How Many Championships Would Bernhard have Won without the Broomstick?

[JaNelson38]

18 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

Lanny hates Bernhard for some reason--- I heard from a reliable source in Fla that the GC and NBC had to get him to back off because a lot of people were complaining because Lanny was constantly running his mouth about the long putter

 

Lanny hates pretty much everyone on the Champions Tour except 'Freddie' Couples.   

 

Lanny had some good success on the PGA Tour, but he only won one event on the senior circuit, and he's still not gotten over being swept out at CBS Sports from the anchor booth.  Lots of guys are doing it better and longer than he did on the golf course, and that clearly bothers him to no end.

[caniac6]

Lanny speaks as if he never hit a bad shot. Lanny was a good player, but he talks like he was the best.

[munichop]

i thought it was common knowledge that Langer was one of the slowest golfers out there. Even Billy Ray mentioned that he is on the clock a lot.  The reality is the governing bodies don't enforce the pace rules the way they do other rules.  Either the rules are poorly written or they don't enforce them.  How else do you get such slow rounds?

[MUNIGRIT]

2 hours ago, BIG STU said:

there may be others but the only 2 successful ones that I have seen that transferred from the broomstick to other putters have been Keegan Bradley and Webb Simpson and they are using like a long arm lock putter. Carl Peterson has dropped off the map. I knew Carl's golf coach at NC State and he said Carl had putted anchored all his golfing life. 

Tim Clark fell off the map too. Also had to do with length and other interests too. 

 

I have messed around with the broomstick and wondered how can anyone putt with one of these things? One if my golf buddies putts better as good as anyone I have played with using one and it is actually one of Langer's old ones. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by MUNIGRIT

[Haroputt]

Langer and McCarron has recent video up demonstrating that they move the hand away from the chest

when they start the putting stroke

Why cant the belly anchored practitioners do the same thing?

When the belly technique putter  was non deem non conforming

They could do the same thing just before they putt by releasing the butt end away from the belly

But Most go to the arm lock method,

I think it just show how much of the belly technique rely on being anchored to work

When the Butt end of the club needs to be attached anywhere other the hands throughout the stroke I believe that more of an anchored stroke

[iBanesto]

3 hours ago, JaNelson38 said:

 

Lanny hates pretty much everyone on the Champions Tour except 'Freddie' Couples.   

 

Lanny had some good success on the PGA Tour, but he only won one event on the senior circuit, and he's still not gotten over being swept out at CBS Sports from the anchor booth.  Lots of guys are doing it better and longer than he did on the golf course, and that clearly bothers him to no end.

 

He loves Billy Ray.

 

Don't forget that.

[Haroputt]

I dont understand why such negative feelings  over different  putting styes.

Obviously if some one stick the putt in his arse and makes putts by wiggling his arse that would be obscene

and should be non conforming stroke

The argument the putter stroke should resemblance conventional  golf swing is not valid

Why allow claw grip, cross handed types strokes ?, doesn't those hand positions  look just as odd as some one holding the broomstick ?

Where to draw the line?

 

 

 

[iBanesto]

17 minutes ago, Haroputt said:

I dont understand why such negative feelings  over different  putting styes.

Obviously if some one stick the putt in his arse and makes putts by wiggling his arse that would be obscene

and should be non conforming stroke

The argument the putter stroke should resemblance conventional  golf swing is not valid

Why allow claw grip, cross handed types strokes ?, doesn't those hand positions  look just as odd as some one holding the broomstick ?

Where to draw the line?

 

 

 

 

Yeah I am not too fussed about whatever putting grip is used, it helps make golf look less homogeneous in 'technique' for outsiders. 

 

If the broomstick was so easy to use and will make more putts, then why doesn't everyone use it? You still have to choose the correct line and pace for the ball to go into the hole.

 

It would be fun to see these techniques again. (Casper and Locke could potentially be considered anchored)

 

 

 

[BIG STU]

6 hours ago, Haroputt said:

I dont understand why such negative feelings  over different  putting styes.

Obviously if some one stick the putt in his arse and makes putts by wiggling his arse that would be obscene

and should be non conforming stroke

The argument the putter stroke should resemblance conventional  golf swing is not valid

Why allow claw grip, cross handed types strokes ?, doesn't those hand positions  look just as odd as some one holding the broomstick ?

Where to draw the line?

 

 

 

Funny you mentioned the putter in the wazoo. I told a guy that one day. We gotten paired with him. He told us that he putted with a broomstick. Evidently someone somewhere had given him crap over it and he was sensitive. He told me he anchored on his chest---- I told him it made no difference to us if he stuck it up his wazoo and putted and the first tee was over there. Come to find out he had a bad back injury and could not bend over to putt. I told him he was welcome to play with us at any time and also welcome in the couple of small groups we played in at that time

[rooski]

I messed around with both a broomstick and belly putter when anchoring was still legal way back in a store one time.

 

The best stroke I could come up with looked like the turns of a Formula 1 race, and I legitimately could not get the ball closer than 5-10 feet away from the hole.

 

After that experience I decided that I personally would never have an issue with the broomstick.

 

Putting is such a personal and difficult action to judge that I think people should be able to putt however they want and how their brain can best judge. I'd have no issue betting against somebody using a chest anchored or belly anchored putter

 

If I had it my way anchoring would still be legal. Along that line my first armlock putter arrives tomorrow, excited to see how it works with my brain 🙂 

Edited October 26, 2021 by rooski

[Body_Visions]

On 10/23/2021 at 11:34 AM, golfandfishing said:

I think players like Langer would have won the same amount putting with crooked tree branches, broken table legs or the latest Scotty Cameron. He was going to win because of his will, effort and determination. The various methods and equipment he used was a way to commit to something that he could practice and repeat consistently. There was nothing magic about the putter or the technique, it was the repeated effort and commitment that brought him success. 

 

On 10/23/2021 at 11:40 AM, bladehunter said:

Yep. I think that’s it.  It about soothing the mind during practice.  Or Tricking it into believing in the “ help “.  And I’m not one who really believes in help at a high level. 
 

kind of like Adam Scott. I’ve studied his stroke with a normal putter from early days. He’s as good as anybody.  He just doesn’t believe it. He’d have won just as much. If he believes it and practiced it. 
 

I’d flip it around and wonder if he might not have won more if he’d putted with a toe down blade , to match that set of hogan blades he used for so long.  
 

I think sometimes a crutch is detrimental to development is what I mean.  

 

I will add to both of these that if you pay attention, you can see him get a bit twitchy around the greens as well, and he still finds a way...

Edited October 27, 2021 by Body_Visions

[Haroputt]

On 10/23/2021 at 8:20 PM, iBanesto said:

 

The original Langer arm lock grip.

 

It is actually a pretty easy way to putt if you get the right putter and grip length.

 

Soren Kjeldsen has been using it for decades.

I had to search this up to see how he putted 

On YouTube I watched old footage of his last masters win in 93 and arm lock style is how he putted in the final round 

 I watch some footage of Langer’s first Master’s win in 85 and in the final round he had switch conventional to cross handed( no arm lock) to win the championship that year 

 

was he really a bad putter or did he like to innovate his style ? 
Tiger changed his swing over the years despite being a good golfer 

[iBanesto]

3 hours ago, Haroputt said:

I had to search this up to see how he putted 

On YouTube I watched old footage of his last masters win in 93 and arm lock style is how he putted in the final round 

 I watch some footage of Langer’s first Master’s win in 85 and in the final round he had switch conventional to cross handed( no arm lock) to win the championship that year 

 

was he really a bad putter or did he like to innovate his style ? 
Tiger changed his swing over the years despite being a good golfer 

 

I don't think you can call Langer a "poor" putter prior to him using the long putter.

 

Just look at his results from 1986 where he was winning and contending in tournaments. Langer was still in the top 10 of the OWGR.

 

It was not like he could not putt at all to earn a living and struggling to make the cut. He probably just missed a lot of putts whilst in contention due to his great iron play.

 

Columns - Year - No. Events - 1st - 2nd - 3rd - 4th to 10th - MC - Year End Ranking

 

[vman]

Seems like a lot of people get upset about Langer and the long putter, I mean we're really only talking about the last 5 years since the anchoring ban. I don't honestly believe Langer would ever cheat and, well, he's only been unanchored since he turned 58, prior to that you could anchor your stroke. I get that some people despise the long putter and they will continue to voice their distaste and fight for justice and the "shortest club in the bag" mantra.🤣

[PowderedToastMan]

To answer the original question-he'd have won a ton, but not as much, IMO. 

[puttingmatt]

Langer would have the same wins or even more, competitive players like Langer will find a way to win, no matter what kind of equipment they use. Langer's  attention to details on the greens makes him one of the best in the game.

[RobertBaron]

Zero. He’d be sweeping floors at a Sbarros. 
 

/sarcasm

Edited October 30, 2021 by RobertBaron

[Forged4ever]

On 10/23/2021 at 11:34 AM, golfandfishing said:

I think players like Langer would have won the same amount putting with crooked tree branches, broken table legs or the latest Scotty Cameron. He was going to win because of his WILL, EFFORT AND DETERMINATION. The various methods and equipment he used was a way to commit to something that he could practice and repeat consistently. There was nothing magic about the putter or the technique, it was the repeated effort and commitment that brought him success. 

G&F gets it, which doesn't surprise me cuz as a Player he was/is in that less than 2%
of the golfers out there, The competitive & Elite Plusses along with the Pros, that know what makes a Player & Champion~
 

It's not their Clubs~
 

It's not their Putters~
 

It's not their Swings~
 

It's not their physical game~
 

It is their MENTAL GAME!!!

 

Along with Will(Drive), Effort & Determination, I might add Focus & especially Discipline. I've lost count of the guys that I've Played with/against who had Tour Boy Talent, one of whom, my former BB Pards, was one of only two Players that Sam ever personally, 💯% staked for a one year run at the Tour, however, off of the course, he had the focus & discipline of a Vegas 'ho at a steamfitters' convention🤷🏻‍♂️. 
 

Besides, Bernhard has one of the five strongest mental games of All-Time in my book, behind only Jack, Tiger, Benny Boy & The Haig. 
 

Regarding GV's question, we could spin it and throw Sam into the discussion for sh*ts 'n giggles and ask how many more Tourneys would Bernhard and Sam have won had they not been struck down by the Yips in the Prime of their careers, forced to try countless ridiculous putting stances, strokes and styles, not to mention myriad putters. Pete had Sam's putter collection from his mid-30's through his 60's, when he had a T-3 in the PGA CHAMPIONSHIP AS A SIXTY-TWO YEAR OLD MAN, and there were over 35 putters in the barrel. It averaged out to just over a new putter a year during that span, though I'm sure that he'd stay with one putter for a few seasons while other times tryin out 2-3 at a time and then dumpin em in the barrel. 

 

Think about that for a second....

 

Even those of you(the vast majority) that have noooooo friggin idea what a quality mental game even much less how to utilize it on the either the range or the course, can surely appreciate that a 62yo OLD MAN competing and placing T3 IN THE MOST COMPETITIVE MAJOR ON PLANET EARTH🌎 did not achieve that feat do you his clubs, putter or stroke???

 

Correct????

 

Ah, f*cl it, I'm gonna exit stage right again and ya won't have to read my novellas, lolol

 

Keep buyin new drivers every year(haha, Maddie still Plays her Nike VR Pro Limited(Tour) driver, changing only the shaft/grip over the last decade), askin strangers who don't know sh*t about you and even less about the swing to look a your swing video or better yet, go grab a new putter😂😂😂

 

Oh yah, just remembered this...

 

Sean Knapp and I were sittin up on the porch overlooking #1 at our club(this pic was taken when I stood up in my chair), watchin three mid-cap(16~ to 21~) members tee off, two of whom were very excited over new drivers. All three sprayed their balls, the one new driver goin hard hook left into the tree line separating 1 & 5 fairway with the other two goin hard right, with the one having to yell "fore" a few times as his ball was right of that sand halfway down the pic on the right, which is in fact the green side bunker for #2. I'm sure the guys on 2  green loved dancin & duckin between putts😂😂

 

So the question that I'd ask is how many more Tourneys would both Gents have won without the Yips and those batty *ss putting strokes and putters entering their lives???

 

Stay Well Bro, Great Post🍻

 

Have a Great Weekend Ladies & Gents👊
RP

 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Forged4ever

[gvogel]

On 11/5/2021 at 6:35 PM, Forged4ever said:

G&F gets it, which doesn't surprise me cuz as a Player he was/is in that less than 2%
of the golfers out there, The competitive & Elite Plusses along with the Pros, that know what makes a Player & Champion~
 

It's not their Clubs~
 

It's not their Putters~
 

It's not their Swings~
 

It's not their physical game~
 

It is their MENTAL GAME!!!

 

Along with Will(Drive), Effort & Determination, I might add Focus & especially Discipline. I've lost count of the guys that I've Played with/against who had Tour Boy Talent, one of whom, my former BB Pards, was one of only two Players that Sam ever personally, 💯% staked for a one year run at the Tour, however, off of the course, he had the focus & discipline of a Vegas 'ho at a steamfitters' convention🤷🏻‍♂️. 
 

Besides, Bernhard has one of the five strongest mental games of All-Time in my book, behind only Jack, Tiger, Benny Boy & The Haig. 
 

Regarding GV's question, we could spin it and throw Sam into the discussion for sh*ts 'n giggles and ask how many more Tourneys would Bernhard and Sam have won had they not been struck down by the Yips in the Prime of their careers, forced to try countless ridiculous putting stances, strokes and styles, not to mention myriad putters. Pete had Sam's putter collection from his mid-30's through his 60's, when he had a T-3 in the PGA CHAMPIONSHIP AS A SIXTY-TWO YEAR OLD MAN, and there were over 35 putters in the barrel. It averaged out to just over a new putter a year during that span, though I'm sure that he'd stay with one putter for a few seasons while other times tryin out 2-3 at a time and then dumpin em in the barrel. 

 

Think about that for a second....

 

Even those of you(the vast majority) that have noooooo friggin idea what a quality mental game even much less how to utilize it on the either the range or the course, can surely appreciate that a 62yo OLD MAN competing and placing T3 IN THE MOST COMPETITIVE MAJOR ON PLANET EARTH🌎 did not achieve that feat do you his clubs, putter or stroke???

 

Correct????

 

Ah, f*cl it, I'm gonna exit stage right again and ya won't have to read my novellas, lolol

 

Keep buyin new drivers every year(haha, Maddie still Plays her Nike VR Pro Limited(Tour) driver, changing only the shaft/grip over the last decade), askin strangers who don't know sh*t about you and even less about the swing to look a your swing video or better yet, go grab a new putter😂😂😂

 

Oh yah, just remembered this...

 

Sean Knapp and I were sittin up on the porch overlooking #1 at our club(this pic was taken when I stood up in my chair), watchin three mid-cap(16~ to 21~) members tee off, two of whom were very excited over new drivers. All three sprayed their balls, the one new driver goin hard hook left into the tree line separating 1 & 5 fairway with the other two goin hard right, with the one having to yell "fore" a few times as his ball was right of that sand halfway down the pic on the right, which is in fact the green side bunker for #2. I'm sure the guys on 2  green loved dancin & duckin between putts😂😂

 

So the question that I'd ask is how many more Tourneys would both Gents have won without the Yips and those batty *ss putting strokes and putters entering their lives???

 

Stay Well Bro, Great Post🍻

 

Have a Great Weekend Ladies & Gents👊
RP

 

 

Thanks Richard.

 

I saw Sam hole three 50 foot putts in a row at the 1968 US Open (Oak Hill) on the practice green, side saddle.  What a player.