Carts more popular than walking nowadays...used to be the other way 'round.

[MtlJeff]

I'd still need to see data on this one. there definitely is a lot of blobs out there, but i would still bet walking/pushing is far more common than riding

 

there is also cost , not everyone wants to drop 75$ or whatever on a round of golf and than another 20-35$ for the cart, plus food etc...

 

I tend to associate carts with older people who have medical reasons they can't walk, or people who play 3-5 rounds a year and are just there for the beer and company. 

 

People who are sub 60 and play 20+ rounds a year, i'd bet a high percentage of them walk/push

 

 

[Fairway14]

In recent decades many courses were designed for riding-only, including some 200 plus yard distances from a green to the next tee box.

These courses do not permit walking.

[golfandfishing]

Jeff I don’t have “data” but at the last private club I worked at (year of our lord 2002) we did about 18,000 rounds per year. About once a month I would walk a round with our F&B Director, there was 1 other member that walked about 5 rounds a week by himself. I can confidently say that easily 17,500 of the 18,000 rounds rode. Prior to that I was at a blue collar type private club in the Midwest, we did around 22,000 rounds a year in an 8 month season, it was considered heavy walking with a younger membership and as you said- cost was a factor.  We were still over half cart riders, easily. Prior to that I was at a busy municipal, 45,000 rounds in an 8 month season. We had 54 carts and we used every cart most days and up to half would get “turned” on busy days. That means on a 250 player day at least 150 people rode. I grew up at a cheap muni with a great men’s club, I started playing with them when I was 14, a very walkable course. I’ll say maybe, maybe 1/3 of the group walked regularly. This number obviously decreases as the game evolves. I loved to walk and carry, it was awesome.  I loved 36 hole college tournaments. I loved the game. But carts were the predominant culture where I moved, mandatory even at a lot of courses. Even in areas where there is a “walking culture” carts still dominate. I’m not talking about unique, destination type places like Streamsong, Bandon, etc but the places where most folks play regularly- 25% walking would be a lot. And also awesome. 

[MtlJeff]

4 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

Jeff I don’t have “data” but at the last private club I worked at (year of our lord 2002) we did about 18,000 rounds per year. About once a month I would walk a round with our F&B Director, there was 1 other member that walked about 5 rounds a week by himself. I can confidently say that easily 17,500 of the 18,000 rounds rode. Prior to that I was at a blue collar type private club in the Midwest, we did around 22,000 rounds a year in an 8 month season, it was considered heavy walking with a younger membership and as you said- cost was a factor.  We were still over half cart riders, easily. Prior to that I was at a busy municipal, 45,000 rounds in an 8 month season. We had 54 carts and we used every cart most days and up to half would get “turned” on busy days. That means on a 250 player day at least 150 people rode. I grew up at a cheap muni with a great men’s club, I started playing with them when I was 14, a very walkable course. I’ll say maybe, maybe 1/3 of the group walked regularly. This number obviously decreases as the game evolves. I loved to walk and carry, it was awesome.  I loved 36 hole college tournaments. I loved the game. But carts were the predominant culture where I moved, mandatory even at a lot of courses. Even in areas where there is a “walking culture” carts still dominate. I’m not talking about unique, destination type places like Streamsong, Bandon, etc but the places where most folks play regularly- 25% walking would be a lot. And also awesome. 

 

Hmmm i wonder if there's some regional dynamics here. I definitely believe you obviously, it's just not really what i see here. We have some "cart only" courses in the mountains where you aren't allowed to walk. 

 

But i've played 2 of our popular public courses quite a bit and one of them i hardly ever see riders. The other one is a bit more popular with the beer and fun crowd, so to speak, and there's a lot more riders but i doubt more than half. 

 

In our club championship this year at my home club, we are only allowed 1 person per cart due to Covid and even with like 5 flights out there we didn't run out of carts. 

 

it must be different in some regions

[golfandfishing]

Definitely some regionality to it, you live in a great area for golf and the walking culture. I wish it were more common. 

[xxio]

People need a place to sit while waiting for the 3 flights ahead of them trying to break 90 from the 6,700 yard tees.

[FakeClubPro]

I think walkers should be forced to buy those robot carts that follow you around like a dog.  Serves them right.  😉

 

I think I read that carrying a bag and walking burns about 1000 calories per hour.  Try it in Florida when it is 95 and the humidity is 90+%.   I used to use a push cart in those conditions and that was bad enough. 6700 or so yard course.

[ThreeBoxers]

I live in an area that has a lot of courses, from goat tracks to high end and I've noticed it's more dependent on when the course was built and where.  100+ year old course has tee boxes close to the greens and even with the elevation changes is extremely walkable.  Newer courses built around a community development have 3-4 minute walks between a couple holes.  This is even worse at the high end country club nearby that I've played for work charity tournament.  Realistically, walking is more cost effective and if you can afford to live at/play this course, you're not concerned with making golf cheaper.  I love walking and it adds to the enjoyment of playing but I'd be lying if I said being fresh out of college and on a budget WASN'T the reason I started walking.

 

The first time I played one of my regular courses the guy behind the counter flat out told me "I can't remember the last time someone walked."  He had to double check the rate. 

[MaineMariner]

It absolutely, 100% depends on the age of the course and the region.

 

I'd love, LOVE to find some walkable courses in my area, but most of them were built in the last 30ish years. They were designed for carts and it's pretty obvious. My "home" course has some stupidly long stretches from green to tee box, some of them up some steep climbs. I walked once right when we opened up after the COVID restrictions were lifted and nearly died despite being a pretty fit mid-30's. It's my "home" course because it's the most convenient public course to me. Beggars can't be choosers...

 

Contrast that with the course I grew up playing in New England, which was built in the early 1900's. The terrain is gently rolling and the tee boxes are right next to the prior hole's green. Walking is a total breeze, and that's how most people play it aside from the old folks.

[T-MAC]

I honestly can't remember the last time I walked 18 holes.  Most of the courses I play you really don't want to walk.  Too much space between holes and would take way too long.
Plus, I need a place to put all my $tuff.  Especially my 12-pack.  😉

Edited November 11, 2020 by 1t2golf
language

[scomac2002]

16 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

I'd still need to see data on this one. there definitely is a lot of blobs out there, but i would still bet walking/pushing is far more common than riding

 

there is also cost , not everyone wants to drop 75$ or whatever on a round of golf and than another 20-35$ for the cart, plus food etc...

 

I tend to associate carts with older people who have medical reasons they can't walk, or people who play 3-5 rounds a year and are just there for the beer and company. 

 

People who are sub 60 and play 20+ rounds a year, i'd bet a high percentage of them walk/push

 

 

 

Not in Ontario my friend.  The under 60 crowd never walk!  It's part of the culture of golf.

 

I walk almost exclusively.  I only ride if the course mandates it or I have to walk up and down the escarpment and my knees won't take that.

 

I walked 6400 yards in a threesome following a foursome in under 4 hours not all that long ago and two of us were over 60.  The foursome in front were also walking and they were all over 60!  The kids just ride for the most part...

[naval2006]

I’ve played in the US in different states and most courses I got to were mandatory cart ones. 

 

In my country, like in the UK, we only walk. For the past 15 years it’s all been trolleys, either pull or motorised. And there’s a bunch of older but still fit golfers that carry, especially for a quick 9 on weekdays. 

 

But golf carts are as American as a cheeseburger. Mainstream amateur golf in the US.  Even in Champions Tour events senior pros ride their cart. 

[Fairway14]

24 minutes ago, naval2006 said:

 

 

In my country, like in the UK, we only walk.

 

Have many courses there where there are several holes with a 200 plus yard distance from a green to the next tee box ?

4 hours ago, scomac2002 said:

 

Not in Ontario my friend.  The under 60 crowd never walk!  It's part of the culture of golf.

 

 

Same question Ontario?

[North Butte]

There are people who live a few houses up the street from me who take their grandkids to the park at the end of the block most days. It's about 150 yards from their front door to the park and they schlep the grandkids back and forth in a four-seater golf cart. As often as not, they spend their time in the park riding around in the circles in the golf cart letting the kids take turns driving.

 

Meanwhile there are dozens of kids running around, adults walking, families playing frisbie or tossing a football back and forth and all the other activities you see people doing in a beautiful city park. But those grandparents are teaching their grandkids from a very young age that riding around in aimless circles with your butt stuck to a golf cart seat is more fun than actual physical activity.

 

And by the way, the grandparents are perfectly able-bodied. They are constantly working in their yard, mowing grass, raking leaves, tending shrubbery. It's just that for them "playing outdoors with the kids" means riding around in a motorized vehicle. It's sick. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by North Butte

[scomac2002]

1 hour ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Have many courses there where there are several holes with a 200 plus yard distance from a green to the next tee box ?

Same question Ontario?

 

Depends on the age of the course.  The newer destination courses can be more spread out.  The typical public courses that I play are much older and many are easily walkable as they are relatively flat parkland layouts.

 

AS I said previously, if there are lots of elevation changes I'll take a cart to save my knees.

 

I work at a nine hole course and always walk it.  Most of the patrons do too, but it's not unusual to have a group of young guys show up and they want to ride.

[The Pearl]

For those in Europe, are there very many golfers over 70?  Much of the golfing population in the U.S. is comprised of the plus 70 crowd. Retirees playing during the week at local munis or in retirement communities across the country.

 

All in carts of course. 

 

I can't remember the last time I saw somebody over 70 walking. 

 

In defense of the use of "some" carts, many, many courses are unwalkable either by design (long treks between tees), location (heat), terrain (mountain), or restrictions (resort).

 

With that said, I see almost nobody walking in the under 40 crowd. Most walkers I see are between 40 and 60 and/or young kids.

 

And as we all know, I am sure well over 1/2 the golfing population in the U.S. can't walk 18 holes do to being tragically out of shape.

Edited November 11, 2020 by The Pearl

[The Pearl]

23 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

I'd still need to see data on this one. there definitely is a lot of blobs out there, but i would still bet walking/pushing is far more common than riding

 

there is also cost , not everyone wants to drop 75$ or whatever on a round of golf and than another 20-35$ for the cart, plus food etc...

 

I tend to associate carts with older people who have medical reasons they can't walk, or people who play 3-5 rounds a year and are just there for the beer and company. 

 

People who are sub 60 and play 20+ rounds a year, i'd bet a high percentage of them walk/push

 

 

My main course is a links-style course.  Flat with only two longer transitions to a tee.  About 6 miles or so total walk. I have played it for 23 years. My guess is that on any given day, walkers would not exceed 1/3 of total play. 

[deadsolid...shank]

I was shocked by how different it is after moving just a short distance. Where I played the last 25+ years in western Nebraska and eastern Wyoming, I would guess (conservatively) that it was probably 85% riding. That was over three courses on a regular basis. 
 

Now living in northern Colorado, approximately 150 miles from where I was, I would say it’s probably a pretty even split riding/walking. The course I work at a couple evenings a week, I probably have a few more riders than walkers who I check in. But I believe that is likely as people are trying to squeeze in a few extra holes before dark(or the case of COVID 2020 golf, they (( they being people who have never played before)) really only want to drive around and drink beer. Most of the groups I see finishing are walking.  Very different cultures separated by a relatively short distance. 

[The Pearl]

7 minutes ago, deadsolid...shank said:

I was shocked by how different it is after moving just a short distance. Where I played the last 25+ years in western Nebraska and eastern Wyoming, I would guess (conservatively) that it was probably 85% riding. That was over three courses on a regular basis. 
 

Now living in northern Colorado, approximately 150 miles from where I was, I would say it’s probably a pretty even split riding/walking. The course I work at a couple evenings a week, I probably have a few more riders than walkers who I check in. But I believe that is likely as people are trying to squeeze in a few extra holes before dark(or the case of COVID 2020 golf, they (( they being people who have never played before)) really only want to drive around and drink beer. Most of the groups I see finishing are walking.  Very different cultures separated by a relatively short distance. 

What courses did you play in WY and NE?  I want to do a playing trip across that area on the way to Wildhorse.  

[deadsolid...shank]

9 minutes ago, The Pearl said:

What courses did you play in WY and NE?  I want to do a playing trip across that area on the way to Wildhorse.  

Cottonwood Country Club in Torrington, WY,  Scottsbluff Country Club in Scottsbluff, Ne, and Monument Shadows in Gering, Ne (SB and Gering and like a small version of twin cities, split by the North Platte river)

The first two courses are solid,  it probably not worth going g out of your way to play. Monument Shadows front nine (it was originally a nine hole course) plays in the shadow of Scottsbluff National Minument and has a couple of pretty neat holes bordering some badlands and the monument property. 
All three sit roughly on highway 26 which runs kind of parallel to the NP river from I25 in Wyoming up to Lake McConaghy (home of Bayside golf course which you’ve probably read about here). 

I don’t remember exactly where you would be coming from, Utah maybe?  If you’re traveling in I80 it’s about 40 miles off I80 to reach SB/Gering, and about another 25 to Torrington. If you don’t want to leave I80, I would strongly suggest 4Winds in Kimball, Ne. Literally right next to I80 and a really good course. Leaves you about 180 miles to Wildhorse. In my opinion, it’s the best course among the I80 towns u til you reach Gothenburg. 
if you have any particular questions, don’t hesitate to ask. 

[The Pearl]

2 minutes ago, deadsolid...shank said:

Cottonwood Country Club in Torrington, WY,  Scottsbluff Country Club in Scottsbluff, Ne, and Monument Shadows in Gering, Ne (SB and Gering and like a small version of twin cities, split by the North Platte river)

The first two courses are solid,  it probably not worth going g out of your way to play. Monument Shadows front nine (it was originally a nine hole course) plays in the shadow of Scottsbluff National Minument and has a couple of pretty neat holes bordering some badlands and the monument property. 
All three sit roughly on highway 26 which runs kind of parallel to the NP river from I25 in Wyoming up to Lake McConaghy (home of Bayside golf course which you’ve probably read about here). 

I don’t remember exactly where you would be coming from, Utah maybe?  If you’re traveling in I80 it’s about 40 miles off I80 to reach SB/Gering, and about another 25 to Torrington. If you don’t want to leave I80, I would strongly suggest 4Winds in Kimball, Ne. Literally right next to I80 and a really good course. Leaves you about 180 miles to Wildhorse. In my opinion, it’s the best course among the I80 towns u til you reach Gothenburg. 
if you have any particular questions, don’t hesitate to ask. 

Yes, coming across Wyoming.  I have made the I-80 many, many times as one of kids went to Creighton.  Certainly 4Winds and a few other courses off of I-80...Bayside, the course in Sydney, etc.

I have been up through Scottsbluff on my way to The Prarie Club.  I think I hit some balls on the range at one of the courses.  The range was a small lake/pond?

 

Thanks!

[QuigleyDU]

I like variety. I walk and ride pretty equally. 

 

Carts are fun. If you have a buddy it makes conversation easy and it is nice to have a place to sit while you wait. I also enjoy walking and moving around the course that way. 

 

If you are solo and the course is clear carts are way faster and you can get through the course quickly. 

[Roody]

I've walked at least 90% of my rounds the past two seasons. However, full disclosure, I have a MotoCaddy motorized push cart. Allows me to get some exercise, save on cart fees, and I'm not tired out by the last few holes.

 

And I gotta say, I kinda like walking better. Unless it's 90+ degrees out. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Roody

[Soloman1]

I wish there were walkable courses where I am. I'd probably be worn out the first few times, but I would get used to it again.

 

I remember walking a US military course in Japan that was so crowded on weekends that I took a novel with me to read while waiting between shots. Just laid down on the ground with my head propped on my carry bag and read.

The course allowed Japanese locals to play so they could charge them a fortune. They would rent carts for another fortune since they never had a chance to drive golf carts in Japan. It was all caddies or a 4-person cart that the caddies "drove" by pushing a button on and off to send the cart along a buried wire in the center of the cart path.

I think the locals paid the equivalent of about $180 35 years ago and the rest of us paid about $12.

 

So, the fairways were like a cross between a NSACAR race and bumper cars with inebriated children at the wheel. When it was cart path only (invented by the devil himself), the Japanese would race across the fairway, take 3 practice swings, top the ball 30 yards, run back to the cart to get another club, run back to the ball again and repeat this process over and over.

 

A par 5 gave me time to finish a chapter in my book...

 

 

 

[ColinKelvin]

On 11/10/2020 at 2:53 AM, miamistomp said:

 There are a lot of courses here in Florida where walking is not permitted

   I do not play those

As a golfer in Scotland, I find it mind-boggling that golf courses where you are not allowed to walk exist.

 

Here, <1% of golfers take a cart, and almost always for disability reasons.

[david.c.w]

14 minutes ago, ColinKelvin said:

As a golfer in Scotland, I find it mind-boggling that golf courses where you are not allowed to walk exist.

 

Here, <1% of golfers take a cart, and almost always for disability reasons.

 

I have played in Scotland.  I walked every course.  Some days we did 36.   It was fantastic.  It was also flat, short, cloudy and a high of 62F/16C.  For those who only play in these conditions, I invite you to come to Georgia in August with a noon tee time.  It is a legitimate safety concern for a lot of people.  My uncle is a member of an inland course in Sarasota, FL.  The course only gets about 10% play in the summer due to the heat and humidity. 

 

If I only played links courses in cool climates I would probably only walk as well.  But the view of "what a bunch of lazy fat Word not allowed Americans", while true in some respect, is not 100% accurate.  This past JANUARY (note: winter) i played Streamsong in the middle of Florida.  Walked 36 a day.  Drank a bottle of water every other hole.  Peed twice over the course of 10 hours.  I am 46, a 3.8, and am reasonably fit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Divot License]

4 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

I have played in Scotland.  I walked every course.  Some days we did 36.   It was fantastic.  It was also flat, short, cloudy and a high of 62F/16C.  For those who only play in these conditions, I invite you to come to Georgia in August with a noon tee time.  It is a legitimate safety concern for a lot of people.  My uncle is a member of an inland course in Sarasota, FL.  The course only gets about 10% play in the summer due to the heat and humidity. 

 

If I only played links courses in cool climates I would probably only walk as well.  But the view of "what a bunch of lazy fat Word not allowed Americans", while true in some respect, is not 100% accurate.  This past JANUARY (note: winter) i played Streamsong in the middle of Florida.  Walked 36 a day.  Drank a bottle of water every other hole.  Peed twice over the course of 10 hours.  I am 46, a 3.8, and am reasonably fit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think they overall opinion is that Americans are lazy, it's more that a culture has developed around golf in the US with seems to emphasis cart use. 

 

They are legitimate reasons why in some places carts are a necessity (high temps) but as a whole I think the rest of the world views it more as the cart culture has developed and that many players are missing out on the experience of walking your round of golf. (IMHO)

[ThreeBoxers]

I've got a question for some of you across the pond, how common is it for courses to be built within communities?  That seems to really dictate the course layout around here.  You have munis and other courses that are generally just on their own plot of land which tend to be more walkable but when integrated into a community or country club, you can end up with significant distances between holes.  On top of this, with the amenities provided by the community that the course is part of, golf carts are much more in line with the general feel of the community, hoofing it for several miles less so.

Edited November 11, 2020 by ThreeBoxers

[ColinKelvin]

2 hours ago, david.c.w said:

 

I have played in Scotland.  I walked every course.  Some days we did 36.   It was fantastic.  It was also flat, short, cloudy and a high of 62F/16C.  For those who only play in these conditions, I invite you to come to Georgia in August with a noon tee time.  It is a legitimate safety concern for a lot of people.  My uncle is a member of an inland course in Sarasota, FL.  The course only gets about 10% play in the summer due to the heat and humidity. 

 

If I only played links courses in cool climates I would probably only walk as well.  But the view of "what a bunch of lazy fat Word not allowed Americans", while true in some respect, is not 100% accurate.  This past JANUARY (note: winter) i played Streamsong in the middle of Florida.  Walked 36 a day.  Drank a bottle of water every other hole.  Peed twice over the course of 10 hours.  I am 46, a 3.8, and am reasonably fit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I take your point that very high temperatures make carts a better, possibly even necessary choice. I didn't mean to imply that Americans are lazy and fat, either. I just think that golf, as a sport, should always involve walking the holes of the course if possible. Two years ago my dad, brother and I made our first US golf trip and played Pinehurst #2. My only regret from that day is that we were recommended to take carts, and did so. We agreed afterwards that we didn't feel we had got a full sense of the topography of the course and that it had detracted from the round. It was about 25C that day, and hotter the next at Pine Needles. Both courses were easily walkable but 90% of players had carts and had to park at the side of the fairways, 90 degrees from balls. It added time to the round, too. 

 

We do sometimes get heatwaves in summer here in Scotland, believe it or not, and it's challenging but not exactly dangerous for most people to walk a championship course in 30C heat. Take water and sunscreen and a wear a hat. My point is that while carts are fine for mobility issues and extreme heat, golf should ideally involve walking as part of the experience. Courses where this is banned (all year round?) just seem crazy to me. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by ColinKelvin

[Argonne69]

I simply don't understand where this myth that carts speed play came from. OK, if the course is basically empty, and every player has their own cart, it might shave a few minutes off the round. I can walk most courses in 2:20 (average). With cart it's 2:00 to 2:15. However, on a typical day with a full tee sheet and players sharing carts it's a wash at best. If the clowns riding don't know how to properly use a cart the walker is definitely faster. I know because I'm the fast walker. I've played hundreds of rounds where I'm the only walker in the group, and I'm the first on the green the vast majority of the time. I played a typical subdivision layout in Arizona today. 200 yds between holes? 2.5 minutes. The round took 3:40. The guys I played with rode, and they never once waited for me. I was the first on the teebox on the majority of the holes. Didn't really matter though. We waited on practically every shot given the four players in front of us were riding (2 carts). 

 

I've said it for years based on over a thousand rounds played. If carts sped up play every resort in the country would be bragging about their 3 hour pace of play.