KHT Autoflex shaft

[rlb4]

1 hour ago, JMATHEEENS said:

I’ve got 6 rounds in with the AF and absolutely love it. Incredibly consistent and my driving distances have increased big time. I’ve hit several drives 270+ which were incredibly rare with me before I found this sweet sweet Korean Hidden Technology. 
 

I played a track just outside of Raleigh called Pine Hollow today. A course that I’ve played 20+ times and I was on parts of the course off the tee that I’ve never seen before. Hit 5 tee shots 275+ today and capped it off on 18 with a 305 yarder. 
 

The thing I love the best about the shaft is my mishits don’t kill me. I’ve got a one-way miss that typically stems from me getting quick and it’s more of a power fade. My mishit distances feel like they go 20+ yards farther than my mishits from my old gamer. 
 

I’m pairing with the Radspeed at 8* draw setting and just started playing the ProV1x left dash. It’s been a killer combo for me.  
 

I’ll get some swings in on a trackman tomorrow to see how it comps vs my old gamer (Cobra Speedzone with UST Helium shaft). But regardless my new setup has passed the eye test with flying colors.
 

I’m playing it at D2 weight btw. Tempted to order some additional weights but don’t want to mess with the good thing I have going now. 

That's awesome. What is your swing speed? How much does the Radspeed head weigh? Also, which shaft did you get, 505 or 505X?

Edited March 14, 2021 by rlb4
add q

[bcflyguy1]

11 hours ago, dodgyman said:

 

To each his own I guess, but calling it a scam is kind of nuts. Sure you can argue it's not worth 800$, but it's not some magic, they clearly found a way to produce a really light and really flexible shaft that stabilizes and doesn't go offline.

 

Can an average golfer swing a lighter shaft faster, yes. Can a shaft produce higher club head speed with extra load, yes. Do old school super soft/super light shafts work well for fast swingers, generally no.

 

Sure, you need the right weight, sure it may not fit all golfers the same, and I don't think this shaft needs/can fit everyone. For those who swing faster with heavier shafts or like the head weight a certain way it just won't work, doesn't mean it's a scam.

 

I've hit plenty of 800$ shafts, I practice in a place that's a fitter, and I've tried a ton just for fun. LA Golf, TourAD, etc... I've never seen distances/club speed paired with accuracy like this. Not a scam, I just bought a new driver/shaft that I loved and paid a lot for (Tour AD VR) after an extensive fitting maybe 3 weeks back, and this thing blew it out of the water. It took 20 minutes for me to beat what I was fit into for over an hour. I did not really want to replace a great feeling shaft I had just bought at 3x the price, I did because I could and it performed like nothing else.

 

It's not a scam, it might not be right for you, it might not be worth making swing changes to accommodate, but come on...

 

5 hours ago, DLiver said:

Well thanks for your opinion after testing it briefly. I've been playing this shaft for several rounds and a bunch of range time, and honestly I expected it to be mostly hype. However I was quite surprised to find that it delivered in both CHS and ball speed. I swing this club exactly the way I swing all my other clubs, and all my driver setups: full bore. I can move it both ways, but the tendency is to hit it straight. Crappy swings produce crappy results.

 

I have tried very light driver shafts before, including the highly regarded Prolaunch Blue 44 g shaft, and couldn't keep any of them on the planet. My golfing buddies have noticed the results I'm having, and five of them asked to try my driver this morning on the range before our round.

 

So yeah, I think I'm disagreeing with your diatribe against this shaft after you tested it briefly. It is expensive for sure, but for me it has really delivered.

I tested it only briefly because that's all the time needed to see the "Hidden Technology" for what it is. 

This is pretty much what I expected. I'm not the one who paid $800 dollars for a shaft with about as much stability as the pasta my kids ate for dinner and yet I am the one who's nuts? OK...

 

The only thing worse than coming to the realization that you've been sold a bill of goods is never actually coming to that realization when it happens because that pretty much guarantees that it will happen again. 15 years ago I got sucked into the whole BSG racket and the snake oil that "BigHitter" Todd was selling. I even ardently defended BSG when others would rightly point out what a fraudulent charlatan he was and how badly his business was robbing people. I had classic Stockholm Syndrome, but did eventually see the light and there's plenty of parallels between that and this whole AutoFlex thing. Market new/mysterious/niche product, make it available in bright colors, make a bunch of dubious claims about the technology and performance, charge a premium for it all etc. etc. It's the same business model, same shaky ethics, same neon colored fairy dust, and same true believers financing it.

 

It's your game and your money so as the Stranger in The Big Lebowski says, "OK Dude, have it your way."

 

[rlb4]

Does anyone have a listing of stock driver head weights and if there are different weight kits available? I thought someone had posted a few previously but can't find it. This could be a sticky as a reference so people know what they need to do to get those heads to the proper head weight range.

[dodgyman]

1 hour ago, PT1911 said:

What is the launch like with the AF? Higher I would assume?

Much higher. I had my epic speed at 10 degrees with my previous shaft, and went back to 9 and still launch higher. I may even try 8 degrees.

[dodgyman]

1 hour ago, bcflyguy1 said:

 

I tested it only briefly because that's all the time needed to see the "Hidden Technology" for what it is. 

This is pretty much what I expected. I'm not the one who paid $800 dollars for a shaft with about as much stability as the pasta my kids ate for dinner and yet I am the one who's nuts? OK...

 

The only thing worse than coming to the realization that you've been sold a bill of goods is never actually coming to that realization when it happens because that pretty much guarantees that it will happen again. 15 years ago I got sucked into the whole BSG racket and the snake oil that "BigHitter" Todd was selling. I even ardently defended BSG when others would rightly point out what a fraudulent charlatan he was and how badly his business was robbing people. I had classic Stockholm Syndrome, but did eventually see the light and there's plenty of parallels between that and this whole AutoFlex thing. Market new/mysterious/niche product, make it available in bright colors, make a bunch of dubious claims about the technology and performance, charge a premium for it all etc. etc. It's the same business model, same shaky ethics, same neon colored fairy dust, and same true believers financing it.

 

It's your game and your money so as the Stranger in The Big Lebowski says, "OK Dude, have it your way."

 

That’s cool, glad your one experience generalizes to the whole world. Not really sure what you’re trying to accomplish though. If you’re saying, don’t buy this unless you have launch monitor data to prove it, I agree. If you’re saying the launch monitor data is a fraud... well then I’m not sure.

 

People buy new drivers all the time with marginal gains, and shafts for less, but still a lot for hundreds even though outside of feel there’s very little in it. Yet if certain people are seeing 10 yards gains somehow that’s not worth it, and they’re being conned.

 

Is this tech magic, no. Does it cost 800 to manufacture? Probably not, but shafts are so cheap to produce relative to their MSRP that this feels no different.

 

The thing I don’t get is why something not working for you makes you compelled to believe it’s fake and works for no one. Given how hard these are to come by, opinions are great, positive and negative. I’m sure it’s rather informative to hear what didn’t work well for you, or that the feel is too loose and maybe not the right thing for you. That’s cool and all, but if you think my trackman and shotscope numbers are a lie then you’re delusional. This is the age of data, there’s no fooling this stuff.

 

Its also why I recommend anyone thinking about this to just try it out and get some numbers. It’s really the only opinion that matters.

Edited March 14, 2021 by dodgyman

[ewill48]

2 hours ago, bcflyguy1 said:

 

I tested it only briefly because that's all the time needed to see the "Hidden Technology" for what it is. 

This is pretty much what I expected. I'm not the one who paid $800 dollars for a shaft with about as much stability as the pasta my kids ate for dinner and yet I am the one who's nuts? OK...

 

The only thing worse than coming to the realization that you've been sold a bill of goods is never actually coming to that realization when it happens because that pretty much guarantees that it will happen again. 15 years ago I got sucked into the whole BSG racket and the snake oil that "BigHitter" Todd was selling. I even ardently defended BSG when others would rightly point out what a fraudulent charlatan he was and how badly his business was robbing people. I had classic Stockholm Syndrome, but did eventually see the light and there's plenty of parallels between that and this whole AutoFlex thing. Market new/mysterious/niche product, make it available in bright colors, make a bunch of dubious claims about the technology and performance, charge a premium for it all etc. etc. It's the same business model, same shaky ethics, same neon colored fairy dust, and same true believers financing it.

 

It's your game and your money so as the Stranger in The Big Lebowski says, "OK Dude, have it your way."

 

 

Thanks for stopping by.  Have a good one!

[JMATHEEENS]

3 hours ago, rlb4 said:

That's awesome. What is your swing speed? How much does the Radspeed head weigh? Also, which shaft did you get, 505 or 505X?

Driver SS is around 100 +/- and I’m not sure what the head weighs. I got the shaft cut down so now the club weighs D2. I’m working with a 505. 

[stealthall]

7 hours ago, bcflyguy1 said:

 

I tested it only briefly because that's all the time needed to see the "Hidden Technology" for what it is. 

This is pretty much what I expected. I'm not the one who paid $800 dollars for a shaft with about as much stability as the pasta my kids ate for dinner and yet I am the one who's nuts? OK...

 

The only thing worse than coming to the realization that you've been sold a bill of goods is never actually coming to that realization when it happens because that pretty much guarantees that it will happen again. 15 years ago I got sucked into the whole BSG racket and the snake oil that "BigHitter" Todd was selling. I even ardently defended BSG when others would rightly point out what a fraudulent charlatan he was and how badly his business was robbing people. I had classic Stockholm Syndrome, but did eventually see the light and there's plenty of parallels between that and this whole AutoFlex thing. Market new/mysterious/niche product, make it available in bright colors, make a bunch of dubious claims about the technology and performance, charge a premium for it all etc. etc. It's the same business model, same shaky ethics, same neon colored fairy dust, and same true believers financing it.

 

It's your game and your money so as the Stranger in The Big Lebowski says, "OK Dude, have it your way."

 

Your last line is exactly the point. Thanks for your opinion. I am 100% confident that I will waste more money on this sport in the near future. 

[kcsf]

11 hours ago, bcflyguy1 said:

 

I tested it only briefly because that's all the time needed to see the "Hidden Technology" for what it is. 

This is pretty much what I expected. I'm not the one who paid $800 dollars for a shaft with about as much stability as the pasta my kids ate for dinner and yet I am the one who's nuts? OK...

 

The only thing worse than coming to the realization that you've been sold a bill of goods is never actually coming to that realization when it happens because that pretty much guarantees that it will happen again. 15 years ago I got sucked into the whole BSG racket and the snake oil that "BigHitter" Todd was selling. I even ardently defended BSG when others would rightly point out what a fraudulent charlatan he was and how badly his business was robbing people. I had classic Stockholm Syndrome, but did eventually see the light and there's plenty of parallels between that and this whole AutoFlex thing. Market new/mysterious/niche product, make it available in bright colors, make a bunch of dubious claims about the technology and performance, charge a premium for it all etc. etc. It's the same business model, same shaky ethics, same neon colored fairy dust, and same true believers financing it.

 

It's your game and your money so as the Stranger in The Big Lebowski says, "OK Dude, have it your way."

 

 

Your displaced aggression is showing through. The shaft didn't work for you and it doesn't work for everyone, but why do you insist on stating absolutes and calling it a fraud? People have backed up their claims with data, do you feel that data is a fraud as well? 

 

Touch the shaft where "BigHitter" Todd hurt you.

 

[urjc22]

I am currently gaming a Ping g410LST with a 65S VA Nemesys at 45.25 playing length at 9 degrees (sometimes play it at 😎.  This set-up has been really good to me and I had not been thinking about a new set-up.  The Autoflex has me intrigued and yesterday I played with a buddy at my local club.  He is gaming the Autoflex with a Tsi3 at 8 degrees.  I hit his driver multiple times and definitely hit some good balls with it, however, we both agreed that it probably was a little too low loft for me.  I absolutely have loved the Ping head, however, keep reading that the Ping head doesn't pair well with the Autoflex.  Has anyone on this board had success with the Autoflex and the G410LST head at 45.25 length?  I have weighed my head without adapter and it is 205 grams (including the 12 gram back weight).  Thanks for any input!

[SEP1006]

11 hours ago, dodgyman said:

That’s cool, glad your one experience generalizes to the whole world. Not really sure what you’re trying to accomplish though. If you’re saying, don’t buy this unless you have launch monitor data to prove it, I agree. If you’re saying the launch monitor data is a fraud... well then I’m not sure.

 

People buy new drivers all the time with marginal gains, and shafts for less, but still a lot for hundreds even though outside of feel there’s very little in it. Yet if certain people are seeing 10 yards gains somehow that’s not worth it, and they’re being conned.

 

Is this tech magic, no. Does it cost 800 to manufacture? Probably not, but shafts are so cheap to produce relative to their MSRP that this feels no different.

 

The thing I don’t get is why something not working for you makes you compelled to believe it’s fake and works for no one. Given how hard these are to come by, opinions are great, positive and negative. I’m sure it’s rather informative to hear what didn’t work well for you, or that the feel is too loose and maybe not the right thing for you. That’s cool and all, but if you think my trackman and shotscope numbers are a lie then you’re delusional. This is the age of data, there’s no fooling this stuff.

 

Its also why I recommend anyone thinking about this to just try it out and get some numbers. It’s really the only opinion that matters.

 

Very well said !!!!!!

 

 

[PLLand55]

5 hours ago, urjc22 said:

I am currently gaming a Ping g410LST with a 65S VA Nemesys at 45.25 playing length at 9 degrees (sometimes play it at 😎.  This set-up has been really good to me and I had not been thinking about a new set-up.  The Autoflex has me intrigued and yesterday I played with a buddy at my local club.  He is gaming the Autoflex with a Tsi3 at 8 degrees.  I hit his driver multiple times and definitely hit some good balls with it, however, we both agreed that it probably was a little too low loft for me.  I absolutely have loved the Ping head, however, keep reading that the Ping head doesn't pair well with the Autoflex.  Has anyone on this board had success with the Autoflex and the G410LST head at 45.25 length?  I have weighed my head without adapter and it is 205 grams (including the 12 gram back weight).  Thanks for any input!

I played the G410 LST with 505X this past weekend. I took the back weight out and put lead tape on bottom front of face to get to D1 and playing length 46.5” with a CP2 Wrap Jumbo grip. 
 

Played on big - and I had pretty good performance with it. The good ones come out with a flat ball flight and slight draw. I probably could have lofted up. Also, very low spin. When it lands it hauls a** down the fairway. 
 

My swing speed is 115-120. 

Good Luck. 

[PLLand55]

My 505XX has come in. I’m going to build it at 45.5”. Still debating on which head! 

[ewill48]

2 hours ago, PLLand55 said:

My 505XX has come in. I’m going to build it at 45.5”. Still debating on which head! 

 

Start with the adapter brand that let you test multiple models and year releases of same OEM brand.  That'll give you some good initial test data.  Dont hesitate to test previous year releases well.  I am gaming a 2018 head on my autoflex.

[ewill48]

8 hours ago, urjc22 said:

I am currently gaming a Ping g410LST with a 65S VA Nemesys at 45.25 playing length at 9 degrees (sometimes play it at 😎.  This set-up has been really good to me and I had not been thinking about a new set-up.  The Autoflex has me intrigued and yesterday I played with a buddy at my local club.  He is gaming the Autoflex with a Tsi3 at 8 degrees.  I hit his driver multiple times and definitely hit some good balls with it, however, we both agreed that it probably was a little too low loft for me.  I absolutely have loved the Ping head, however, keep reading that the Ping head doesn't pair well with the Autoflex.  Has anyone on this board had success with the Autoflex and the G410LST head at 45.25 length?  I have weighed my head without adapter and it is 205 grams (including the 12 gram back weight).  Thanks for any input!

 

You really need 194 grams or less for the shaft to properly function.  You will need to lose the back weight.

[Lakelander]

I play 410 LST at 46.5" (SF505SX-ss 114-118) I have had good results at 194 (4.5 gram weight-D1.5)-198 gram head (8 gram weight D3.6).  I recommend you experiment with lighter back weights in addition to pulling the weight all together.

 

[junkfry]

On 3/14/2021 at 12:04 AM, bcflyguy1 said:

 

I tested it only briefly because that's all the time needed to see the "Hidden Technology" for what it is. 

This is pretty much what I expected. I'm not the one who paid $800 dollars for a shaft with about as much stability as the pasta my kids ate for dinner and yet I am the one who's nuts? OK...

 

The only thing worse than coming to the realization that you've been sold a bill of goods is never actually coming to that realization when it happens because that pretty much guarantees that it will happen again. 15 years ago I got sucked into the whole BSG racket and the snake oil that "BigHitter" Todd was selling. I even ardently defended BSG when others would rightly point out what a fraudulent charlatan he was and how badly his business was robbing people. I had classic Stockholm Syndrome, but did eventually see the light and there's plenty of parallels between that and this whole AutoFlex thing. Market new/mysterious/niche product, make it available in bright colors, make a bunch of dubious claims about the technology and performance, charge a premium for it all etc. etc. It's the same business model, same shaky ethics, same neon colored fairy dust, and same true believers financing it.

 

It's your game and your money so as the Stranger in The Big Lebowski says, "OK Dude, have it your way."

I do agree with you about "Bighitter" and how he was making a ton of money off BSG members. His thing back then was anything "tour-issue" was worth it's weight in gold and he was the first one to create the mystique around "tour-issue".  People bought into hard, but in the end it does have some credibility today with tour issued heads and clubs being spec'd out precisely.  Now this "hidden" technology thing sounds  goofy to me, but I'm sure they've done some materials research, testing and R&D to get to this final Autoflex product. Will I try it for $800.....probably not. Will I try one later on at $150....sure.   Remember the first $1000 dollar magical shaft back in the BSG days: Matrix Ozik TP-7? 
 

 

[RNG]

On 3/9/2021 at 1:32 AM, My2Dogs said:

I was told to never tip this shaft.  Straight from both the OEM and now the US Distributer.  Always butt cut to get to proper length.  
 

What I have found is that most people do really well with a head weight between 190-194 but 190-192 seems to really be good.  However some have gone lighter (I haven’t had the chance yet but am going to experiment once I get the SF505XX back) and some have gone heavier and have gotten good results.  You have to test but but I would say in 80% of the cases the 190-194 has been the optimal head weight.  I was told originally by the OEM that swing weight was where you have to be to dial it in for best results- no matter the length.  However after talker with the US Distributer, he says the head weight is the most important, no matter the swing weight as some play longer or shorter.  Also he says adding butt weight won’t make a huge difference as the magic is in the tip of the shaft and adding weight on the butt does nothing to lighten the head weight.  Does help with SW but as stated before the head weight is what matters most.  
 

I’ve found any head that either has a lot of adjustable weights (PXG) or ones with heavy weights that can be reduced (Cally line and even Ping because of the one large weight) work best.  I haven’t hit the AF with the Titleist but would assume it would work due do the larger weight.  Even the Sim was easy to dial in as I swapped out both the front and back weight to get to 190.  Also found at 190g I was able to play a high fade but did not add too much spin so it got really good distance and even roll. 
 

i always tell people to go up a flex when getting an AF.

 

 1) it gives you faster swing speed and ball speed than your current set up (most times).  I went up 4-5 mph in swing speed and 5mph in ball speed.  That’s with not so great smash factors so far.  I think once I get to play more and get used to the faster speeds my smash factor will go up and so will my ball speeds. 

2) IMO and also a couple fitters, the AF was first made for the Asian market.  They don’t usually swing as fast and have as aggressive transitions as players in the US market.  

 I have an AF 405 (46" playing length). So I have a Callaway MAX LS that weights 182 grams without any sliding weights installed, but with the Callaway Opti-Fit adapter weights 9 grams and then this would fit your recommendation of 191 gram head weight?

 

Thanks for your input!!!

[ThorntonMelon]

Im going to stay out of the back and forth of the value of the shaft, because you're paying 400+ for shafts all over the place, and so this one while very expensive, isn't so far out of the way that it's worth the argument. 

 

I have two high level points about this driver before getting into my experience.

 

1. Indoor numbers are fine, and they will show increased distance for slow tempo golfers I think without hesitation, but on the golf course, if you get quick because of pressure or whatever else, you'll feel the kick/instability (though see #2)

 

2. You need this head at 190-194 grams. I played it at 198 (I think, stock, anyways) and I just felt it kick too hard anytime I got quick at all. I can't wait to get a lighter weight into it and see how it plays.

 

Now the longer - this thing has the most unique feeling I've ever felt in a driver shaft. It really does feel like a whip at contact. It's legit 5-10 yards longer than my gamer even outside, and I think it would be a difference maker for me locked in.

 

I was playing with a 10* TSI2. Wrong head and loft. I'm trading down for a 9* Radspeed probably turned down to 8. Much as I'd prefer the independent loft/lie adapter of the TSI2 and I considered going TSI3, at the end of the day I think the Radspeed head is the right pairing for it. This thing just freaking launches. I am a low ball hitter and I was hitting drives that just never landed - my playing partners commented on it repeatedly. Too much spin unfortunately with that head pairing and weight, so seeing the change with the weight change would be huge, and I am guessing when everything is done I'll be very happy with the setup. 

 

I hit very few fairways with my driver in 2 rounds as the head was kicking all over the place, but I am very comfortable it will be my long term driver once i get it dialed in. No need for changes in swing or anything. You just do need to tweak all the driver settings. 

 

To the person who wanted to play at 205, maybe if it's cut way down and it just works for you - but I'd be shocked if it worked. It was a real problem for me at 198. 

 

Hope this helps a little.

[DLiver]

@ThorntonMelon What is your driver CHS and which AF are you playing?

[JMATHEEENS]

Got another round in yesterday and was on parts of a course (Prestonwood CC Highlands) that I've never been on before. I think the more live rounds you get in with the AF the more dialed-in you can get. It took me maybe two rounds to get comfortable with the shaft and since then over my last five rounds I've been in a nice groove and my scores have been super consistent (81-80-80 this past weekend).  

 

My dispersion on the Radspeed AF is great as my mishits are more power fades and I think that stems me not transferring my weight properly. Either way it doesn't kill me whereas a mishit on my old gamer would.  

 

I need to order a few additional Radspeed weights to see if that makes a difference, but overall I am incredibly happy with the purchase. 

 

 

[rlb4]

Is the recommended head weight of 190-194 grams with or without the adapter?

[V series]

The head weight is dependent on shaft length. 

 

My Radspeed is 187 grams with 2 gram weights in both spots. I didn't cut my autoflex, so I have to go light on the head to get my D1.5 swing weight.

 

I think the low spin of the Radspeed and the high launch of the autoflex is the right combo for me. I am not yet convinced that I need to cut the shaft down yet.

[solismr]

2 minutes ago, V series said:

The head weight is dependent on shaft length. 

 

My Radspeed is 187 grams with 2 gram weights in both spots. I didn't cut my autoflex, so I have to go light on the head to get my D1.5 swing weight.

 

I think the low spin of the Radspeed and the high launch of the autoflex is the right combo for me. I am not yet convinced that I need to cut the shaft down yet.

So the 187 grams with your Radspeed is without the adapter weight included, correct?

[V series]

Correct, the adapter weight is not included in my 187 grams.

[enfuego]

It has been mentioned but because 6-9 grams can make all the difference everyone should be commenting their head weights to specify with or without adapter as well as playing length and specific shaft. I think that will help a lot of people shorten up the time it takes to test and dial in.

 

At the beginning of my autoflex testing I looked up other reputable members on here to see what head weight included. I found that head weight should always include adapter weight. Now because most people have the adapters installed on the shaft they will take the head off and weigh it then report it. Because everyone will have varying levels of knowledge just always specify with or without adapter.

[ThorntonMelon]

94 mph, 140 or so ball speed, very smooth tempo, 505 auto flex

[ThorntonMelon]

I have never thought to weigh the adapter, probably makes sense to have folks keep them all in the same place in a pinned thread. Hell, I'd guess the ferrule/collar would affect things as well come to think of it

[DLiver]

I would be very surprised if the head weights people are talking about include the adaptor. In my case, the Epic head without adaptor weighed 194g. With adaptor included, it would be around 208g. I changed some weights in the head to get it down to 187g (again without adaptor), and the AF played very nicely. I removed some weights completely and got it down to 179g (I think), and the performance got worse rather than better. I could be wrong tho..

[ewill48]

G400 Max = 194 grams without adapter.  Since none of these modern heads are glue-in, the weight "you" can control is always gonna be purely in the head.  I mean really, what are you gonna do without the adapter?  I view that as a constant.

 

I always assumed these weight proclamations are pure head weights cause the adapters are already fixed to the shaft.