 said:

> > > > > > > > Certain posts have been removed or edited from this thread at the request of the copyright holder.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That would be mine, and I would love to know why? I simply asked a question, and have no insider knowledge nor contacts at the OEM. In fact, I have no contacts with reps or anything. I get all of my information here. Although, if an OEM can ask for my comment to be removed on a public forum, it makes me wonder why I would want to patronize the forum that allows this. I certainly am not trolling, nor asking for anything other than an explanation.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To be clear, they did post a teaser comment that led to my question.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Embargo is usually the reason. While the manufacturer posted a teaser the info related to that such as names and other details aren’t released for public knowledge. Other brands have done the same the last few months with pictures including yesterday or day before with Callaway irons

> > > > >

> > > > > Absolutely understand. However, I was not saying anything other than asking a speculative question based on the comment they made. Embargo or not, how does that make sense?

> > > >

> > > > A brand has an embargo. Information leaked that shouldn’t have and the brand asked a publication to remove the information, said publication who has and wants to maintain a relationship with the brand honors the request, so any all references to said information is edited or removed. Not sure what hard to grasp that a brand is trying to protect its proprietary information and a media outlet assists them in doing so.

> > >

> > > Not sure how this even relates to my post? I did not post a picture, nor confirm any information based on a source. In fact, I stated I have no connections whatsoever in the industry and come here for news on upcoming releases. Again, if all I did was ask a question to spark conversation, how is that grounds to remove my post? Honestly, for those that read my speculative post, it only confirms my thoughts. Which ends up "leaking" the information they were holding so dear to them.

> >

> > I don’t recall what your post stated/asked but if it could in anyway point to the information that was leaked it was probably deemed to be against whatever embargo information is being withheld. I had a post edited to remove reference to the proposed number of releases and what each was. I don’t believe I mentioned the names but that they could be taking a similar approach to another brand.

> >

> > No one is trying to squash your ability to ask questions or intrude on your rights. Wrx was complying with a request from the brand to remove any content related to unreleased information, speculative or not, or to spark conversation. It’s as simple as anything and everything related to non public information was removed at the request of the brand.

> >

> >

>

> And you don't find that odd? If you are an OEM, why would you ask that content be removed from someone who is asking a question or giving their opinion? I can understand the desire to remove content directly leaked with pictures and links. It's just strange that the content from others' posts referencing speaking to their reps can remain, but one that offers their opinion is removed.

 

I don’t find it odd at all. Anything that has details or speculation of details should be removed. Anything that sparks conversation if the same info should as well.

 

Someone saying they spoke to their rep and not offering any details is a normal occurrence in every equipment release thread this time of year. Many of the brands have had their reps out to their accounts showing off the new gear and getting inventory setup. I had a chance to see the new cobra stuff in the catalogue for this year. That doesn’t provide anything about what’s coming and thus wouldn’t be something the brand would care is out there.

[Rig14Port]

> @GoGoErky said:

> > @Trying4Better said:

> > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > > > > > > @knudson81 said:

> > > > > > > > > Certain posts have been removed or edited from this thread at the request of the copyright holder.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > That would be mine, and I would love to know why? I simply asked a question, and have no insider knowledge nor contacts at the OEM. In fact, I have no contacts with reps or anything. I get all of my information here. Although, if an OEM can ask for my comment to be removed on a public forum, it makes me wonder why I would want to patronize the forum that allows this. I certainly am not trolling, nor asking for anything other than an explanation.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To be clear, they did post a teaser comment that led to my question.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Embargo is usually the reason. While the manufacturer posted a teaser the info related to that such as names and other details aren’t released for public knowledge. Other brands have done the same the last few months with pictures including yesterday or day before with Callaway irons

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Absolutely understand. However, I was not saying anything other than asking a speculative question based on the comment they made. Embargo or not, how does that make sense?

> > > > >

> > > > > A brand has an embargo. Information leaked that shouldn’t have and the brand asked a publication to remove the information, said publication who has and wants to maintain a relationship with the brand honors the request, so any all references to said information is edited or removed. Not sure what hard to grasp that a brand is trying to protect its proprietary information and a media outlet assists them in doing so.

> > > >

> > > > Not sure how this even relates to my post? I did not post a picture, nor confirm any information based on a source. In fact, I stated I have no connections whatsoever in the industry and come here for news on upcoming releases. Again, if all I did was ask a question to spark conversation, how is that grounds to remove my post? Honestly, for those that read my speculative post, it only confirms my thoughts. Which ends up "leaking" the information they were holding so dear to them.

> > >

> > > I don’t recall what your post stated/asked but if it could in anyway point to the information that was leaked it was probably deemed to be against whatever embargo information is being withheld. I had a post edited to remove reference to the proposed number of releases and what each was. I don’t believe I mentioned the names but that they could be taking a similar approach to another brand.

> > >

> > > No one is trying to squash your ability to ask questions or intrude on your rights. Wrx was complying with a request from the brand to remove any content related to unreleased information, speculative or not, or to spark conversation. It’s as simple as anything and everything related to non public information was removed at the request of the brand.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > And you don't find that odd? If you are an OEM, why would you ask that content be removed from someone who is asking a question or giving their opinion? I can understand the desire to remove content directly leaked with pictures and links. It's just strange that the content from others' posts referencing speaking to their reps can remain, but one that offers their opinion is removed.

>

> I don’t find it odd at all. Anything that has details or speculation of details should be removed. Anything that sparks conversation if the same info should as well.

>

> Someone saying they spoke to their rep and not offering any details is a normal occurrence in every equipment release thread this time of year. Many of the brands have had their reps out to their accounts showing off the new gear and getting inventory setup. I had a chance to see the new cobra stuff in the catalogue for this year. That doesn’t provide anything about what’s coming and thus wouldn’t be something the brand would care is out there.

 

The removal of your posts should certainly confirm that your speculations were on point. NOW, maybe you can refresh us all on the speculative details of your original posts without inferring that you may have access to or first hand knowledge of the product. Ha. This is a public forum right... isn't there some sort of right to sharing your opinion for the basis of discussion?

[Gorham]

Guys, please let's stay on topic. I am a 64 year old mid-handicap golfer, who just loves the game. I am a TM fan and the majority of my clubs are TM. I am truly interested in their 2020 offerings and want to hear everyone's opinion. I don't really care about Premium Shafts versus "Made for". Either way, a Fuji Ventus (either one) is probably an upgrade for me. If you want to discuss this at length, please start a new topic. Also, I am sorry that your post was removed, that was not right. That being said let's move on with the topic. Thanks to everyone.

[GoGoErky]

> @Rig14Port said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > > @Trying4Better said:

> > > > > > > > > > @knudson81 said:

> > > > > > > > > > Certain posts have been removed or edited from this thread at the request of the copyright holder.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > That would be mine, and I would love to know why? I simply asked a question, and have no insider knowledge nor contacts at the OEM. In fact, I have no contacts with reps or anything. I get all of my information here. Although, if an OEM can ask for my comment to be removed on a public forum, it makes me wonder why I would want to patronize the forum that allows this. I certainly am not trolling, nor asking for anything other than an explanation.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > To be clear, they did post a teaser comment that led to my question.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Embargo is usually the reason. While the manufacturer posted a teaser the info related to that such as names and other details aren’t released for public knowledge. Other brands have done the same the last few months with pictures including yesterday or day before with Callaway irons

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Absolutely understand. However, I was not saying anything other than asking a speculative question based on the comment they made. Embargo or not, how does that make sense?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A brand has an embargo. Information leaked that shouldn’t have and the brand asked a publication to remove the information, said publication who has and wants to maintain a relationship with the brand honors the request, so any all references to said information is edited or removed. Not sure what hard to grasp that a brand is trying to protect its proprietary information and a media outlet assists them in doing so.

> > > > >

> > > > > Not sure how this even relates to my post? I did not post a picture, nor confirm any information based on a source. In fact, I stated I have no connections whatsoever in the industry and come here for news on upcoming releases. Again, if all I did was ask a question to spark conversation, how is that grounds to remove my post? Honestly, for those that read my speculative post, it only confirms my thoughts. Which ends up "leaking" the information they were holding so dear to them.

> > > >

> > > > I don’t recall what your post stated/asked but if it could in anyway point to the information that was leaked it was probably deemed to be against whatever embargo information is being withheld. I had a post edited to remove reference to the proposed number of releases and what each was. I don’t believe I mentioned the names but that they could be taking a similar approach to another brand.

> > > >

> > > > No one is trying to squash your ability to ask questions or intrude on your rights. Wrx was complying with a request from the brand to remove any content related to unreleased information, speculative or not, or to spark conversation. It’s as simple as anything and everything related to non public information was removed at the request of the brand.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > And you don't find that odd? If you are an OEM, why would you ask that content be removed from someone who is asking a question or giving their opinion? I can understand the desire to remove content directly leaked with pictures and links. It's just strange that the content from others' posts referencing speaking to their reps can remain, but one that offers their opinion is removed.

> >

> > I don’t find it odd at all. Anything that has details or speculation of details should be removed. Anything that sparks conversation if the same info should as well.

> >

> > Someone saying they spoke to their rep and not offering any details is a normal occurrence in every equipment release thread this time of year. Many of the brands have had their reps out to their accounts showing off the new gear and getting inventory setup. I had a chance to see the new cobra stuff in the catalogue for this year. That doesn’t provide anything about what’s coming and thus wouldn’t be something the brand would care is out there.

>

> The removal of your posts should certainly confirm that your speculations were on point. NOW, maybe you can refresh us all on the speculative details of your original posts without inferring that you may have access to or first hand knowledge of the product. Ha. This is a public forum right... isn't there some sort of right to sharing your opinion for the basis of discussion?

 

I won’t repost what I said as it was removed for a reason and since it was deemed appropriate to edit it then that is how it will stay. Yes it’s a public forum and sharing an opinion is a right but both the brand and wrx have the right to remove content deemed not appropriate for whatever reason.

 

> @Gorham said:

> Guys, please let's stay on topic. I am a 64 year old mid-handicap golfer, who just loves the game. I am a TM fan and the majority of my clubs are TM. I am truly interested in their 2020 offerings and want to hear everyone's opinion. I don't really care about Premium Shafts versus "Made for". Either way, a Fuji Ventus (either one) is probably an upgrade for me. If you want to discuss this at length, please start a new topic. Also, I am sorry that your post was removed, that was not right. That being said let's move on with the topic. Thanks to everyone.

 

If there’s no public information about the 2020 releases from TM and the information that was shared was removed it would be hard for there to be a discussion about the release other than what each of us would like to see or hope they don’t do. TM already posted in here a week or so ago it would be 90ish days til info came out

[getitdaily]

TM better step it up with this next release. The 5 and 6 are slow compared to 3 and 4.

 

[TheMoneyShot]

I hope the rumors are true with a TP inspired deep face driver with a new MWT system..

[mrmikeac]

> @getitdaily said:

> TM better step it up with this next release. The 5 and 6 are slow compared to 3 and 4.

>

 

Agree, then I again I thought the same thing with the Epic Flash line compared to the Rogue. My numbers were still insanely better with the Rogue line and the M3 is still one of the longest drivers I’ve ever tested

[getitdaily]

> @mrmikeac said:

> > @getitdaily said:

> > TM better step it up with this next release. The 5 and 6 are slow compared to 3 and 4.

> >

>

> Agree, then I again I thought the same thing with the Epic Flash line compared to the Rogue. My numbers were still insanely better with the Rogue line and the M3 is still one of the longest drivers I’ve ever tested

 

I'm 4-5 mph faster in the m4 over the m5. That's a lot for a head that was supposed to be optimized for speed. Only reason m5 competes is because it spins less than m4. That was with m4 8.5 lofted up to 9.25 and m5 10.5 lofted down to 9.75. The difference was 1-2 mph with m5 9.0 set to standard. But my m4 is fast.

[SUPERG]

> @getitdaily said:

> > @mrmikeac said:

> > > @getitdaily said:

> > > TM better step it up with this next release. The 5 and 6 are slow compared to 3 and 4.

> > >

> >

> > Agree, then I again I thought the same thing with the Epic Flash line compared to the Rogue. My numbers were still insanely better with the Rogue line and the M3 is still one of the longest drivers I’ve ever tested

>

> I'm 4-5 mph faster in the m4 over the m5. That's a lot for a head that was supposed to be optimized for speed. Only reason m5 competes is because it spins less than m4. That was with m4 8.5 lofted up to 9.25 and m5 10.5 lofted down to 9.75. The difference was 1-2 mph with m5 9.0 set to standard. But my m4 is fast.

 

 

My older M2 was slightly faster than my M5, but got much better spin numbers out of the M5. That said I love my M5 but have always had it in the back of my head that it was a tad slow, and wish I could get the spin down on an F9 or TS3. Nonetheless, I’ll try the supposed “SIM” or whatever they want to call it.

 

[getitdaily]

> @SUPERG said:

> > @getitdaily said:

> > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > @getitdaily said:

> > > > TM better step it up with this next release. The 5 and 6 are slow compared to 3 and 4.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Agree, then I again I thought the same thing with the Epic Flash line compared to the Rogue. My numbers were still insanely better with the Rogue line and the M3 is still one of the longest drivers I’ve ever tested

> >

> > I'm 4-5 mph faster in the m4 over the m5. That's a lot for a head that was supposed to be optimized for speed. Only reason m5 competes is because it spins less than m4. That was with m4 8.5 lofted up to 9.25 and m5 10.5 lofted down to 9.75. The difference was 1-2 mph with m5 9.0 set to standard. But my m4 is fast.

>

>

> My older M2 was slightly faster than my M5, but got much better spin numbers out of the M5. That said I love my M5 but have always had it in the back of my head that it was a tad slow, and wish I could get the spin down on an F9 or TS3. Nonetheless, I’ll try the supposed “SIM” or whatever they want to call it.

>

 

Compared the m4 and m5 head to head on every driver hole today...m5 was the winner on distance on all but 2 holes. Those 2 were neck and neck. M5 was better on accuracy on all but 2 holes and the 2 holes m4 was better, the m5 ball was very playable. Played every m4 ball out and it cost me 2 shots where the m5 was in the fairway.

 

I may be a convert despite the ball speed difference.

[J13]

> @ignitewvu said:

> > @RodrigoNicely said:

> > > @Valtiel said:

> > > > @Rig14Port said:

> > > > > @driveandputtmachine said:

> > > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > > @GoGoErky said:

> > > > > > > > @noodle3872 said:

> > > > > > > > > @mrmikeac said:

> > > > > > > > > > @TheMoneyShot said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @wheelz said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Stock shafts I know for sure are Ventus Blue & Red (based on this Black should be $0 upcharge), HZRDUS Smoke, & a Diamana shaft assuming 4th gen series.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Watered down Ventus shaft?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Highly doubt Ventus will be stock. Either a watered down or possibly no upcharge. No upcharge just screams back ordered

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > There’s no way a $350 shaft is a stock offering. A Tensei Pro shaft is a $250 upcharge via TM and is $360.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > When companies buy shafts in bulk that price is a lot less and can be offered at the no upcharge price.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So how many $350 shafts does a company have to buy to bring the cost per shaft down to roughly $100 without lowering the material content quality?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sorry, its just not feasible IMHO.

> > > > >

> > > > > So the Ventus sells for 350 on golfworks and other places.

> > > >

> > > > It could very likely be a real deal shaft and they may be taking just above break even to get them in the hands of the mass market. My perception of Fuji is that they are a low cost OEM stock shaft manufacturer for secondary product lines (think M6). If they want to penetrate the high end market they need to get more high end products in the hands of high level golfers to start building their brand. I think they tried to do this with ATMOS but there wasn't enough tour adoption of the ATMOS line to attract buyers... Now that Ventus is in the hands of a couple familiar faces on tour it's time to strike.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Fuji is and has been high end for decades now. Lots of tour guys used the Atmos and tons used the Motore Speeders, even still today.

> >

> >

> >

> > This is such a laughable post. Fujikura a low cost shaft manufacturer. Jesus man some of this stuff that comes out around here is ridiculous

>

> For some reason there is so MUCH HATE for Fujikura on this forum & I "Think" I know why.

>

> Right now their products are top notch way more innovative than what MC is doing & they are using MC materials!!!. In fact MC hasn't come out with anything seriously causing Buzz in 2+ seasons.

 

Ventus is a good product but Fuji earned the bad rap. They are notorious for paint overs.

 

As for Mitsubishi-

 

"The 2018-2019 season marked a new high with 18 total season event driver shaft wins. Mitsubishi Chemical has taken the top spot for driver shaft wins in the last 14 of 15 years."

"For 2019 season, Mitsubishi Chemical branded driver shafts including wins in Augusta, Georgia, Farmingdale, New York, and Northern Ireland."

[Stanks]

Interesting turn, this thread took. You guys are gonna dig the new stuff.