To play or not to play... that is the question

[Abh159]

2 hours ago, BFD3 said:

I think they also want to see how kids behave. Bad temperament and attitude can cost kids offers, even very talented kids.

 

Well said. Of my 4-5 really good friends that I grew up playing with only 1 of us didn't get any big DI offers. 

 

That 1 had the most raw talent out of all of us, but he was always one bad shot away from slamming a club or yelling in frustration. I literally heard him scream from two holes over in a tournament one time after he blocked a ball OB. How a kid behaves is just as important to a coach as how they score. No one wants a hothead on their team. 

[chrissdc]

10 hours ago, BFD3 said:

I think they also want to see how kids behave. Bad temperament and attitude can cost kids offers, even very talented kids.

Good point, Chris Riley at USD observes how kids react when not playing well. Coaches are also looking at interactions between parents and kids. 

 

[sui generis]

9 hours ago, chrissdc said:

Good point, Chris Riley at USD observes how kids react when not playing well. Coaches are also looking at interactions between parents and kids. 

 

 

At the AJGA girls championship to which I referred to in an earlier post I saw a good example of this. One of the girls who now plays on TV started to walk on after playing her second from the fairway. She didn't get far until her mother gave her a sharp reminder about the divot she'd failed to replace. The player carefully replaced the divot, smiled and said, "Thanks, mom."

[DavePelz4]

How about if the kids just have fun and enjoy playing golf?

[leezer99]

27 minutes ago, DavePelz4 said:

How about if the kids just have fun and enjoy playing golf?

Fun stops at 13 years old. 

[farmer]

"Fun stops at 13 years old."  That is so sad.  I know a family whose daughter was a gifted BB player, at every level.  She was on a very top end traveling AAU team, went to all the big tournaments, plus playing during the season for her school.  Between school and AAU, a year round schedule.  Before her senior year in high school, she hit the wall.  Told her parents she was done, that she wanted a normal senior year.  To her parents credit, they didn't argue, just told her to be happy.  And, she was.

[heavy_hitter]

10 minutes ago, farmer said:

"Fun stops at 13 years old."  That is so sad.  I know a family whose daughter was a gifted BB player, at every level.  She was on a very top end traveling AAU team, went to all the big tournaments, plus playing during the season for her school.  Between school and AAU, a year round schedule.  Before her senior year in high school, she hit the wall.  Told her parents she was done, that she wanted a normal senior year.  To her parents credit, they didn't argue, just told her to be happy.  And, she was.

 

I don't understand that philosophy.  I have a job that I love to go to work at.  If you love it and want to excel, it takes work.  If a kid hits a wall and quits, they really didn't love it in the first place.

[farmer]

No, that's not true at all.  She loved BB, loved being really, really good, but the year round grind of practice-travel-play finally burned her out.  Plus the constant string of injuries that happen along the way.

[RmoorePE]

Just now, farmer said:

"Fun stops at 13 years old."  That is so sad.  I know a family whose daughter was a gifted BB player, at every level.  She was on a very top end traveling AAU team, went to all the big tournaments, plus playing during the season for her school.  Between school and AAU, a year round schedule.  Before her senior year in high school, she hit the wall.  Told her parents she was done, that she wanted a normal senior year.  To her parents credit, they didn't argue, just told her to be happy.  And, she was.

That is great parenting and 100% the reason that we have decided to only dabble with tournaments and any more travelling teams. I talked to our HS BB coach last night via text and she was asking about our summer vacation schedule because we told her that we would NOT schedule our family life around sports and she is trying to figure out which tournaments to play this summer.  

 

As I posted above, I have seen this more often than not. I haven't been around junior golf that much, but have been around basketball and volleyball a lot. I have talked to plenty of college coaches and scouts at games/tournaments and they have all said basically the same thing "talent pops the second you see it, and size and strength can't be coached."

 

All the extra stuff is really if your kid wants to do it. If your kid (and you) enjoy the grind and the tournament life then go all in. My youngest will do that, but we are not going to let her for fear of burnout as she matures. I only want my kids to be excited to go to the golf course or open gym. As a parent, you have to be prepared for your kid to say "I'm burned out" and respond appropriately.

 

We may be making a mistake, but after watching my friends go all in with their kids sports (and doing it a bit ourselves), I think we will be better off working for a balanced life even if our kids miss some events and their coaches get annoyed with us.

 

 

 

 

[leezer99]

3 hours ago, farmer said:

"Fun stops at 13 years old."  That is so sad.  I know a family whose daughter was a gifted BB player, at every level.  She was on a very top end traveling AAU team, went to all the big tournaments, plus playing during the season for her school.  Between school and AAU, a year round schedule.  Before her senior year in high school, she hit the wall.  Told her parents she was done, that she wanted a normal senior year.  To her parents credit, they didn't argue, just told her to be happy.  And, she was.

I can with 100% certainty say that this was because she felt like a social outcast and probably was interested in a boy. The imbalance you shared is the problem not that the fun ends at 13. 

[tiger1873]

7 hours ago, farmer said:

No, that's not true at all.  She loved BB, loved being really, really good, but the year round grind of practice-travel-play finally burned her out.  Plus the constant string of injuries that happen along the way.

I am going to say she liked it but didn’t love it.

There is a big difference between the two. If someone loves doing something it becomes like an addiction and they will do anything to keep doing it. 
 

The best athletes love their sports and it’s easy to spot the work ethic is unreal. If your have ever being around any pro athletes this one thing they all have in common

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by tiger1873

[Hawkeye77]

4 hours ago, leezer99 said:

I can with 100% certainty say that this was because she felt like a social outcast and probably was interested in a boy. The imbalance you shared is the problem not that the fun ends at 13. 

Come on, you know you are smarter than that comment! You are.

[Hawkeye77]

50 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

I am going to say she liked it but didn’t love it.

There is a big difference between the two. If someone loves doing something it becomes like an addiction and they will do anything to keep doing it. 
 

The best athletes love their sports and it’s easy to spot the work ethic is unreal. If your have ever being around any pro athletes this one thing they all have in common

 

 

 

 

Plenty of kids have interests, things they truly love doing and sometimes other things get in the way, like . . . life and they can't "do anything to keep doing it" or just have had enough of what something else or someone else made something they love become.  Surprise, sometimes their parents get in the way and totally ruin something they love.  

 

I was lucky as a kid growing up to have supportive parents and grandparents, our kids we think the same, and so they tell us.  My wife the same growing up.  

 

Your generalization of loving something being the equivalent to it being like "an addiction" has more negative potential outcomes than you seem able to comprehend.  I'd re-examine that with some very thoughtful introspection.

 

 

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

 

Plenty of kids have interests, things they truly love doing and sometimes other things get in the way, like . . . life and they can't "do anything to keep doing it" or just have had enough of what something else or someone else made something they love become.  Surprise, sometimes their parents get in the way and totally ruin something they love.  

 

I was lucky as a kid growing up to have supportive parents and grandparents, our kids we think the same, and so they tell us.  My wife the same growing up.  

 

Your generalization of loving something being the equivalent to it being like "an addiction" has more negative potential outcomes than you seem able to comprehend.  I'd re-examine that with some very thoughtful introspection.

 

 

 

Successful people don’t quit they work at it and over come any obstacles.

 

If someone decides it is better to have a normal senior year then they were never dedicated to begin with.  Do you think Tom Brady or Michael Jordan just needed a break because it got too hard? If you want something bad enough nothing will stop you. 
 

Most people don’t have the work ethic even if they have the talent and that is the problem with a lot kids today’s.

Edited February 11, 2021 by tiger1873

[golfer929]

2 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

I am going to say she liked it but didn’t love it.

There is a big difference between the two. If someone loves doing something it becomes like an addiction and they will do anything to keep doing it. 
 

The best athletes love their sports and it’s easy to spot the work ethic is unreal. If your have ever being around any pro athletes this one thing they all have in common

 

 

I'm sorry but you're crazy if you think every pro athlete in sports has an unreal work ethic and loves their sport like an addiction. There are a good portion of them out there who do not love it but know they are good at it and can make a very nice living doing it, and treat it like a just like a job that they punch in and out of.

[tiger1873]

9 hours ago, golfer929 said:

I'm sorry but you're crazy if you think every pro athlete in sports has an unreal work ethic and loves their sport like an addiction. There are a good portion of them out there who do not love it but know they are good at it and can make a very nice living doing it, and treat it like a just like a job that they punch in and out of.

 

Really??? Are you serious I met a lot pro athletes in my life and not 1 has ever treated it like a job where they punch in and out. Every one them work there butts off to get there.

 

Here is an article on Kobe and how hard he worked.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/kobe-bryant-insane-work-ethic-2013-8#he-was-strict-about-what-he-ate-15

Edited February 11, 2021 by tiger1873

[BFD3]

45 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Really??? Are you serious I met a lot pro athletes in my life and not 1 has ever treated it like a job where they punch in and out. Every one them work there butts off to get there.

 

Here is an article on Kobe and how hard he worked.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/kobe-bryant-insane-work-ethic-2013-8#he-was-strict-about-what-he-ate-15

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/five-athletes-who-hate-the-sport-that-they-play-135540631.html

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chron.com/sports/golf/amp/Roundup-Lack-of-practice-doesn-t-hinder-Franco-s-1662435.php

Edited February 11, 2021 by BFD3

[krtgolfing]

10 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Successful people don’t quit they work at it and over come any obstacles.

 

If someone decides it is better to have a normal senior year then they were never dedicated to begin with.  Do you think Tom Brady or Michael Jordan just needed a break because it got too hard? If you want something bad enough nothing will stop you. 
 

Most people don’t have the work ethic even if they have the talent and that is the problem with a lot kids today’s.

 

Except MJ took a "break" to play baseball because "he had lost his desire to play basketball".

[Hawkeye77]

12 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Successful people don’t quit they work at it and over come any obstacles.

 

If someone decides it is better to have a normal senior year then they were never dedicated to begin with.  Do you think Tom Brady or Michael Jordan just needed a break because it got too hard? If you want something bad enough nothing will stop you. 
 

Most people don’t have the work ethic even if they have the talent and that is the problem with a lot kids today’s.

I don't think so.  You need a good look in the mirror and some mature, reasonable thinking on this subject. 

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, krtgolfing said:

 

Except MJ took a "break" to play baseball because "he had lost his desire to play basketball".

There you are, he didn't love basketball!

[kcap]

I don’t think Fun stops at 13.. winning is fun, seeing hard work pay off is fun, getting recruited is fun!! being a champ is FUN!

 

results matter a lot more after 13 so if your goal is to play college golf— then you need to put in hard work and grind it . That might not be fun for some kids! I get that.  Those should play recertification golf and nothing wrong with that.  

Putting this another way and using the word “fun” broadly and not literally.  Before 12 your results don’t matter it is what you do as a 14-15-16 yr old that determine your ability to play college golf.  With that respect 12 yr golf is fun and after that it need to become result oriented! Getting results is hard work!

 

Pros have a job, they enjoy it, love it and want to stay on top. Sometime you get tired of the grind and wanna take a break especially if you have achieved all your term goals.. after the while the fire gets back and you miss the adrenaline rush!!

 

These are crucial years for my sons golf career. He know he needs to get better, the process for him might not be fun. But, if he gets to where to he wants that would be fun, if not at least he tried and gave it his all.  I don’t ever want him to look back in regret. 
 

 

[chrissdc]

If it becomes work, it is not fun. Grinding/practicing /playing/working out is supposed to be fun, not work.

Plenty of top athletes treat it as a job and no longer have the passion for it to be fun.

 

 

[RmoorePE]

kcap makes great points, being the best is really fun. Watching your kid be the best is one of the best feelings ever, especially if you know they put in the work to be there.

 

My whole point of commenting on this thread is if your kid is having fun and enjoys the process and the competition, then by all means do everything you can to support it. 

 

My experience has been that the standard thinking has been how our kids compete in tournaments between 14, 15, and 16 determine their college careers is right for some kids, but wrong for most. This mindset is largely driven by the youth sports complex, and the folks who make money from it.

 

I think golf probably has the best opportunity for kids who show out greatly as juniors. The results are black and white for college coaches to see and take notice. Plus kids get into the good tournaments, and so on. At those ages we as parents still have a bit of control over the child's time. Once the kid turns 17 or 18 and has a choice of what to do with their discretionary time is where the rubber meets the road for these tournament/club kids in my opinion. Hormones, boyfriends/girlfriends, societal pressures, school pressures can all add up to move kids away from the game that they love (not just golf but every sport). Only a few will resist the distractions and forge ahead. A few will be talented enough that they will succeed anyway, without the extra effort. Game is game.

 

 

 

 

[farmer]

Tiger, you don't know the girl, you don't know the family, and, most importantly, you don't know the sacrifices she made.  She did the endless BB longer than the career of most professional athletes.

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, farmer said:

Tiger, you don't know the girl, you don't know the family, and, most importantly, you don't know the sacrifices she made.  She did the endless BB longer than the career of most professional athletes.

don’t have to know her just saying someone who is dedicated doesn’t just up and quit after years of work when there about to gain something. I assume if she quit she missed out on a scholarship.

Also as a parent you make sure kids don’t make stupid mistakes like that.

 

[dlygrisse]

Let the kid decide, if he wants to compete in tournaments, he needs to learn to compete in tournaments.  I think it was Bobby Jones who said there is golf, then there is tournament golf and there is major championship golf.  The pressure is totally different playing by the rules in strict competition, you have to learn to compete and win, the earlier the better.  

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, tiger1873 said:

don’t have to know her just saying someone who is dedicated doesn’t just up and quit after years of work when there about to gain something. I assume if she quit she missed out on a scholarship.

Also as a parent you make sure kids don’t make stupid mistakes like that.

 

Now you are calling her stupid knowing absolutely nothing about the situation. It’s this kind of stuff that is the antithesis of what a junior golf sub forum should reflect, especially from adults. 

[kcap]

 

RMoorepe there is subtle difference between what  I said about 14-15-16 being important.   It is only important to the fact that it decides where you get recruited to a college.  I never implied that it has any bearing on how you play in college or beyond. 

Frankly, a kid can loose the drive and motivation at 12 or 16 or 22 - who knows.   Baby steps for my son and me,  let us hope he can keep the work ethic for a couple more years.    

@ Tiger - I do hope your daughter never looses her motivation to compete at the highest level, but if she does and you tried very very very hard to make her keep playing, then sometimes it is okay to press the "eject" button.  It is not stupid, and it can happen with anyone of us - playing college golf or getting a D1 scholarship should not define any of our kids.  

[jkpgolf]

On 2/7/2021 at 4:54 AM, leezer99 said:

Friend's kid recently qualified for a pretty elite tour in our area and the parents are conflicted on whether or not to sign the kid up for upcoming events.  One parent says the kid isn't ready to win on the tour and doesn't want to waste time or money on a middle of the pack finish.  The other parent says the kid should play to see how they measure up against the competition.

 

Thoughts?

Curious how this played out? Did he/she play in any events? if so, how did they do? Or, did they decide to skip? 

 

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

It's always easier to play up when a kid is not expected to be competitive or is an underdog

 

I think there's a place for playing up, but it should be balanced mainly with opportunities to compete against kids at a similar or slightly higher level

 

And there should be room for tournaments against inferior competition where the junior is favored to win, to know how it feels to have to close under the weight of expectation