New Mizuno MPs just announced! Mizuno Pro 221/223/225

[TomBomb51]

6 hours ago, HarborMike said:

100% agree with  @dmeeksDC here. Also, how would one know that you would “definitely” catch some hot shots or fliers with the 225 when it hasn’t been released yet or hitting a few 7-iron shots in the bay or range? I haven’t seen any data or opinions that is the case with the 225s. Seems a bit rush to judgement. If anything, expert opinions such as the TXG guys and many fitters rave how controlled the 225s were rather than just point and shoot rockets with Ian making a statement he could game the whole set.

I said you definitely COULD catch some hot shots. Most, if not all irons in this category have the low spin jumper/nukes. Even a set that @dmeeksDC referred to. I've tried the HMP and have had plenty of jumpers. Same with my current set now I'm the long irons, 919 Forged. My short irons at 919 Tour and can control them much better. The only jumpers I catch in the Tours are out of wet rough which you get with any club. I'm definitely going to give the 225 a good look. It's going to be very tough to judge if they won't jump being indoor and on perfect lies. It'll come down to feel and hitting my yardages at that point. I think I may end up with a 225 4 and 5 iron, to be honest. I don't want my shorter irons going further because it will screw up my gapping into my wedges.

[kerila07]

Just an fyi in case anyone is consdering ordering with kbs shafts.  I received the below message after reaching out to kbs. 

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by kerila07

[ktyler2]

14 minutes ago, kerila07 said:

Just an fyi in case anyone is consdering ordering with kbs shafts.  I received the below message after reaching out to kbs. 

Thanks for sharing. Should probably remove her phone number so Caitlin doesn’t get bombarded with inquiries.

[dodgyman]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think I have to upgrade from my mp20s to the 221s. There are many reasons, performance and feel for my swing are noticeably better, but what's also very attractive are better combo opportunities. I combo with the mp20 HMB 5i which is not nearly as nice as the 223 and if (when) I pull the trigger I plan to start the HMB at 6i because Shotscope tells me.

 

Would love to hear other's thoughts on gapping and how to combo these.

 

I'm leaning 221 PW-7, 225 6i (bent 2deg), 225 5i (bent 1deg)

 

On paper, the 223s combo better especially if bent the same way. Effectively 30 and 26 degrees.

 

I tried all 3 heads, didn't see much difference in the 223s and 225s so I'm leaning 225 on the combo for aesthetics more than anything, but I could only test 7irons. I don't know how the 6 and 5 differ between the 3 and the 5. Any of you spent some time thinking through 221 combos?

[HarborMike]

37 minutes ago, dodgyman said:

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think I have to upgrade from my mp20s to the 221s. There are many reasons, performance and feel for my swing are noticeably better, but what's also very attractive are better combo opportunities. I combo with the mp20 HMB 5i which is not nearly as nice as the 223 and if (when) I pull the trigger I plan to start the HMB at 6i because Shotscope tells me.

 

Would love to hear other's thoughts on gapping and how to combo these.

 

I'm leaning 221 PW-7, 225 6i (bent 2deg), 225 5i (bent 1deg)

 

On paper, the 223s combo better especially if bent the same way. Effectively 30 and 26 degrees.

 

I tried all 3 heads, didn't see much difference in the 223s and 225s so I'm leaning 225 on the combo for aesthetics more than anything, but I could only test 7irons. I don't know how the 6 and 5 differ between the 3 and the 5. Any of you spent some time thinking through 221 combos?

Thought about the 221 and 225 combo for aesthetics reasons as well, but going from 6 in 225 to 7 in 221 is way too big a gap for my taste even bent 2 degrees or less especially with an active energenetic head such as 225 . Another option is maybe carrying (2) 6 irons if you are set on 225 and 221s only combo.

Edited January 7, 2022 by HarborMike

[DaRiz]

1 hour ago, dodgyman said:

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think I have to upgrade from my mp20s to the 221s. There are many reasons, performance and feel for my swing are noticeably better, but what's also very attractive are better combo opportunities. I combo with the mp20 HMB 5i which is not nearly as nice as the 223 and if (when) I pull the trigger I plan to start the HMB at 6i because Shotscope tells me.

 

Would love to hear other's thoughts on gapping and how to combo these.

 

I'm leaning 221 PW-7, 225 6i (bent 2deg), 225 5i (bent 1deg)

 

On paper, the 223s combo better especially if bent the same way. Effectively 30 and 26 degrees.

 

I tried all 3 heads, didn't see much difference in the 223s and 225s so I'm leaning 225 on the combo for aesthetics more than anything, but I could only test 7irons. I don't know how the 6 and 5 differ between the 3 and the 5. Any of you spent some time thinking through 221 combos?

 

First of all that's crazy that you think the 221s are an upgrade from the 20s. From everything I have read they are smaller so I figured they would be more demanding. That's great to hear!

 

Second of all I think it is obvious from the aesthetics on the full line of 20s, and now the 22s, that they want you to combo the HMB with the MB, they just flow too perfectly. For people who like the CB look they can go full 223s (or MP20 MMC), but if you are playing a blade in the short irons, I don't know why you would want anything other than the HMB in the long irons. I don't get the people who do the 3-way combo either, it just looks weird having a CB in mid irons between what appear to be 2 blades. Aesthetics aside, Mizuno also made this clear in their SEL where they did 3-4 HMB, 5-P blade. I played a 5i HMB and had to take it out because it was too hot transitioning to a blade 6i. The loft difference is even crazier on the 22s. I think their goal is to get people like me who have combo'd blades for years to play a full set of 225s (which I am planning on doing so good job Mizuno).

[dodgyman]

1 hour ago, DaRiz said:

 

First of all that's crazy that you think the 221s are an upgrade from the 20s. From everything I have read they are smaller so I figured they would be more demanding. That's great to hear!

 

For me specifically it's night and day the 221s performed better, and I honestly wasn't trying to reach that conclusion. I wanted to know if I should talk myself out of blades and switch to 223, and was surprised as well. 

The heads are smaller but it's not a lot, but the hitting area is the same so it's really no different. The gains were small, it's a blade, but for me personally I think the change in the weight distribution is huge. I tend to miss heel side, and found the way the weight is set up just work a lot better. They do spin less and go further (better smash) and I spin the ball enough that this works well for me.

 

I don't have a picture of the exact numbers, but in a long session with the same club (7i) and same shaft (MMT 105s) and same average ss (85) I was getting +2mph ball, slightly lower spin but a lot more consistency front to back. This may be a regression for some, but to me it's like a small step towards the lower spin higher launch/more forgiveness direction with no sacrifice to feel and look.

 

They also feel a bit better too which is also impressive as I love the mp20s.

 

[Brooks_Cupcake]

3 hours ago, DaRiz said:

 

First of all that's crazy that you think the 221s are an upgrade from the 20s. From everything I have read they are smaller so I figured they would be more demanding. That's great to hear!

 

Second of all I think it is obvious from the aesthetics on the full line of 20s, and now the 22s, that they want you to combo the HMB with the MB, they just flow too perfectly. For people who like the CB look they can go full 223s (or MP20 MMC), but if you are playing a blade in the short irons, I don't know why you would want anything other than the HMB in the long irons. I don't get the people who do the 3-way combo either, it just looks weird having a CB in mid irons between what appear to be 2 blades. Aesthetics aside, Mizuno also made this clear in their SEL where they did 3-4 HMB, 5-P blade. I played a 5i HMB and had to take it out because it was too hot transitioning to a blade 6i. The loft difference is even crazier on the 22s. I think their goal is to get people like me who have combo'd blades for years to play a full set of 225s (which I am planning on doing so good job Mizuno).

I found almost 2mph better ball speed same shaft of the 221 vs MP20

[HarborMike]

I’m still really torn on 223 vs. 225s. Having final fitting and purchase tomorrow. Gonna be hard going in with open mind since I tried most of the shaft and head combinations. But we’ll see if the fitter can beat out the Nippon Modus 115 stiff in either head.

 

Thinking I’ll end up with the full set of 225s based on the tie breaker which is what set would I be more comfortable playing with after a few beers 🍻 and cocktails 🍹 in the sun with my buddies especially on golf trips with money on the line 😜

[cprieto01]

Hitting that 223 on the sweet spot... damn!  that's the kind of sweet feeling Mizuno additction feel that keeps you chasing good ball striking!  Pre-order placed! Going to be a slow wait for them to arrive.

[uglande]

16 hours ago, DaRiz said:

I don't get the people who do the 3-way combo either, it just looks weird having a CB in mid irons between what appear to be 2 blades.

Um ... 👇

 

MP-20 HMB (4) MP-54 (5) MP-4 (6-P) s300

 

[TomBomb51]

Just got fitted at club champion.

 

All in all, good experience. I pulled the trigger on 4-PW of the 223 with Project X LZ 6.0.

 

I didn't like that you can only hit 6 irons. I guess this is common but I wasn't aware. They also use trackman and obviously it's indoors and the spin numbers were AWFUL. I had a friend with an indoor setup, he had a Flightscope Xi Tour and it also was terrible with spin so he returned it. He now has a GC3/Launch Pro and it's spot on for indoors. I cannot believe a company like Club Champion can get away with such inaccurate numbers like that. They were using the new Titleist balls too, RCT or something? I was spinning 6 irons 4200rpm. I used my Bridgestone and it got up to 5000rpm MAX. I am not a high spin guy but I expect to be 5400+.

 

Anyways, the 223 felt amazing. Not quite as soft as the Miura MC 501 (good lord that offset) but definitely softer than my JPX 919 Forged. I play the Tours in 7 thru PW right now, but went with a full set of 223.

 

Yardages were spot on. 185 carry with my 919 Forged 6 iron, same with the 223. My 919 Forged was 1.5 degrees stronger too. 

 

My concern is being fit with the wrong numbers. That spin was so stinkin low, I hope the LZs fit me in real world scenarios. I'm a life long S300 player so it'll be weird at first but hopefully it works out.

 

They said if I didn't get a stock Mizuno offering, the heads and shafts would be shipped to CC within 4 weeks and then I'd have them in about 5 weeks. Since Mizuno is building them, I'll be at their mercy as to when they release and build them. I'm hoping before my wedding, which is March 5th.

[Brooks_Cupcake]

7 minutes ago, TomBomb51 said:

Just got fitted at club champion.

 

All in all, good experience. I pulled the trigger on 4-PW of the 223 with Project X LZ 6.0.

 

I didn't like that you can only hit 6 irons. I guess this is common but I wasn't aware. They also use trackman and obviously it's indoors and the spin numbers were AWFUL. I had a friend with an indoor setup, he had a Flightscope Xi Tour and it also was terrible with spin so he returned it. He now has a GC3/Launch Pro and it's spot on for indoors. I cannot believe a company like Club Champion can get away with such inaccurate numbers like that. They were using the new Titleist balls too, RCT or something? I was spinning 6 irons 4200rpm. I used my Bridgestone and it got up to 5000rpm MAX. I am not a high spin guy but I expect to be 5400+.

 

Anyways, the 223 felt amazing. Not quite as soft as the Miura MC 501 (good lord that offset) but definitely softer than my JPX 919 Forged. I play the Tours in 7 thru PW right now, but went with a full set of 223.

 

Yardages were spot on. 185 carry with my 919 Forged 6 iron, same with the 223. My 919 Forged was 1.5 degrees stronger too. 

 

My concern is being fit with the wrong numbers. That spin was so stinkin low, I hope the LZs fit me in real world scenarios. I'm a life long S300 player so it'll be weird at first but hopefully it works out.

 

They said if I didn't get a stock Mizuno offering, the heads and shafts would be shipped to CC within 4 weeks and then I'd have them in about 5 weeks. Since Mizuno is building them, I'll be at their mercy as to when they release and build them. I'm hoping before my wedding, which is March 5th.

news for you my man, that’s actually your spin numbers if you were using RCT. You may gain about 400rpm more outdoors but those numbers you can take to the bank.

 

I’ve tested extensively of Hawk, Quad, TM, etc and those RCT are money for accuracy.

 

 

[cw1209]

20 hours ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

I found almost 2mph better ball speed same shaft of the 221 vs MP20

 

That's crazy. Any difference in spin and clubhead speed? I'm assuming we are talking about fitting heads at the same loft with a fitting shaft at the same length, but that is hard to believe. There is just so little tech in a blade. I would expect to see a 2 mph difference between 221 and 223, but that is easily explained by a material difference and 2* stronger lofts in 223. Objectively 221 is a little smaller and my understand is that CG is slightly higher vs MP20 to lower ball flight. Other than that they should be about the same. 

[TomBomb51]

25 minutes ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

news for you my man, that’s actually your spin numbers if you were using RCT. You may gain about 400rpm more outdoors but those numbers you can take to the bank.

 

I’ve tested extensively of Hawk, Quad, TM, etc and those RCT are money for accuracy.

 

 

I don't understand though. I go to my buddies house who has a perfect setup with a GC3/Launch Pro and it's 1000rpm higher. I trust the camera system much more than and indoor radar system.

 

Also, probably relevant, the RCTs we're beat to piss. I know they have some special surface to help with the Trackman. Well the surface was almost bald which is why I asked to use my Tour B XS.

Edited January 8, 2022 by TomBomb51

[dodgyman]

14 minutes ago, cw1209 said:

 

That's crazy. Any difference in spin and clubhead speed? I'm assuming we are talking about fitting heads at the same loft with a fitting shaft at the same length, but that is hard to believe. There is just so little tech in a blade. I would expect to see a 2 mph difference between 221 and 223, but that is easily explained by a material difference and 2* stronger lofts in 223. Objectively 221 is a little smaller and my understand is that CG is slightly higher vs MP20 to lower ball flight. Other than that they should be about the same. 

 

I also saw 2mph ball speed difference between 221 and MP20. Same swing speed, lower spin and a bit lower launch. Exact same shaft too, I verified on 2 different days and got the same results both times.

[kerila07]

Swapped the c tapers for project x ls since c tapers may not even be available this year.  Estimated to ship first week of feb looking forward to them.

[cw1209]

11 minutes ago, dodgyman said:

 

I also saw 2mph ball speed difference between 221 and MP20. Same swing speed, lower spin and a bit lower launch. Exact same shaft too, I verified on 2 different days and got the same results both times.

 

Not saying you guys are wrong, just hard to believe. Golf monthly did a test and got the following results:

 

 

He suggested that the lower spin in the 221 was likely due to the stock PX LS shaft.

 

Got no problem testing the 221 out to see how they stack up to my MP20's. Just haven't had a chance to hit them yet. 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by cw1209

[dodgyman]

8 minutes ago, cw1209 said:

 

Not saying you guys are wrong, just hard to believe. Golf monthly did a test and got the following results:

 

 

He suggested that the lower spin in the 221 was likely due to the stock PX LS shaft.

 

Got no problem testing the 221 out to see how they stack up to my MP20's. Just haven't had a chance to hit them yet. 

 

While different from my experience this is not really contradictory. He did see increase over 221 (0.5mph vs 2) and corroborates lower spin. Would be interesting to see what his chs was, I deliberately hit enough shots to make sure CHS was within  0.1 of each other. Other difference was that I saw 1 degree or so lower launch, which may be a factor of the change in weight distribution. 

[kwainio]

56 minutes ago, TomBomb51 said:

I don't understand though. I go to my buddies house who has a perfect setup with a GC3/Launch Pro and it's 1000rpm higher. I trust the camera system much more than and indoor radar system.

 

Also, probably relevant, the RCTs we're beat to piss. I know they have some special surface to help with the Trackman. Well the surface was almost bald which is why I asked to use my Tour B XS.

 

Good video on the RCT vs Quad.

 

I've found the RCT to be super accurate.

 

 

[dbelles1]

On 1/5/2022 at 9:54 AM, xandersingh said:

anyone have any experience with the Fli Hi yet? Looking to add a 4 iron to my bag

Bump.

I’m waiting to decide between the two for my 3 and maybe 4 irons.

[Cruisin1966]

4 hours ago, cw1209 said:

 

Not saying you guys are wrong, just hard to believe. Golf monthly did a test and got the following results:

 

 

He suggested that the lower spin in the 221 was likely due to the stock PX LS shaft.

 

Got no problem testing the 221 out to see how they stack up to my MP20's. Just haven't had a chance to hit them yet. 

 

Which iron was used?  7i or 6i?

[JKJKJK]

I had a chance to hit 225(w/ Project X LZ 6.0) and I was very impressed by the feel and the numbers.

 

I usually carry 7 irons around 165 but with 225 I was comfortable hitting it around 173 with 5k backspin.

 

I am not the best swinger but 225 looks very promising.

 

[TomBomb51]

Here are some numbers from my fit today. 223 with PX LZ 6.0 as well. 6 iron. Smash seems to high but I dont know anything about trackman to be honest.

 

[Brooks_Cupcake]

40 minutes ago, TomBomb51 said:

Here are some numbers from my fit today. 223 with PX LZ 6.0 as well. 6 iron. Smash seems to high but I dont know anything about trackman to be honest.

 

very good numbers - here’s a comparison that you can look at including optimized numbers for the 7 iron with the 921 Tour, so you’re in a good spot as long as your land angle is above 45* with a 6 iron with that spin.

 

excellent path numbers btw - very good swing your have going on there.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Brooks_Cupcake

[cw1209]

2 hours ago, Cruisin1966 said:

Which iron was used?  7i or 6i?

7 iron

[hardcaliber]

Question for anyone who put in an order the past few days, are you expecting to get your order on or around the release date? I ordered 2 days ago and go an estimate of late feb, which seems a bit long. 

[TomBomb51]

9 hours ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

very good numbers - here’s a comparison that you can look at including optimized numbers for the 7 iron with the 921 Tour, so you’re in a good spot as long as your land angle is above 45* with a 6 iron with that spin.

 

excellent path numbers btw - very good swing your have going on there.

My land angle was exactly 45* actually.

 

You know more than me so here's another question. Tell me to pound salt if I get too annoying.

 

Is it an accurate fitting with those massive universal adapters on the club heads and shafts? It seemed liked I was swinging a stick with a brick on it, everything was crazy heavy.

 

Also, what do you feel about 6 iron only? Again, I've never been fitted and I mad it very clear that I have a gapping issue between a 4 iron and 5 wood and wanted to work there the most. Obviously we couldn't so we kind of guess and just strengthened the 4 and 5 iron to try and blend it a bit. I find that to be unfortunate as you're paying for an iron fitting but you have to make an educated guess on anything outside of a 6 iron.

[kerila07]

1 hour ago, hardcaliber said:

Question for anyone who put in an order the past few days, are you expecting to get your order on or around the release date? I ordered 2 days ago and go an estimate of late feb, which seems a bit long. 

All depends on the components you ordered.  Late feb doesn’t seem too bad since pre orders have been going on for almost a month.  Hope you didn’t order any kbs shafts those are pretty much impossible to get right now.  

[ktyler2]

1 hour ago, TomBomb51 said:

Is it an accurate fitting with those massive universal adapters on the club heads and shafts? It seemed liked I was swinging a stick with a brick on it, everything was crazy heavy.

I have learned to ALWAYS ask for a swingweight measurement for the clubs I demo, even if it’s at the very end when I’ve found what works best. Recently I was absolutely shocked when I was paying $300 for a fitting and found I was swinging clubs in the C5-C7 range. The truth is for some of those adapters they actually have to bore out a ton of the iron hosel and the club actually ends up lighter after adapter is installed.