Kevin Na vs WRX

[nsxguy]

8% of 18 is 1.44. Further, the Titleist CBs aren't a whole lot more forgiving than your Blueprints so let's call it 2 shots per round.

Even lost a match or medal play by 2 shots or less ? A multi-round medal event by 4-8 shots ?

C'mon now,,,,,,,,,,,, I'm betting you have. LOL

Let's face it. Proximity to the hole is "king", whether from 150 yards, 10 feet from off the green or a putt. The closer you get the better you score.

And maybe not you, but the vast majority of golfers will get a more forgiving iron closer to the green and closer to the hole more often from 150 and in than they will with a blade.

[Pepperturbo]

Its no wonder the index stats haven't improved over the years. DB talk is cheap and tiring. Even if a person buys the same equipment as a tour player, it's NOT going to improve that persons game. WHY? Standards are too low.

[1Mordrid1]

Aesthetics can be important, because it can really affect alignment for a lot of players. But to an extent it is something you can train yourself to get over with training and practice.

A lot of people who buy new clubs will struggle with them simply because they are trying to make them appear to line up like their previous clubs. Then if they struggle with the dispersion of the new irons they go back to the previous clubs because they are "comfortable" with them, but really they are just familiar. All they needed to do to get familiar with the new clubs is to go outside a few minutes per day, use a club shaft to align their feet to a target and use an old credit card or hotel room key card as an aid to square the leading edge and aim the face to the target. After 2 weeks of doing this, the club should look more familiar to the player, and their alignment should have improved.

But we also can't completely ignore ego. There are quite a few people out there that will claim they don't like the look of anything but blades, but the truth is that they think playing blades makes them look like a more skilled golfer.

[msses]

BINGO

[msses]

LOL! Now we're into talking about CB "hot spots", distance control better with blades... yadda... yadda... yadda.

Let's keep one thing in mind to keep the debate on track, it's about you guys not the pros. Y'all are a bunch of amateurs. There is no shame in playing equipment that is engineered and designed for amateurs... that being you.... amateur.

[vman]

Rare to play with anyone over a 4 handicap who can do any justice to the irons in his bag regardless of the design.

[Pepperturbo]

I owned those 735cm Titleist irons too. They only lasted a year in the bag. The 725cm long 4i-2i had full deep forgiving cavities which made working the ball and distance control more difficult. They sure are straight though. Those 735cm CBs are nothing like my 620CBs which are designed to be blended with my 620MBs and play like blades; nearly as forgiving as other CBs.

I have a set RSi TP irons which are called player CBs. What I don't like about them is too much offset, too much CB plus they are harder to control distances. Sometimes I'd hit 6 iron expecting 165+ but get 180yds. I don't need all sorts of forgiveness because I frequently miss the the sweet spot. I find the sweet spot most of the time and miss occasionally. I hit a pretty straight ball so dispersion is not a problem I encounter much.

[Pepperturbo]

I agree long irons are more difficult but disagree with there is no difference between 9i CB and 9i MB. Maybe not so much in the 2-4 handi range because the lower a person gets they have more ball control. Saying someone is a single digit does not necessary mean they are a good ball striker. I watched friends struggle with my old Titleist 735cm blended irons.

Friends have hit my short iron blades and my old 716CB and TSi TP CB short irons. The result was not nearly as good or even close to my result, and they all play really forgiving CB irons. The problem is if people are use to forgiveness, they get lazy so it's going to eventually show its face throughout the set, even for 7-8 indexes. I've watched people try to hit my 718T-MB 17* 2iron which is my 210ish+ club, and is really forgiving yet they struggle. IMO there's not much difference between an 8 index and 11.

[Ri_Redneck]

This is a good question actually! Most here seem to allude to a result of better accuracy. When actually that's only part of what the designers are trying to do. Most are trying to build more distance into the clubs. When you look at the science behind each characteristic of GI/SGI clubs you see: MOI is all about dispersion. Low CoG is all about getting the ball elevated. Jacked lofts are all about raw distance, Offset is all about correcting the slice. What about the players that only need one or two of those things? I mean, a blade player would benefit from a blade look with a really high MOI, correct. They still get the look they want with even more accuracy.

BTW, I posted about a week ago that I was going to get a set of irons with much higher MOI than my usual sets, to try for the rest of the year to see just how much of a difference they would make. I chose the JPX EZ heads, which have approximately 65% better MOI than my MP5s. The VCoG are quite close and the offset is not too bad, so I figured the main difference was the MOI. I'll be shafting these with Program F15 120 S flex straight in with my preferred grip and fitted to my specs. I will have them ready by Saturday and will try them out if I can. I don't collect data when playing now, so I'll strictly be going off scoring only. I mean, that's what matters most, right? As this thread will definitely be locked by the end of the season, I'll start a new one for those who might be interested in the results. I will reference MOI in the discussion name and not Blades vs Cavities.

BT

[Ri_Redneck]

We should play sometime. PM me if you're interested. That is if you don't mind hackin' it around with a traveling 8 cap.

BT

[ThinkingPlus]

You are absolutely correct. Given the modern design tools and manufacturing processes the CB vs MB debate is somewhat moot as you can just about get anything you want in either cosmetic package. It is all about MOI, VCoG, HCoG (Maltby "C" dimension), and sole geometry. I need lower VCoG than most because I have moderate swing speed (low around this fun house) and play very firm turf/hardpan. However, I don't need extremely large MOI or much bounce. A standard modern CB generally won't work well for me. I ditched my Apex CF16s last year because the high VCoG made them almost unplayable for me here in S. TX. Yet, they are beloved clubs in this community with folks raving about how forgiving they are. There was a time when CBs and forgiveness implied easier to launch high, but those days are long gone as many "forgiving" game improvement irons these days have VCoG above the ball centerline (the OEMs are optimizing more on MOI). That can work fine if you play soft courses where the CG can be driven below the centerline during the strike, but you will break your wrist doing that in this part of the country. I wish the OEMs would go back to the design philosophy of the early to mid 2000s. Lots of nice CBs and MBs around that time period with low VCoG, moderate MOI, minimal bounce, and fairly centered HCoG. While I am wishing, I would also like to see all these critical parameters available for all irons in a set from all the OEMs. That won't happen because then the marketing folks would mostly be out of a job (truth in advertising is an oxymoron after all). Rant over.

[Ri_Redneck]

This may have the data you're looking for. I don't agree with the MPF concept, but the measurements are all done stock equipment in the industry.

Iron Head MPF Ratings | The GolfWorks

BT

[mahonie]

To whup the CB playing hacks obviously ?...seriously you have heard of handicap competitions no?

[mahonie]

...until he got into the trees and took 16 to get down ?

[wobgon]

I have heard of them but try to avoid if at all possible.

[mahonie]

You don’t think I was expecting a response? Still waiting for the link ?

[mahonie]

Hot spots as described by TaylorMade on this very site (read the section on ‘Performance’ about halfway through):http://www.golfwrx.com/112242/taylormade-rocketbladez-tour-irons-editor-review/

[msses]

well, I'll be.... a 7 year old review written and published by this site, not TaylorMade. LOL

Now, if you want to hold that as gospel, it does confirm that CBs are designed for mid-high HDCPs which accounts for 99.9% of this site and people teeing off right now. The "hot spot" as described by TM defined an increased area of forgiveness approximately the size of a quarter. Who wouldn't want that? What size driver head do you play?

 

[raywutang]

well, maybe one day Kevin will allow you into his weekly medal game (aka a PGA Tour tourney), then let's see how many 16s you card...

[ThinkingPlus]

I get data from there all the time. Problem is they don't have every make and model. They also only do the 6 iron. I want specs on all the irons, hybrids, drivers, and wedges from all manufacturers. The CGs, MOI, and bounce are as important as loft as far as I am concerned.

[mahonie]

You have ignored the the issue that the increased sweetspot size causes alongside a hot face.

The issue is that on very slight mishits, and particularly just above the sweetspot, where you retain ball speed but lose spin, you could have a flier from a perfect lie. TaylorMade confirmed that in the article. DJ won a tournament with the Rocketbladez and still swapped back to his MBs the next week.

The article may be 7 years old but the physics is just the same...less than ideal contact with retained ball speed results in variable distance and directional control...I have a 460cc driver and I still experience just that... as do most amateurs.

[mahonie]

...no doubt there would be a few but I’m only playing once a fortnight and still breaking 80 and he’s hitting hundreds of balls every day with a team of dieticians, physios and psychiatrists on courses perfectly manicured and set up for the way he plays. Doesn’t give him the right to criticise someone else’s choice of equipment. At best he’s a journeyman pro who’s made the most of what he’s got...equipment guru he ain’t.

[DFS PFD]

Did you fail to read the part about "more consistent ball speed ACROSS the face on the single piece blade"? Who wouldn't want that?

[msses]

So you choose your irons based on what DJ does? Who cares what DJ plays. Seriously.

And what would you get with a very slight mishit with a blade? A better result than a CB? Na.

[Lobby]

It’s amazing how many folks got their undies in a bunch over this. As if Na ‘s statement was a personal attack. Crazy.

 

[msses]

Did you fail to read this?

 

"More impressive than the distances the RocketBladez Tour irons fly on good strikes is the distance they fly on mis-hits. I won’t say that flyers don’t exist, particularly with the long irons, because I’ve hit shots that went a little farther than I thought was possible for the given situation. But those shots are few and far between. Overall, I’ve found the hotter faces of the irons to be unbelievably forgiving on slight mishits, and better than any players iron I’ve ever tested on poor strikes.

I’ve hit several shots with the RocketBladez Tour irons that I thought had no chance of getting to the green, but they found their way there anyway. The opportunity to be putting instead of chipping was the biggest selling point for me."

[mahonie]

Na...I started playing before DJ was born and my choice of iron has been based purely on my own performance with every type of iron. With a slight mishit with a blade I generally get a ball that is still in play...pretty much the same miss I get with player’s CBs unless it’s high on the face where player’s CBs have even less mass behind the face than blades.

[Chuck905]

My point of idolatry is still valid thus far because a few people take Kevin Na’s opinion and twist it to be dogmatic on that alone, then go dismissing and insulting blade players.

Being dogmatic is idolatry.

What cracks me up is that Na’s opinion is invalid because he doesn’t get a say on what I play; he’s not my boss?

Somebody mentioned that I am embarrassing, my opinion doesn’t matter and nobody cares what I play, but I’ll tell you what, golf courses and golf companies care about embarrassing people like me because we spend and support the economy.

 

 

[wobgon]

[Chuck905]

Well said, couldn’t said it better myself!