Scratch/Plus Handicap amateur male golfer vs. Nelly Korda (LGPA)

[kiwigolf72]

In NZ the majority of elite women's amateur golf is not played from the women's tees but played from the men's regular tees, but if someone has a HC of +7.1, I don't really care where they are playing from, they obviously got game.

[ThinkingPlus]

3 minutes ago, kiwigolf72 said:

sorry how is that different to what I said?

HCs are based on what tees you play

Sorry. I wasn't explicit enough. Each gender has a separate CR and slope for each set of tees. Typically the woman's CR is about 5 - 6 strokes higher than the men's CR. The slope is higher as well.

[GoGoErky]

6 minutes ago, kiwigolf72 said:

sorry how is that different to what I said?

HCs are based on what tees you play

There’s a rating for men and women on each tee. 

[Avidswampthing66]

10 hours ago, bcjim said:

I think they all ought to actually have a tournament with all these guys.  I know there's been the occasional half assed thing but surely some sponsor could be found to put up a decent purse for a one off event? Gross and net even.

 

Do too many guys fear getting exposed and their covers blown? Why hasn't this happened?

 

I saw this guy play Bethpage,  he's obv good but also obv not a tour level golfer currently. 

 

 

I think there was one in 2023.  George Bryan won it if memory serves me well?   Hopefully we can put the "scratch golfer can beat Nelly Korda or LPGA player at rest." 

 

 

[straightshot7]

Aren’t the debates typically about an “average LPGA tour player”?

 

that’s a far cry from arguably best woman player in the world. 
 

Like the difference between Kevin Streelman and Rory or Scottie sheffler. Different animal. 

Edited January 15 by straightshot7

[AnthonyC143]

Professional women players are far superior in technical ability.  They will mop the floor with most.  

[jimecherry]

29 minutes ago, Avidswampthing66 said:

I think there was one in 2023.  George Bryan won it if memory serves me well?   Hopefully we can put the "scratch golfer can beat Nelly Korda or LPGA player at rest." 

 

 

that wasnt really much of a tournament as it was a 9 hole playoff. i think what bcj is wanting resembles the good good championship which is two days of small time professionals competing for 100k. i think the thing preventing such a thing for content creators only is probably media rights for all the different groups isnt managed or owned by one entity.

[cardia10]

10 hours ago, straightshot7 said:

Aren’t the debates typically about an “average LPGA tour player”?

 

that’s a far cry from arguably best woman player in the world. 
 

Like the difference between Kevin Streelman and Rory or Scottie sheffler. Different animal. 

I play with and around a part time LPGA player. She plays the tips and still shoots a couple under every round. A typical scratch may beat her one round out of 10 but it will not happen consistently. She shot even par at Valhalla the first time she saw the course from almost 7,000 yards. Lipped out or burned edge on 5 birdies. When you hit it 270 in the middle of the fairway, it makes the game much easier. I'd love to host a Golfwrx scratch vs her for cash. It would be a bloodbath.

[straightshot7]

2 hours ago, cardia10 said:

I play with and around a part time LPGA player. She plays the tips and still shoots a couple under every round. A typical scratch may beat her one round out of 10 but it will not happen consistently. She shot even par at Valhalla the first time she saw the course from almost 7,000 yards. Lipped out or burned edge on 5 birdies. When you hit it 270 in the middle of the fairway, it makes the game much easier. I'd love to host a Golfwrx scratch vs her for cash. It would be a bloodbath.

270 yards would make her 13th in driving distance in 2023, I’m pretty sure.

 

the average is more like 256. And they don’t hit every fairway.

 

i think the average scratch would also lose. But a plus handicap, former d1 or d2 player may be a different story. 

[farmer]

Nelly's scoring average for 2023 was a smidge under 70, so on the surface, a plus man should be able to hang.  Even + hdcp players have their occasional oops rounds thrown out, and Nelly plays where every stroke counts on tournament courses.

[Evolved]

A lot of youtube golf is manipulated, like the good good guys playing from the senior tees and bragging about driving greens on par 4s. Guys that hit the ball as well as they do shouldn't be playing 9 holes at 3k yards.

[mosesgolf]

Of course our legendary WRX 4s believe they can take on Grant and win so this video proves nothing.  😁

[dimitrym91]

I just think people underestimate how good pro's are, not just for golf but for any sport. These people literally do it 8+ hours a day as their full time job. Anyone who thinks the average amateur could compete with even the worst tour player is completely out to lunch. 

 

I'm a 4 handicap golfer and played travel hockey when I was younger. There is not a single part of me that thinks I could ever compete with a PGA tour or NHL player under any circumstance

[PJE]

On 1/10/2024 at 11:44 AM, nikegolfer93 said:

… I honestly still don't get why women golf is more popular but they can flat out play golf. 

Female pro golfers, while highly accomplished, are not competitive at the highest level of pro golf- the PGA Tour. A female  pro can’t even make a cut on Tour. 
Most golfers are male.
Many accomplished male golfers  hit the ball as far or further than female pros. 
Most sports fans are male. 

The sum of this is a relative lack of interest in the LPGA and other women’s tours. 
But, when and if, a  female pro successfully competes on Tour, there will be an explosion of interest. I think this could happen someday. 

[mosesgolf]

11 minutes ago, PJE said:

Female pro golfers, while highly accomplished, are not competitive at the highest level of pro golf- the PGA Tour. A female  pro can’t even make a cut on Tour. 
Most golfers are male.
Many accomplished male golfers  hit the ball as far or further than female pros. 
Most sports fans are male. 

The sum of this is a relative lack of interest in the LPGA and other women’s tours. 
But, when and if, a  female pro successfully competes on Tour, there will be an explosion of interest. I think this could happen someday. 

Lexi Thompson showed how high LPGA skill level is last fall.  She missed the cut on a PGA Tour event (PGA Shriners in Las Vegas) by 3.  She shot 69 on her 2nd round and she beat quite a few of the guys too.  Not only did some of the guys not shoot even par for 2 rounds like Lexi a lot of them didn't shoot 69 either for the 2nd round  And Lexi isn't even anywhere near the best on the LPGA.

[PJE]

1 hour ago, mosesgolf said:

Lexi Thompson showed how high LPGA skill level is last fall.  She missed the cut on a PGA Tour event (PGA Shriners in Las Vegas) by 3.  She shot 69 on her 2nd round and she beat quite a few of the guys too.  Not only did some of the guys not shoot even par for 2 rounds like Lexi a lot of them didn't shoot 69 either for the 2nd round  And Lexi isn't even anywhere near the best on the LPGA.

Yeah, she missed the cut. And after a little bit of attention prior to to her missed cut, the needle on interest went back to zero.
This is my point. 
A female golfer is going to have to make cuts or, ideally, win, for a transformative change in interest. I think that could eventually occur. 

[wobgon]

On 1/13/2024 at 1:45 PM, Loki said:

Of course GolfWRX is surprised by this just, look up the thread about a 4 HC male playing on the LPGA tour. EVERYONE here thinks he would cleanup.

EVERYONE???

[cardia10]

8 hours ago, straightshot7 said:

270 yards would make her 13th in driving distance in 2023, I’m pretty sure.

 

the average is more like 256. And they don’t hit every fairway.

 

i think the average scratch would also lose. But a plus handicap, former d1 or d2 player may be a different story. 

She was D1 all American before over 10 full time years on tour. Plays a handful of tournaments a year now. I’d say her carry is 250. 270 average with a ton of roll out with 1 missed fairway (rolled through end of fairway) at Valhalla. I’m not sure if I hit a fairway. She plays in a regular group with 2 former SEC all Americans who are between +2-+5 now and holds her own. Her proximity on par 3s, even with long irons, are just crazy. Just plays so consistent and rarely makes more than a bogey. Playing with someone who has done it for a true living for years is a totally different experience than playing with your local club + cap. 

[Chunkitgood]

I only watched a part of one hole…but IIRC the guy couldn’t stick it on the green from 125 yards or so.

 

Makes me wonder whether there are a lot of low scoring “players” out there with similar games who rely on low spin, high trajectory shots (i.e., shots based on the low spin, high launch promised by modern clubs rather than traditional ideas of how to strike the ball to produce height and distance using spin).  I tend to believe the old way is superior (if you can learn to do it) because it is more reliable and the ball will stay on the green better with spin.

[bazzle18]

I'm going to watch the video here shortly, but off the top what course and length are they playing?

[jimecherry]

39 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

I only watched a part of one hole…but IIRC the guy couldn’t stick it on the green from 125 yards or so.

 

Makes me wonder whether there are a lot of low scoring “players” out there with similar games who rely on low spin, high trajectory shots (i.e., shots based on the low spin, high launch promised by modern clubs rather than traditional ideas of how to strike the ball to produce height and distance using spin).  I tend to believe the old way is superior (if you can learn to do it) because it is more reliable and the ball will stay on the green better with spin.

grant doesnt swing fast enough to get good spin 

[mosesgolf]

8 hours ago, PJE said:

Yeah, she missed the cut. And after a little bit of attention prior to to her missed cut, the needle on interest went back to zero.
This is my point. 
A female golfer is going to have to make cuts or, ideally, win, for a transformative change in interest. I think that could eventually occur. 

There are plenty of girls that would make a PGA Tour cut.  Plenty of girls beats Lexi by more than 3 at the LPGA Shriners 2023 if most of the top gals played.  The point is that they're really good and it's laughable that so many plus male golfers think they got LPGA level game.  They don't.  

[woahnelly]

2 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

There are plenty of girls that would make a PGA Tour cut.  Plenty of girls beats Lexi by more than 3 at the LPGA Shriners 2023 if most of the top gals played.  The point is that they're really good and it's laughable that so many plus male golfers think they got LPGA level game.  They don't.  

 

Id bet money on the ladies if 50 LPGA players v 50 PGA pros on a par 3 course.

[woahnelly]

12 hours ago, PJE said:

Yeah, she missed the cut. And after a little bit of attention prior to to her missed cut, the needle on interest went back to zero.
This is my point. 
A female golfer is going to have to make cuts or, ideally, win, for a transformative change in interest. I think that could eventually occur. 

 

20 year old KLPGA pro Ina Yoon, while serving suspension, played on the minor league golf tour in Florida amongst the men, the same tour that Eric Cole came from, id say she did pretty well 

 

https://minorleaguegolf.com/bio.asp?Record_ID=8826

[SurfDuffer]

I've played in about 20 two day LPGA pro-ams over the years.  I've gotten to play with a lot of different players.   Through those years my index ranged from a 4.3 to a 6.7 and I've had guests as good as +1 in my group.  The elite players on tour are insanely good and even the middle of the pack players are incredible.  While not as long they are incredibly accurate on the tee.......not just hitting the fairway, hitting the correct spot in the fairway almost every time.  Lights out from 150 into the hole.  Short game and putting are nuts.

[MtlJeff]

This gets brought up in a lot of the threads , but saying an LPGA pro would beat a scratch male is not some big revelation. LPGA pros are much better than scratch indexes. They should absolutely beat scratch players. It's not like we don't have observational data up the wazoo on this

 

The courses the women play on tour are often around the same length your average scratch will play in the real world (mid 6k or slightly longer) and they shoot better scores than scratch players do. 

[farmer]

22 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Of course our legendary WRX 4s believe they can take on Grant and win so this video proves nothing.  😁

Obviously on the day when the 4's deficiencies in putting/chipping (very common), iron play and driving all come together.

[physasst]

3 hours ago, SurfDuffer said:

I've played in about 20 two day LPGA pro-ams over the years.  I've gotten to play with a lot of different players.   Through those years my index ranged from a 4.3 to a 6.7 and I've had guests as good as +1 in my group.  The elite players on tour are insanely good and even the middle of the pack players are incredible.  While not as long they are incredibly accurate on the tee.......not just hitting the fairway, hitting the correct spot in the fairway almost every time.  Lights out from 150 into the hole.  Short game and putting are nuts.

 

THIS^^^^^. Their short game is light years ahead of most AMs and better than many male pros. They can't overpower a course, but 100 yards and in is just insane. 

 

M

[physasst]

I got to play with a top former D1 player who played on the national championship Baylor team. She was a fellow completing her Pain/PM&R fellowship and didn't play as much as a result. She shot 71 and apologized as she didn't feel her game was as good because of limited time to play. She told a story of a practice 9 holes in college where she got a hole in one on BOTH par 3's. Her drives weren't long, but were competitive with our predominantly male group (250ish) but straight. I've never in my life, at least in playing with someone, seen a short game that good. Her putting was amazing and she didn't even get to play much. I play routinely with a +3 cap at our club. I can say confidently that they would have had a close match. And she wasn't an LPGA player who is probably light years better. 

 

M

[tacklingdummy]

The LPGA pros will just beat down any amateur around the greens with short game and putting. The only chance any amateur would have is if their ball striking was extremely good and they were way longer.