USGA DISTANCE INSIGHT

[bigred90gt]

To take it a step further, my old home course was 6969 yards from the tips. 6350ish from the regular mens tees. Based on the USGA numbers of 20 acres per 100 yards, they would recommend 1270 acres based on regular mens tees and 1394 acres based on the tips. The course was on 206 acres and had plenty of room to spare. They are inflating their numbers to ridiculous proportions to justify their stance. No other way around that.

 

edited to clarify: that 206 acres included the driving range, clubhouse, cart barn, maintenance barn and parking lot.

[ThinkingPlus]

So it appears that 10% rollback is the number that folks are comfortable with or at least there doesn't seem to be great objections. So that will push the male pros and elite male ams back 30 yards or so, good male ams will lose mid-20s, and the average male am around 20 yards. It is so comforting to know that the ladies I play golf with will only lose 10 - 15 yards off their tee shots. I am sure the RBs consider all this a small price to pay to preserve the Merions of the world.

[golfer07840]

If it's only going to affect the top .001% then why even bother with any of this?

[bigred90gt]

See above. Your architect friend is full of it.

[jmck]

Why not? Why are the people who this will not affect at all getting so worked up about it?

[QuigleyDU]

How much is a membership at Merion Golf Club?Merion Golf Club (Pennsylvania)

Initiation fees start at $70,000 with $6,000 yearly dues and up, and you can only apply by member referral.

 

Lets change the rules for everyone to protect this course. Sounds like a 1%'er idea...

 

more than 100 years after its founding, it remains mostly a haven for rich white men. Women at the club follow an unwritten — but understood — restriction against teeing off on the East Course before 1 p.m. on Saturdays. And while the men have an expansive locker room, Merion recently cut the women’s changing area nearly in half — to make space for a new conference room. Meanwhile, the club has few minority members. “There’s a built-in, unspoken discrimination,” says one member. “And no one seems too keen on doing anything about it.” (The club’s general manager did not return phone calls.)Founded: 1896. Notable facilities: Two 18-hole golf courses (East and West); a few paddle tennis courts. Cost: Annual dues around $6,000; annual food minimum around $600. Average member age: 45. Demographics: White, white, white, of the Wasp variety. 

[Hawkeye77]

Hey, I just thought it was a good way to frame a discussion! I have no intention of losing any yardage. I'll start stocking up on balls and already have plenty of drivers lying about, lol.

[Hawkeye77]

Every 4 months on here.

[QuigleyDU]

Gotta drive traffic. haha.

[bscinstnct]

 

Just saw this....

 

“We are looking at distance in a very holistic way,” Rand Jerris, the USGA’s senior managing director of public services, said to Golf Digest. “The golf ball is not the focus of this project.”

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/why-players-are-right-to-jab-the-usga-and-also-off-the-mark

 

 

[QuigleyDU]

The must have seen the torches.. Or it is misdirection. Interesting take from the article. I think this has been voiced a number of times by a number of people here.

No matter the response, there was an underlying tone to some of the players’ denials and rebuttals that is problematic. Simply put, many sound as if they don’t trust the governing bodies, their motive or their competence.

[bladehunter]

My stance is based on two things.

Mom still young enough ( Barely ) to be competing against up and coming college age kids. So I see first hand what’s coming up. Distance isn’t finished growing. We are not close to maxed out.

 

And two. My experience on wet , long playing courses. Days when Its really tough going. My scores barely change if any. Most fall down. That shows me first hand that if it’s a harder game , I fair far better. It’s a good simulation of how the tougher game used to be. Why wouldn’t we want to identify the absolute best ball strikers and ball control artists? I can pump it out a long way. I don’t buy that pumping it 330 and hoping to find for yet another flip wedge is a higher skilled game than the guys who can and have shot low rounds and won majors without even a driver really in play. So I’m a fan of length. Just the Davis love / tiger length. The 250 yard 2 iron type . Not the 330 and hope we find it type.

[jvincent]

I'm sure they'd come up with some kind of restraint of trade argument that the tour only ball limits the market, etc.

I'm assuming here that a tour only ball is one that is provided by the tour. If it's just a new ball spec and all the manufacturers manufacture to the new spec then I would expect all the non-conforming balls to disappear and we'd be left with the situation we have now for cheater balls.

[DFS PFD]

Why isn't distance done growing?

[jvincent]

Given the expertise with multi-layers and dimple patterns I bet that when they change the limit for the fastest guys that the somewhat slower guys don't suffer as much. I.e. there will be a compression in the range of distances.

[jmck]

Oh they’d get sued to sure if they went with some sort of official manufacturer of an official tour ball, so no way they’d do that. It’s gotta be a spec that everyone is free to manufacture to, with players choosing whatever ball from whoever they’d like. So basically just like it is now, but with a slight different spec.

[bladehunter]

Now. I’m certain that I’m not your favorite poster at The moment.

But I’d like to say That I search out your posts on this and other subjects because I value your opinion. Especially on this subject. Why ? Because I understand the motives of all these guys. But I’m woefully ignorant of the ladies game at the club level.

so I want to ask what maybe a dumb question or two.

 

Would it be insulting to suggest that the current ball perimeters be adopted as the “ women's competition ball “ ? Effectively making it a no change for the women’s game ? I had that idea based on the similar fact that most courses have ladies rated tees that men cannot post scores from . ( unless my understanding of that is wrong ) what I’m trying to connect is that there already exists some forms of rule splits involving men vs women play and handicaps ..

I type this because I am genuinely very interested in the plight of the women player when compared to the club men’s game. We are actively trying to attract women members at my course through ladies only play and ladies only evening functions . Not a huge success yet . But we will keep trying . The men’s game isn’t in any peril if they roll it back some . The only casualties will be a few egos . Period . I say that because very very few men play the front senior tees. 99% posting here and all over can move up a set or two if need be . But I get that the women can’t .

That all being said. I still firmly believe that distance in the form of the modern ball and driver is detrimental to the top men’s game . And it’s not finished growing yet . Surely there is a solution that suits both extremes ?

 

 

[jmck]

Why are computers not getting smaller and faster? Why are cars not getting safer and more efficient?

To say that ANY technology is EVER done improving is to instantly get left behind.

[bladehunter]

Many reasons. Still creeping up on tour every year isn’t it ?

I found 14 yards of carry with a shaft and head swap this year with same loft. And trackman says “ hit up on it “ lol and I could have more. Eventually the cam champ prototype will emerge with a plus 5 aoa and control of it. And he’ll average 400 plus. Will that score ? Don’t know. But distance isn’t done.

[Shilgy]

Blade, you have been playing for what?.. five years? And you are telling us what works and doesn’t with the old equipment? Cmon man!! In your post a couple above you said you couldn’t control over 115 club speed....and yet Jack and others did. You also often times have stated how slow and controlled you needed to swing with persimmon...have you ever seen Johnny Miller videos? He looked like Bubba or JT up on his toes all out. I respect your game and your comments but you did not play the old equipment. You are making assumptions based on what commentators says to get attention. Those of us that played the old gear know it really was not that difficult to play well. Because the clubs of the day matched the characteristics of the balata ball. Many times you have suggested 300cc maximum to slow down speed. Have you ever hit the TM Mini One driver? 275cc and with your talent you would not be holding back on speed. Heck, do you throttle way back to keep a 180cc fairway wood in play? And the pros hit dead nuts middle of the face more than we do. They will not be slowed down by a few cc’s taken away.

[ThinkingPlus]

They might be able to do something along those lines, but it won't buy back much. Maybe a couple percent. Physics is physics; no magic allowed.

[bladehunter]

Well. Then we’re all arguing for not.

we all know they aren’t going to shrink driver heads. And of all they want to do is reduce CT ? Then I’ll jump ship. I want to see forgiveness spat out. Not just Cor/CT.

[Dpavs]

To be fair, I think you need to qualify your reference as to "folks". I am guessing that there are many like myself that would be opposed to a 10% roll back for Amateurs.

[DFS PFD]

Wasn't arguing with either of you was just curious on your thoughts. With the current ball and club parameters I don't see tech providing much more in ball speed gains if any. Fitness could show increased development for a few more years but many are reaching their potential IMO. There will always be outliers. Curious to see what the future has in store for us!

[jvincent]

Don't count the propeller heads out!

Assuming the USGA doesn't come up with a ball test that covers multiple launch conditions it will be up to the engineering teams to figure out how to hit that one point and then provide better performance at different conditions.

[ThinkingPlus]

The RBs could do something like that, but that really isn't in their nature. The groove rule is a classic example. Whether anyone will admit it or not that rule change was intended to impact the "bomb and gouge" strategy. The result actually has hurt the average am far more than the pros. In fact I think the pros benefitted. They no longer have to worry about ripping one back off the green into bad places, yet still retain plenty of spin to stop the ball from the typical rough found today. Given that the prevailing opinion among advocates is that the RBs believe that rule change was a great success, my expectations moving forward with the current "issue" is decidedly low.

[ThinkingPlus]

Rollback advocates, yes.

[oikos1]

"We are actively trying to attract women members at my course through ladies only play and ladies only evening functions . Not a huge success yet ."

Perhaps you and your club are projecting the wrong image, especially if the member's thoughts are anywhere close to yours:"As far as handicappers vs not. How many non handicappers play by the rules ? And do we care about people who aren’t playing by the rules ? I personally don’t.""I for one loathe a social round of golf."

[ThinkingPlus]

While not an expert in this particular area, I do have a couple of beanies with propellers as well. A magic solution is highly unlikely. Most materials are linear within the normal standard temperature and pressure regimes we live in.

[Shilgy]

Is distance creeping up? Or just the tour average? That really is two different things. In Jacks day their were not as many long hitters that also had the touch and short game to really compete. Now there are many many more such players. So the average drive goes up because now there are ten Jacks(distance wise not game-don’t flame me for sacrilege) ten Weiskopfs and so on. The tour average will continue to creep up as some of the older shorter players like Furyk are replace with the Wolf’s and such.