LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[kasting333]

Making a tour that’s more international is a good thing for golf imo. 
 

It does seem like LIV is silent partners with the Sunshine Tour and I hope that allows the Australian Open to become a great tournament again. 

[Str8Putt]

7 hours ago, dalehead said:

Gate crashing? Hostile protest? Not a smart way to do it. Have your people buy a ticket and once inside pull out your signs and just peacefully walk around. Have some others ready with their cameras to video them be escorted out by security. Provide the local TV stations with the video of 9/11 families being thrown out. Also plaster it on social media. Kinda sportswashing in reverse.

Again. Most people are fine with you protesting outside a venue. Once you take it inside and causing problems for others people tend to lose sympathy.

Is Trump going to make an appearance? If so you've open another can of worms.

Really I don't think a video of them kicked out will amount to a hill a beans, I think more reasonable people will say getting thrown out is what they deserved. 

Starting sound like people that don't comply with police just to get on the news when they turn a ticket into a felony.

[Duct Tape]

Info about relegation of players at bottom of LIV money list, bringing in new golfers, protection of “captains” and other contracted golfers who can’t cut it otherwise (Phil), and same team members for entire year….

 

https://www.si.com/golf/news/liv-golfs-future-plans-include-relegation-qualifying-tournament  

 

I love this line - “If a captain is in fact relegated, he would still be involved with the management of the team going forward.”

 

i.e.  Indentured servitude 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Duct Tape

[aus10KC]

4 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

LIV wants a TV deal. They have offered to pay Fox to broadcast events, but Fox hasn't said yes yet. 

 

Isn't the point to get paid for the right to broadcast not paying to have your product broadcast. 

 

Fox was terrible at golf and paid to get out of it.

[idrive]

13 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

They have submitted an application for OWGR points. Can you provide a link showing where the 1st two events actually received OWGR points ? 

   

 

 

7 hours ago, jmck said:

Lol, that’s the Asian Tour with a little LIV money sprinkled on top. It’s not a LIV event getting OWGR points, no matter how hard you try to spin it.

 

Quit posting facts.

 

You're raining on the parade of the delusional.

[mjtoal]

11 hours ago, aus10KC said:

 

Television is so old school, LIV is innovative. Do you think the preteens watch TV? No, they watch youtube and tiktok and that is what LIV is going after, you have to think down the road big picture.

 

Yeah, but the same preteens and teens all have attention spans of about 4 nanoseconds and will be on to something new in the time it takes Kevin Na to swing. As soon as it gets really popular, it is done. 

[idrive]

Donald Trump to join Caitlyn Jenner, Charles Barkley and a pair of NFL legends in LIV Golf Bedminster pro-am

 

The ultimate clown show.

[jdl]

Giving away tickets but guess they couldn't give away many pro-am spots? Seems kinda sparse here....

 

 

[Pastit]

7 hours ago, Tennis19 said:

myself included, i havent seen any pro liv guys bash the current pgat guys. nobody is saying, so and so is dumb for not going to liv to collect the huge payday. i enjoy watching golf.  pga, lpga, youtube golf etc... i understand the shotgun start, 48 player field with no cut line is for everyone.. i happen to like it.  ill admit, i was rooting for the liv guys at the open.  made watching the open more enjoyable.   

We call this a “ Race to the Bottom “ over here. 

[PoolPond]

8 hours ago, bobfoster said:

I think the Saudis should pay a billion dollars to every PGA golfer to join their tour, and give them a yacht and a puppy.

 

I mean, why not take their ultimate value proposition to the logical extreme? Would just be a rounding error to the House of Saud. Golf isn't about the game, it is just sheer money, right? 

 

I mean, if you're going to buy an entire global sport, just buy it and get it over with for goodness sake. Heck, give a half billion to the USGA, R&A, the PGA and Augusta, and you could own the majors. Fans would have the incredible opportunity to see the golfers you and Norman decided we should see. 

 

Would make me slightly sad, as I wouldn't be watching pro golf any more (no real interest in seeing three day silly season shotgun starts with YouTube graphics on Trump courses), but actually not that big of a deal. 

 

I have a love affair with this game. Will play it every weekend. Certainly won't watch it if golf broadcasts turn into this freakish TikTok Instsaidiot LIV garbage, but not a big deal. 

 

Was online tonight, not following some LIV player's Twitter feed (full of such breathless excitement about how amazing it is), but booking a Sunday tee time. 

 

May or may not watch golf in the future. But will play it 'till the day I die.

The thing is, for amateur golfers and pro's the love affair with golf is night and day. We play it for fun and recreation, they play it for money and to make a living. That's it. Sure they may get trophies and jackets but at the end of the day they are playing to make every penny they can as it's their job.  They have one job, make money. So yes, you are correct in that for pro's golf isn't about the game, it is just sheer money. There are many tour players who don't love the game as much as many amateurs yet they play it because; 1-they are good at it and 2- they can make a living playing it. They are not out there to get a trophy and no money. They are out there to make money and hopefully get a trophy.   Again, as a life long golf fan and someone who has been on the other side of the ropes for a decade, this is the most entertaining thing to happen to golf in the past 10+ years. I love sitting back and watching it all play out and what makes it the most entertaining is the crying from players, the PGA Tour and golf fans alike. If they were all silent on the matter, the entertainment value would go down ten fold. 

 

[the bishop]

11 minutes ago, jdl said:

Giving away tickets but guess they couldn't give away many pro-am spots? Seems kinda sparse here....

 

 

That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.  There has to be more than that right?  Pro's playing in a pro-am w/out am partners = no reason to be there.

[magnus7319]

11 hours ago, aus10KC said:

 

Television is so old school, LIV is innovative. Do you think the preteens watch TV? No, they watch youtube and tiktok and that is what LIV is going after, you have to think down the road big picture.

Yea… don’t know many pre-teens watching golf - streaming or otherwise. The average age of someone watching golf or buying golf equipment is the same age band that is still watching tv. They might say they going after the young demographic etc but I’m pretty sure I’ve read a few articles about Greg pitching LIV to Fox etc… was just curious is they secured a deal yet. My guess is they will. 

[bcc624]

I’m sad. Sad as a golf fan. A country is buying professional golf and trying to dismantle an American professional sports league and the established professional golf ecosystem. I’m trying to leave the morality piece out of it, but in general I’m against any country/government being involved with providing direct funding to sports, businesses, and etc. the country being Saudis Arabia makes it even worse. Professional golf is going to be diluted for the foreseeable future. You dangle these amounts of money in front of any one, they are going to take it. At the end of the day the PGA Tour can’t compete with unlimited money. It’s not a fair fight or competition. 

[golfandfishing]

12 hours ago, bighitlama said:

 

I think it would be a mistake to believe the players and their agents were not aware of LIVs long range plans when they signed up.   Certainly at least for the time period they signed on for.   If they didn't like what they saw they wouldn't have signed on. 

I think many players are going to be surprised to find themselves playing events and performing at outings, dinners, royal family daycare and several other things in various parts of the globe over the next 5 or 10 years. Pat Perez, Sergio and Patrick Reed are going to find themselves giving bunker lessons in Djibouti to a dozen toddler princes and I doubt they were aware of this a few months ago. They won’t be able to say no without losing all of the blood in their body and their own families will have to tag along so the royal security detail can hold them as collateral until it’s over and every little prince and princess has been thoroughly satisfied. 

[tgws]

why even target little ol golf that nobody cares about

 

if they really wanna stir the pot then pay the top 10 NFL QBs 100 billion each to not play football

 

don't even bother setting up the rival league

[dwboston]

12 minutes ago, the bishop said:

That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.  There has to be more than that right?  Pro's playing in a pro-am w/out am partners = no reason to be there.

 

Pretty sure those are just the "celebrities" playing in the pro-am and they aren't naming the "regular" folks who are playing in it.

[mitchl]

10 minutes ago, magnus7319 said:

Yea… don’t know many pre-teens watching golf - streaming or otherwise. The average age of someone watching golf or buying golf equipment is the same age band that is still watching tv. They might say they going after the young demographic etc but I’m pretty sure I’ve read a few articles about Greg pitching LIV to Fox etc… was just curious is they secured a deal yet. My guess is they will. 

I don’t think anyone cares about preteens, but what the poster got wrong is that it’s teenagers and twentysomethings and even into thirties, it is YouTube and streaming.   My daughter is headed to college and neither her nor her roommate are taking a TV because they have laptops and iPads and iPhones.   Btw, she streams PGA & LPGA on her phone when she is at the course, the only LIV she has seen is a few minutes while I have had it on.  

[smashdn]

16 hours ago, jdl said:

Right, just using your time frame:

 

Isn't that what LIV has essentially given us?

 

And we're never getting those great fields because LIV is turning away those top players....

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-league-format-2023-refining-business-model-turning-away-top-50-players

 

Honestly, after reading that I have more questions than answers.  LIV is taking a turn either I didn't expect or didn't understand from the beginning.  My intake of the events will likely not change, it is just another mechanism to watch golf shots to me.  I do not see my self getting personally invested in a team nor a single player.  (I don't count myself as having a "favourite" player on the PGAT nor players I really root against.)

 

While I understand the optics of kicking out the low(er) profile guys is not good, how do you ensure significant and substantial strength of field (even with their relegation/promotion idea) to keep OWGR points sufficient enough to keep the guys who need that happy, without cutting the fat so-to-speak?  Expecting some of the "home-grown" talent they signed to blossom into a true draw doesn't seem likely just from a pure percentages standpoint.  All the while you have to ensure that financially, the money being paid to lower level LIV players competes favourably with the potential money that they could get through KF and PGAT.

[puttfordoux]

28 minutes ago, bcc624 said:

I’m sad. Sad as a golf fan. A country is buying professional golf and trying to dismantle an American professional sports league and the established professional golf ecosystem. I’m trying to leave the morality piece out of it, but in general I’m against any country/government being involved with providing direct funding to sports, businesses, and etc. the country being Saudis Arabia makes it even worse. Professional golf is going to be diluted for the foreseeable future. You dangle these amounts of money in front of any one, they are going to take it. At the end of the day the PGA Tour can’t compete with unlimited money. It’s not a fair fight or competition. 

LIV has brought to light what I'm sure other entities keep secret. Where the PGA Tour has an advantage is their affiliation with corporations and the charity aspect. LIV will never compete in that realm.

[the bishop]

19 minutes ago, dwboston said:

 

Pretty sure those are just the "celebrities" playing in the pro-am and they aren't naming the "regular" folks who are playing in it.

Fair enough, but why wouldn't the non-celebrities want their names to be published?  Is it the controversy over the funding source of the tour?  Maybe a participating am works for a company that represents or does business with a company that lost employees on 9/11?  Or want to play w/pro's but not have their names (and by extension companies) associated w/LIV?

[smashdn]

30 minutes ago, bcc624 said:

I’m sad. Sad as a golf fan. A country is buying professional golf and trying to dismantle an American professional sports league and the established professional golf ecosystem. I’m trying to leave the morality piece out of it, but in general I’m against any country/government being involved with providing direct funding to sports, businesses, and etc. the country being Saudis Arabia makes it even worse. Professional golf is going to be diluted for the foreseeable future. You dangle these amounts of money in front of any one, they are going to take it. At the end of the day the PGA Tour can’t compete with unlimited money. It’s not a fair fight or competition. 

 

PGA Tour is going to be diluted.  (Same way the PGAT took the top players from the ET.)  Professional golf has just as many top level professional players as it ever has.  The top 100 players in the world are the top 100 regardless of where they play.  Same as in soccer/football.  The domestic leagues ebb and flow with which one is "best" or strongest.  Ultimately though there is a mechanism in place where the top teams/players play.  In soccer that is the World Cup and the continental cups as well as club cups.  In golf it is the majors.

 

IMO this should elevate the majors.  You will have four opportunities to see the best players from the three "leagues" going head to head.

[mitchl]

1 hour ago, Duct Tape said:

 

I love this line - “If a captain is in fact relegated, he would still be involved with the management of the team going forward.”

 

i.e.  Indentured servitude 

 

 

It is in fact a form of indentured servitude, except its to the tune of tens of millions.   From the article posted a few pages back, if players don’t play, they may have to return some of the advance money.  Ouch.

 

But I think one of the weaknesses of the team stuff is that there is no roaming captain/coach/assistants to captain their teams.   I also don’t understand what a captain does other than pick a team, because if you aren’t making your pairs or setting the matchups, in this format - there is zero strategy - it is just get the best score you can.   I was really hoping when they started talking about the different format, they meant stroke play or different games.   Not shotgun starts, which is the only different format I see, and my absolute least favorite format to play, or watch.

[the bishop]

19 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

Honestly, after reading that I have more questions than answers.  LIV is taking a turn either I didn't expect or didn't understand from the beginning.  My intake of the events will likely not change, it is just another mechanism to watch golf shots to me.  I do not see my self getting personally invested in a team nor a single player.  (I don't count myself as having a "favourite" player on the PGAT nor players I really root against.)

 

While I understand the optics of kicking out the low(er) profile guys is not good, how do you ensure significant and substantial strength of field (even with their relegation/promotion idea) to keep OWGR points sufficient enough to keep the guys who need that happy, without cutting the fat so-to-speak?  Expecting some of the "home-grown" talent they signed to blossom into a true draw doesn't seem likely just from a pure percentages standpoint.  All the while you have to ensure that financially, the money being paid to lower level LIV players competes favourably with the potential money that they could get through KF and PGAT.

To some extent I think this is the result of the PGA Tour banning players who participate in LIV.  The DPWT has not followed suit but if say LIV ends up with 48 of the top say 70 players in the world.  

If a guy gets relegated out of that group as it stands (until the practice of banning on the PGA Tour is resolved in court) the only avenue to play would be the DPWT or Asian Tour or maybe some other lesser tour where purses are a lot smaller. 

A guy ranked 65th would expect to get in to most PGA Tour events so getting spit out the back without that option isn't attractive so I think closing shop for now is a way for LIV to protect what they have and also who else wants to join until there's a little more clarity the ability to move between tours, participate in majors, ranking points, etc..

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by the bishop

[magnus7319]

17 minutes ago, mitchl said:

I don’t think anyone cares about preteens, but what the poster got wrong is that it’s teenagers and twentysomethings and even into thirties, it is YouTube and streaming.   My daughter is headed to college and neither her nor her roommate are taking a TV because they have laptops and iPads and iPhones.   Btw, she streams PGA & LPGA on her phone when she is at the course, the only LIV she has seen is a few minutes while I have had it on.  

Yea…. Streaming is part of a comprehensive media package. I’d be shocked if it’s the only channel they will distribute coverage. The PGA Tour has a $2.7B package with nbc/cbs/espn with includes the streaming. 
 

I guess we will see… but I suspect if they are brining on Feherty & perhaps Barkley they will want to maximize the way their product can be consumed. 

[jdl]

35 minutes ago, dwboston said:

 

Pretty sure those are just the "celebrities" playing in the pro-am and they aren't naming the "regular" folks who are playing in it.

Probably correct but still would expect a few more notables to be there.

 

Here's the full list:

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by jdl

[dwboston]

3 minutes ago, jdl said:

Probably correct but still would expect a few more notables to be there.

 

Phil isn't listed as playing in the Pro-Am, but he's on the list for the tournament.  😕

[dwboston]

14 minutes ago, the bishop said:

Fair enough, but why wouldn't the non-celebrities want their names to be published?  Is it the controversy over the funding source of the tour?  Maybe a participating am works for a company that represents or does business with a company that lost employees on 9/11?  Or want to play w/pro's but not have their names (and by extension companies) associated w/LIV?

 

I'd bet it's a LIV decision so as not have people doxxed by the media just for playing in a pro-am.

[jdl]

 

[the bishop]

5 minutes ago, dwboston said:

 

I'd bet it's a LIV decision so as not have people doxxed by the media just for playing in a pro-am.

I think at some point LIV is going to have to address the funding issue and the 9/11 angle of it in more depth beyond expressing sympathy to victims and their families.  The 9/11 survivors group(s) probably aren't going away anytime soon and with a limited schedule they'll have plenty of time to organize between events.  At least the ones held in the U.S.  So lot's of time to organize and co-opt any media outlets they can to report on this angle.

[ChipStrokes]

14 hours ago, subrew said:

 

Many in this thread are acting like this is new news.  But LIV invested in the Asian Tour last year, and the four International Series events being run this year have been on the schedule for 10 months.  Scheduled long enough for OWGR to recognize them, and award them points.  This was discussed 50+ pages ago in this thread, but the 4-5 people with the highest post counts in this thread aren't really interested in the details.  

 

13 hours ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Yahtzee ! But all it takes is one poster to latch on and you have something.

    

LOL the lack of self awareness is incredible.

 

best thing i've read on here in at least a week.