PGATSS Ruined My Ventus Black

[FourteenBirds]

45.5” driver, brought it to PGA Tour Superstore to get it tipped to 44.5”. Just picked it up and it measures between 44”-44.25”. As you all know, this 1/4in is a bigger deal coming off the tip than it would’ve been coming off the butt end. I had been going back and forth b/t tipping 1/2” and 1”, so 1 and 1/4” is just BAD. $360 Ventus Black. 
 

Has this happened to anyone else w/ PGATSS? What do I do? Can I get a replacement from them? If I take it to a reputable club builder, is there a way to extend it? What would you do if you were in my shoes, besides never trusting PGATSS ever again?

Edited June 28, 2022 by FourteenBirds

[Pastit]

4 minutes ago, FourteenBirds said:

45.5” driver, brought it to PGA Tour Superstore to get it tipped to 44.5”. Just picked it up and it measures between 44”-44.25”. As you all know, this 1/4in is a bigger deal coming off the tip than it would’ve been coming off the butt end. I had been going back and forth b/t tipping 1/2” and 1”, so 1 and 1/4” is just BAD. $360 Ventus Black. 
 

Has this happened to anyone else w/ PGATSS? What do I do? Can I get a replacement from them? If I take it to a reputable club builder, is there a way to extend it? What would you do if you were in my shoes, besides never trusting PGATSS ever again?

How can it measure between those dimensions unless you measure it alternatively in a butcher’s freezer and a baker’s oven ? 
 

if it’s a quarter inch short, I doubt whether it matters which end was trimmed. But you might be able to argue the point. 

[toc]

1 minute ago, Pastit said:

How can it measure between those dimensions unless you measure it alternatively in a butcher’s freezer and a baker’s oven ? 
 

if it’s a quarter inch short, I doubt whether it matters which end was trimmed. But you might be able to argue the point. 

Probably means the measurement falls between those two numbers, not that the measurement is changing…

 

Im definitely in the “it probably won’t matter” camp on these types of issues, but you should expect a simple job to be completed correctly especially on such an expensive shaft.  

OP:

On the subject of it being a simple job, why didn’t you just cut the inch off yourself?

[FourteenBirds]

Why I didn’t do it myself? In a word: inexperience. I get that it’s a small issue, but it’s enough for me to resolve to do this stuff myself going forward. I spend too long reading about club building on forums like this one to not just do it myself. Really disappointed in this particular job but am also excited to start handling this stuff myself. Btw yeah the static measurement is now between 44 inches and 44 1/4 inches. Idk, maybe I could’ve just said 44 1/8. 

[phizzy30]

Tough call here.  You can try to argue that their work was shoddy/done incorrectly and demand a replacement but I highly doubt PGASS will comply.  1/4" off the tip isn't going to dramatically affect launch or spin. 

[evoviiiyou]

I would call their customer service number and explain you situation and ask for a higher up to make a decision of making it right.  Im sure this would be your best bet rather than simply eating it or going into the store which is bound by the corporate protocols. Good luck and I am sorry to hear this OP...sucks!

[Cellis]

42 minutes ago, FourteenBirds said:

45.5” driver, brought it to PGA Tour Superstore to get it tipped to 44.5”. Just picked it up and it measures between 44”-44.25”. As you all know, this 1/4in is a bigger deal coming off the tip than it would’ve been coming off the butt end. I had been going back and forth b/t tipping 1/2” and 1”, so 1 and 1/4” is just BAD. $360 Ventus Black. 
 

Has this happened to anyone else w/ PGATSS? What do I do? Can I get a replacement from them? If I take it to a reputable club builder, is there a way to extend it? What would you do if you were in my shoes, besides never trusting PGATSS ever again?

Can you take a photo of your tip? I'm curious to see the distance from the adapter to the Velecore "E'.

[Golfrnut]

1/4” can be due to measuring equipment used.  
 

if you are using a club ruler, it shouldnt really fall between 44-44.25, it should be a specific value. If you are using some sort of measurement that introduces variances in the measurement, then that’s a problem too. 

[NAM2212]

I took 2 brand new wedges in to PGASS to be cut to a certain length. They cut the 54 degree shorter then the 58 degree. I asked them to make it right and they cut the 58 degree even shorter  as a way to fix. Wedges ended up way too short. Called corporate and they had the GM of the store call me. He was unable to source the same shafts but made it right in the end. 

[FourteenBirds]

@Cellis here’s a picture. 
 

@Golfrnut the guy measured it on a club ruler and said it was between those two measurements 

[FourteenBirds]

@Cellis golf ball included for scale

[dre72]

What’s is the EXACT measurement from the e in velocore to the end of the shaft?   Once you have that measurement you can establish exactly how much it was tipped.   If you wanted it tipped 1 inch and they went 1.5 that is a pretty big difference.  

[Cellis]

Just now, FourteenBirds said:

@Cellis golf ball included for scale

Gotcha, I have one being shipped to me and the guy couldn’t tell me the exact tipping and I figured it was 1.25”, and yours looks exactly the same. That’s unfortunate and a bad mess up since you didn’t want that. Have you tried hitting it at all yet? I do agree they owe you another shaft though. 

[FourteenBirds]

[third-times-a-charm]

Any tipping under .5" is just a rounding error. Hell even .5" doesnt really do anything. Maybe .1-.2* of launch and 50-75 RPM spin difference - on a robot - so no issue on a human. I see shafts tip trimmed 1/8-1/4" to remove hosel prep and etc when moving to smaller adapters. No issue here regardless of what shaft it is.

 

Now, when you send a shaft to someone for work - especially a premium shaft like a Ventus - the customer should be getting what they asked for. If you ask for 1" you get 1", not "somewhere around one inch". So out of sheer principle it's incorrect.

 

Given both my opinions above its up to you on whether it's worth it to pursue an issue with PGATSS about it and what your personal time is worth in doing so.

 

Yes, you can extend the shaft BOTH ways 1/4" to bring it back toy our asking spec. 

 

It's slightly unorthodox, but you CAN add a 1/4" spacer like a 1/4" piece of an old .335 shaft and put it down the driver adapter before re-epoxying the Ventus back in and itll push it back up and the remaining 1-1 1/8" of seated area is still just fine and secure. BUT since it's already been glued in, you're going to see 1/4" of hosel prep/epoxy on the tip of your shaft now. 

 

You can also deal w/ the extra tip trim and extend the butt end 1/4". Also a non-issue here that will not effect anything meaningful besides OAL.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by third-times-a-charm

[shellbmb]

I don't know how far shafts fit into a Cobra adapter, but it looks like the shaft has been tipped 3/4"-1" from stock.  Probably closer to 1" as I assume that adapter has to allow for some screw depth.  

 

But like @Golfrnut mentioned above, you can have variations simply due to what is being used to measure.  My Mitchell board at home measures differently than the ruler up at Golf Galaxy they use for club building.  It's about a 1/4" difference.  

 

Did you tell them to tip it 1"?  Or did you tell them to make it play 44.5" by tipping it?  Those two requests could result in different length clubs.  

[Golfrnut]

54 minutes ago, FourteenBirds said:

@Cellis here’s a picture. 
 

@Golfrnut the guy measured it on a club ruler and said it was between those two measurements 

 

If that’s the case, I would surely never go there again. Giving you a ‘between x and y measurement’ that’s a quarter inch apart means they really have no intent on accuracy.  ‘Good enough’ is not a quarter inch tolerance IMO. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Golfrnut

[JCAG]

2 hours ago, FourteenBirds said:

45.5” driver, brought it to PGA Tour Superstore to get it tipped to 44.5”. Just picked it up and it measures between 44”-44.25”. As you all know, this 1/4in is a bigger deal coming off the tip than it would’ve been coming off the butt end. I had been going back and forth b/t tipping 1/2” and 1”, so 1 and 1/4” is just BAD. $360 Ventus Black. 
 

Has this happened to anyone else w/ PGATSS? What do I do? Can I get a replacement from them? If I take it to a reputable club builder, is there a way to extend it? What would you do if you were in my shoes, besides never trusting PGATSS ever again?

Did you ask them to make it 44.5 or did you ask them to trim one inch off the tip. I am smelling a measuring method difference.

 

[nova6868]

Measuring method/tool can easily account for 1/4" in either direction. This is why I work on my clubs myself, I know what length I want on my Mitchell ruler and I can do it exactly how I want. Sorry this happened to you but it's just something that's going to happen when you're using different shops that use different tools. 

 

 

[FourteenBirds]

My goal going in: tip the shaft whatever length (knowing I wasn’t too far away) to get it to 44.5”. 
 

They measured it at 45.5”, so I asked them to tip 1”, and their build sheet read: tip 1”, final playing length 44.5”. 
 

The club was measured on their same ruler before and after the “one inch tipping”. Their ruler said 45.5” before the “one inch tipping” and it says between 44 and 441/4 after the “one inch tipping” 

[vietnameeh]

3 minutes ago, FourteenBirds said:

My goal going in: tip the shaft whatever length (knowing I wasn’t too far away) to get it to 44.5”. 
 

They measured it at 45.5”, so I asked them to tip 1”, and their build sheet read: tip 1”, final playing length 44.5”. 
 

The club was measured on their same ruler before and after the “one inch tipping”. Their ruler said 45.5” before the “one inch tipping” and it says between 44 and 441/4 after the “one inch tipping” 

 If its on the buildsheet and you saw on their ruler thats its not what you asked for I would go back and see what can be done.

 

1/4" won't hurt you... but i can understand that it can bug a lot people if its not exact. Im just confused how its 45.5 before then you provide a range for the after. I would go back and show them that its off by having them measure to get the exact finish measure then show the build sheet.

[FourteenBirds]

I’m providing a range for the after because the guy measured it at 44” and then I asked him to look at it again to be sure and he then said it was a little over 44” but not quite 44 and 1/4

[nikeblades00]

I agree it probably won't make a huge difference but every 1/4th inch counts on a shaft. You paid them for a specific service and they didn't fulfill your request.

Now really comes down to how much you care and how much time you have. I bet this could be pushed down the proper channels of PGASS and eventually it could be replaced. Could be several phone calls and emails. Let them know you have a post on the biggest golf forum about the stores inept club work.

[skujan57]

All they had to do was measure 1" and lop that off the tip. Seems easy. Maybe ask them for the tip that was cut off if they still have it?

Edited June 28, 2022 by skujan57

[FourteenBirds]

I care a lot about getting it right, and I reached out to them. Here’s the response I got: 
 

Hello Mr FourteenBirds. Sorry for any inconvenience. I spoke with our tech that did the work and correct, you did ask your shaft to be tipped which resulted in your shaft being shorter. When it comes to golf tipping is a very serious game changer because it affects ball flight. What it looks like is we failed to finish it to your desired length and we are ready to add the extension and do the work why you wait so you are no longer inconvenienced. Please respond to this e-mail with any questions or concerns. Thank you for being a valued customer and we apologize for your inconvenience.

 

 

*If all they did was take 1” off the tip (as per the build sheet!!), and it started at 45.5”, how could it be below 44.5”?? In other words, if it’s below 44.5”, they tipped it more than 1”* 

 

My response: 

Man this is not an “inconvenience”. This is a $360 shaft that has been deformed. As you’ve said, tipping is a “game changer”, and to get it wrong is indeed “very serious”. I am not interested in a band-aid extension. I’m looking for you to make this right. I would like a refund, and would like to file a claim for a replacement shaft.

 

PGASS:
Hello. We will replace the shaft but understand that when you asked for your shaft to be tipped, that takes precedence over length which is corrected with an extension because of how you are requesting your club to play.  We will get the shaft ordered and will keep you updated when the shafts arrives.

 

????

 

If the 1” tipping had taken precedence like he’s saying, the club would measure 44.5” right now! The build sheet reads ** 1” tipping, 44.5” playing length **.

 

I sure WISH the 1” tipping had taken precedence, because if it had, my 45.5” driver would now be 44.5”

Edited June 28, 2022 by FourteenBirds

[LUMA]

All I have is a couple pennies to throw in on this, but every time I have dealt with anything custom, special, etc form PGASS, they have either messed up or been completely wrong or incompetent. Edwin Watts has been a close second. If you aren't sure about what I am asking, don't act like you have the answer because I clearly know what you just said is BS.

 

I hate dealing with them unless it's something off the rack that doesn't need adjusting or ordering. I'll pick up shirts, hats and balls from them when it's convenient, that's about it.

[Valtiel]

4 hours ago, Cellis said:

Can you take a photo of your tip?

[Valtiel]

41 minutes ago, FourteenBirds said:

PGASS:
Hello. We will replace the shaft but understand that when you asked for your shaft to be tipped, that takes precedence over length which is corrected with an extension because of how you are requesting your club to play.  We will get the shaft ordered and will keep you updated when the shafts arrives.

This part makes it sound like they didn't or don't understand that your tipping request AND the playing length change were the same, and that they thought the amount you wanted it tipped would result in a different playing length than you requested. Either wires are crossed on their end OR they are trying to explain away a mistake. You can even remove the whole conversation about the importance of tipping from the equation and simply state "The club was 45.5" and I wanted it shortened to 44.5" via tipping, it is now less than 44.25" which means it was either tipped more than an inch OR someone also removed length from the handle, both of which are unacceptable". Thankfully they said they'll replace it, but I certainly wouldn't trust them to do the rest of the work. 

[hurley999s]

At this rate, I wouldn’t be surprised if they even try to replace it with a “made for” Ventus and then say “This is a confirmed authentic Ventus shaft from Fujikura. We now consider this matter closed” 

[FourteenBirds]

@Valtiel completely correct. I could’ve either said hey tip this until it’s 44.5” and they would’ve taken an inch off to accomplish that. OR I could’ve said tip this 1”, and if they did that it would measure 44.5” on the same ruler that initially measured 45.5”. 
 

No matter what, we have more than 1” of difference from pre-build to post-build. Like you said, they either over-tipped or decided to take some off the butt end of their own accord. 
 

It’s wrong. 
 

Edit: I also see what you’re saying and I’m afraid I didn’t make my point to them clear. I should have just said hey- 45.5” to start - requested an inch of tipping - more than an inch was cut off. 
 

@hurley999s that would be completely unacceptable! Though when I specified that my shaft is the VeloCore version, they stopped replying to me.

 

I should add, I’m 100% open to this thread being about how PGASS ultimately did the right thing, and I’m keeping my fingers crossed that that’s the way this goes. I will definitely follow up here and create a new post as well to make it clear that they did the right thing if that happens. If they try to pass off a made-for shaft as a premium Ventus with VeloCore, that will be extremely disappointing, and anyone reading this would of course be well advised to steer well clear of their services. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by FourteenBirds