LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[One Putter]

Anyone paying attention to the situation going on right now with F1? This is why you dont sell out to Saudi oil money.

[Golfnuck]

Lots of references here about players going to court to assert their rights to play in the LIV.

 

I think the players should think of about the "court" of public opinion.

 

IMHO any player that plays in the LIV will get roasted.

[Golfer4Life]

🤣

[jmck]

On 3/26/2022 at 11:57 AM, One Putter said:

Anyone paying attention to the situation going on right now with F1? This is why you dont sell out to Saudi oil money.

+1.

 

Whole lot of people on here acting like this Saudi money comes with no strings attached. PGA Tour money comes with a known set of strings attached—play in pro ams, glad-hand the CEOs every week, ask for a release to play in an event opposite a tour event, try your level best to never swear on a hot mic and so on. Low stakes stuff. The strings that come attached to Saudi money are…different.

 

Read between the lines here. The Saudis basically said you’ll race because we say so; nice team plane you’ve got there, it’d be a shame if something happened while you were trying to leave the country:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/60885031

 

And that’s certainly not without precedent:

 

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2020/6/15/21291869/anonymous-former-wwe-wrestler-confirms-report-plane-hostage-saudi-arabia-crown-jewel

 

Say what you will about Phil, but he certainly called a spade a spade.

[Holy Moses]

2 hours ago, Golfnuck said:

Lots of references here about players going to court to assert their rights to play in the LIV.

 

I think the players should think of about the "court" of public opinion.

 

IMHO any player that plays in the LIV will get roasted.

If you go to the LIV, why bother with the PGA Tour and the need to sue the Tour over your expected ban? You will make more money playing the SGL and  you will only have have to play a third or half schedule. The only reason to sue to PGA Tour is because you are afraid the SGL will collapse in a few years and you will be out of places to play. And if you think that’s a real possibility, that’s the risk you take. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Holy Moses

[Golfer4Life]

I still don't understand why LIV and the PGA Tour can coexist.

 

I'm talking about golf and not about the politics of the countries involved.

 

But, that's me.

[aenemated]

4 hours ago, jmck said:

+1.

 

Whole lot of people on here acting like this Saudi money comes with no strings attached. PGA Tour money comes with a known set of strings attached—play in pro ams, glad-hand the CEOs every week, ask for a release to play in an event opposite a tour event, try your level best to never swear on a hot mic and so on. Low stakes stuff. The strings that come attached to Saudi money are…different.

 

Read between the lines here. The Saudis basically said you’ll race because we say so; nice team plane you’ve got there, it’d be a shame if something happened while you were trying to leave the country:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/60885031

 

And that’s certainly not without precedent:

 

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2020/6/15/21291869/anonymous-former-wwe-wrestler-confirms-report-plane-hostage-saudi-arabia-crown-jewel

 

Say what you will about Phil, but he certainly called a spade a spade.

 

Right? Like ... what do these people think the purpose of these hundreds of millions of dollars actually is? Just a generous gift from their buddy Greg? 

 

Nah dawg; you're being bought. Literally bought; like a mega yacht or a garage full of Ferraris, you're now their property. 

 

FTA ...

 

Quote

But eventually they were convinced to go ahead and race after being given further information by bosses.

 

"Convinced," eh? That's a nice word. So is "persuaded." Or perhaps "coerced." 

[stinger_gc]

Scottie Scheffler will be taking his talents to Riyadh!

[Bad9]

18 hours ago, jmck said:

Say what you will about Phil, but he certainly called a spade a spade.

 

While trying to take as much of their money as possible and trying to recruit his peers to take their money to ensure he got it. His actions prove he didn't care about anything other than they were going to pay him.

[jmck]

1 hour ago, Bad9 said:

 

While trying to take as much of their money as possible and trying to recruit his peers to take their money to ensure he got it. His actions prove he didn't care about anything other than they were going to pay him.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Phil at all.  Just kinda wild that he's one of the very few who's spoken at all honestly about the people they're jumping in bed with here.  And of course he immediately tried walking back what he said as soon as it was in print--a man of principle as ever haha.  Dude couldn't even be honest about being honest.

 

I mean it's crazy that people are discussing this as if it's just like going to play a few events for a new tour run by a disgruntled Australian, no strings attached.  Rather than being owned part and parcel by a regime that'll crush you like an ant if you inconvenience them in any way.  It's like you can see the sportswashing working as designed, right here in this thread. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

On 3/27/2022 at 12:29 PM, jmck said:

+1.

 

Whole lot of people on here acting like this Saudi money comes with no strings attached. PGA Tour money comes with a known set of strings attached—play in pro ams, glad-hand the CEOs every week, ask for a release to play in an event opposite a tour event, try your level best to never swear on a hot mic and so on. Low stakes stuff. The strings that come attached to Saudi money are…different.

 

Read between the lines here. The Saudis basically said you’ll race because we say so; nice team plane you’ve got there, it’d be a shame if something happened while you were trying to leave the country:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/60885031

 

And that’s certainly not without precedent:

 

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2020/6/15/21291869/anonymous-former-wwe-wrestler-confirms-report-plane-hostage-saudi-arabia-crown-jewel

 

Say what you will about Phil, but he certainly called a spade a spade.

Thanks for posting this.  It's really amazing and disheartening as to how some only see $$signs while completely ignoring what the SA regime has done and continues to do.  

 

"...people were basically held hostage over a monetary dispute between Vince McMahon & Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman..."

[oikos1]

4 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Thanks for posting this.  It's really amazing and disheartening as to how some only see $$signs while completely ignoring what the SA regime has done and continues to do.  

 

"...people were basically held hostage over a monetary dispute between Vince McMahon & Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman..."

Also interesting to note that events for the WWE still pack the arenas.  You'd think the red blooded joes and janes of America would have some degree of scruples when it comes to 'merica.  🤣🤣

[jmck]

14 hours ago, oikos1 said:

Also interesting to note that events for the WWE still pack the arenas.  You'd think the red blooded joes and janes of America would have some degree of scruples when it comes to 'merica.  🤣🤣

Wrestling is not my cup of tea--like, at all--but in terms of revenue they bring in more or less the same amount as the PGA Tour.  And F1 is about the size of the Tour and WWE combined.  

 

The big name team owners in F1 could buy and sell Vince McMahon many times over, and McMahon could buy and sell someone like Phil or Greg Norman many times over, to say nothing of the Jason Kokraks of the Tour.  And the Saudis had no problem putting a gun to the head of McMahon and F1 team owners to get what they wanted.  Just total impunity on a level that's hard to comprehend.  

Edited March 29, 2022 by jmck

[tacklingdummy]

On 3/27/2022 at 10:14 AM, Golfer4Life said:

I still don't understand why LIV and the PGA Tour can coexist.

 

I'm talking about golf and not about the politics of the countries involved.

 

But, that's me.

 

LIV is only 4 events in the US (8 events total). The PGA tour has 48 yearly events not to mention the Korn Ferry and Champions tour events. Not sure why the PGA tour is so threatened by LIV and threatened by players playing so few events. 

[tacklingdummy]

The Ladies European Tour just played a tournament in Saudi Arabia (which I don't have an issue with), but where is the outrage by folks outraged by men playing in Saudi tournaments? The outrage seems to be picked and chosen depending on the situation or group. If it is truly about human rights issues like the distractors say,  then the outrage would apply to all groups the same. Just pointing out the contradictions and hypocrisies. 😜

[jmck]

1 hour ago, tacklingdummy said:

The Ladies European Tour just played a tournament in Saudi Arabia (which I don't have an issue with), but where is the outrage by folks outraged by men playing in Saudi tournaments? The outrage seems to be picked and chosen depending on the situation or group. If it is truly about human rights issues like the distractors say,  then the outrage would apply to all groups the same. Just pointing out the contradictions and hypocrisies. 😜

I’m going to describe two things to you. You tell me if they’re the same or different.

 

A sports tour, holding an event, in a country.

 

A sports tour, owned by a country.

[Holy Moses]

4 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

LIV is only 4 events in the US (8 events total). The PGA tour has 48 yearly events not to mention the Korn Ferry and Champions tour events. Not sure why the PGA tour is so threatened by LIV and threatened by players playing so few events. 

Because they plan on growing to a full schedule

[tacklingdummy]

10 hours ago, jmck said:

I’m going to describe two things to you. You tell me if they’re the same or different.

 

A sports tour, holding an event, in a country.

 

A sports tour, owned by a country.

 

Both are similar because they are business ventures that are still both working with the Saudi government. The Saudis own and control everything in Saudi Arabia, so any big scale event or business venture has to go through the Saudi government. Also, the offended were also offended by the men players going to the Saudi International.  If it was a truly about a human right issue, the offended would be offended by the ladies playing the event and calling for the Ladies European Tour to hold their event in another country just like the men at the Saudi International. 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by tacklingdummy

[golfandfishing]

19 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

LIV is only 4 events in the US (8 events total). The PGA tour has 48 yearly events not to mention the Korn Ferry and Champions tour events. Not sure why the PGA tour is so threatened by LIV and threatened by players playing so few events. 

Well, for starters they basically attacked the tour and positioned themselves as some sort of Robin Hood coming to deliver the players from all evil that is the pga tour. 
 

Second - the limited schedule and no requirement to join a “LIV Tour” is new information and likely the result of the lack of support. 
 

If they had started as just 8 stand alone events with no tour membership sort of deal this probably would not suffered such a counter attack from the pga and euro tours and the players. 8 events is Plan B. Or C. Maybe even M?

[ChipStrokes]

14 minutes ago, golfandfishing said:

Well, for starters they basically attacked the tour and positioned themselves as some sort of Robin Hood coming to deliver the players from all evil that is the pga tour. 
 

Second - the limited schedule and no requirement to join a “LIV Tour” is new information and likely the result of the lack of support. 
 

If they had started as just 8 stand alone events with no tour membership sort of deal this probably would not suffered such a counter attack from the pga and euro tours and the players. 8 events is Plan B. Or C. Maybe even M?

i think their plan A had a fighting chance to achieve what they originally wanted to until Phil got verbal diarrhea 

 

i still think if they want to compete with the PGA tour, they need to be finding a way to sign the tour's up and coming talent before they ever hit the PGA tour.  

[bscinstnct]

Ahhh the Masters. GNs favorite time of year. And with the amazingly successful launch of the Saudi Arabian golf league, doubly so!

 

Isn’t that right Greg?

 

 

[Golfnuck]

20 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

LIV is only 4 events in the US (8 events total). The PGA tour has 48 yearly events not to mention the Korn Ferry and Champions tour events. Not sure why the PGA tour is so threatened by LIV and threatened by players playing so few events. 

 

IMHO it is because the PGA has 48 events that they have an issue with the LIV.

 

The PGA has to find sponsorship for all 48 events and the majority of those events are not high enough profile without having a few top 10 golfer show up.

 

Now imagine if those top 10 golfers can fill their boots playing the 4 LIV cash give away events (remember no cuts, appears fees etc) they could then just play in a few of the top PGA events and the majors and call it a year.

 

I still do not understand why the PGA tour players feel they are somehow beholden to the executives of the PGA Tour.  Those executives actually work for them.  The players are the bosses.

 

The executives have a fiduciary duty to protect the assets of the PGA Tour for its owners who are the players and retired players.  Need to remember that a big chuck of the assets are needed to fund the massive pension obligations of all the retired players.

 

If any player feels they do not want to comply within the rules of the PGA Tour then they are free to quit and play in what ever tournament that will allow them in.  Obviously some will then state it is their constitutional right to play in a PGA Tour event without being in the PGA Tour but why?  Are we now going to have that player sue the Augusta National Country Club because they don't get invited to play in the Masters ......  like to see that goes.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Golfnuck

[tacklingdummy]

1 hour ago, golfandfishing said:

Well, for starters they basically attacked the tour and positioned themselves as some sort of Robin Hood coming to deliver the players from all evil that is the pga tour. 
 

Second - the limited schedule and no requirement to join a “LIV Tour” is new information and likely the result of the lack of support. 
 

If they had started as just 8 stand alone events with no tour membership sort of deal this probably would not suffered such a counter attack from the pga and euro tours and the players. 8 events is Plan B. Or C. Maybe even M?

 

Norman's goal with LIV has been to give players more opportunity and more freedom for earning power.  Norman knows all too well what kind of challenges some of the players deal with. He is not a bureaucrat that hasn't been a touring pro. Norman himself has said numerous times that LIV is a startup and a beta program to test. 

 

I doubt there is lack of support with the kind of money they have available for players. They may not get the top guys on PGA tour, but there will be some world class players for sure. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by tacklingdummy

[Golfnuck]

10 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

Norman's goal with LIV has been to give players more opportunity and more freedom for earning power.  Norman knows all too well what kind of challenges some of the players deal with. He is not a bureaucrat that hasn't been a touring pro. Norman himself has said numerous times that LIV is a startup and a beta program to test. 

 

I doubt there is lack of support with the kind of money they have available for players. They may not get the top guys on PGA tour, but there will be some world class players for sure. 

 

 

 

Norman has had a grudge with the PGA Tour since the 1990s with his proposal for the World Golf Tour which was shot down by the PGA Tour ... well actually by Arnold Palmer.

 

Now he is willing to go join the devil in order to extract his revenge.

 

Fortunately for Norman Tiger is not carrying the same weight as Arnold did back in 1990 or else Tiger could single handedly shut down the LIV as well.

[doc52]

Played Pumpkin Ridge yesterday, tee boxes are being rebuilt for the upcoming event. 

 

Interestingly enough the routing will combine the private and public side taking 12 holes from the public and 6 from the private.

[Holy Moses]

On 3/24/2022 at 12:56 PM, Holy Moses said:

Anyone want to play?

 

 

 

LIV Golf emailed PGA Tour players from the public link the PGA Tour gives out for players to receive fan mail. Ahahahaha! 

[Frankensteins Monster]

Gary Player is a loser. 

[bscinstnct]

EXCLUSIVE: The Saudi-backed golf series 'have signed up two former world No1 players and Ryder Cup heroes' ahead of its launch in England this summer

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-10703301/amp/The-Saudi-backed-golf-series-signed-two-former-world-No1-players-Ryder-Cup-heroes.html

 

[Frankensteins Monster]

2 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

EXCLUSIVE: The Saudi-backed golf series 'have signed up two former world No1 players and Ryder Cup heroes' ahead of its launch in England this summer

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-10703301/amp/The-Saudi-backed-golf-series-signed-two-former-world-No1-players-Ryder-Cup-heroes.html

 

Luke Donald and Westy. 

[Loki]

The cream of junior golfers. Once they get their check they will never been seen from again in the world of golf because they won't be able to play a the level required on the PGA Tour. Much like in the NBA where, in years past, once you signed with an agent, either you played in the NBA or were never seen again. A lot of careers ruined.

 

Great plan.