Taylormade SIM 2.0

[ASN21]

13 minutes ago, jds101086 said:

About as well as it will for TM for me. I was a religious TM driver user since the Orange headed days, but stopped after the M3. If this has a shape even close to the Sim then it'll be another year never having a TM driver on the golf course. Crazy times when their irons are the best looking(and performing) part of their lineup. 

It’s a good thing you cannot see the bottom of a driver at address 

[jds101086]

5 minutes ago, ASN21 said:

It’s a good thing you cannot see the bottom of a driver at address 

Well the shape and this year the color extends to the top. So it's a double no on looks alone.

[dan040286]

Got word from my source that the face is forged from Beskar! Will deliver more Force than any driver out there. 

[ProjectX]

8 hours ago, dan040286 said:

Got word from my source that the face is forged from Beskar! Will deliver more Force than any driver out there. 

 

8 hours ago, dan040286 said:

Got word from my source that the face is forged from Beskar! Will deliver more Force than any driver out there. 

Does that mean the Wish.com knockoffs will deliver more Schwartz?

[JasonPetermann]

Well why the heck not...  everyone else seems to want to see it, so I will ask also, can someone dm me pics? 

[LIGHT THE CANDLE]

17 hours ago, sethdavidsdad said:

Are the pics correct?

Not sure which pics you’ve seen.

[ProjectX]

If someone wants to PM me pics that would be great. But I think I'd be more excited about one of those Microsoft Paint recreations like the fella did with the Rad Cobra being posted in this thread.

[EMA1]

I’m sure this has been said before, but as a graphic designer, those images floating around look like a poor rendering that makes me wonder if it’s real. Not one you would expect from a giant like TM. 

[ProjectX]

10 minutes ago, erikalfstad said:

I’m sure this has been said before, but as a graphic designer, those images floating around look like a poor rendering that makes me wonder if it’s real. Not one you would expect from a giant like TM. 

If I was in the marketing department for a club company I'd leak some failed prototypes that are hideous and pull the okie doke on them with a bad a** club at release. People on WRX would have a heart attack. 

[ProjectX]

1 hour ago, erikalfstad said:

I’m sure this has been said before, but as a graphic designer, those images floating around look like a poor rendering that makes me wonder if it’s real. Not one you would expect from a giant like TM. 

Now that I have been sent an abundance of pics(thank you WRXers) I can confirm that the renderings are the real deal as someone sent me in hand pics that match the renderings to a T. At least the sole of the club anyways.

 

Two key take aways:

 

#1 the color scheme isn't that bad. It's not great but it's also not Nike's final release bad.

 

#2 The removal of MWT is kind of a shock. Especially given that every head seems draw biased. Gotta wonder if there is a Tour head coming with a more neutral or even fade biased weight. Otherwise there will be a ton of hot melt being used this year.

[Gobe3]

Would love to see it, can’t decide if going to hold out or pick up a SIM now. 

[dearth12]

Would love to have a pic sent my way. 
 

thanks

[beedub96]

I would also love pics sent my way please. 

[ProjectX]

1 hour ago, Gobe3 said:

Would love to see it, can’t decide if going to hold out or pick up a SIM now. 

If you like the current SIM I would say grab one. The story here is clearly going to be the weight savings of a completely Carbon sole and where they were able to move the weight they saved because of it. There is no MWT on these heads. If that's something you liked about the current SIM go with that.

 

The SIM2 is a massive jump from a wildly successful product. They could have easily just released a simple update to the SIM or kept the SIM line for another season because it's that good. Instead they went way out on a limb. If the SIM2 beats the current SIM in testing they will still sell a ton of them. If it's equal to or not as good as SIM it will be a massive flop. Hopefully, for their sake, it's not R1 bad.

[stevechooster]

1 hour ago, ProjectX said:

Now that I have been sent an abundance of pics(thank you WRXers) I can confirm that the renderings are the real deal as someone sent me in hand pics that match the renderings to a T. At least the sole of the club anyways.

 

Two key take aways:

 

#1 the color scheme isn't that bad. It's not great but it's also not Nike's final release bad.

 

#2 The removal of MWT is kind of a shock. Especially given that every head seems draw biased. Gotta wonder if there is a Tour head coming with a more neutral or even fade biased weight. Otherwise there will be a ton of hot melt being used this year.

 

Haven't seen the pics and don't care for much spoilers, but I've also heard about the MWT going out the window... assuming what Ping and Titleist have done will be what future drivers will look like to promote higher MOI and lower CG. Although, I heard SIM 2.0 is more like Callaway SZ in respect to the weight system. 

 

Curious to see what they've done to the 3/5 Woods more than the driver IMO. 

 

[stevechooster]

5 minutes ago, ProjectX said:

If you like the current SIM I would say grab one. The story here is clearly going to be the weight savings of a completely Carbon sole and where they were able to move the weight they saved because of it. There is no MWT on these heads. If that's something you liked about the current SIM go with that.

 

The SIM2 is a massive jump from a wildly successful product. They could have easily just released a simple update to the SIM or kept the SIM line for another season because it's that good. Instead they went way out on a limb. If the SIM2 beats the current SIM in testing they will still sell a ton of them. If it's equal to or not as good as SIM it will be a massive flop. Hopefully, for their sake, it's not R1 bad.

 

Do you feel like the reaction will be like a Ping G425 / Titleist TSi, better, or worse? 

[Yzmerf]

 I have to say my current set up is probably the best driver i have ever had, and i have been playing a really one time. With that said newer is better right? Anyone willing to send over some pics i would appreciate it 

[ProjectX]

7 minutes ago, stevechooster said:

 

Haven't seen the pics and don't care for much spoilers, but I've also heard about the MWT going out the window... assuming what Ping and Titleist have done will be what future drivers will look like to promote higher MOI and lower CG. Although, I heard SIM 2.0 is more like Callaway SZ in respect to the weight system. 

 

Curious to see what they've done to the 3/5 Woods more than the driver IMO. 

 

You can't swap the front and back weights like a Mavrik SZ or Cobra Speedzone. The front weight is just a circle and the rear weight looks similar to the one on the current SIM. While I'm sure you can probably get heavier and lighter weights for each it's certainly not going to be as user friendly to do so.

[stevechooster]

1 minute ago, ProjectX said:

You can't swap the front and back weights like a Mavrik SZ or Cobra Speedzone. The front weight is just a circle and the rear weight looks similar to the one on the current SIM. While I'm sure you can probably get heavier and lighter weights for each it's certainly not going to be as user friendly to do so.

 

Whaaaa... really? That doesn't sound like anything on the forefront of technology... I personally think what Ping and Titleist has done will be the future, but if it's just circles... eh. I've spent enough money on my current bag and will likely spend more money in the future on irons and wedges so I think my current SIM head will do me just fine haha

[ProjectX]

8 minutes ago, stevechooster said:

 

Do you feel like the reaction will be like a Ping G425 / Titleist TSi, better, or worse? 

Considering drivers have been at maximum allowable exit speed for a while now I just can't see a massive jump in ball speed being available. Because of that I would lean towards the SIM2 being a flop. 

 

That said if the massive jump in ball speed is there it will sell like crazy.

[stevechooster]

1 minute ago, ProjectX said:

Considering drivers have been at maximum allowable exit speed for a while now I just can't see a massive jump in ball speed being available. Because of that I would lean towards the SIM2 being a flop. 

 

That said if the massive jump in ball speed is there it will sell like crazy.

 

Good point... it does appear all brands are pushing their heads to be at the legal limit, so in terms of what's possible, what more can someone do I suppose... lol

[Valtiel]

14 minutes ago, ProjectX said:

Considering drivers have been at maximum allowable exit speed for a while now I just can't see a massive jump in ball speed being available. Because of that I would lean towards the SIM2 being a flop. 

 

That said if the massive jump in ball speed is there it will sell like crazy.

We will never see a massive jump in ball speed with the current legal limitations. What we will see is the ability to further optimize launch conditions and achieve low spin while maintaining extremely high stability forgiveness. The truly low CG, high MOI driver which has not yet been made. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Valtiel

[stevechooster]

16 minutes ago, ProjectX said:

You can't swap the front and back weights like a Mavrik SZ or Cobra Speedzone. The front weight is just a circle and the rear weight looks similar to the one on the current SIM. While I'm sure you can probably get heavier and lighter weights for each it's certainly not going to be as user friendly to do so.

 

 Okay, so... it's different, to say the least hahaha. 

 

Idk what the top looks like, but based on the bottom, it'll sell. As much as the current SIM? No, because I think TM really killed it with the SIM design and color scheme. 

 

With that said, would I personally trade in a perfectly fine driver to simply have the newer one? No. 

 

[stevechooster]

2 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

We will never see a massive jump in ball speed with the current legal limitations. What we will see is the ability to further optimize launch conditions and achieve low spin while maintaining extremely high stability forgiveness. The truly low CG, high MOI driver which has not yet been made. 

 

Wouldn't a design that has weight in the back towards the sole (i.e. G425 / TSi) achieve low CG / high MOI? 

 

[stevechooster]

 

43 minutes ago, ProjectX said:

You can't swap the front and back weights like a Mavrik SZ or Cobra Speedzone. The front weight is just a circle and the rear weight looks similar to the one on the current SIM. While I'm sure you can probably get heavier and lighter weights for each it's certainly not going to be as user friendly to do so.

23 minutes ago, stevechooster said:

 

 Okay, so... it's different, to say the least hahaha. 

 

Idk what the top looks like, but based on the bottom, it'll sell. As much as the current SIM? No, because I think TM really killed it with the SIM design and color scheme. 

 

With that said, would I personally trade in a perfectly fine driver to simply have the newer one? No. 

 

 

Alright... so the design is pretty modern looking. Color scheme looks dope, too. This will sell... haha. Still, it won't do as well as how the SIM line has done, IMO. 

 

The weight situation on the sole, I think, won't be enough for a lot of people to jump SIM to SIM 2.0. 

 

If I was looking for a driver, I would try this. 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by stevechooster

[Valtiel]

On 11/29/2020 at 7:36 PM, stevechooster said:

 

Wouldn't a design that has weight in the back towards the sole (i.e. G425 / TSi) achieve low CG / high MOI? 

 

Moving the weight down and back like that is definitely a step in the right direction, yes, especially compared to heads like the M4/M5 which pushed the weight up as it went back, but more needs to be done to truly achieve the area highlighted in pink at the bottom right of the Driver CG Report's chart:



Nothing has touched that zone in the last 6 years, and the significance of that is twofold. One, driver construction as we prefer to see it (fairly traditional shapes and face depths) has limitations in terms of how much discretional weight you can free up and move rearward. It will likely take another material advancement to reach this area, likely in face tech (lighter). Or two, manufacturers know that this is likely the end of the line in terms of meaningful performance gains. A driver with ~5,400 MOI and a CG at the neutral axis will likely be the next jump forward, because the further back and down you go, the easier it is to achieve higher launch and lower spin, which = distance gains, all without sacrificing stability. Basically taking a G400 MAX and knocking off 500+ rpm while raising launch without losing any forgiveness. That will feel like a game changer for a lot of people, and my prediction last year was that it would take probably 5-6 driver releases before everyone gets there. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by Valtiel

[stevechooster]

5 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Moving the weight down and back like that is definitely a step in the right direction, yes, especially compared to heads like the M4/M5 which pushed the weight up as it went back, but more needs to be done to truly achieve the area highlighted in pink at the bottom right of the Driver CG Report's chart:



Nothing has touched that zone in the last 6 years, and the significance of that twofold. One, driver construction as we prefer to see it (fairly traditional shapes and face depths) has limitations in terms of how much discretional weight you can free up and move rearward. It will likely take another material advancement to reach this area, likely in face tech (lighter). Or two, manufacturers know that this is likely the end of the line in terms of meaningful performance gains. A driver with ~5,400 MOI and a CG at the neutral axis will likely be the next jump forward, because further back and down you go, the easier it is to achieve higher launch and lower spin, which = distance gains, all without sacrificing stability. Basically taking a G400 MAX and knocking off 500+ rpm while raising launch without losing any forgiveness. That will feel like a game changer for a lot of people, and my prediction last year was that it would take probably 5-6 driver releases before everyone gets there. 

 

I'd assume companies would also have to consider options within the head for the market, as in, interchangeable weights and/or moveable weights? I wonder who will achieve this first...

 

I would think somewhere down the line, there comes a crossroad where one looks to achieve that pink area compared to someone who has to consider the reality that the mass consumer base doesn't hit dead center and needs to provide options within the club head? I mean, I'm sure tour players would opt more for adjustability in the head than further distance since it's a game of chess not checkers for them? 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by stevechooster

[Valtiel]

34 minutes ago, stevechooster said:

 

I'd assume companies would also have to consider options within the head for the market, as in, interchangeable weights and/or moveable weights? 

 

I would think somewhere down the line, there comes a crossroad where one looks to achieve that pink area compared to someone who has to consider the reality that the mass consumer base doesn't hit dead center and needs to provide options within the club head? I mean, I'm sure tour players would opt more for adjustability in the head than further distance since it's a game of chess not checkers for them? 

 

Adjustability usually comes at a cost since the head design to support it (especially weight tracks) eats up a lot of discretionary weight. I think Titleist and PING are dead on with their current takes on this, and I think the 3 model formula that PING and Taylormade have leaned in to could be better optimised to replace the concept of moveable weight to a certain extent. Giant weight tracks all over the head ala M1/M3/M5 were always going to be phased out at some point because their design is inherently inefficient. Pros are also going to care very little about weight adjustability because they can just get light tour issue heads and have them hotmelted to whatever spec they want (see the DJ driver build Taylormade video). More and more tour pros are either attempting to completely max out their launch conditions (Bryson/Rory etc) or stay locked in to their preferred shape and window (DJ, Tiger, Morikawa, Rahm). Adam Scott and Sergio have both made a move towards the former category as well.

Also with regards to the concern about the masses and dead center contact, the higher the MOI the more help they get, so there isn't really a tradeoff there. On paper, literally everyone benefits from a driver down in that pink area as long as it is fit to them properly. All you need to do to cover the mass market is offer a fade, neutral, and draw biased model within the line and if possible, a little adjustability like the new Titleist/PING models have.   

Edited November 30, 2020 by Valtiel

[djhgolf]

Please PM pics!

thanks to a great community 👍🏽

[stevechooster]

1 minute ago, Valtiel said:

Adjustability usually comes at a cost since the head design to support it (especially weight tracks) eats up a lot of discretionary weight. I think Titleist and PING are head on with their current takes on this, and I think the 3 model formula that PING and Taylormade have leaned in to could be better optimised to replace the concept of moveable weight to a certain extent. Giant weight tracks all over the head ala M1/M3/M5 were always going to be phased out at some point because their design is inherently inefficient. Pros are also going to care very little about weight adjustability because they can just get light tour issue heads and have them hotmelted to whatever spec they want (see the DJ driver build Taylormade video). More and more tour pros are either attempting to completely max out their launch conditions (Bryson/Rory etc) or stay locked in to their preferred shape and window (DJ, Tiger, Morikawa, Rahm). Adam Scott and Sergio have both made a move towards the former category as well.

Also with regards to the concern about the masses and dead center contact, the higher the MOI the more help they get, so there isn't really a tradeoff there. On paper, literally everyone benefits from a driver down in that pink area as long as it is fit to them properly. All you need to do to cover the mass market is offer a fade, neutral, and draw biased model within the line and if possible, a little adjustability like the new Titleist/PING models have.   

 

Very insightful info for a noob but curious person like me. I guess for tour players, they won't ever have an issue since equipment is endless and free for them.