New Mizuno MPs just announced! Mizuno Pro 221/223/225

[ktyler2]

1 hour ago, stevechooster said:

 

Hey @ktyler2 what were your thoughts on turf interaction and mishits on both? 

 

I wish I could hit them outside on real turf but it’s hard to find anyone that offers outdoor fittings here in the SLC, Utah area. The ground is frozen right now as well so that certainly doesn’t allow for it.
 

Looking at the sole of the 223 it’s definitely got some meat to it but with the grinding on the backside it’s not awful. I also tend to order my irons bent weak so that adds a little bounce that I feel is helpful for getting through the turf. Definitely something I’ll be interested to see about, though.

[stevechooster]

19 minutes ago, ktyler2 said:

I wish I could hit them outside on real turf but it’s hard to find anyone that offers outdoor fittings here in the SLC, Utah area. The ground is frozen right now as well so that certainly doesn’t allow for it.
 

Looking at the sole of the 223 it’s definitely got some meat to it but with the grinding on the backside it’s not awful. I also tend to order my irons bent weak so that adds a little bounce that I feel is helpful for getting through the turf. Definitely something I’ll be interested to see about, though.

 

I know there have been a lot of people on here talking about how underrated the ZX5/7 series are and how forgiving they both are... but the Mizuno line looks amazing, too. I'm curious how much forgiveness those 223s will have.

[ktyler2]

15 minutes ago, stevechooster said:

 

I know there have been a lot of people on here talking about how underrated the ZX5/7 series are and how forgiving they both are... but the Mizuno line looks amazing, too. I'm curious how much forgiveness those 223s will have.

I have some very polarizing thoughts on “forgiveness” that don’t belong in this thread. Happy to have some dialogue with anyone who has an open mind and wants to share experiences. 
 

For me it mostly comes down to looks and feel. The MMC’s have been my favorite in MP-18 and MP-20 so it makes sense the 223 is my choice with this Pro line. They’re somehow both extremely soft and explosive at the same time. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by ktyler2

[JZ75]

3 hours ago, ktyler2 said:

I have some very polarizing thoughts on “forgiveness” that don’t belong in this thread. Happy to have some dialogue with anyone who has an open mind and wants to share experiences. 
 

For me it mostly comes down to looks and feel. The MMC’s have been my favorite in MP-18 and MP-20 so it makes sense the 223 is my choice with this Pro line. They’re somehow both extremely soft and explosive at the same time. 

I'll go there.  I'll say right up front this is an opinion and it's evolving.  Personally, I think forgiveness has a lot to do with where you miss and how far it is from the sweet spot.  Clubs vary on how well they handle different misses. I'm moving from 0311P's back to players Irons.  With the big head of the P's I tend to miss alot of shots on the toe and get away with it (I fear the hozel). I've been demo'ing a lot of clubs and when I first picked up the 223, i210 and T100s I tend to hit some rotten shots off the toe at first.  After 5 shots or I tend to find the sweet spot.   The 223's feel the best of any club I've demo'd and I get more consistent dispersion.  I also don't get the jumpers I get from a hollow body.  So I'd say it's more demanding but also more consistent and accurate.    

 

The other piece to me is how the sole fits my swing and how the club fits my eye.  The 223 make is better looking than my P's and not as scary as the T100S.  Never owned Mizuno's yet but I think the low bounce will work well for a guy with a shallow -2 degree angle of attack.  

[dmeeksDC]

18 hours ago, stevechooster said:

 

I know there have been a lot of people on here talking about how underrated the ZX5/7 series are and how forgiving they both are... but the Mizuno line looks amazing, too. I'm curious how much forgiveness those 223s will have.

The Srixons and Mizunos are at opposite ends of the bounce spectrum. I find the low bounce of the Mizunos (the sole width is cambered and probably gives it an “effective bounce” slightly higher than specs) feels better for me through the turf than the Srixon high bounce v-sole. But that is very individual. I encounter a lot of tight lies and/or courses with thin turf and the Mizunos handle those shots well. 

[stevechooster]

1 hour ago, dmeeksDC said:

The Srixons and Mizunos are at opposite ends of the bounce spectrum. I find the low bounce of the Mizunos (the sole width is cambered and probably gives it an “effective bounce” slightly higher than specs) feels better for me through the turf than the Srixon high bounce v-sole. But that is very individual. I encounter a lot of tight lies and/or courses with thin turf and the Mizunos handle those shots well. 

 

Does anyone know the bounce on the ZX series and 22X series?

 

[dmeeksDC]

1 hour ago, stevechooster said:

 

Does anyone know the bounce on the ZX series and 22X series?

 

Well, with the qualifier that there is no industry standard for how bounce specs are measured, do a google search and you can find the specs for the previous iteration, the z585 series. Srixon is not listing bounce with the current series, but it won’t be vastly different.
 

They list two bounce numbers for each head due to the VT sole. To me they play 2-4 degrees less than the first number if you have proper shaft lean, and probably right at it if you add loft at impact. It’s considerably higher than Mizunos and the soles are wider. A lot of players find they truly match one better than the other, so best to try them on turf if at all possible.

[Kitchen]

Got to spend a bit of time with the demo heads today, and focused on the 223. Brought in my gamer 7 iron (T100s, Oban CT115 stiff).

 

Tested the 223 7 iron with Modus 115 stiff and XStiff. Shaft feels great.

 

I was experiencing drastically

more spin with the 223. All numbers from GC Quad:

 

T100S 7 Iron:

swing weight D3

159 avg carry

111 avg ball speed

20.8 launch angle

48.8 decent angle 

4900 avg spin rate

* These are the exact numbers I’m looking for with my gamer irons. I was swinging it well tonight.

 

223 w/ Modus 115 stiff:

swing weight D5

153 avg carry

111.2 ball speed

20.9 launch

48.9 decent angle

6300 avg spin rate

 

i was definitely taken off guard by this variance in spin numbers. I tested many shafts including Xstiff without almost any effect on spin.

 

The second test part was taking the B weight 223 test head and using the standard length modus 115 stiff shaft. This came in at about D1. Spin was brought down to 5700, ball speed up

to 112 and carry up to 159. I do tend to prefer lighter SW irons. Not sure if this is coincidence or correlation. I can see the ball speed increasing as I would imagine club head speed is up a bit. But the decrease in spin was interesting.
 

I have a solid gamer set of T100s (2021), but I also love buying golf clubs so…

 

I ordered the 223 with modus 115 and requested D3 SW. will be interesting to see how it goes.

 

they feel great and the size is a step larger than my T100s. 

[HarborMike]

Just an observation; I’m loving how the pages of Mizuno Pro vs. MP script debates went silent now that the heads are available for demo in a lot of places and YouTube influencer reviews out for almost a month. Love to see these threads (much better) on fittings, look and feel, which model I’m ordering, etc.  😆

[Brooks_Cupcake]

2 hours ago, Kitchen said:

Got to spend a bit of time with the demo heads today, and focused on the 223. Brought in my gamer 7 iron (T100s, Oban CT115 stiff).

 

Tested the 223 7 iron with Modus 115 stiff and XStiff. Shaft feels great.

 

I was experiencing drastically

more spin with the 223. All numbers from GC Quad:

 

T100S 7 Iron:

swing weight D3

159 avg carry

111 avg ball speed

20.8 launch angle

48.8 decent angle 

4900 avg spin rate

* These are the exact numbers I’m looking for with my gamer irons. I was swinging it well tonight.

 

223 w/ Modus 115 stiff:

swing weight D5

153 avg carry

111.2 ball speed

20.9 launch

48.9 decent angle

6300 avg spin rate

 

i was definitely taken off guard by this variance in spin numbers. I tested many shafts including Xstiff without almost any effect on spin.

 

The second test part was taking the B weight 223 test head and using the standard length modus 115 stiff shaft. This came in at about D1. Spin was brought down to 5700, ball speed up

to 112 and carry up to 159. I do tend to prefer lighter SW irons. Not sure if this is coincidence or correlation. I can see the ball speed increasing as I would imagine club head speed is up a bit. But the decrease in spin was interesting.
 

I have a solid gamer set of T100s (2021), but I also love buying golf clubs so…

 

I ordered the 223 with modus 115 and requested D3 SW. will be interesting to see how it goes.

 

they feel great and the size is a step larger than my T100s. 

Good choice on the order - the 223 statistically are a far better fit based on the spin data alone you shared. Sub 5K is not ideal at your ball speed, but your land angle is fine. Personally I would take the slightly less yardage and more playable spin.

[Kitchen]

11 minutes ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

Good choice on the order - the 223 statistically are a far better fit based on the spin data alone you shared. Sub 5K is not ideal at your ball speed, but your land angle is fine. Personally I would take the slightly less yardage and more playable spin.

No issues with my spin at about 4800-5000, play really well with it and hit it fairly high. I’m looking forward to seeing how the finished set feels and plays!

[Brooks_Cupcake]

7 hours ago, Kitchen said:

No issues with my spin at about 4800-5000, play really well with it and hit it fairly high. I’m looking forward to seeing how the finished set feels and plays!

I know how you feel on the spin side of things.

Even with PV1X RCT I still struggle to get 6000 spin off mats.

[Sourpuss]

i ordered the 221's 2 weeks ago after hitting all 3. the sound , the feel and the workability of there 221's made me go w/ the 221's. granted the 221's were 10 yards shorter over the 223's but the feel was worth it. i hated the 225's, they were clicky, felt hard on impact and did not feel like mizzy's. i may end up bending them strong for a few more yards but only after a few weeks of trial.

[Whiskey_fire]

225s or T200 will be replacing my awful p770s. Never had a set for such a short amount of time, last set of ap2s i had in the bag for 8 years.   

[drscott266]

Just swung by my local shop today to hit some options along with the 225, after just hitting the 225 last week for a min.  Initial impressions were it looked great, and mizuno has such a nice fitting cart I could hit my exact combo at my length. I was hitting the 7 iron almost directly down the line, and the most dispersion front to back I saw from decent strikes was 5yds. Could hit a cut on demand, and feel was very nice compared to the T200 and 770 I hit as well. Tried some other shafts to just see what would happen, but my usual LZ won out by a mile. New T200 feel harsh compared to these, 770 only felt good when flushed.. they did offer more ball speed but less distance in average. Being a long time titleist guy I wanted to love the T200 but these honestly are like a cross between the T100 and T200 in all the right ways. They skew towards the T200 but slimmed down on the sole, top line and offset is almost identical which inspires confidence in me. Very impressed with them. I held the 223 but didn’t need less forgiveness than these offered, I’ll agree sizing is similar enough that one could play either based on looks. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by drscott266

[oz dee cee]

5 minutes ago, Sourpuss said:

i ordered the 221's 2 weeks ago after hitting all 3. the sound , the feel and the workability of there 221's made me go w/ the 221's. granted the 221's were 10 yards shorter over the 223's but the feel was worth it. i hated the 225's, they were clicky, felt hard on impact and did not feel like mizzy's. i may end up bending them strong for a few more yards but only after a few weeks of trial.

Distance is all relative dude. Who cares what’s on the bottom. As long as dispersion is in order. Just build your wedges and longer clubs around what you’ve got. Won’t be hard. Just my two cents that you didn’t ask for. My apologies. 

[this_is_golf]

I hit the 225s at my fitting yesterday - beautiful, clean looking club. Before the fitting I had every intention of leaving with those and I did hit them pretty well, but for my ability and swing characteristics the P790s launched higher and the dispersion was tighter so I ultimately went with those. 
 

as I continue to improve, Mizuno will be in my bag in the future! 

[TomBomb51]

My fitting with Club Champion is Saturday. 223 and 225 are on my list to try. I am not sure I will be placing an order through them, but we will see. I have been an S300 player my whole life and if I end up with something other than S300 I would be surprised. I think I can pick up a set pretty cheap before the season starts here in upstate NY.

 

Also on my list:

Miura TC201

Miura CB301

Srixon ZX7

Titleist T100

[PowerCobra98]

4 more weeks until my pre-order arrives...way too many sleeps!!! 😪

[ktyler2]

5 minutes ago, PowerCobra98 said:

4 more weeks until my pre-order arrives...way too many sleeps!!! 😪

 

Do all the pre-orders ship at the same time?

[PowerCobra98]

12 minutes ago, ktyler2 said:

 

Do all the pre-orders ship at the same time?

 

Suppose that depends on if anything was customized and if those components are available.  I would suspect Mizuno will do well out of the gate since they've had pre-orders open for a while now and have certainly been stocking up on components to complete orders.  

[drscott266]

I placed my order yesterday, and while I was there the mizuno component email came in as my guy was ordering.  It showed quite a few KBS shafts as a backlog issue, but none of the new heads were on the list.  We got confirmation from the rep today that my order was in, and he said it should ship around 2/1.  I'm pretty excited, these 225's seem like a perfect fit to my eye and feel really good for the class they are in.  

[xandersingh]

anyone have any experience with the Fli Hi yet? Looking to add a 4 iron to my bag

[HarborMike]

1 hour ago, drscott266 said:

I placed my order yesterday, and while I was there the mizuno component email came in as my guy was ordering.  It showed quite a few KBS shafts as a backlog issue, but none of the new heads were on the list.  We got confirmation from the rep today that my order was in, and he said it should ship around 2/1.  I'm pretty excited, these 225's seem like a perfect fit to my eye and feel really good for the class they are in.  

I’m going to place my order this weekend. I went through a few fittings in the past week and was fitted every time in the Modus 115 stiff shaft. As for the head, am still a bit torn between the 223s and 225s. In each fitting, fitter said I could go either way, comes down to personal preference at this point. Looks aside, was really hard to distinguish between the two. I may have squeezed a few more yards in the 225 with 223 being slightly better in dispersion, spin, and peak height, but really splitting hairs. I know combo is an option, but don’t really want to combo as I like to have same set throughout bad. Also, watching some of the YouTubers (TXG, GolfMagic, 2nd Swing, etc.), seems like they couldn’t tell the difference in feel, looks, and performance in the short irons. I’m probably going to end up with 225 just to get a bit more forgiveness. Also concerned the gapping in the short irons in 223s is too wide (about 5 degrees apart from 8-GW) and don’t like to add bend and add offset in short irons.

 

Also to note (added on a separate thread); a couple days when I did a fitting at a local shop/fitter, the fitter stated that Mizuno had instructed them to pull the KBS C-Taper and C-Taper Light shafts (and a few others) from the fitting cart since they aren’t in stock and back ordered. He also said KBS has been consistently missing their ship and delivery dates with Mizuno and other OEMs. Guess Mizuno did this since they are not confident KBS will meet the demands for pre-order ship dates. 

[STank724]

4 hours ago, xandersingh said:

anyone have any experience with the Fli Hi yet? Looking to add a 4 iron to my bag

I'm curious as well since I'm also on the hunt for a 4i to add to my 223 set (5-pw). Debating between the Fli Hi and 225 and not sure which to choose. In my fitting the 225 launched low, spun low, but carried far. 

 

From the marketing copy, the Fli Hi is slightly larger than the 225 and has increased ball speed. I just want to know if it will also launch/peak higher because I like to bring a 4 iron into greens when the time calls.

FWIW I'm planning to shaft with the Modus 115x (or MMT 105 down the road) and will likely bend it 1* weak. 

[dmeeksDC]

9 hours ago, TomBomb51 said:

My fitting with Club Champion is Saturday. 223 and 225 are on my list to try. I am not sure I will be placing an order through them, but we will see. I have been an S300 player my whole life and if I end up with something other than S300 I would be surprised. I think I can pick up a set pretty cheap before the season starts here in upstate NY.

 

Also on my list:

Miura TC201

Miura CB301

Srixon ZX7

Titleist T100

Some great irons on that list, most

of them pretty traditional construction. I have to think the Mizuno 225 will win on average distance in the group due to its lofts, hollow head and hot face. Fitter I spoke with today said they are consistently longer in fittings vs last year’s HMB and compete with the TM 770/790 and Titleist T200. Another competitor arrived while I was in the shop, the new Callaway Rogue Pro ST. A little larger profile than the 225, but some players may like that as the 225 is fairly compact. The 790 is the largest of this group, the others are all in the same ballpark. 
 

Will be interesting to compare how different each feels as there is a lot of tech in all of these. He said most who try the 225 think it feels fine. They’re definitely clickier than a true forged iron but they feel solid. 
 

 

[TomBomb51]

1 hour ago, dmeeksDC said:

Some great irons on that list, most

of them pretty traditional construction. I have to think the Mizuno 225 will win on average distance in the group due to its lofts, hollow head and hot face. Fitter I spoke with today said they are consistently longer in fittings vs last year’s HMB and compete with the TM 770/790 and Titleist T200. Another competitor arrived while I was in the shop, the new Callaway Rogue Pro ST. A little larger profile than the 225, but some players may like that as the 225 is fairly compact. The 790 is the largest of this group, the others are all in the same ballpark. 
 

Will be interesting to compare how different each feels as there is a lot of tech in all of these. He said most who try the 225 think it feels fine. They’re definitely clickier than a true forged iron but they feel solid. 
 

 

The problem with the 225 or any hotter iron like this is that you can definitely catch some shots TOO hot. I don't want or need that. I'm trying to hit yardages and get more control. I don't necessarily need distance.

[dmeeksDC]

54 minutes ago, TomBomb51 said:

The problem with the 225 or any hotter iron like this is that you can definitely catch some shots TOO hot. I don't want or need that. I'm trying to hit yardages and get more control. I don't necessarily need distance.

Try the 225 and see what you think. I want it all. I always want the distance. And I want control. I don’t see any iron I’ve tried creating a control problem. Playing winter golf tryout right now with Mizuno 921 Hot Metal Pros — hot face, very consistent yardages, a really good iron. Shortens up a course when it is cold and wet, playing long. If I hit them consistently, they fly consistently. I don’t hit them consistently and that will be true of any iron. But I’ll tell ya, you can miss it and still get the ball on the green.
 

There are lots of ways to make an iron fly too far, even a blade. Haven’t experienced that as a problem with the club face. Do the HMPs feel like sweet forged irons I have (New Level, Bridgestone))? No, they feel like a power iron. They’re great at what they do. 
 

What is very common is to see the ball come up short due to a mishit. To score I need to make the short miss not so bad. Which one gives me the least loss in distance and accuracy on a mishit? In that regard the 225 is strong. But I’ll also hit the Rogue ST Pro and I’d hit the Ping 525 if it comes out in time (unlikely).

 

The tech and engineering on these irons is so good now. I’ve seen them on courses and on launch monitors. The greatest variable is always the player from swing to swing. 

[JZ75]

So I wrapped my iron evals with a fitting today at 2nd Swing.  I'm coming from PXG Gen3 P's and the low spin and jumpers just absolutely kill me.  Don't ask why I moved to them from the Apex Pro 19.

 

So over the last few months I've hit a lot of clubs including the i59, i210, T100, T100s and some Miura's.  To date the i210s gave the best numbers for me and although I didn't love the feel I did grab a set at 2nd Swing with my normal shaft (Modus 105 Stiff).

 

That was until I hit the 223's.  I hit them at PGASS and loved the feel so I've been counting down days til my fitting today.  I have not hit a better feeling Iron.  I got better dispersion with the Modus 115 Stiff than the 105 and possibly gained a hair of club speed.  

 

I had been thinking of going 1 Degree weak on 4 - 9 so it was interesting that Aaron the fitter suggested it as well.  It will give me a fraction more spin and decrease offset a hair which I like.  Needless to say I'm pretty pumped to get the new clubs.  I'm heading to Palm Springs on Friday and 2nd Swing is letting me keep the i210's for now so I'll have something other than the PXG's to game.

  

[HarborMike]

2 hours ago, dmeeksDC said:

Try the 225 and see what you think. I want it all. I always want the distance. And I want control. I don’t see any iron I’ve tried creating a control problem. Playing winter golf tryout right now with Mizuno 921 Hot Metal Pros — hot face, very consistent yardages, a really good iron. Shortens up a course when it is cold and wet, playing long. If I hit them consistently, they fly consistently. I don’t hit them consistently and that will be true of any iron. But I’ll tell ya, you can miss it and still get the ball on the green.
 

There are lots of ways to make an iron fly too far, even a blade. Haven’t experienced that as a problem with the club face. Do the HMPs feel like sweet forged irons I have (New Level, Bridgestone))? No, they feel like a power iron. They’re great at what they do. 
 

What is very common is to see the ball come up short due to a mishit. To score I need to make the short miss not so bad. Which one gives me the least loss in distance and accuracy on a mishit? In that regard the 225 is strong. But I’ll also hit the Rogue ST Pro and I’d hit the Ping 525 if it comes out in time (unlikely).

 

The tech and engineering on these irons is so good now. I’ve seen them on courses and on launch monitors. The greatest variable is always the player from swing to swing. 

100% agree with  @dmeeksDC here. Also, how would one know that you would “definitely” catch some hot shots or fliers with the 225 when it hasn’t been released yet or hitting a few 7-iron shots in the bay or range? I haven’t seen any data or opinions that is the case with the 225s. Seems a bit rush to judgement. If anything, expert opinions such as the TXG guys and many fitters rave how controlled the 225s were rather than just point and shoot rockets with Ian making a statement he could game the whole set.