Faldo vs. Mickelson, who was better?

[MattyO1984]

18 hours ago, MUNIGRIT said:

Who did Phil have completely choke a major do hand him a victory? Also let's talk about Brittish Opens where shooting 17 under wasn't enough for Nicky. 

 

Imagine if Phil himself didn’t choke as much? This thread would have been non-existent 😉

[Titleist_PT23]

Maybe peak Faldo could be peak Phil more often than not.  But in the all-time ranks I don't think it is even a question anymore (most seem to agree).

[Shak-]

I do find this narrative that Faldo was some sort of mentalist who turned opponents into quivering bags of failure by his mere presence a bit laughable, honestly.

 

Was Scott Hoch so intimidated by the steely brilliance with which Faldo crafted a miserable bogey on the first playoff hole that be missed that tap-in?

 

Was Azinger, leading by three at the turn on Sunday, so overwhelmed by Faldo parring in that he shot +4 on the back to lose by a shot? They weren't even playing together.

 

Floyd wasn't playing with him when he shot +1 for the last six to lose his four shot lead either.

 

I guess the one everyone points to is Norman, but honestly that was the Norman show. It's not like Faldo came out all guns blazing and turned the screw on him. He was six shots back and shot two under for this first twelve holes, while Norman melted down and shot +6 through the same stretch.

 

It would be unfair to say Faldo was simply lucky to win those majors. He shot three brilliant Sunday rounds to win his three green jackets. A 65, a 69 (with a double bogey on the first) and a 66 is stunning on a Sunday at Augusta. Muirfield was playing hard and 18 pars was a good round that day. He put himself in contention down the stretch, but major Sundays are full of guys making a late run and not getting it done because the leader closed the deal. Is there any other multiple major winner that benefitted as much as Faldo did from guys faltering when they had one hand on the trophy?

[CasualLie]

A lot of age bias in some of these posts.  While quite accomplished, Faldo is getting a lot of nostalgic, rose-colored glasses, look back.  He's not close to Phil.  Almost all of his wins came on the junior tour.  Any tour that can have Monty win order of merit 100 years in a row is not even close to the depth of competition of the PGA Tour.

 

All due credit to Sir Nick, he had some great years, but Phil is the better player, and it's not THAT close.

[MattyO1984]

In the interests of full disclosure, I cannot stand Faldo! He has and never will be my cup of tea. Now, I am just glad that you guys over there are stuck with him and we have Sky Sports 😃

[Shak-]

13 minutes ago, MattyO1984 said:

In the interests of full disclosure, I cannot stand Faldo! He has and never will be my cup of tea. Now, I am just glad that you guys over there are stuck with him and we have Sky Sports 😃

 

Yeah but it's looking increasingly likely that we're stuck with Paul McGinley either mispronouncing or flat out misusing words.

 

He's worse than Coltart, which is saying something.

[isaacbm]

Phil Mickelson by a huge margin .

I didn’t read this whole thread but I’m shocked that this is even a question. And I am a huge Nick Faldo fan. Love his style, love his precision, love the way he thought his way around the golf course.

but to me, there is just absolutely no way to compare nine PGA Tour wins to 44. Nick Faldo‘s wins came mostly on the European tour which quite frankly had very little depth and most of the best players in the world we’re not competing against him on a regular basis on that tour.  Even if you go body of work, Mickelson still has the same number of majors and 12 to 15 more professional wins.

[Superbrit]

8 minutes ago, isaacbm said:

Phil Mickelson by a huge margin .

I didn’t read this whole thread but I’m shocked that this is even a question. And I am a huge Nick Faldo fan. Love his style, love his precision, love the way he thought his way around the golf course.

but to me, there is just absolutely no way to compare nine PGA Tour wins to 44. Nick Faldo‘s wins came mostly on the European tour which quite frankly had very little depth and most of the best players in the world we’re not competing against him on a regular basis on that tour.  Even if you go body of work, Mickelson still has the same number of majors and 12 to 15 more professional wins.

Yeah the European tour in the 80's and 90's was garbage, the likes of Seve, Norman, Woosnam, Langer, Lyle, Olazabal to name a few, Faldo would have had it easy

 

I do agree about Mickelson being the better player by the way, but the European tour in the 80's and 90's was tough to win on

Edited May 27, 2021 by Superbrit

[jons1]

7 minutes ago, Superbrit said:

Yeah the European tour in the 80's and 90's was garbage, the likes of Seve, Norman, Woosnam, Langer, Lyle, Olazabal to name a few, Faldo would have had it easy

 

I do agree about Mickelson being the better player by the way, but the European tour in the 80's and 90's was tough to win on

 

It's a good point.  Europe produced a bunch of great players that were winning majors... but none of those guys hold a candle to the Tiger buzz saw Phil was up against.

 

[isaacbm]

2 hours ago, Superbrit said:

Yeah the European tour in the 80's and 90's was garbage, the likes of Seve, Norman, Woosnam, Langer, Lyle, Olazabal to name a few, Faldo would have had it easy

 

I do agree about Mickelson being the better player by the way, but the European tour in the 80's and 90's was tough to win on

I said there was a lack of depth not that the tour was garbage. The best players were quite good but the fact remains Faldo played 14 years of his career where  at least 2/3 of the events that he played for each year were on the PGA tour.  During those 14 years, he won five tour events.

    Nick Faldo won 3 PGA tour events in his career that weren’t major championships. 3 out of 303 starts 

Phil Mickelson won 38!

 

There’s  not a player in professional golf history that wouldn’t agree that the PGA tour was always significantly deeper than the European tour.

and again, Faldo is one of my favourite players ever. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by isaacbm

[MountainKing]

Phil spent the first part of his career playing against arguably the greatest golfer of all time.  He spent the second part of his career going up against guys who were influenced by Tiger and on another level of play.

 

Faldo spent most of his years hanging out on the European tour.    

 

In a Top 20 of all time, Faldo would probably be in the bottom 10 and Phil would be in the top 10.  

[mahonie]

5 hours ago, isaacbm said:

I said there was a lack of depth not that the tour was garbage. The best players were quite good but the fact remains Faldo played 14 years of his career where  at least 2/3 of the events that he played for each year were on the PGA tour.  During those 14 years, he won five tour events.

    Nick Faldo won 3 PGA tour events in his career that weren’t major championships. 3 out of 303 starts 

Phil Mickelson won 38!

 

There’s  not a player in professional golf history that wouldn’t agree that the PGA tour was always significantly deeper than the European tour.

and again, Faldo is one of my favourite players ever. 

It’s a really hard argument to make for one or the other as no PGA Tour players that I can think of have ever won multiple events on the European Tour where the variety of golf courses is completely different to the ‘one set up fits all’ approach of the PGA Tour.

 

Okay, not many PGA Tour players have ever played on the European Tour for any length of time, but I wonder how many European Tour events Phil would have won over a few seasons had he tried it.

[bscinstnct]

27 minutes ago, mahonie said:

It’s a really hard argument to make for one or the other as no PGA Tour players that I can think of have ever won multiple events on the European Tour where the variety of golf courses is completely different to the ‘one set up fits all’ approach of the PGA Tour.

 

Okay, not many PGA Tour players have ever played on the European Tour for any length of time, but I wonder how many European Tour events Phil would have won over a few seasons had he tried it.

 

Thousands!

 

 

 

[isaacbm]

2 hours ago, mahonie said:

It’s a really hard argument to make for one or the other as no PGA Tour players that I can think of have ever won multiple events on the European Tour where the variety of golf courses is completely different to the ‘one set up fits all’ approach of the PGA Tour.

 

Okay, not many PGA Tour players have ever played on the European Tour for any length of time, but I wonder how many European Tour events Phil would have won over a few seasons had he tried it.

Well tiger won 41 of them... 

phil won 11

Edited May 27, 2021 by isaacbm

[Shilgy]

22 minutes ago, isaacbm said:

Well tiger won 41 of them... 

phil won 11

Phil won two true Euro events. The 11 include majors and WGC events.

 

That said it’s still Phil > Faldo

Edited May 28, 2021 by Shilgy

[bscinstnct]

7 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Phil won two true Euro events. The 11 include majors and WGC events.

 

That said it’s still Phil > Faldo

 

I think TW has won 11 or 12 events actually played in Europe including Opens. 
 

But, he’s 3rd in all time “European” wins behind Seve and Langer. 

[Shilgy]

It’s funny isn’t it?   When Tiger came along we were told that there was just plain waaay to much talent on the PGA tour and no one could dominate again.  Just ask Curtis.😂

  Then Tiger beat the crap out of everyone and all on I read on wrx is that it was an incredibly overrated era and that he was beating a bunch of nobodies.

  Now, in this discussion about Phil winning in the same era as Tiger we are back to the Faldo, Norman Seve era as being titans of the game. Way better than Phil even though Phil certainly has better career numbers.

 

 

So bottom line is this question….WHICH THE HECK IS IT?

[Shilgy]

3 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

I think TW has won 11 or 12 events actually played in Europe including Opens. 
 

But, he’s 3rd in all time “European” wins behind Seve and Langer. 

Looks like 8 to me. 
copy paste probably won’t work….

No.	Date	Tournament	Winning score	Margin of victory	Runner(s)-up
1	Apr 13, 1997	Masters Tournament	−18 (70-66-65-69=270)	12 strokes	Tom Kite
2	Jan 25, 1998	Johnnie Walker Classic1	−9 (72-71-71-65=279)	Playoff	Ernie Els
3	May 24, 1999	Deutsche Bank - SAP Open TPC of Europe	−15 (69-68-68-68=273)	3 strokes	Retief Goosen
4	Aug 15, 1999	PGA Championship	−11 (70-67-68-72=277)	1 stroke	Sergio García
5	Aug 29, 1999	WGC-NEC Invitational	−10 (66-71-62-71=270)	1 stroke	Phil Mickelson
6	Nov 7, 1999	WGC-American Express Championship	−6 (71-69-70-68=278)	Playoff	Miguel Ángel Jiménez
7	Jun 18, 2000	U.S. Open	−12 (65-69-71-67=272)	15 strokes	Ernie Els,  Miguel Ángel Jiménez
8	Jul 23, 2000	The Open Championship	−19 (67-66-67-69=269)	8 strokes	Thomas Bjørn,  Ernie Els
9	Aug 20, 2000	PGA Championship (2)	−18 (66-67-70-67=270)	Playoff	Bob May
10	Aug 27, 2000	WGC-NEC Invitational (2)	−21 (64-61-67-67=259)	11 strokes	Justin Leonard,  Phillip Price
11	Nov 19 2000 (2001season)	Johnnie Walker Classic1,2 (2)	−25 (68-65-65-65=263)	3 strokes	Geoff Ogilvy
12	Apr 8, 2001	Masters Tournament (2)	−16 (70-66-68-68=272)	2 strokes	David Duval
13	May 20, 2001	Deutsche Bank - SAP Open TPC of Europe (2)	−22 (69-68-63-66=266)	4 strokes	Michael Campbell
14	Aug 26, 2001	WGC-NEC Invitational (3)	−12 (66-67-66-69=268)	Playoff	Jim Furyk
15	Apr 14, 2002	Masters Tournament (3)	−12 (70-69-66-71=276)	3 strokes	Retief Goosen
16	May 19, 2002	Deutsche Bank - SAP Open TPC of Europe (3)	−20 (69-67-64-68=268)	Playoff	Colin Montgomerie
17	Jun 16, 2002	U.S. Open (2)	−3 (67-68-70-72=277)	3 strokes	Phil Mickelson
18	Sep 22, 2002	WGC-American Express Championship(2)	−25 (65-65-67-66=263)	1 stroke	Retief Goosen
19	Mar 2, 2003	WGC-Accenture Match Play Championship	2 & 1		David Toms
20	Oct 5, 2003	WGC-American Express Championship(3)	−6 (67-66-69-72=274)	2 strokes	Stuart Appleby,  Tim Herron,  Vijay Singh
21	Feb 29, 2004	WGC-Accenture Match Play Championship (2)	3 & 2		Davis Love III
22	Apr 10, 2005	Masters Tournament (4)	−12 (74-66-65-71=276)	Playoff	Chris DiMarco
23	Jul 17, 2005	The Open Championship (2)	−14 (66-67-71-70=274)	5 strokes	Colin Montgomerie
24	Aug 21, 2005	WGC-NEC Invitational (4)	−6 (66-70-67-71=274)	1 stroke	Chris DiMarco
25	Oct 9, 2005	WGC-American Express Championship(4)	−10 (67-68-68-67=270)	Playoff	John Daly
26	Feb 5, 2006	Dubai Desert Classic	−19 (67-66-67-69=269)	Playoff	Ernie Els
27	Jul 23, 2006	The Open Championship (3)	−18 (67-65-71-67=270)	2 strokes	Chris DiMarco
28	Aug 20, 2006	PGA Championship (3)	−18 (69-68-65-68=270)	5 strokes	Shaun Micheel
29	Aug 27, 2006	WGC-Bridgestone Invitational (5)	−10 (67-64-71-68=270)	Playoff	Stewart Cink
30	Oct 1, 2006	WGC-American Express Championship(5)	−23 (63-64-67-67=261)	8 strokes	Ian Poulter,  Adam Scott
31	Mar 25, 2007	WGC-CA Championship (6)	−10 (71-66-68-73=278)	2 strokes	Brett Wetterich
32	Aug 5, 2007	WGC-Bridgestone Invitational (6)	−8 (68-70-69-65=272)	8 strokes	Justin Rose,  Rory Sabbatini
33	Aug 12, 2007	PGA Championship (4)	−8 (71-63-69-69=272)	2 strokes	Woody Austin
34	Feb 3, 2008	Dubai Desert Classic (2)	−14 (65-71-73-65=274)	1 stroke	Martin Kaymer
35	Feb 24, 2008	WGC-Accenture Match Play Championship (3)	8 & 7		Stewart Cink
36	Jun 16, 2008	U.S. Open (3)	−1 (72-68-70-73=283)	Playoff	Rocco Mediate
37	Aug 9, 2009	WGC-Bridgestone Invitational (7)	−12 (68-70-65-65=268)	4 strokes	Robert Allenby,  Pádraig Harrington
38	Nov 15, 2009	JBWere Masters1	−14 (66-68-72-68=274)	2 strokes	Greg Chalmers
39	Mar 10, 2013	WGC-Cadillac Championship (7)	−19 (66-65-67-71=269)	2 strokes	Steve Stricker
40	Aug 4, 2013	WGC-Bridgestone Invitational (8)	−15 (66-61-68-70=265)	7 strokes	Keegan Bradley,  Henrik Stenson
41	Apr 14, 2019	Masters Tournament (5)	−13 (70-68-67-70=275)	1 stroke	Dustin Johnson,  Brooks Koepka,  Xander Schauffele

 

[Cwing]

Tough call for me.
 

Nick the head banging Iron Maiden fan.

 

Phil lead vocalist of the hit “Bomb Song”.

 

it’s a pickem.

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Cwing

[isaacbm]

12 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Phil won two true Euro events. The 11 include majors and WGC events.

 

That said it’s still Phil > Faldo

And Faldo won 3 true PGA tour events... 🙂

 

Like I said I love Faldo. But Phil and him are tied for majors but Phil has 35 more Pga tour wins. 

Faldo has 19 more euro wins. 
35>19 (and that’s pretty generous as far as apples to apples go!)
 

I’ll concede Faldo had a better Ryder Cup record.  But honestly, I’m Canadian, and that whole event is just an exhibition to me. 
 

[Hawkeye77]

6 minutes ago, isaacbm said:

And Faldo won 3 true PGA tour events... 🙂

 

Like I said I love Faldo. But Phil and him are tied for majors but Phil has 35 more Pga tour wins. 

Faldo has 19 more euro wins. 
35>19 (and that’s pretty generous as far as apples to apples go!)
 

I’ll concede Faldo had a better Ryder Cup record.  But honestly, I’m Canadian, and that whole event is just an exhibition to me. 
 

The Queen is hearing about this!

[MUNIGRIT]

17 hours ago, MattyO1984 said:

 

Imagine if Phil himself didn’t choke as much? This thread would have been non-existent 😉

Yeah like Nick or any other golfer that has had sustained success over a long period hasn't choked a lot. I know everyone brings up winged foot but what majors are people really claiming Phil totally blew?? The whole Faldo vs Phil argument is like Koepka vs DJ.

[iBanesto]

 

But can Faldo do this?

[Christen_The_Sloop]

22 minutes ago, iBanesto said:

 

But can Faldo do this?

Bow to your sensei.

[bscinstnct]

9 hours ago, Christen_The_Sloop said:

Bow to your sensei.

 

 

[MUNIGRIT]

Why did Faldo suck at the US Open for the most part? A second once and a couple other decent efforts but a lot of bust rounds. Seems like the way he talks he should have won a bunch.

[Christosterone]

On 5/3/2020 at 9:01 PM, grm24 said:

Tiger hit 1 driver in the entire event. That one time was during the first round.

 

2006 Hoylake was, imho, the best ball striking planet earth has ever seen…

 

that was the most astonishing week of golf I’ve ever seen…

 

-chris

[Hawkeye77]

4 hours ago, Christosterone said:

 

2006 Hoylake was, imho, the best ball striking planet earth has ever seen…

 

that was the most astonishing week of golf I’ve ever seen…

 

-chris

Homeric!

 

I say in my best imitation of Barry Fitzgerald while looking at the broken bed in The Quiet Man!

[vman]

Tough compare. Totally different style of player. One, all about ball control and course management, determination and grind, the other, an exciting genius of a golfer who I'd pay to watch.

[bscinstnct]

Just happy the one word

 

”Faldo”

 

crew has been sent packin ; )