Carts more popular than walking nowadays...used to be the other way 'round.

[The Pearl]

10 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

I simply don't understand where this myth that carts speed play came from. OK, if the course is basically empty, and every player has their own cart, it might shave a few minutes off the round. I can walk most courses in 2:20 (average). With cart it's 2:00 to 2:15. However, on a typical day with a full tee sheet and players sharing carts it's a wash at best. If the clowns riding don't know how to properly use a cart the walker is definitely faster. I know because I'm the fast walker. I've played hundreds of rounds where I'm the only walker in the group, and I'm the first on the green the vast majority of the time. I played a typical subdivision layout in Arizona today. 200 yds between holes? 2.5 minutes. The round took 3:40. The guys I played with rode, and they never once waited for me. I was the first on the teebox on the majority of the holes. Didn't really matter though. We waited on practically every shot given the four players in front of us were riding (2 carts). 

 

I've said it for years based on over a thousand rounds played. If carts sped up play every resort in the country would be bragging about their 3 hour pace of play. 

 

I have come to the same conclusion.  I play with two groups, 3 walkers in one, 4 walkers in the other. We very rarely have a group of players in a cart pull away from us. We routinely wait for players in carts with space between them and the next group. People are glued to the cart like it is going to be stolen out from under them if they have to grab a couple of clubs and walk 50 yds. I am surprised some even manage to get out of the cart to actually hit a shot.

[david.c.w]

2 hours ago, ColinKelvin said:

I didn't mean to imply that Americans are lazy and fat, either.

 

Oh lots of us are fat and lazy, but not all of us.  I am actually fat, and lazy, but I do like to walk sometimes (see previous post).  Someone else mentioned it (cant find the post), but riding is the default in the US, and it is just a culture thing.  I guess I am just tired of everyone who is passionate about walking crapping on someone who rides.  Even @Argonne69 just above called riders "clowns".  If you want to walk, walk.  If you want to ride, ride.  I have seen fast walkers, and slow walkers.  I have seen fivesomes faster than threesomes.  I have seen fast riders, and slow riders.  Blanket statements like walking or riding is always faster is just wrong.

 

Also, Pinehurst #2 is probably the the least representative of a typical US course that i can think of.  Built 113 years ago with the tees literally right next to the green, and pretty flat.  And July/August where I play is 95F/35C on a whim, with summer storms that dump rain and then the sun blazes again.  Have you ever walked up a wet fairway with literal steam coming up from the ground?  I am not trying to diminish your statements but trying to educate some to the realities of US golf.  I would for sure prefer to walk, however if walking actually diminishes my experience and enjoyment, I am not going to do it that day.

 

Now for fun, who wants to start a thread about people who carry vs people who use a push cart vs people who used a motorized cart?

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by david.c.w

[Argonne69]

36 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

Oh lots of us are fat and lazy, but not all of us.  I am actually fat, and lazy, but I do like to walk sometimes (see previous post).  Someone else mentioned it (cant find the post), but riding is the default in the US, and it is just a culture thing.  I guess I am just tired of everyone who is passionate about walking crapping on someone who rides.  Even @Argonne69 just above called riders "clowns".  If you want to walk, walk.  If you want to ride, ride.  I have seen fast walkers, and slow walkers.  I have seen fivesomes faster than threesomes.  I have seen fast riders, and slow riders.  Blanket statements like walking or riding is always faster is just wrong.

 

Also, Pinehurst #2 is probably the the least representative of a typical US course that i can think of.  Built 113 years ago with the tees literally right next to the green, and pretty flat.  And July/August where I play is 95F/35C on a whim, with summer storms that dump rain and then the sun blazes again.  Have you ever walked up a wet fairway with literal steam coming up from the ground?  I am not trying to diminish your statements but trying to educate some to the realities of US golf.  I would for sure prefer to walk, however if walking actually diminishes my experience and enjoyment, I am not going to do it that day.

 

Now for fun, who wants to start a thread about people who carry vs people who use a push cart vs people who used a motorized cart?

 

 

 

I've walked in all conditions. Wet, cold and windy? Check. Hot (105+) and humid? Check. Flat or hilly? Check. Adjacent teeboxes or 200+ yds between holes? Check. 

 

I've walked more rounds than I can count on courses that people say are unwalkable. Bah. I haven't walked a single course where I finished the round and said to myself, "Ugh. That was a mistake." A workout? Sure. Torture? Hardly. 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Argonne69

[david.c.w]

6 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I've walked in all conditions. Wet, cold and windy? Check. Hot (105+) and humid? Check. Flat or hilly? Check. Adjacent teeboxes or 200+ yds between holes? Check. 

 

I've walked more rounds than I can count on courses that people say are unwalkable. Bah. I haven't walked a single course where I finished the round and said to myself, "Ugh. That was a mistake." A workout? Sure. Torture? Hardly. 

 

 

Well I guess that settles it.  @Argonne69 is the best guy in the world and anyone who does not live up this standards may as well quit golf and take up Sudoku and the USA Today crossword.

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by david.c.w

[Argonne69]

12 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

Well I guess that settles it.  @Argonne69 is the best guy in the world and anyone who does not live up this standards may as well quit golf and take up Sudoku and the USA Today crossword.

 

 

It's obviously a cultural thing. Today's course was pancake flat. Typical housing development course with no more than 15 feet of elevation change. The weather couldn't have been better, mid 60s with no wind, and not a cloud in the sky. The course was 6000 yds from the tips. As far as I could see I was the only player walking. Other than extreme age or injury, there was no reason why a typical healthy player couldn't walk. 

 

Stop making excuses. You want to ride? Ride. Just don't tell us that the course is not walkable. I've played over 650 courses, and haven't found but a handful that would be extremely difficult to walk. The vast, vast majority of courses in the U.S. are walkable. 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Argonne69

[swagee]

On 11/9/2020 at 11:44 AM, RoyalMustang said:

Today I was paying for my round and the guy behind the register handed me a cart key and said "sorry, habit-nobody walks". It got me thinking.  I don't think this is entirely accurate, as I usually walk, and the last 4 people I have played 18 with both walked, but he is mostly right.  Growing up in the late 80s and playing a lot of golf, most of the older people I knew at the course preferred to walk: they wouldn't take a cart if it were free as they considered walking part of the golfing experience and part of what they enjoyed about the sport.  A few people used carts but it was typically confined to older, less mobile people, or the Friday-Night Fights scramble guys that were lugging around cases of beer.  75 degrees and a perfect fall day; we don't get too many of those.  The guys I normall play with probably wouldn't play if they couldn't have a cart: never mind that they are late 20s and were all college athletes.  

 

When did perceptions change?  It could be a fitness thing (people tend to be much more overweight these days and may not be physically capable of walking 7-8 miles), but there is more to it than that.   We can all see that people don't look like they used to (image from the Pebble Beach Shell wide world of golf below-the crowd is walking 18 along with the players).

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

 

 

2 reasons that i could think of.

1. The speed of play. Golf is more popular than ever before, and there probably are more beginners/high hdc than advanced players, so they'll take longer to finish a round. Thus, riding is a better option if u don't want to see balls falling out of the sky. 

2. Profit. Tee times are scheduled to the minute to maximize a golf course's profit. The faster the pace, the more tee times they can squeeze in per day. It makes sense. 

[Argonne69]

3 minutes ago, swagee said:

2 reasons that i could think of.

1. The speed of play. Golf is more popular than ever before, and there probably are more beginners/high hdc than advanced players, so they'll take longer to finish a round. Thus, riding is a better option if u don't want to see balls falling out of the sky. 

2. Profit. Tee times are scheduled to the minute to maximize a golf course's profit. The faster the pace, the more tee times they can squeeze in per day. It makes sense. 

 

Bull sh-t. Carts do not speed up play for your typical beginner. Put two in a cart and it's definitely going to slow things down. Zig. Zag. 

 

Funny, but my fastest rounds always seem to be on courses where the majority of players are walking. 5 to 6 hour rounds? Always on courses that the majority of players ride. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Argonne69

[swagee]

7 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Bull sh-t. Carts do not speed up play for your typical beginner. Put two in a cart and it's definitely going to slow things down. Zig. Zag. 

Agree. Most personal opinions are bullxxxx. 

[david.c.w]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Bull sh-t. Carts do not speed up play for your typical beginner. Put two in a cart and it's definitely going to slow things down. Zig. Zag. 

 

Hey, we agree on something!  Beginners would be better walking.  Played with a 25 recently.  He parked at 60 yards out.  Hit one short and right (path on the left), and WALKED to the green and then putted out and had to walk back to his cart.  

 

Not knowing how to drive and park are an issue for beginners.  

 

However I think the post was about using a cart for incoming bombs from newbies.

[Hawkeye77]

On 11/9/2020 at 1:44 PM, RoyalMustang said:

Today I was paying for my round and the guy behind the register handed me a cart key and said "sorry, habit-nobody walks". It got me thinking.  I don't think this is entirely accurate, as I usually walk, and the last 4 people I have played 18 with both walked, but he is mostly right.  Growing up in the late 80s and playing a lot of golf, most of the older people I knew at the course preferred to walk: they wouldn't take a cart if it were free as they considered walking part of the golfing experience and part of what they enjoyed about the sport.  A few people used carts but it was typically confined to older, less mobile people, or the Friday-Night Fights scramble guys that were lugging around cases of beer.  75 degrees and a perfect fall day; we don't get too many of those.  The guys I normall play with probably wouldn't play if they couldn't have a cart: never mind that they are late 20s and were all college athletes.  

 

When did perceptions change?  It could be a fitness thing (people tend to be much more overweight these days and may not be physically capable of walking 7-8 miles), but there is more to it than that.   We can all see that people don't look like they used to (image from the Pebble Beach Shell wide world of golf below-the crowd is walking 18 along with the players).

 

Thoughts? 

 

 

 

 

Carts overtaking walkers isn’t a recent phenomenon. 

[pktaske]

3 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Bull sh-t. Carts do not speed up play for your typical beginner. Put two in a cart and it's definitely going to slow things down. Zig. Zag. 

 

Funny, but my fastest rounds always seem to be on courses where the majority of players are walking. 5 to 6 hour rounds? Always on courses that the majority of players ride. 

 

Saying you and the folks you play with are proficient at walking and play a fast round is one thing. Saying that, all things being equal, walking is faster than astute cart play is an untruth.

 

I play as a walk on single a lot. When in a cart, I can't think of any single instance where a walker beats me to the next tee box unless it's a side by side hole (and even then its close). In fact, I'm constantly passing them on the paths on courses that are set up more linear. If I wasn't waiting for the group in front of me, I'd be in front of them 2-3 holes minimum by the turn.

 

Beginners are a mess either way. I see them all walking together to go look for one guys ball then have to trapse back to their own.

 

 

[Fairway14]

9 hours ago, ColinKelvin said:

 

 

Here, <1% of golfers take a cart, and almost always for disability reasons.

 

Do the courses have 200 plus yard distances from a green to the next tee box ?

[Fairway14]

5 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

. I can walk most courses in 2:20 (average).

 

 

Par 3 courses ?

[Pfish]

Most of my friends walk with either motorized push carts or push carts.  We don’t have 5 hour rounds and complain when it’s over 4 and play about 20 times per month.  Average age is probably 65.  We drink afterwards.  The course is over 100 years old so green to tee not excessive.  A majority of the members walk all ages especially this year.  But it’s the youngest and oldest who prefer riding it seems at least at my club.  If I didn’t walk golfing I wouldn’t get much exercise. And at least 3 months of winter will be starting any day now.  Today there were 3 of us over 70 and a new member  under 40.  Said with friends likes to ride more casual, play twice sometimes but with gyms closed, working from home walking a lot more than last year.

[lefty1978]

I started playing golf late 90's in Connecticut, I can't remember ever taking a cart. Probably because I was broke at the time, but I was young and fit so never even thought about it. I moved to North Carolina in 2004 and found most folks used a cart. I still walked some, but the courses here were built around sprawling neighborhoods and just not fun to walk. My current club, full private club, most walk except for hot summer afternoons. The course is beautifully set up to walk.

[RoyalMustang]

On 11/10/2020 at 6:21 AM, soregongolfer said:

Despite living under 2 hours away from Bandon Dunes, my golf partner has never played there and never will.  Why?  No carts.  He absolutely will not play without a cart.  Not even 9 holes.  

 

Did you get him a pacifier and a box of Pampers for his birthday?  Yikes

 

If you need a playing partner and I am in town visiting my grandma in Coos Bay, I would love to pair up. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by RoyalMustang

[RoyalMustang]

7 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

I simply don't understand where this myth that carts speed play came from. OK, if the course is basically empty, and every player has their own cart, it might shave a few minutes off the round. I can walk most courses in 2:20 (average). With cart it's 2:00 to 2:15. However, on a typical day with a full tee sheet and players sharing carts it's a wash at best. If the clowns riding don't know how to properly use a cart the walker is definitely faster. I know because I'm the fast walker. I've played hundreds of rounds where I'm the only walker in the group, and I'm the first on the green the vast majority of the time. I played a typical subdivision layout in Arizona today. 200 yds between holes? 2.5 minutes. The round took 3:40. The guys I played with rode, and they never once waited for me. I was the first on the teebox on the majority of the holes. Didn't really matter though. We waited on practically every shot given the four players in front of us were riding (2 carts). 

 

I've said it for years based on over a thousand rounds played. If carts sped up play every resort in the country would be bragging about their 3 hour pace of play. 

 

 

I would agree. When I posted this I had just played 18 from the back tees with 2 guys in a cart. I was waiting on them at the next tee box, not the other way around.  They often had to walk 40 yards back to their cart in the wrong direction while I grabbed my bag after putting out and made a beeline toward the next tee, while they had to take a meandering path around some trees to get there.  This is a long course too: nearly 9 miles on my watch.   

[Argonne69]

2 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Par 3 courses ?

 

Nope. 6800 yd 18 hole courses. 

[Argonne69]

3 hours ago, pktaske said:

 

Saying you and the folks you play with are proficient at walking and play a fast round is one thing. Saying that, all things being equal, walking is faster than astute cart play is an untruth.

 

I play as a walk on single a lot. When in a cart, I can't think of any single instance where a walker beats me to the next tee box unless it's a side by side hole (and even then its close). In fact, I'm constantly passing them on the paths on courses that are set up more linear. If I wasn't waiting for the group in front of me, I'd be in front of them 2-3 holes minimum by the turn.

 

Beginners are a mess either way. I see them all walking together to go look for one guys ball then have to trapse back to their own.

 

 

 

Why are you waiting for the group in front of you? I bet they're riding. That was my round today. My group holed out, got to the next teebox, and had to wait on every single hole. Of course the group in front was riding in two carts. Didn't really matter who was first to the next tee. We had to wait for the riders in front of us. Same thing yesterday. The group two in from of us finished 2+ holes behind. They were riding. We were walking. How could walkers keep up with those speedy carts? 

 

In my experience the majority of players don't know how to properly use a cart. Too much sitting around waiting for one player to hit before going to the second player's ball. See it all the time. 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Argonne69

[ColinKelvin]

5 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Do the courses have 200 plus yard distances from a green to the next tee box ?

Yep, some of the new ones do, e.g. Machrihanish Dunes on the west coast; Gleneagles PGA centenary... still the vast majority of play is walking.

[Rdriver]

Some of the “mountain” courses in my area would be pretty harsh to walk even for younger golfers.  It’s rare to see people walking unless the course is closed in the winter time.  I paid $24 cart fee for a round last week at a private course which I thought was harsh for 18 holes.  

[deadsolid...shank]

8 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Why are you waiting for the group in front of you? I bet they're riding. That was my round today. My group holed out, got to the next teebox, and had to wait on every single hole. Of course the group in front was riding in two carts. Didn't really matter who was first to the next tee. We had to wait for the riders in front of us. Same thing yesterday. The group two in from of us finished 2+ holes behind. They were riding. We were walking. How could walkers keep up with those speedy carts? 

 

In my experience the majority of players don't know how to properly use a cart. Too much sitting around waiting for one player to hit before going to the second player's ball. See it all the time. 

 

You’re correct about the ones who don’t know to use a cart. In that case I would agree walkers can and do keep up. Maybe even be ahead of them. 
 

But, on the other end of the spectrum, people who DO know how to use carts correctly, they are going to be faster. The real caveat is that people who really know how to properly use the carts actually do quite a bit of walking during their round. Because they are hitting and then taking off walking towards the green, with whatever clubs they might need for their next shot n

 

I guess for each instance, it always boils down to the individual players and if they know how to move and play efficiently. 

[chippa13]

I always love the "I walk so fast I go back in time folks." The speed with carts usually comes down to ability and understanding. Playung as a single I've been the only walker in a group of carts and the only cart in a group of walkers. There have been time where I was the only walker and was pulling the group along they were always lesser skilled players. When I've been the only walker with better players they have had me racing to keep up. I can't remember once where I was the rider and wasn't waiting on any walkers regardless of skill.

Edited November 12, 2020 by chippa13

[Sweetdraw]

I'm a walker. 

 

I like the tempo of the game when walking, feeling the grass under my feet, and exercise.

 

I also fall into the 40-60 year old zone which, I'm guessing, is people who can afford to get a card and don't to get exercise. 

 

To each their own. I'm cool w carts. Golfers choice. I'll even jump in / on if there's a large gap between green to tee.

 

 

[RoyalMustang]

Another reason walkers may play faster: they are often better golfers. Those of us that grew up competing as kids didn't use carts: they aren't allowed in competition.  Many of us like walking as it reminds us of the days that we used to get to the course at 9am and play 36 holes before heading home for dinner.  

 

Better players certainly play a lot faster: fewer strokes! 

[grm24]

59 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

Better players certainly play a lot faster: fewer strokes! 

And professional golfers disprove this nearly every week.

[Argonne69]

10 hours ago, grm24 said:

And professional golfers disprove this nearly every week.

 

No kidding. A few weeks back I was watching the pros. 2:40 for nine holes for a threesome. Sheesh.

[bigred90gt]

On 11/9/2020 at 8:40 PM, pktaske said:

 

I get people like to walk. I just don't get them attacking the folks that ride.

This, a bunch.

 

I used to walk and carry, then I blew my back out and couldnt carry my bag much further than from the truck to the clubhouse if I wanted to be able to function. That's when I bought a push cart. Living on the gulf coast, walking (even with a push cart) is rather miserable for a good portion of the year, but I still occasionally did. Now that my wife plays, she has no desire to walk the course, and part of the enjoyment for her is us being in the cart together riding around the course enjoying the outdoors. Since I play 99% of my rounds with her, I ride, because I'm just glad she is out there. Occasionally when I play with a different group, if they want to walk, I'll walk. Most of the people I know that play golf do not walk, and I'm not going to be the lone person in the group hoofing it around the course. Now that I no longer play competitive golf, it is a social event for me. I'm not going to isolate myself from the rest of the group for 80% of the round just to walk the course.

 

If golf to you is walking the course and carrying your clubs, great. If it is walking the course, with your clubs on a push cart, great. If it is driving around the course in a cart, great. Enjoy the game how you want to, but theres no need to attack someone else and call them lazy because they dont feel like walking the golf course. Some people are on their feet 12-14 hours a day at work, and when they get to the course, they dont want to spend 4 hours walking and toting a golf bag. That doesnt make them lazy, they just enjoy their time on the course differently. So long as you keep up with pace, be respectful to the course and those at the course (other players and staff alike), then enjoy it as you wish.

[jordan2240]

I despise riding, so will walk almost any course in any weather (some courses simply aren't made for walking), even if the cost is the same or even cheaper with a cart.  I'm 60.  I golf for the exercise as much as for the golf, and I also think that with 2 people in a cart, most actually go slower than a walker.  I'm with Arnold on this one - golf is meant for walking, and is far more enjoyable when doing such (if you are able, of course).  But I guess those who ride find the game more enjoyable that way, though I wonder how many have actually tried walking.  My son-in-law was an all-the-time rider until he started playing some with me, and he claims he actually enjoys walking now, though he still rides whenever he plays with his peers.  I honestly think a sense of entitlement is part of the appeal.

[pktaske]

1 hour ago, jordan2240 said:

I honestly think a sense of entitlement is part of the appeal.

Walkers or Riders?

 

Obviously there is a greater amount of inferred superiority coming from a few on the walk side of the equation. I really don't see much casting of stones from the cart people ... and certainly not "I'm well off. Look at me. I'm riding." But I'm probably misinterpreting what you are trying to say.

 

As a person who would normally ride, as a result of this thread I booked a walking round tomorrow (at additional expense mind you!). The last time I walked a full length 18 hole course was Plainfield Country Club with a caddy in 2019. We'll see how it goes.

Edited November 13, 2020 by pktaske