Patrick Reed at it again (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***)

[chigolfer1]

3 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

All I can say is it pretty hard to know exactly where a ball lands when you on the tee.  So it isn't surprising they were looking at the wrong tree. If you call over an official and they make a ruling really not much more to it.  I don't think a ruling official is going to claim to a player a ball isn't his ball.  If there not looking at video pretty hard to prove. 

 

At the end of the day it still cost him a stroke to drop.  one can argue where he was suppose to drop but that really is up to the official on the course. You can't go back and change what the official said. 

 

Of course it obvious that Patrick Reed is looking to bend the rules in his favor.  He continues with lousy choices and has no care for optics  off the course.  No One likes him and this just adds another layer to that.

 

But at the end of the day you can't go back and change anything.  The argument can make that the officials may need to be more careful and maybe have video replay to help them.

 

Say what you will about the incident but this wasn't a bend the rules situation.  He's either flat out lying about being able to identify his ball or he was mistaken.  Neither is really bending the rules.  One is blatantly cheating and the other is an innocent mistake.  Given his history...

[vitesse10]

It would be amazing if there was someone with access to the course to go up those palm trees with a camera and find the 2 balls in question.

[Copacetic]

22 hours ago, NMBob said:

  Its apparently a blind t-shot to those trees, so imagine if PR had argued with 2 referees and multiple marshals, that they were all wrong... and started looking for his ball in a different tree...but which was actually the right tree, what chaos would have ensued?

 

2 referees and how many marshals all apparently wrong in what they are telling the player and other rules official, should that be of concern?

 

 

I’d be very concerned. How much did they bet each other that if we pick any tree or random bush except the right one that Reed will identify his ball in it for sure? Making a running joke of Reed is all well and good but what about the children?! Won’t somebody think of the children?

[me05501]

3 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

This is exactly why - prior to them closing this issue - the official told PR you have to be 100% sure, you cant be kind of sure. I'd be fine if he had said at that point yeah I'm pretty sure but you know, its pretty high up there and I cant be sure. But he didnt - he lied, he wasnt 100% sure because as we know, that wasnt his ball.

 

I cant believe people are still trying to make this OK or to somehow blame the officials. Honestly that may be a new low for me.

 

The only thing the official could/should have done would be to have PR provide another ball from his bag with markings to confirm they're the same. Of course a lot of these guys don't mark a ball until they put it in play so even that wouldn't be fool proof. 

[mkidding]

Honestly if it's good for the 3 officials why do people still debate.

 

But even more honestly - can someone just please work with the golf course, go retrieve the ball-in-doubt, and prove what's going on? If I were LIV and I'm confident with Reed, I would do it. If I were PGA and I'm doubting Reed, I would also do it to prove the fact and put the tomb stone on.

 

Anyone?

[Copacetic]

14 minutes ago, mkidding said:

Honestly if it's good for the 3 officials why do people still debate.

 

But even more honestly - can someone just please work with the golf course, go retrieve the ball-in-doubt, and prove what's going on? If I were LIV and I'm confident with Reed, I would do it. If I were PGA and I'm doubting Reed, I would also do it to prove the fact and put the tomb stone on.

 

Anyone?

It wasn’t ‘good’ with the officials. They are bound by the rules and believing the player when he says that’s his ball and his markings in the wrong tree. They have no way to prove he is wrong, we all know Reed will have unmarked balls in his bag. Or say he marked this one different but is 100% sure that’s his ball in the wrong tree. Their job isn’t to prove a player is lying, it’s to make sure they are following the rules based on honour. The rules don’t really allow for players like Reed who blatantly cheat and when referees are finally free of them who then sue to get back on the tour. 

[dcmidnight]

It was the 17th hole, I'd say theres a....60% chance at least that he has a marked up ball in his bag that he took out of play at some point for a newer one. And thats assuming he doesn't mark them up beforehand.

[johnseg]

6 hours ago, Pastit said:

I think you miss the point: the rules are there for certainty, if a ball cannot be positively ID’d then it’s a lost ball. If there is doubt which tree the ball entered then it’s QED. 
 

Other posters make the point that the ET is sloppy generally in these matters and, particularly, why not have the trees cleaned out daily. After all, there’s only a couple of million bucks at stake !

 

As to using a specific mark in the ball at all times, that is also unreliable hence my use of the date and ball number of the in comps.

This is a case where you clearly have trees in play that catch balls as there were many up there. The tournament should have a local rule in place for the tournament. A ball is those trees results in...

Edited January 31, 2023 by johnseg
spelling

[cardoustie]

Patrick Reed has some wires crossed in his brain

if he thinks he can bend the rules he does it, honesty isn’t an option for him because his team thinks the “world is out to get him”

this clown cleared troughs behind balls in traps, his character is no longer in question

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

3 hours ago, chigolfer1 said:

 

Say what you will about the incident but this wasn't a bend the rules situation.  He's either flat out lying about being able to identify his ball or he was mistaken.  Neither is really bending the rules.  One is blatantly cheating and the other is an innocent mistake.  Given his history...

 

Exactly. And as it relates to the lawsuits he's filed, this is why you can't sue someone for calling you a cheater. 

 

If someone went up in that tree, didn't find Patrick's ball, and then went in the other tree, and found Patrick's ball, it wouldn't prove he was cheating. It would prove he was wrong. Because cheating requires intent, and one can be wrong without intent.

 

By definition, defamation deals in matters of fact. Whether Reed was trying to improve his lie in that waste area, or whether he innocently dragged sand back from behind his ball without realizing it, is not a question of fact. It's a question of intent. Video proved he did it, but it's an opinion-based statement from an outsider to call him a cheater for doing it. Because you can't prove intent. 

[hammergolf]

The guy is a known cheater and thief. (Hopefully he doesn’t sue me too for saying that) It’s to the point now where he needs an observer following him every round and watching every shot to protect the field. I looked at the video again and it seems that his ball wasn’t even in the tree he looked in. It would be very interesting for staff on the course to go into all three trees and remove the golf balls from each and keep them separate. Then ask Reed to identify his ball and confirm it was the tree they were looking at. By looking at the video this seems to be another example on the long list of his cheating escapades.

Edited January 31, 2023 by hammergolf

[hammergolf]

2 hours ago, Copacetic said:

It wasn’t ‘good’ with the officials. They are bound by the rules and believing the player when he says that’s his ball and his markings in the wrong tree. They have no way to prove he is wrong, we all know Reed will have unmarked balls in his bag. Or say he marked this one different but is 100% sure that’s his ball in the wrong tree. Their job isn’t to prove a player is lying, it’s to make sure they are following the rules based on honour. The rules don’t really allow for players like Reed who blatantly cheat and when referees are finally free of them who then sue to get back on the tour. 

I wish the course would retrieve all the balls from each tree and denote which tree they were in. Then ask Reed to identify his ball. Looking at video, it is not possible that his ball was in the tree they were looking. Guy is a known cheat with ZERO integrity. He needs an observer watching his every movement to help protect the field.

Edited January 31, 2023 by hammergolf

[Pastit]

18 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Exactly. And as it relates to the lawsuits he's filed, this is why you can't sue someone for calling you a cheater. 

 

If someone went up in that tree, didn't find Patrick's ball, and then went in the other tree, and found Patrick's ball, it wouldn't prove he was cheating. It would prove he was wrong. Because cheating requires intent, and one can be wrong without intent.

 

By definition, defamation deals in matters of fact. Whether Reed was trying to improve his lie in that waste area, or whether he innocently dragged sand back from behind his ball without realizing it, is not a question of fact. It's a question of intent. Video proved he did it, but it's an opinion-based statement from an outsider to call him a cheater for doing it. Because you can't prove intent. 

There is bitter reaction to PR’s behaviour I guess because most of WRX members apply honour to their game. But there is joint blame here IMO because our rulers do not apply the strict letter of golf rules. 
 

No golfer should be claiming without a special mark of the day. Courses are littered with balls with general marks which could have been lost days or weeks earlier. It’s a shambles IMO.

[Stevens24]

Make him play a Srixon multi color ball. No confusion then

[Copacetic]

Love his statement that it’s the marshals fault for giving him the wrong tree,  if only they had told me the right tree then when I lied and said I could 100% identify my ball in that one, it wouldn’t be clearly untrue. 
 

also now basically denying he 100% identified his ball, only identified his ‘distinctive’ black line on a ball. 
 

let’s get back to golf people, on LIV where no one will be watching and catching this stuff. 

[Emmett]

I think it is normal for each group to share what ball they are playing, what number, and how they mark it. Done so want hit wrong ball in fairway or rough. Have the others in the group been asked if that was done?

[Titleist99]

Why are people trashing PReed's character and honesty........There's a .001% chance that his tee shot hit the first tree and bounced in the third, right!?!    LOL!

[Titleist99]

4 minutes ago, Emmett said:

I think it is normal for each group to share what ball they are playing, what number, and how they mark it. Done so want hit wrong ball in fairway or rough. Have the others in the group been asked if that was done?

Yes, someone asked Matt Wallace.

[1t2golf]

Just now, Titleist99 said:

Yes, someone asked Matt Wallace.

 

https://www.golfmagic.com/dp-world-tour/tree-gate-takes-explosive-twist-comment-patrick-reeds-playing-partner

 

[Holy Moses]

12 minutes ago, 1t2golf said:

 

https://www.golfmagic.com/dp-world-tour/tree-gate-takes-explosive-twist-comment-patrick-reeds-playing-partner

 

That doesn’t really contradict anything Reed said

[Dutch1008]

22 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Why are people trashing PReed's character and honesty........There's a .001% chance that his tee shot hit the first tree and bounced in the third, right!?!    LOL!

[IndyArcher]

I guess the whole things makes me chuckle a bit. Everyone was applauding when Rory didn't give Reed the time of day during 'tee gate' and people used Rory's comments as evidence of Reed's wrongdoing. Now when it comes to 'tree gate', Rory gives Reed the benefit of the doubt and says it's no big deal, but apparently Rory doesn't know what he's talking about now. 

 

I guess it's the internet, so we blow everything out of proportion. I think Reed is a bit of a pompous butt; however, if the guy with the greatest reason to roast him says, 'no big deal', then I'm inclined to say no big deal. 

 

But again, it's the internet, so carry on like this is a major life issue... 

[Wasted_Talent]

7 minutes ago, IndyArcher said:

I guess the whole things makes me chuckle a bit. Everyone was applauding when Rory didn't give Reed the time of day during 'tee gate' and people used Rory's comments as evidence of Reed's wrongdoing. Now when it comes to 'tree gate', Rory gives Reed the benefit of the doubt and says it's no big deal, but apparently Rory doesn't know what he's talking about now. 

 

I guess it's the internet, so we blow everything out of proportion. I think Reed is a bit of a pompous butt; however, if the guy with the greatest reason to roast him says, 'no big deal', then I'm inclined to say no big deal. 

 

But again, it's the internet, so carry on like this is a major life issue... 

 

Maybe the guy that can roast him doesn't see the need.  Take the high road and let everyone else roast him.  It isn't like Reed is in anyway worthy of being considered a rival for Rory. Rory would be best suited to blow it off.  

[Dutch1008]

3 minutes ago, IndyArcher said:

I guess the whole things makes me chuckle a bit. Everyone was applauding when Rory didn't give Reed the time of day during 'tee gate' and people used Rory's comments as evidence of Reed's wrongdoing. Now when it comes to 'tree gate', Rory gives Reed the benefit of the doubt and says it's no big deal, but apparently Rory doesn't know what he's talking about now. 

 

I guess it's the internet, so we blow everything out of proportion. I think Reed is a bit of a pompous butt; however, if the guy with the greatest reason to roast him says, 'no big deal', then I'm inclined to say no big deal. 

 

But again, it's the internet, so carry on like this is a major life issue... 

We have no context for Rory's quote. Did it come immediately after round 3 or had Rory seen the video proving that Reed identified a random ball in the wrong tree? Or does Rory not care because he still won the tournament and doesn't want to get dragged into the drama? 

 

Regardless of Rory's thoughts, this isn't hard...

 

Official - Patrick, we think your ball ended up in this tree, can you identify it? Here are some handy binoculars. 

PR - Thanks, I think I see my ball, it's that ProV1 with a black line

Official - Are you 100% sure?

PR - Well no, there are a dozen balls lodged up there, ProV1's are incredible popular, and a great many people mark their ball with a black line to help putting alignment. Without a freaking ladder or a drone, I can't be 100% sure. 

Official - Sorry hoss, that's stroke and distance. You're a man of integrity and may the golf gods smile upon you. 

 

Ol' Patrick went a different direction.  

[jjr]

36 minutes ago, IndyArcher said:

I guess the whole things makes me chuckle a bit. Everyone was applauding when Rory didn't give Reed the time of day during 'tee gate' and people used Rory's comments as evidence of Reed's wrongdoing. Now when it comes to 'tree gate', Rory gives Reed the benefit of the doubt and says it's no big deal, but apparently Rory doesn't know what he's talking about now. 

 

I guess it's the internet, so we blow everything out of proportion. I think Reed is a bit of a pompous butt; however, if the guy with the greatest reason to roast him says, 'no big deal', then I'm inclined to say no big deal. 

 

But again, it's the internet, so carry on like this is a major life issue... 

I completely agree, I'm shocked at myself for coming back to thread to see everyone still debating, by the way has anyone provided proof the ball he identifed was in the wrong tree?

If Rory doesn't care why does everyone else?

 

Rory's quote came from GD yesterday

Edited February 1, 2023 by jjr

[hammergolf]

7 hours ago, Copacetic said:

I’d be very concerned. How much did they bet each other that if we pick any tree or random bush except the right one that Reed will identify his ball in it for sure? Making a running joke of Reed is all well and good but what about the children?! Won’t somebody think of the children?

They should do The Goldfinger James Bond  trick next time he hits it in the rough…. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by hammergolf

[hammergolf]

9 minutes ago, jjr said:

I completely agree, I'm shocked at myself for coming back to thread to see everyone still debating, by the way has anyone provided proof the ball he identifed was in the wrong tree?

If Rory doesn't care why does everyone else?

 

Rory's quote came from GD yesterday

If I was the 3rd place finisher and it cost me €500k I would damn sure care! Reed stole almost €1,000,000 by cheating.

Edited February 1, 2023 by hammergolf

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, Holy Moses said:

That doesn’t really contradict anything Reed said

 

He let the official's comment about the arrow being his stand uncorrected when he knew it wasn't an arrow he drew on the ball.  Reed said he draws a line and stops before the arrow (presumably the Titleist arrow), at some point the ref is seeing and talking about an arrow drawn on the ball he sees (Reed doesn't draw an arrow) and went from there.  Reed knew he was getting away with something.  And shots of his ball in the last round show no such distinctive mark stopping at any arrow drawn by him or otherwise.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Hawkeye77

[aus10KC]

There was no doubt a ball went into a tree, video evidence shows it went into a specific tree but in real time with the naked eye from a distance it is hard to discern which tree. It's plausible that a pro v1 with a black line could be seen in each tree. Can you see both the number, red dot and black line with it lodged in a tree? Not all those marking will be visible. Patrick probably saw enough knowing his ball was in a tree to say yeah that is my ball.

 

Not a PR fan at all and root against him...but I think this is blown out of proportion. If the officials told him the correct tree no one would question this. 

 

I've seen balls get lodged in palms in my home course in Florida and never have seen one be identifiable.

[Titleist99]

2 hours ago, 1t2golf said:

 

https://www.golfmagic.com/dp-world-tour/tree-gate-takes-explosive-twist-comment-patrick-reeds-playing-partner

 

Matt Wallace should have been over there protecting the field. IMO