Why is the PGA tour so scared and resorting to extreme responses to super tour idea?

[tacklingdummy]

More well sponsored tournaments will benefit professional golf because it allows more options for pros to have a place to play. Already the PGA and Korn Ferry tours are completely packed like sardines. Too many good players and not enough spots.  When you have multiple tour winners and major winners competing on the Korn Ferry tour and struggling to get back on the PGA tour, you know it is not great. Just looks at the names on the Korn Ferry tour now. 

[Ferguson]

Apparently a "real big win" is not enough.  A "super win" must be better, like a grande latte.

 

 

 

I despise this ad campaign.

 

[Barfolomew]

Maybe TV golf is not popular enough to spread the honey...

 

 

What makes the other top Pro sports around the world able to pay the athletes $Millions?  Maybe golf just can't keep up with them and even though golf is the most globaly played sport by amateurs.  Is Soccer is the only sport to pay out big international? I don't know are the basketball guys making millions around the globe or just NBA?  So once the PGA loses it's "monopoly" of hoarding the show ponies the golfer's incomes may naturally fall as rating do...

 

The ladies at my work have never heard of Phil Mickelson..... just sayin

 

 

[CaseyC]

36 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

No, that’s bad business. You wish him luck and keep the door open. Assuming he doesn’t actively make efforts to poach players himself or “steal venues”. 

 

 

Bad for business?   A guy who couldn't make it anymore on the PGA Tour, failing on the PGL and wanting to come back is good for business?   He can wait until he is 50....

[bscinstnct]

3 minutes ago, CaseyC said:

Bad for business?   A guy who couldn't make it anymore on the PGA Tour, failing on the PGL and wanting to come back is good for business?   He can wait until he is 50....

We see things differently. It could be a guy who is still successful but who wants to do something new.

 

This is not uncommon. A guy leaves an established gig with a big company to join a startup. Even a competitor. He honors no poaching. He’s welcome back if it doesn’t work out.

 

I think, if the PGL, makes a go of it, the players won’t stand by having the tour tell them they are banned for life if they join. 

[CaseyC]

7 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

I think, if the PGL, makes a go of it, the players won’t stand by having the tour tell them they are banned for life if they join. 

 

What will they do?   They guys who stay will be the ones making the money.   Why would they welcome back someone who will take money from them?

 

The only thing the PGL is offering is guaranteed money.   The best players in the world want more than $.   The PGL won't be successfull with players who couldn't make it on the PGA Tour

[Pepperturbo]

If I were to guess, resistance is tied to PGA Tour revenue stream that's generated from national and local sponsors, and benefits local charities.  Then there's this: maybe they don't want to spread US revenue outside the US, which may be necessary to maintain a World tour that can't get local country sponsors. 

 

Think big picture.  By comparison, all tours outside the US are small, due to their inability to generate a commensurate level of interest and revenue from corporate sponsors as well as huge galleries that spend.  From my view, seems like the PGA Tour revenue stream and donations to charities are heavily regionalized.  Guess where much of the US money would go.  Get the picture?

Edited May 21, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[smashdn]

57 minutes ago, JaNelson38 said:

While its certainly not an "end goal" for the guys there, its not like you couldn't make a living doing it if that's the highest level you reached.

 

Which is what I said.  It is not intended to be that.  It is the AAA for the PGA Tour.

 

You have 35 year old guys in AAA still trying to chase their dream.  You have guys going down to AAA to work on their game or do rehab.  Just like the KF.

 

I'm not knocking it.  I'd do it if I could and wanted that lifestyle.

 

I just don't think you can look at the KF and say, "Man, these guys aren't making squat compared to PGA Tour players.  The PGA Tour needs to subsidize this and get the purses up so these guys can all afford to work on their game until they get to the big Tour."

 

I think they are keeping those KF guys "healthily hungry" to get to the next level.

 

The players run the Tour.  I get the impression they don't want a lot of fluidity between moving up and moving down (having your card and losing your card).  There seems, to me anyway, many exceptions that can be used to keep a player on Tour, but relatively few ways to get on Tour.  No more Q school.  Top KF guys get on.  Winning so many KF tournaments automatically gets you on. Sponsor exemptions to play (limited) but that doesn't get you your card.

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, tacklingdummy said:

When you have multiple tour winners and major winners competing on the Korn Ferry tour and struggling to get back on the PGA tour, you know it is not great. Just looks at the names on the Korn Ferry tour now. 

 

So how does adding another level help that?  Wouldn't that same argument then just take place at that next higher level?

 

"When you have multiple Super League winners competing on the PGA Tour and struggling to get back into the Super League, you know it is not great. Just looks at the names on the PGA Tour now." 

[CaseyC]

50 Korn Ferry players get PGA cards each year.

[Hawkeye77]

Reminding players that they are subject to certain rules as part of membership on the PGA Tour and there are remedies available to the Tour and potential consequences to players if players want to violate terms of membership or not retain their membership isn't extreme, IMO.  

 

With so little information public about the other proposed Tour, it's impossible to know what is really going on but I'd bet on the PGA Tour knowing how to protect the interests of all of its members.

 

 

[grm24]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 And I wonder if it’s legal for the PGA Tour to banish guys who play in the PGL? Or what the players think of that kind of heavy handed treatment from a organization that is nothing without them. 

 

I mean, what would the players Union think of that?

 

You have a fellow pro who you know for years. He hasn’t been doing great on the PGA Tour and he gets an offer from the PGL. Are you fine with him being lifetime banned from coming back to the PGA Tour?

There is no players union on the PGA Tour. As for being banned I give you this piece of reported information.

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/31394037/phil-mickelson-bash-super-league-others-do

 

PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan met with players Tuesday night at Quail Hollow in a previously scheduled meeting at which the PGL was part of the discussion. According to several players, Monahan made it clear that joining the PGL would mean an automatic suspension from the PGA Tour and the possibility of a permanent expulsion. According to a PGA Tour official, such an action is part of the tour's regulations and has been approved by the players.

 

So it appears the PGA Tour has the upper hand on the players if they jump to the new league provided the information above is accurate.

Edited May 20, 2021 by grm24

[gvogel]

Maybe the PGA Tour should just change their stance on appearance fees.  The SGL just goes bye bye.

[bscinstnct]

45 minutes ago, CaseyC said:

 

What will they do?   They guys who stay will be the ones making the money.   Why would they welcome back someone who will take money from them?

 

The only thing the PGL is offering is guaranteed money.   The best players in the world want more than $.   The PGL won't be successfull with players who couldn't make it on the PGA Tour

 

You have to have a strategy. Banning players is not a strategy.

 

Let’s say the PGL signs a talented college kid with a big bonus. The kid turns out to be the next Tiger. He’s killing it.

 

You going to not allow him on the PGA Tour?

 

You see?

[Soloman1]

The PGA Tour is the players union.

 

The Tour doesn't have to do anything. It answers to no one. The PGA Tour has now associated itself with the tour in Canada, Europe and China, etc., to make sure you can't escape the control of it. The PGA Tour has one purpose - to control professional golf on planet Earth.

 

And it has succeeded. The Tour has won and nothing is going to change it.

 

Most of you are too young to know what happened to Mac O'Grady when he went up agains the PGA Tour. The Tour is like a casino - it always wins. Or when Greg Norman wanted to start a world tour.

 

"There's a lot of money in non-profits." -- A friend of mine who made an 8 figure payout selling a "non-profit."

[CaseyC]

1 minute ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

Let’s say the PGL signs a talented college kid with a big bonus. The kid turns out to be the next Tiger. He’s killing it.

 

 

 

How will anyone know he is the next Tiger when he is playing against sub par competition?

[mahonie]

If the PGL gets it right, it doesn’t really matter if the cream of the PGA Tour are not part of it. Imagine watching something akin to the Ryder Cup every week with the drama and excitement. Teams and individuals battling each other with the promise of higher earnings the better they do. There are plenty of talented players outside of the PGA Tour that could make it work. Look at the success of the various cricket Super Leagues around the world...if the PGL could replicate that everything else including the majors becomes a sideshow. 

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, Arn said:

I’ve never seen that picture of Phil before….good find! 🤑

[bscinstnct]

13 minutes ago, CaseyC said:

 

How will anyone know he is the next Tiger when he is playing against sub par competition?

 

That’s your argument?

 

“How will anyone know”?

 

If he do this

 

Word will get around pretty fast.

 

Be posted on Twitter then Golfwrx within minutes, for example ; )

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by bscinstnct

[CaseyC]

That is not a strategy...

[bscinstnct]

35 minutes ago, grm24 said:

There is no players union on the PGA Tour. As for being banned I give you this piece of reported information.

 

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/31394037/phil-mickelson-bash-super-league-others-do

 

PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan met with players Tuesday night at Quail Hollow in a previously scheduled meeting at which the PGL was part of the discussion. According to several players, Monahan made it clear that joining the PGL would mean an automatic suspension from the PGA Tour and the possibility of a permanent expulsion. According to a PGA Tour official, such an action is part of the tour's regulations and has been approved by the players.

 

So it appears the PGA Tour has the upper hand on the players if they jump to the new league provided the information above is accurate.

 

I meant association or that thing they have with a spokespman, lol

 

My point is that if the players decided they wanted something, whatever it is...

 

The tour would have no choice but to give in.

[CaseyC]

Just now, bscinstnct said:

 

I meant association or that thing they have with a spokespman, lol

 

My point is that if the players decided they wanted something, whatever it is...

 

The tour would have no choice but to give in.

 

The current Chairman of the Player's Advisory Council is Rory.    Rory has been quite clear on his thoughts about the super leagues.

[bscinstnct]

2 minutes ago, CaseyC said:

 

The current Chairman of the Player's Advisory Council is Rory.    Rory has been quite clear on his thoughts about the super leagues.

 

For now, I’ve agreed there isn’t much likelihood this goes anywhere.

 

But, heavy handed business practice sometimes means your business is vulnerable. It’s a sign of weakness.  
 

If the PGL has the budget that’s been reported, they will sign players. And I assume they will recruit out of US College programs and Euro/Asian amateurs.

 

Down the road, it’s stupid to not allow these players to jump over to the pga tour if they play great and sponsors like them. 

[jholz]

These kinds of things have been going on in sports (particularly American and British Sports) for quite some time. Check out the early development of the Football Association and Professional Football Leagues in England during the late 19th Century, or the development of baseball's Player's League at roughly the same time. 

 

The development of modern Anglo-American sport has always been caught between the two poles of "open competition" and "revenue generation." Long ago, people like Connie Mack came to the conclusion that "open competition" was a losing economic model. He abandoned the Player's League and rejoined the National League. He then learned that he could earn more money with a losing team than a winning one.

 

What professional golf is experiencing now it the twilight of the Tiger Impact. With open competition, people like Tiger don't come along very often. With something like the PGL, they can manufacture it as they need to. It's all a money grab and an attempt to turn golf into professional wrestling. 

 

I, for one, am completely against it. I want to see people play golf, not be media darlings. Money corrupts all. 

[CaseyC]

6 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

If the PGL has the budget that’s been reported, they will sign players. And I assume they will recruit out of US College programs and Euro/Asian amateurs.

 

 

 

That would be a change in what we know now.  They are interested  in the top 50, not US College and Euro / Asia ams

[MtlJeff]

I said in the other thread that i don't think this super league thing has much legs, however it would seem pretty clear that the tour is very concerned...and at least aware, that the players are very likely starting to think the PGA tour isn't the greatest deal.

 

No guaranteed money

No appearance fees from sponsors

Top golfers make way less than any of the major sports in terms of "on field" pay. Granted some of this is just because the PGA tour itself makes less money

 

I am sure guys like Brooks, DJ etc...Probably figure the pay scale should be more weighted in their favor, similar to the NBA, where you have max players and then many others on veteran mins or midlevels

 

At the end of the day, if DJ, Brooks and Tiger show up to an event and Russell Henley wins it --people still watched it for the former.

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

 

Which is what I said.  It is not intended to be that.  It is the AAA for the PGA Tour.

 

You have 35 year old guys in AAA still trying to chase their dream.  You have guys going down to AAA to work on their game or do rehab.  Just like the KF.

 

I'm not knocking it.  I'd do it if I could and wanted that lifestyle.

 

I just don't think you can look at the KF and say, "Man, these guys aren't making squat compared to PGA Tour players.  The PGA Tour needs to subsidize this and get the purses up so these guys can all afford to work on their game until they get to the big Tour."

 

I think they are keeping those KF guys "healthily hungry" to get to the next level.

 

The players run the Tour.  I get the impression they don't want a lot of fluidity between moving up and moving down (having your card and losing your card).  There seems, to me anyway, many exceptions that can be used to keep a player on Tour, but relatively few ways to get on Tour.  No more Q school.  Top KF guys get on.  Winning so many KF tournaments automatically gets you on. Sponsor exemptions to play (limited) but that doesn't get you your card.

 

It isn't AAA for the tour.  The restrictions were brought in to make sponsorship more palatable to whoever was going to replace web.com.  "The only way to the PGA Tour" is a better sell than what it was before.  And it had the side benefit of closing shop.  That tour has never been about "development."  The whole "this many graduates have won" is a very skewed stat.  How many guys, got their card, lost it, got it back, then won?  I don't consider a guy who spent time on the PGA Tour in a prior season a guy who won because of his time on that tour.  Guaranteed he learned more in two weeks on the big tour than he did on the other.

 

The other difference to the baseball analogy is that a ball player has a short, finite time.  A 35 year old is trying to hang on and get one last shot at a payday.  A 35 year old golfer could be looking at another couple of decades possibly.  The rehab stints are because the team sends them there, and sometimes they go to A ball.  It's about the convenience more than the level.  

 

The money is smaller there because that is what the market dictates.  It's not about "keeping guys hungry."  

 

That tour exists to keep another tour from siphoning sponsorship money, closing the shop, but throwing enough of a sop to make the public think it's about "earning your spot", and "building the player" and all that jazz. The top 5 focus items for the PGA tour are money, money, money, control, and money.  They run some good bait and switch to make people think otherwise, but that is their focus.     

[Shilgy]

26 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

For now, I’ve agreed there isn’t much likelihood this goes anywhere.

 

But, heavy handed business practice sometimes means your business is vulnerable. It’s a sign of weakness.  
 

If the PGL has the budget that’s been reported, they will sign players. And I assume they will recruit out of US College programs and Euro/Asian amateurs.

 

Down the road, it’s stupid to not allow these players to jump over to the pga tour if they play great and sponsors like them. 

It’s not a “Super League”. if it consists of minor league players though.

[Shilgy]

59 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

You have to have a strategy. Banning players is not a strategy.

 

Let’s say the PGL signs a talented college kid with a big bonus. The kid turns out to be the next Tiger. He’s killing it.

 

You going to not allow him on the PGA Tour?

 

You see?

How would he be the next Tiger playing in a minor tour with little chance of playing a major?  

[bscinstnct]

4 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

How would he be the next Tiger playing in a minor tour with little chance of playing a major?  

 

Look at BK

 

Was one of what I’m assuming are a bunch of promising good college golfers who come out every yeeae. 

 

Started on the Euro challenge tour and had to earn his Euro tour card. 
 

But, what if some sharp PGL scout had recruited him in college.

 

Offer him 5MM, immediate access to their best events. Plus the payouts at events are 2MM. 
 

He just might think about that.