LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[BMC]

Smells like the World Football League to me.

[bobfoster]

The PGA Tour did, in fact, increase player's compensation. $838MM in purses and ancillary earnings in 2022 - due to the new media contracts. 

 

https://www.pgatour.com/news/2021/11/22/pga-tours-unprecedented-momentum-results-in-increased-purses.html

 

I have no doubt the LIV guaranteed money will attract attention, but to my mind, the LIV business model simply doesn't compute. Do not see how it is sustainable. Can Norman, in conjunction with the Saudis get $255MM together as an initial investment? Sure. But how does it possibly break even over time? 

 

The PGA grosses $1.5B annually now. But they run a tournament nearly every week - several dozen in a season. All of them four days (where the networks can sell advertising - the ultimate source of most revenues).

 

The LIV will have only 8, three day tournaments (one less day of ad time/sales). Further, only four of the eight events with be in the US (by far the largest golf market in the world). Even further, while the LIV may get a few name players, the majority of the big guys seem to be sticking with the PGA. A three day tourney, with a smaller field, half filled with B-listers is not going to earn anything remotely close to $255MM in network contracts.

 

The numbers just do not add up. You can't build a profitable league with a handful of events filled mostly with Pat Perez's, and a few known PGA names in their twilight years. With Monahan hinting at suspensions or even lifetime bans on players that played LIV, a lot of the younger guys might be very spooked about playing even a single year - despite the money - in events that might disappear in a couple years. 

 

PS. We were all waiting for this announcement, but I find it very curious they only announced the structure, didn't name a single name that had committed to play even a single event. They've got a little over three months to get 48 players signed up for the first event. They must have a least a few already signed up (you don't go from 0 to 48 by early June). The only explanation I can think of (perhaps someone else here has an idea?) is that they already do have some, but have not yet gotten any marquis names. And it would be seriously embarrassing to announce the SGL with great fanfare, with a preliminary roster that made the golf world say "Seriously? Bleh."

 

PPS. I would be very surprised if Phil played. After publicly stating that yes, the Saudi's were murderous thugs, but he was only using support for them to get the PGA Tour to give players more money ... well, he's lucky he wasn't the 82nd public execution last Saturday. They take a pretty dim view of people that trash-talk the regime.

 

 

[Holy Moses]

6 hours ago, macnewma said:

The sponsors will play a very big role in this. Sponsors need eyeballs on their players and that means they need TV ratings. TV ratings are driven primarily by strength of field.

 

Yes, the top players in golf aren't guaranteed prize money outside of WGCs. But the top players all have large endorsement deals. Most of those deals have exit clauses if the players don't play. But the players don't need to win to cash those checks.

 

So let's assume it is Hovland that is secretly interested in playing the SGL. Ping and his other sponsors are paying him a substantial amount as one of the most promising stars. So Hovland bolts and plays 8 events plus any majors he qualifies for (he hasn't won a major so that becomes precarious). Those 8 events get little to no TV coverage and unless half the top 10 bolts, the fields will look like the Barracuda + 1.

Sponsors won't shell out long for this invisible product (not to mention the bad press). The players will be trading one guaranteed money source for another. They might come out ahead in the short term, but we know Ping/Titleist/Nike etc will keep sponsoring players. What if SGL lasts 2-3 years?

The other catch for the league is the OWGR math. If players successfully get banned and about 3-5 of the top 10 and half the top 20 don't jump ship, playing in these events will diminish these players ongoing OWGR.

Take Joaquin Niemann. He is 23 and has no top 20's in majors. He has won twice which gives him a few years of PGA Tour exemptions, but he relies on his OWGR to get into majors. He is currently ranked 18th.

If Niemann left and played SGL for 2 years without being allowed entry to PGA or DP tour events, he would have virtually zero chance at entry into the Masters and other majors.

 

His sponsors would have to view that as a major risk to his visibility and value as an endorser. Further, he would have to bet on the SGL enduring for the long haul or the windfall of 2-3 years would be a long term loss.

 

The two biggest catches for the SGL are the inability to offer players a top 50 OWGR (needed for Masters and Open...PGA and US open have similar reqs) and the lack of eyeballs week to week. It is a chicken and egg thing. There would need to be a significant critical mass of players for it to have legs. I'd estimate that to be 7 of the top 10 and 15 of the top 20.

 

My guess is that for year one, you will see a field of Asian Tour guys that aren't PGA or DP Tour members. It would be difficult to legally exclude a non-member from future PGA Tour membership. It is significantly different than doing the same to a current member.

A lot of player contracts are predicated on playing at least 15-20 PGA Tour events. Will be interesting to see if SGL events count towards that.

[Johnnypenso]

24 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

The PGA Tour did, in fact, increase player's compensation. $838MM in purses and ancillary earnings in 2022 - due to the new media contracts. 

 

https://www.pgatour.com/news/2021/11/22/pga-tours-unprecedented-momentum-results-in-increased-purses.html

 

I have no doubt the LIV guaranteed money will attract attention, but to my mind, the LIV business model simply doesn't compute. Do not see how it is sustainable. Can Norman, in conjunction with the Saudis get $255MM together as an initial investment? Sure. But how does it possibly break even over time? 

 

The PGA grosses $1.5B annually now. But they run a tournament nearly every week - several dozen in a season. All of them four days (where the networks can sell advertising - the ultimate source of most revenues).

 

The LIV will have only 8, three day tournaments (one less day of ad time/sales). Further, only four of the eight events with be in the US (by far the largest golf market in the world). Even further, while the LIV may get a few name players, the majority of the big guys seem to be sticking with the PGA. A three day tourney, with a smaller field, half filled with B-listers is not going to earn anything remotely close to $255MM in network contracts.

 

The numbers just do not add up. You can't build a profitable league with a handful of events filled mostly with Pat Perez's, and a few known PGA names in their twilight years. With Monahan hinting at suspensions or even lifetime bans on players that played LIV, a lot of the younger guys might be very spooked about playing even a single year - despite the money - in events that might disappear in a couple years. 

 

PS. We were all waiting for this announcement, but I find it very curious they only announced the structure, didn't name a single name that had committed to play even a single event. They've got a little over three months to get 48 players signed up for the first event. They must have a least a few already signed up (you don't go from 0 to 48 by early June). The only explanation I can think of (perhaps someone else here has an idea?) is that they already do have some, but have not yet gotten any marquis names. And it would be seriously embarrassing to announce the SGL with great fanfare, with a preliminary roster that made the golf world say "Seriously? Bleh."

 

PPS. I would be very surprised if Phil played. After publicly stating that yes, the Saudi's were murderous thugs, but he was only using support for them to get the PGA Tour to give players more money ... well, he's lucky he wasn't the 82nd public execution last Saturday. They take a pretty dim view of people that trash-talk the regime.

 

 

I don't think the usual profit/loss calculations apply here. The Saudis have money literally flowing out of the ground. If they lose $50 or $100 million per year on this it's not that big of a deal. I hope it does start with journeymen, KF Tour guys, DP Tour cast offs etc. because once the better players see cheques being cashed by players they think they can beat with their eyes closed over 54 holes it will attract better players. More competition is better for everyone.

[Holy Moses]

9 minutes ago, Johnnypenso said:

I don't think the usual profit/loss calculations apply here. The Saudis have money literally flowing out of the ground. If they lose $50 or $100 million per year on this it's not that big of a deal. I hope it does start with journeymen, KF Tour guys, DP Tour cast offs etc. because once the better players see cheques being cashed by players they think they can beat with their eyes closed over 54 holes it will attract better players. More competition is better for everyone.

The Saudis don’t care about making money in this league because that’s not the goal of it

[BenSeattle]

5 hours ago, lazyjc4 said:

Teams change every event. 

 

This sounds bizarre to me.  How is any fan going to develop a rooting interest in a "team" if the members are swapped around for every event.  And how about Greg Norman attending his first Ryder Cup last September and being thrilled with the energy for a team concept?  Hey, dummy... it's the RYDER CUP; an event with history, tradition and a bi-annual battle of "us" against "them."  You're going to try and re-create that impact just because you've decided on a handful of "teams? Good luck with that.

[BenSeattle]

5 hours ago, Chrysalis99 said:

What’s going to be very interesting this year is Fred Ridley’s press conference. There’s no doubt he’s going to be asked about it and it’s almost guaranteed they are discussing these events in ANGC board room right now. Hard to say where they end up since many of their members are invested in/with the Saudis. What Ridley says or doesn’t say will tell us which direction the wind is blowing. 

 

Reporter: "Chairman Ridley, the word is that three-times Masters champion Phil Mickelson will not be at the tournament this year.  Can you tell us why?"

 

"Well, as you know, it's tradition that any winner of the Masters receives a lifetime exemption but it's also true that the tournament is an Invitational.  Phil didn't receive his invite this year?  Hmmmm.... perhaps it got lost in the mail."

 

 

[BenSeattle]

1 hour ago, bobfoster said:

 

I have no doubt the LIV guaranteed money will attract attention, but to my mind, the LIV business model simply doesn't compute. Do not see how it is sustainable. Can Norman, in conjunction with the Saudis get $255MM together as an initial investment? Sure. But how does it possibly break even over time? 

 

As I stated earlier, the Saudi family, even with 15,000 members, is worth some $1.2 TRILLION dollars.  These guys buy 300 million-dollar yachts like you and I buy golf balls.  There is no genuine "business model" to this venture; you don't need to be profitable -- EVER -- when you have a bottomless supply of oil money.  This league is intended for two purposes only: to further the Saudis sportswashing efforts that will draw attention away from their human rights abuses and to allow puppet frontman Greg Norman to gain a measure of revenge on the PGA Tour.  That's it, nothing more.

[Holy Moses]

If the SGL doesn’t get any big names, OWGR points won’t matter because the points will be so small it won’t help players. The SGL put their schedule on the Tour’s weak events with the hope that they can play both Tours. All comes down to the PGA Tour’s court battle over the expected ban.

[Barfolomew]

22 minutes ago, BenSeattle said:

 

As I stated earlier, the Saudi family, even with 15,000 members, is worth some $1.2 TRILLION dollars.  These guys buy 300 million-dollar yachts like you and I buy golf balls.  There is no genuine "business model" to this venture; you don't need to be profitable -- EVER -- when you have a bottomless supply of oil money.  This league is intended for two purposes only: to further the Saudis sportswashing efforts that will draw attention away from their human rights abuses and to allow puppet frontman Greg Norman to gain a measure of revenge on the PGA Tour.  That's it, nothing more.

 

Interestingly..... its seemed to bring more attention to Saudi's human rights abuses

 

It's all anyone is talking or writing about.  I'm doing it now see... not about how to lower my golf scores and have more fun doing it 🦆

 

 

[CaseyC]

8 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

If the SGL doesn’t get any big names, OWGR points won’t matter because the points will be so small it won’t help players. The SGL put their schedule on the Tour’s weak events with the hope that they can play both Tours. All comes down to the PGA Tour’s court battle over the expected ban.

 

putting it against the weak events could work against the SGL.  If the big names don't go, the middle names won't go because they need to play in those PGA tournaments to try and keep their cards

[BNGL]

Definitely excited to see the courses, Pumpkin Ridge and The International. Trump Golf Links and Rich Harvest Farms is first rate as well. I’d assume the international venues are first rate as well!

Edited March 18, 2022 by BNGL

[ashortgame]

I was under the assumption that the players will consist of 30 players from the Asian Tour and so that would mean SGL need 18 others to make up the 48.

FWIW here is my pick of who's joining: (edit as you please)

Justin Rose

Adam Scott

Lee Westwood 

Gary Woodland

Cameron Champ

Webb Simpson

Charl Schwartzel

Jason Kokrak

Sangmoon Bae

Martin Kaymer

Danny Willett

Graeme McDowell

Patrick Reed

Keegan Bradley

Ryan Fox

David Lipsky

Francesco Molinari

Andrew Johnson

[ChipStrokes]

4 hours ago, bobfoster said:

PS. We were all waiting for this announcement, but I find it very curious they only announced the structure, didn't name a single name that had committed to play even a single event. They've got a little over three months to get 48 players signed up for the first event.

i wouldn’t announce a single name ahead of time. 

 

the PGA tour may or may not have threatened their players with bans if they play SGL events. so why would you give them three months to make life hell for the guys who are coming to play in your events?

 

my gut feeling is there are a few bigger names signed on for the first event. if i was norman and the SGL, i’d keep that as close to the vest as possible. 

[bobfoster]

2 hours ago, BenSeattle said:

 

As I stated earlier, the Saudi family, even with 15,000 members, is worth some $1.2 TRILLION dollars.  These guys buy 300 million-dollar yachts like you and I buy golf balls.  There is no genuine "business model" to this venture; you don't need to be profitable -- EVER -- when you have a bottomless supply of oil money.  This league is intended for two purposes only: to further the Saudis sportswashing efforts that will draw attention away from their human rights abuses and to allow puppet frontman Greg Norman to gain a measure of revenge on the PGA Tour.  That's it, nothing more.

Nice stats, but unsure how relevant. The House of Saud is, collectively, worth a lot of money. But $1.2T (bolded or not) is meaningless. It is only a handful of these 15K people that are involved. And the family is notorious for incredible infighting, at the levels of the Medici family, or the ancient Romans. The disputes are continual, they don't just try to kill people that talk nasty about them, they assassinate each other. It is a viper's nest of court intrigue. Always has been, even prior to the discovery of oil, when they were living in tents in the desert.

 

And Norman is involved. He put up at least some of the money, and has to make this thing work. He has a bit of money, relatively speaking, but not "$1.2 trillion". The Saudis can see this as a rounding-error hobby, but Norman can't. 

 

Further, if the intent is "sportswashing", that only works if the SGL is seen as credible, and is broadcast. To do that, networks have to agree to pay the tour, and to do that, they'll need to sell advertising. And they aren't going to do that if it is B-level players. If you are implying that the Saudis and Norman will not only pay $255MM in purses, but also pay networks for broadcasts, instead of getting paid by them, that's a little insane. And - what advertiser would sponsor this, or associate themselves with with something that is surrounded by such negative juju?

 

In truth, in most of the western, golf watching world, this has been an absolute PR disaster for the Saudis. No one is talking about the golf. And how excited they are about the new league (because it isn't a "new league", it is simply trying to cherry pick the players we all are already watching). The press, and a lot of golf discussions (on boards like this and on courses) are mostly talking about disastrous Saudi Arabian humans rights. 

 

If this is, indeed, sportswashing, it has gone seriously bad. Suspecting the Saudis are looking for a way out - this is not the sort of attention they wanted. And they'll have no problem throwing Norman under the bus on a whim. 

 

 

[BTO]

26 minutes ago, ashortgame said:

I was under the assumption that the players will consist of 30 players from the Asian Tour and so that would mean SGL need 18 others to make up the 48.

FWIW here is my pick of who's joining: (edit as you please)

Justin Rose

Adam Scott

Lee Westwood 

Gary Woodland

Cameron Champ

Webb Simpson

Charl Schwartzel

Jason Kokrak

Sangmoon Bae

Martin Kaymer

Danny Willett

Graeme McDowell

Patrick Reed

Keegan Bradley

Ryan Fox

David Lipsky

Francesco Molinari

Andrew Johnson

I have a feeling Victor Dubuisson might be a candidate. 

[bobfoster]

16 minutes ago, ChipStrokes said:

i wouldn’t announce a single name ahead of time. 

 

the PGA tour may or may not have threatened their players with bans if they play SGL events. so why would you give them three months to make life hell for the guys who are coming to play in your events?

 

my gut feeling is there are a few bigger names signed on for the first event. if i was norman and the SGL, i’d keep that as close to the vest as possible. 

The PGA did threaten. And waiting to announce does nothing but prove you are not a legitimate tour. Every other tourney makes a big deal out of announcing who will be playing. How you build viewership. If a tour needs to actually hide the names of the participants and the network where it will be broadcast until the last minute ... doesn't that strike as being incredibly surreal? That isn't how anything works in any pro sport. 

[bscinstnct]

26 minutes ago, ashortgame said:

I was under the assumption that the players will consist of 30 players from the Asian Tour and so that would mean SGL need 18 others to make up the 48.

FWIW here is my pick of who's joining: (edit as you please)

Justin Rose

Adam Scott

Lee Westwood 

Gary Woodland

Cameron Champ

Webb Simpson

Charl Schwartzel

Jason Kokrak

Sangmoon Bae

Martin Kaymer

Danny Willett

Graeme McDowell

Patrick Reed

Keegan Bradley

Ryan Fox

David Lipsky

Francesco Molinari

Andrew Johnson

Good list as far as a prediction goes. How bout Rickie?
 

Of course if that were a PGA Tour field, nobody would watch! 🤣
 

But Webb? Why you think he go? 
 

You know something, Bud?

 

 

[tacklingdummy]

10 hours ago, CaseyC said:

In addition to OWGR challenges, players who play the 8 events may have trouble keeping their PGA tour cards.  It appears most PGA players play 20 -30 PGA events per year.   Playing the minimum number of events may not be enough for players to keep their cards.

 

 

On the PGA tour there is a requirement to play a minimum of 15 events. So, 23 events for the year would be a normal schedule granted that players will legally be allowed to play on the PGA tour as well as LIV events. 

 

 

 

[bobfoster]

9 minutes ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

 

On the PGA tour there is a requirement to play a minimum of 15 events. So, 23 events for the year would be a normal schedule granted that players will legally be allowed to play on the PGA tour as well as LIV events. 

 

 

 

Completely secondary to the fact that you sign contracts when you get your PGA Tour card. It is a "privilege, not a right". If you have a Card, you can only play non-PGA sanctioned events with the approval of the PGA Tour. The PGA Tour has the authority to say "choose". Yes, would be challenged in court, but they'd probably win. 

[Holy Moses]

50 minutes ago, ashortgame said:

I was under the assumption that the players will consist of 30 players from the Asian Tour and so that would mean SGL need 18 others to make up the 48.

FWIW here is my pick of who's joining: (edit as you please)

Justin Rose

Adam Scott

Lee Westwood 

Gary Woodland

Cameron Champ

Webb Simpson

Charl Schwartzel

Jason Kokrak

Sangmoon Bae

Martin Kaymer

Danny Willett

Graeme McDowell

Patrick Reed

Keegan Bradley

Ryan Fox

David Lipsky

Francesco Molinari

Andrew Johnson

What a sad group of players

[ChipStrokes]

23 minutes ago, bobfoster said:

The PGA did threaten. And waiting to announce does nothing but prove you are not a legitimate tour. Every other tourney makes a big deal out of announcing who will be playing. How you build viewership. If a tour needs to actually hide the names of the participants and the network where it will be broadcast until the last minute ... doesn't that strike as being incredibly surreal? That isn't how anything works in any pro sport. 

i wasn’t sure if the threats were confirmed or not. thanks for clarifying.

 

maybe you’re right. maybe they have nobody. i don’t think so, though. i truly don’t believe they’d announce 8 events if they had little more than a field of no-names to put out there. 

 

i’m not saying it’s being done by the book in any sense of the word, i just have a feeling norman has a good hand and he’s holding his cards close. 

[bobfoster]

1 hour ago, ChipStrokes said:

i wasn’t sure if the threats were confirmed or not. thanks for clarifying.

 

maybe you’re right. maybe they have nobody. i don’t think so, though. i truly don’t believe they’d announce 8 events if they had little more than a field of no-names to put out there. 

 

i’m not saying it’s being done by the book in any sense of the word, i just have a feeling norman has a good hand and he’s holding his cards close. 

You may have a point. In fact, we are all just speculating given the dramatic absence of actual information. I'm keeping an open mind. But this is, like, the second or third "league" Norman has tried to start to compete with the PGA. He's got a bee under his bonnet, a burr under his saddle (as we who have lived in Montana say) about the PGA. First attempt was in the 90s when he was still important on Tour. Failed badly. 

 

But his MO has been pretty consistent. Lotsa marketing hype, but has never managed to execute. None of the genuinely important golfers ever signed on to his whims. They saw him for what he is. Yes, now he has Saudi money backing him - he is using them, and they are using him, each for their own purposes. As Phil was using this for his own purposes. 

 

But the top 50 in the world today have great agents. That can do the cost/benefit, risk/reward calculations. The PGA Tour is the giant in the golfing world (for all its downsides). It is the Tour the best want to be on. Agents make their money by maximizing client income. And when you are talking about the top 25, they make far more from endorsements than from actual tourney purses. You aren't going to get that sponsor money from playing on a Tour no one watches. 

 

If the PGA says (as it has threatened to) "pick - SGL, or PGA, you can't have both", no credible agent would say "risk another Norman mood vs. stay with the PGA". 

 

I know, sounds harsh and cold and all realpolitic. But - get this - the best golfers are the best because they are great at golf. Most of them aren't that great at business. They outsource that. Whether the SGL succeeds will not be based on golfers, it will be based on the calculations of the agents of golfers. 

 

Tiger, since turning pro in 1996, has made about $120MM in purses from winning tourneys. He's made about $1.5 billion in endorsements. If you are his agent, would you advise him to play the LIV Tour? Good grief, no. And neither would the agents of any of the up and coming young bucks. 

 

Yeah, the Saudis have money, but no one should underestimate the traditions, and power, of the PGA Tour. It is the dominant Tour on the planet in our sport, and is willing and able to play serious hardball to stay dominant. 

 

Anyone can like that or hate that (as Phil apparently does), but I think this is just reality. In the long run, I don't think Norman has a chance. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by bobfoster

[tacklingdummy]

1 hour ago, bobfoster said:

Completely secondary to the fact that you sign contracts when you get your PGA Tour card. It is a "privilege, not a right". If you have a Card, you can only play non-PGA sanctioned events with the approval of the PGA Tour. The PGA Tour has the authority to say "choose". Yes, would be challenged in court, but they'd probably win. 

 

Are you an attorney that looked specifically at all the contracts between the PGA tour/players and the LIV contracts in detail? If not, that is just conjecture. From the Subpar podcast, Norman seems pretty confident that players will be able to play both even though PGA has publicly said they won't allow it. Not sure why Greg Norman and LIV think that or how they are going to make it work with players playing both tours. However, there might be some loopholes in those contract fine print that allows them or they will legally challenge the PGA tour restrictions. Also, I'm not sure if the all the majors fall under the PGA tour umbrella because there has been debate about that. So, if players could play a very limited schedule, make more money, and play the majors, it will get very interesting. 

 

Heck, if top players see a player ranked lower (say 125 or 200 in the world) bringing in way more money then them by working on 8 events with 3 rounds compared to 20-30 events with 4 rounds, that will get the top players attention. 

[BenSeattle]

4 hours ago, BNGL said:

Definitely excited to see the courses, Pumpkin Ridge and The International. Trump Golf Links and Rich Harvest Farms is first rate as well. I’d assume the international venues are first rate as well!

 

With a network TV deal most unlikely, sure...you'll be able to catch all the action -- on your little computer screen as this outfit is destined to exist only in the tiny world of a YouTube streaming channel.  Enjoy the splendor!

 

[bscinstnct]

Greg Norman, Saudi Arabia-backed LIV Golf aiming for $500 million for global media rights, according to a report
 

Streaming platforms, particularly the Netflixes, the Amazons, the Apples, are truly global. That’s one path we could pursue,” said Sean Bratches, a former ESPN executive and LIV Golf’s chief commercial officer.
 

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/03/17/greg-norman-liv-golf-saudi-league-global-media-rights-report/

[CaseyC]

9 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

 

On the PGA tour there is a requirement to play a minimum of 15 events. So, 23 events for the year would be a normal schedule granted that players will legally be allowed to play on the PGA tour as well as LIV events. 

 

 

 

 

Legally allowed, but enough to earn the $ to keep your card?

[CaseyC]

9 hours ago, bobfoster said:

 Yes, would be challenged in court, but they'd probably win. 

 

If or when it gets to court, it will be interesting to see what agreements players sign to play the SGL

[Holy Moses]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

Greg Norman, Saudi Arabia-backed LIV Golf aiming for $500 million for global media rights, according to a report
 

Streaming platforms, particularly the Netflixes, the Amazons, the Apples, are truly global. That’s one path we could pursue,” said Sean Bratches, a former ESPN executive and LIV Golf’s chief commercial officer.
 

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/03/17/greg-norman-liv-golf-saudi-league-global-media-rights-report/

I aim to marry a supermodel. Greg better get some better players if he wants that much money. Kokrak and Justin Rose aren’t bringing that in.

[macnewma]

8 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

Are you an attorney that looked specifically at all the contracts between the PGA tour/players and the LIV contracts in detail? If not, that is just conjecture. From the Subpar podcast, Norman seems pretty confident that players will be able to play both even though PGA has publicly said they won't allow it. Not sure why Greg Norman and LIV think that or how they are going to make it work with players playing both tours. However, there might be some loopholes in those contract fine print that allows them or they will legally challenge the PGA tour restrictions. Also, I'm not sure if the all the majors fall under the PGA tour umbrella because there has been debate about that. So, if players could play a very limited schedule, make more money, and play the majors, it will get very interesting. 

 

Heck, if top players see a player ranked lower (say 125 or 200 in the world) bringing in way more money then them by working on 8 events with 3 rounds compared to 20-30 events with 4 rounds, that will get the top players attention. 

 

It is a question of risk for these individual players. Even if somehow Norman and SGL were to prevail in court, the current PGA Tour players that first choose to make the jump would have to take the risk of having to sue their way back onto the PGA Tour. A legal battle could take years and would kill the career of any guy ranked in the top 200 that plays PGA/DP/KFT. The risk also includes losing sponsors and potentially never playing on the tour again.

If the SGL actually holds a single tournament, it will likely only include players from the Asian Tour as it is owned by LIV. A player who is not a member of the PGA Tour could play on the SGL and not risk being banned from the PGA Tour as they have no contractual obligation to the PGA Tour. They might also be able to attract some guys like Westwood who would ride off into the sunset. BTW, the highest ranked player from the Asian Tour is Takumi Kanaya at 60th. Never heard of him.

 

The final risk is getting payment from LIV. Let's say some B level PGAT player in his mid 30s decides he is cool with all the risks because he might clear 20-40m for the first year. That would require LIV and the SGL to exist for an entire season and for the Saudis to deem it worthy of continuing. There is the chance that after 1-2 tournaments the Saudis pull the plug and tell the players to pound dirt. So this guy made $2m because he won the first event against a bunch of nobodies from the Asian tour, but now he has the ban which he was hoping LIV would fight in court. LIV no longer exists so is the player going to sue the Saudis in Saudi Arabia to get his "guaranteed" money?

 

The entire thing is a comparison of risk to reward. The PGA risk/reward calculus is well defined with virtually no risk for the top 125 guys. Every one of those guys has a sizeable retirement account and has made a minimum of a few million. Going forward those guys all have the opportunity to earn a fairly stable amount of money. Their sponsors also know they have a well defined platform with reliable viewers and well run events (btw this is really what the tour is setup for...it is the ultimate endorsement platform...better than any other sport on the planet).

 

The SGL has potentially higher reward. That is the easier part to define. The potential risks though are exceptional. We are talking the potential for career suicide.