Best of the Stainless Woods

[Tremendous-Slouch]

I know Persimmon is king, but as a kid who grew up in and learned to play golf in the 90's, I learned on both persimmon and steel heads (TM Tour Driver and Burner) (still have the TM's that I learned on). It seems that TM's Pittsburgh Persimmons (and descendant models: Tour Drive/Brassie/Spoon, Burner woods) are the most popular models (makes sense, since they started it all). Other esteemed models in my mind would be the King Cobra Deep Face (ala Tiger in '97), the Callaway S2H2, and of course the Big Bertha.

 

 

My question is what are everyone's favorites of the steel headed woods of the 80's and 90's? What were other popular models or models used by top players?

[Jiggered]

I grew up on wooden woods (laminates) and had a spell away from golf when everything was changing so completely missed the steel head era.

 

When I came back to golf around 2005, I dug my old set out the garage and it took me a while to work out why I was getting funny looks, I eventually bought a cheap Dunlop 460cc and went from there.

 

As for steel heads, I now have some for use when the weather is too vile for wooden woods and the ones that get the most play are a 1989 Titleist set of 1, 3 & 5. 

Not sure how popular these were but for me their biggest drawback is that at address they sit very toe-in.

And it's often forgotten that the first ones were actually smaller than persimmon heads due to the weight of the steel.

 

Some crappy pictures below.

 

 

[Foozle]

My history is remarkably similar to Jiggered's. Brought up on laminates, moved into persimmon and then onto steel in the early '90's.

I too was completely out of the game from the mid '90's to around 2013. In that period woods had gone from proper wood size to ridiculous balloons on sticks. Briefly tried a Titleist 905R (400cc) - didn't like it. Quickly progressed back to persimmon provoking curious glances.

Like Jiggered I play steel in winter to protect my woods from damp.

For me it is Taylormade. Usually Tour Driver (8*) and Tour Spoon (13*). This year they remain locked in our Covid inaccessible locker room so I have opted for Burner Plus (9.5*) and Burner 4W (18*). Heads are smaller than persimmons so help keep the eye in!

I don't have much experience of other metals as I have never seen past the TM Burner series.

[Terreb]

I am strictly persimmon except for one metal driver. I bought this at a Goodwill store for $7, it's sole purpose was to take to the driving range to hit the range rocks. Not a fan of hitting the rocks with persimmon. Turns out I love this club, maybe my favorite one of all the ones I have hit. It just fits and feels perfect. Here are a few pics of my range club. Enjoy!

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

After my lovely Mizuno persimmon driver was stolen, I got a secondhand TM Tour Burner (think that was the name), which I still have back in the UK. Around that time, almost any Junior who fancied himself as a half decent golfer had one in the bag. Mine had a gold carbon shaft with no labels or decals so I've no idea what it was, but I think it was a stock shaft. Although I was playing a metal driver, my 3 and 5 woods were both persimmon: Maxfli Australian blades. I still have them, but they are not in good shape. I ought to look at getting them restored and reshafted next time I'm back in Britain--whenever that will be.

A few years later, in the late Nineties, I played a little golf and borrowed a TM Raylor from a friend's brother. Now that was an excellent little club. 17* of loft, I think, and a very small head. I hit some great shots with that.

 

I've been thinking it might be fun to play a little golf again with the early metal woods. Maybe one day...

 

[Divot License]

10 hours ago, Terreb said:

I am strictly persimmon except for one metal driver. I bought this at a Goodwill store for $7, it's sole purpose was to take to the driving range to hit the range rocks. Not a fan of hitting the rocks with persimmon. Turns out I love this club, maybe my favorite one of all the ones I have hit. It just fits and feels perfect. Here are a few pics of my range club. Enjoy!

The first driver I remember having (I think I had some cheap ones before). Really liked this club until I got my hands on the Titleist 975, I've pretty much been a Titleist driver guy ever since. 

[scomac2002]

I have a set of the Callaway Big Bertha War bird metal woods -- 11° driver, 4W & Heavenwood.  I play them with a set of Eye 2 clones.  I have the longest drive I ever hit with that War bird measured out at 270 yds about 5 years ago.  Kind of a crazy result for a guy that struggles to hit them 200 on average anymore.

 

 

[Divot License]

I remember the Biggest Big Bertha coming out and everyone wondering how anyone could swing something so big at a whopping 290cc

[Terreb]

The Warbird performed so well at the range I had to play a round or two with it this year. I can consistently hit 250 yards with it at about 80% power. In comparison I played a Cleveland Classic TC15 persimmon, most of the year,  and hit that around 220 yards. 

 

If I was to go with another metal driver I would love to try a Titleist 975D. I was close to pulling the trigger on one about 2 weeks ago, but found a nice Hogan Apex persimmon driver I liked better. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Terreb

[LeoLeo99]

I grew up playing in the 70s with laminate.  Didn't pay much attention to laminate vs persimmon.  Spalding box set first then some hand me down Hogan Speed Slots.  I was young and wild and had GolfWRX swing speed back then.  One bad swing off the neck and it was off to the repair shop.  Got tired of that so switched to Pittsburgh Persimmon for the increased ruggedness and durability.   Going back in time, I have an Eye 2 driver.  It's not that small.  Seems quite playable.  Think I'll play it next week after the snow melts.

[Divot License]

These old Mizuno T-Zoid drivers don't get enough love in my opinion

Edited December 22, 2020 by Jedaigeki

[Divot License]

The Ping ISI titanium driver is in my opinion the holy grail of drivers simply because I never got to have one.

[KRW59]

I transitioned from Persimmon Powerbilt Citation woods to this combo of TM TP 13° Tour Spoon with an Aldila HM-30 graphite shaft and 8° Lynx V-Tech Driver , high modules graphite head with the stock Powertune graphite shaft.

 

It was not until the the first Taylormade Titanium Bubbles that I made the switch to all metal woods.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by KRW59

[Dr. Block]

I recall the smaller steel head fairway woods staying in a lot of tour player's bags long after the big titanium drivers arrived on the scene. In particular, the Taylor Made Burner in Phil Mickelson's bag when he was with Yonex, and the Titleist PT for Tiger. 

 

I still have my TM burner 3 wood with a True Temper EI-70 shaft in it. It is a spectacular club, and whenever I get it out on the course, I wonder why I've bothered with any other three wood since. I play that three wood in a bag with the early Yonex Tour irons (that Phil used) with the legendary LTB600 gold colored graphite shafts. The Yonex Tour irons always struck me as a beautiful forged tribute to Ping Eye 2's, which would make sense, because Phil was a Ping guy before he signed with Yonex out of college.   

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Dr. Block

[Tremendous-Slouch]

4 hours ago, KRW59 said:

I transitioned from Persimmon Powerbilt Citation woods to this combo of TM TP 13° Tour Spoon with an Aldila HM-30 graphite shaft and 8° Lynx V-Tech Driver , high modules graphite head with the stock Powertune graphite shaft.

 

It was not until the the first Taylormade Titanium Bubbles that I made the switch to all metal woods.

 

 

I have always been curious about those graphite "woods". How do they feel compared to persimmon/stainless steel/titanium? I know they look cool haha

[NRJyzr]

This is something I've been thinking about quite a bit lately.  I wasn't a kid when I started, but I also started playing golf in the 90s, and missed out on persimmons or laminates from the beginning.

 

I also missed out on a lot of the woods that many guys played in those years.  

 

Just bought a Cobra Deep Face on eBay, to make up for that a bit.  🙂

 

[KRW59]

2 hours ago, Tremendous-Slouch said:

I have always been curious about those graphite "woods". How do they feel compared to persimmon/stainless steel/titanium? I know they look cool haha

Feel ???....I would compare it to a dead blow hammer....My brother and I both played graphite headed drivers . His Yonex ADX was much lighter than my Lynx...In it's time some one did a driver test and the Yonex won the distance category..beating all the stainless and Persimmon...

I liked mine because of the deep face, larger head size , instilled confidence in my swing for the fences mentality......( Actually the guy I bought mine from told me some one had won a Long Drive event with this very club)...

Edited December 22, 2020 by KRW59

[raggal62]

46 minutes ago, KRW59 said:

Feel ???....I would compare it to dead blow hammer....My brother and I both played graphite headed drivers . His Yonex ADX was much lighter than my Lynx...In it's time some one did a driver test and the Yonex won the distance category..

I liked mine because of the deep face, larger head size , instilled confidence in my swing for the fences mentality......( Actually the guy I bought mine from told me some one had won a Long Drive event with this very club)...

The Yonex along with the Diawa were probably the best graphite headed drivers available during that era. But as a whole the technology was short lived due to the lack of feel or feedback provided. This along with the sound which was somewhat muted, more like a "thud".

[KRW59]

2 minutes ago, raggal62 said:

The Yonex along with the Diawa were probably the best graphite headed drivers available during that era. But as a whole the technology was short lived due to the lack of feel or feedback provided. This along with the sound which was somewhat muted, more like a "thud".

A "very muted thud" perfect description of the Lynx . The Yonex being much lighter, had a muted with a hint of ' crispness ' feel....

[Divot License]

I remember as a junior wanting a Yonex as the best player at my club had one, never did get to try it.

[Jiggered]

45 minutes ago, raggal62 said:

The Yonex along with the Diawa were probably the best graphite headed drivers available during that era. But as a whole the technology was short lived due to the lack of feel or feedback provided. This along with the sound which was somewhat muted, more like a "thud".

 

I've got a 1, 3, 5, 7 set of Mizuno White Fang graphite clubs and I find them not too far away from a wooden head in feel and sound. 

They're my preferred clubs for wet winter course play.

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

When I started out, I had a graphite headed 3-wood, which may have also had a carbon shaft. I don't remember the maker, but I think it was Japanese, and the head was burgundy coloured. I really liked it, and still remember some of the shots I hit with it.

I've mentioned this before on this forum, but one day, in cold weather, I hit a tee shot heavy and felt something wrong with the club. When I looked at the head, it had cracked completely around the hosel. Not down the hosel, but around.

 

Edit: Forgot to add that I bought the 3w second-hand, and it must have been pretty cheap because I remember the pro at the club telling us (brother and me) not to spend lots of money on new clubs starting out because we'll soon grow out of them.

Edited December 23, 2020 by No_Catchy_Nickname
Additional information

[dcopp7]

On 12/21/2020 at 5:37 PM, Terreb said:

I am strictly persimmon except for one metal driver. I bought this at a Goodwill store for $7, it's sole purpose was to take to the driving range to hit the range rocks. Not a fan of hitting the rocks with persimmon. Turns out I love this club, maybe my favorite one of all the ones I have hit. It just fits and feels perfect. Here are a few pics of my range club.

That's Titanium, not stainless.  For Stainless.  I would say I have hit the MacGregor Nicklaus 20th Muirfield driver the best.  I have hit a few bombs with my 7.5* Burner steel though too.

[EmperorPenguin]

I declare myself the authority on this subject because I started playing golf in 1990 when persimmon was starting to lose market share to metalwoods and graphite shafts with stainless-steel heads were the hype.  I am looking at my club rack and I see many metalwoods--please, don't call them "metals"--in that time.  I will give you my answers on what I consider the best.

     Gary Adams was a marketing genius who made Taylor Made the leader in woods.  People think they were the first metalwoods, but Pinseeker was around before them, but Gary simply marketed them better.  For a long time in the 1990's the Taylor Made Burner 3 wood was in the bags of many pros, most notably the Tour Spoon (13 degrees).  One of my favorite 3 woods is the standard Burner 15 degrees, the one with the dimples on the toe.  Back in my prime I was consistently hitting the ball about 235 with them, and with a simple S300U shaft at 42".  The longest I hit a ball with that club was 270 in a tournament back in 1999.  Great club.  The Tour Spoon 13 had a slightly different shape you can see when you juxtapose the two (the toe on the Tour Spoon was more sharper because the sole was a bit smaller from heel to toe), but looking at my collection it appears to me that the Burner 3 wood is modeled after the MacGregor Tommy Armour 693.  I think Jack used that club for most of his career, even when he finally started using metalwoods.  I never owned the Original 1 Pittsburgh Persimmon driver, but the one I have was the Burner 10.5 from the generation after (ca. 1990).  The Burner series heads were modeled after the MacGregor M85, I think.  I had the 10.5 driver, the entry-level driver.  It has a closed face of one degree, I think.  The Burner Plus has a square face and a 9.5-degree loft, and both came with standard 43" shaft, whether DG S300U or graphite shaft.  Tour Gold shaft was the one I remember as graphite option, and the year after they had a graphite shaft that was two-tone (light gray near grip, black near head).  I remember Tiger winning his third US Amateur with a pro-line driver: the Tour Driver 8.5.  When you were really good, the 9.5 Burner Plus was not good enough; you needed either the Tour Driver 8.5 or the Tour Burner 7.0.  I tried swinging the Tour Burner once and I couldn't even get the ball up--low sqirted to the right.  I had no business swinging that club.

     Back to 3 woods.  In my opinion, only two 3 woods were my favorite in that era: Burner 15, Tour Spoon 13, and the Titleist PT 15 bore-thru hosel.  The Titleist PT 15 bore-thru hosel is so good I own two of them.  I think Tiger had that in his bag the year he dominated in 2000.  This is what I remember of Tiger's setup when he won the Masters in 1997: King Cobra Oversize Driver 9-degree Deep Face with X-100 shafts, 43.5" long?; Taylor Made Tour Spoon 13 with X100; irons were Mizuno MP-29 2-4 and MP-14's from 5-PW, and Cleveland 588's for his SW and LW.

     Now fairway woods.  If I can choose only one fairway wood I would select the Taylor Made Tour Cleek 19 degrees.  This one is the shiny toe and the "Pittsburgh Persimmon" stamped on the toe.  It has rails on it.  This wood sets up so beautifully you feel so confident over the ball.  I challenge each of you to go online and buy one of these for yourself and I guarantee you will love how it sets up.  It is shaped absolutely perfect.  I do not know which club Gary Adams modeled the Tour Cleek after, but it is the sexiest at setup.  I also have the Burner 4 wood (18 degrees) but it does not set up as well as the Tour Cleek, but I have hit a great number of shots with the former.  My 4 woods are standard spec: 18 or 19 degrees at 41.5", S300 shaft.  They perform just as well as today's hybrids, in my opinion.  We have come full circle from hybrids back to old-school fairway woods.

     Now onto Big Bertha.  The first Big Bertha drivers I did not like because they had foam in the heads.  They got much better in their second generation when they took out the foam (look for the big plastic plug on the sole; without it you have the pencil hole which indicates foam) but kept the same sole design.  My favorite Big Bertha driver is the War Bird sole (circa 1995) with a 43" Memphis 10 shaft.  I just like the smaller head because I find that when heads are bigger, a 1" miss off the center loses way too much distance.  The smaller head like Warbird makes you hit the ball more at the middle of the face, and I often find that I hit more fairways with the smaller heads than with a 460 cc head.  That's just me, though, but you may want to try for yourself.  The War Bird driver I have has eleven degrees of loft.  Why I like it is because for that year, Callaway did not close their faces with their drivers, even at eleven degrees--the club face is perfectly square at address.  (The trend then was more closed faces for lofts starting about 10 degrees, and square at about 9 degrees and open faces under 9 degrees.)  Big Bertha 3 woods are all pretty good, from War Bird 3 wood to Steelhead to Steelhead Plus 3 woods.  I saw a Steelhead Plus 3+ wood in Greg Norman's bag, and we all know about Henrik's Diablo 3 wood with Grafalloy blue shaft.

     One of the best drivers I have from 1995 is the original Mizuno T-Zoid driver.  This is not the one pictured above, but the first-generation gold head with the straighter T bar on the top, and just before they went to titanium.  I just like the way it feels and how it jives with my swing.  I won several matches with that driver and I still have it in my rack.  After Faldo gave his feedback, that was when Mizuno started arcing that T-bar on the top and made the head slightly larger, which I did not like so much.

     Just for fun, check out the Titleist DCI Starship driver and fairway woods, released about 1994, I remember.  They sound like broken glass when you hit them.  They turned a lot of heads when people struck them.

     One final metalwood I will mention here is the Ping Zing 2 driver.  It has a small head, low profile and straight groove lines.  When you pick it up you wonder if this is a gimmick that is retro to the first "Le Roi" metalwood--you remember that one, boomers?--but it hits pretty well and also made a sound similar to the DCI Starship.

     Sorry, guys, for rambling.  This thread takes me back to my prime days.

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, EmperorPenguin said:

I declare myself the authority on this subject because I started playing golf in 1990 when persimmon was starting to lose market share to metalwoods and graphite shafts with stainless-steel heads were the hype.  I am looking at my club rack and I see many metalwoods--please, don't call them "metals"--in that time.  I will give you my answers on what I consider the best.

     Gary Adams was a marketing genius who made Taylor Made the leader in woods.  People think they were the first metalwoods, but Pinseeker was around before them, but Gary simply marketed them better.  For a long time in the 1990's the Taylor Made Burner 3 wood was in the bags of many pros, most notably the Tour Spoon (13 degrees).  One of my favorite 3 woods is the standard Burner 15 degrees, the one with the dimples on the toe.  Back in my prime I was consistently hitting the ball about 235 with them, and with a simple S300U shaft at 42".  The longest I hit a ball with that club was 270 in a tournament back in 1999.  Great club.  The Tour Spoon 13 had a slightly different shape you can see when you juxtapose the two (the toe on the Tour Spoon was more sharper because the sole was a bit smaller from heel to toe), but looking at my collection it appears to me that the Burner 3 wood is modeled after the MacGregor Tommy Armour 693.  I think Jack used that club for most of his career, even when he finally started using metalwoods.  I never owned the Original 1 Pittsburgh Persimmon driver, but the one I have was the Burner 10.5 from the generation after (ca. 1990).  The Burner series heads were modeled after the MacGregor M85, I think.  I had the 10.5 driver, the entry-level driver.  It has a closed face of one degree, I think.  The Burner Plus has a square face and a 9.5-degree loft, and both came with standard 43" shaft, whether DG S300U or graphite shaft.  Tour Gold shaft was the one I remember as graphite option, and the year after they had a graphite shaft that was two-tone (light gray near grip, black near head).  I remember Tiger winning his third US Amateur with a pro-line driver: the Tour Driver 8.5.  When you were really good, the 9.5 Burner Plus was not good enough; you needed either the Tour Driver 8.5 or the Tour Burner 7.0.  I tried swinging the Tour Burner once and I couldn't even get the ball up--low sqirted to the right.  I had no business swinging that club.

     Back to 3 woods.  In my opinion, only two 3 woods were my favorite in that era: Burner 15, Tour Spoon 13, and the Titleist PT 15 bore-thru hosel.  The Titleist PT 15 bore-thru hosel is so good I own two of them.  I think Tiger had that in his bag the year he dominated in 2000.  This is what I remember of Tiger's setup when he won the Masters in 1997: King Cobra Oversize Driver 9-degree Deep Face with X-100 shafts, 43.5" long?; Taylor Made Tour Spoon 13 with X100; irons were Mizuno MP-29 2-4 and MP-14's from 5-PW, and Cleveland 588's for his SW and LW.

     Now fairway woods.  If I can choose only one fairway wood I would select the Taylor Made Tour Cleek 19 degrees.  This one is the shiny toe and the "Pittsburgh Persimmon" stamped on the toe.  It has rails on it.  This wood sets up so beautifully you feel so confident over the ball.  I challenge each of you to go online and buy one of these for yourself and I guarantee you will love how it sets up.  It is shaped absolutely perfect.  I do not know which club Gary Adams modeled the Tour Cleek after, but it is the sexiest at setup.  I also have the Burner 4 wood (18 degrees) but it does not set up as well as the Tour Cleek, but I have hit a great number of shots with the former.  My 4 woods are standard spec: 18 or 19 degrees at 41.5", S300 shaft.  They perform just as well as today's hybrids, in my opinion.  We have come full circle from hybrids back to old-school fairway woods.

     Now onto Big Bertha.  The first Big Bertha drivers I did not like because they had foam in the heads.  They got much better in their second generation when they took out the foam (look for the big plastic plug on the sole; without it you have the pencil hole which indicates foam) but kept the same sole design.  My favorite Big Bertha driver is the War Bird sole (circa 1995) with a 43" Memphis 10 shaft.  I just like the smaller head because I find that when heads are bigger, a 1" miss off the center loses way too much distance.  The smaller head like Warbird makes you hit the ball more at the middle of the face, and I often find that I hit more fairways with the smaller heads than with a 460 cc head.  That's just me, though, but you may want to try for yourself.  The War Bird driver I have has eleven degrees of loft.  Why I like it is because for that year, Callaway did not close their faces with their drivers, even at eleven degrees--the club face is perfectly square at address.  (The trend then was more closed faces for lofts starting about 10 degrees, and square at about 9 degrees and open faces under 9 degrees.)  Big Bertha 3 woods are all pretty good, from War Bird 3 wood to Steelhead to Steelhead Plus 3 woods.  I saw a Steelhead Plus 3+ wood in Greg Norman's bag, and we all know about Henrik's Diablo 3 wood with Grafalloy blue shaft.

     One of the best drivers I have from 1995 is the original Mizuno T-Zoid driver.  This is not the one pictured above, but the first-generation gold head with the straighter T bar on the top, and just before they went to titanium.  I just like the way it feels and how it jives with my swing.  I won several matches with that driver and I still have it in my rack.  After Faldo gave his feedback, that was when Mizuno started arcing that T-bar on the top and made the head slightly larger, which I did not like so much.

     Just for fun, check out the Titleist DCI Starship driver and fairway woods, released about 1994, I remember.  They sound like broken glass when you hit them.  They turned a lot of heads when people struck them.

     One final metalwood I will mention here is the Ping Zing 2 driver.  It has a small head, low profile and straight groove lines.  When you pick it up you wonder if this is a gimmick that is retro to the first "Le Roi" metalwood--you remember that one, boomers?--but it hits pretty well and also made a sound similar to the DCI Starship.

     Sorry, guys, for rambling.  This thread takes me back to my prime days.

Great and very informative post! Thanks!

I am particularly taken with the TM comments. I believe I own all the "dimple" variants. Tour Driver missing from pictures as it lives in my locker at my club for winter use and not currently accessible due to Covid-19.  Despite owning all these I have never studied and compared the head shapes or position at address.

Tour Spoon is probably my favourite. Currently enjoying returning to the Burner + I played from about 1990 - 1996. Playing for the winter whilst my persimmons hibernate.

I had similar problems trying to hit the Tour Burner other than that I smothered low and left! 😱

[elwhippy]

Had a Burner with stiff Flextwist graphite. Great club and surprisingly forgiving. Cleveland Launcher 5 wood stayed in the bag for years. Cobra King Cobra. 9 degrees with a 6.0 Rifle shaft was another long stayer. Real fairway finder. 

[Soloman1]

I remember seeing a Pittsburgh Persimmon metal wood for the first time. I held it between my thumb and index finger far away from me as if it were a soiled tissue.

 

I would have never imagined that the Tour Spoon would become my favorite club. . .

[dlygrisse]

My favorite SS fairway wood was the Titleist PT 15, it had the best sound/ feel of any metal wood I have ever hit. I also had a TM 19* baffler that I loved dearly for many years. I still have the head laying around somewhere. 
 

pre titanium my favorite driver was a Yamaha EOS, traditional sized head, then a TM Burner mid sized with a flex Twist shaft.  I played the TM Burner driver, not the Pittsburgh persimmon but the 2nd gen, for several years with the DG in it, but never got along with it as well as the fairways.  Played the matching 3 wood many years as well, with the Pittsburgh persimmon  baffler. 
 

 

[tannyhoban]

I picked up a Founders Fresh Metal 10.5 in '92 that was a beast for me. 
 

That was my favorite.

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, tannyhoban said:

I picked up a Founders Fresh Metal 10.5 in '92 that was a beast for me. 
 

That was my favorite.

I did not switch from Persimmon to metal to around 02 or so. My first metal was a Founders Judge small head with a X-1000 steel shaft. I could pound that thing. Ended up cracking that thing on the sole along the rails. later on a guy I describe as a master club builder told me those were prone to cracking there with stiff steel shafts. My next metal which I still have and my first big head metal was a Golf Gear Tsunami with a Tsunami Stiff Tour Shaft