Third best player of all time?

tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,386 ✭✭
Who would you argue is the third greatest golfer of all time?



I would vote for Sam Snead ... based on number of wins, majors, that gorgeous swing and the folk lore that surrounds him and his athletic ability.
Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9.5*
Hybrid: Titleist 816H1, 19*
Long Iron: Ping iE1, 26*
Mid Iron: Ping iE1, 32*
Short Iron: Ping iE1, 41*
Wedge: Ping iE1, 45*
Gap: Ping Glide SS, 52*
Lob: Ping Glide ES, 60*
Putter: Yes Callie Mid, 41"
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
Bag: Sun Mountain Swift X
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Comments

  • knock it closeknock it close Members Posts: 7,945 ✭✭
    edited May 18, 2017 #2
    Hogan, Jones or Sneed. Maybe the King too but I haven't thought close enough, could make arguments for all though
    M2, maybe
    915 FD
    913 HD
    712u 3
    714 AP2 4-p
    SM5 53, 59
    Circa62
  • Bogie_NightsBogie_Nights Members Posts: 2,256 ✭✭
    Numbers say Snead, but my heart says Hogan.
  • tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,386 ✭✭


    Hogan, Jones or Sneed


    Ya can't pick 3 ... that's too easy!
    Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9.5*
    Hybrid: Titleist 816H1, 19*
    Long Iron: Ping iE1, 26*
    Mid Iron: Ping iE1, 32*
    Short Iron: Ping iE1, 41*
    Wedge: Ping iE1, 45*
    Gap: Ping Glide SS, 52*
    Lob: Ping Glide ES, 60*
    Putter: Yes Callie Mid, 41"
    Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
    Bag: Sun Mountain Swift X
  • Bogie_NightsBogie_Nights Members Posts: 2,256 ✭✭
    Also, JonesScott's career is not over yet...
  • knock it closeknock it close Members Posts: 7,945 ✭✭
    tatertot wrote:



    Hogan, Jones or Sneed


    Ya can't pick 3 ... that's too easy!
    I know I haven't looked close enough to give a final answer I'd probably lean Jones though....
    M2, maybe
    915 FD
    913 HD
    712u 3
    714 AP2 4-p
    SM5 53, 59
    Circa62
  • tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,386 ✭✭


    Numbers say Snead, but my heart says Hogan.




    9 majors in 8 years ... and went 3-for-3 in majors, 5-for-6 overall in 1953 while in horrific pain ... pretty good argument could be made for Hogan.
    Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9.5*
    Hybrid: Titleist 816H1, 19*
    Long Iron: Ping iE1, 26*
    Mid Iron: Ping iE1, 32*
    Short Iron: Ping iE1, 41*
    Wedge: Ping iE1, 45*
    Gap: Ping Glide SS, 52*
    Lob: Ping Glide ES, 60*
    Putter: Yes Callie Mid, 41"
    Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
    Bag: Sun Mountain Swift X
  • littleinjunplittleinjunp Banned Posts: 194
  • ThrillhouseThrillhouse EVERYTHING'S COMING UP THRILLHOUSE! Members Posts: 11,165 ✭✭
    If you look at who was the most dominant in his era after tiger and nicklaus I'd say bobby jones. As great as palmer, player, Snead, hogan, and Nelson were they were always part of a group of good players, who didn't rise above the others the way tiger, jack, and jones did IMO.
  • cdnglfcdnglf Members Posts: 3,188 ✭✭
    Not Jones or Nelson.
  • tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,386 ✭✭


    If you look at who was the most dominant in his era after tiger and nicklaus I'd say bobby jones. As great as palmer, player, Snead, hogan, and Nelson were they were always part of a group of good players, who didn't rise above the others the way tiger, jack, and jones did IMO.




    I can see Jones ...




    Phil, easily.




    This one is going to need some more convincing ...
    cdnglf wrote:


    Not Jones or Nelson.




    And I'm interested to hear more about this ... I kind of understand Nelson, with a lot of his wins coming during the wars years, but why throw Jones in here?
    Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9.5*
    Hybrid: Titleist 816H1, 19*
    Long Iron: Ping iE1, 26*
    Mid Iron: Ping iE1, 32*
    Short Iron: Ping iE1, 41*
    Wedge: Ping iE1, 45*
    Gap: Ping Glide SS, 52*
    Lob: Ping Glide ES, 60*
    Putter: Yes Callie Mid, 41"
    Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
    Bag: Sun Mountain Swift X
  • CCTxGolfCCTxGolf Going to the Masters...Someday Corpus ChristiMembers Posts: 790 ✭✭
    edited May 18, 2017 #12
    Palmer is definitely the most important golfer of all time and I would say he could make a pretty good run at third best too.



    Cool topic!
    Driver - Callaway EPIC SZ 10.5*
    Fairway Wood - Titleist 917 F2 16.5* and 21*
    Irons - Titleist AP2 4-PW
    Wedges - Titleist SM 5 52*, Titleist SM 6 56* and 60*
    Putter - Scotty Cameron Golo 5 or Odyssey Toe Up #1
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,128 ✭✭
    Jones

    Ping G400
    Callaway Rogue 3w, HW
    Ping G 4 hybrid
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
    Vokey 58 M grind
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • golfgirlrobingolfgirlrobin Members Posts: 2,309 ✭✭
    Walter Hagen. 11 majors before there was a Masters to win.
    Driver: Ping G400 Max 10.5*
    Fairway: Epic Flash 14* & 20*
    Hybrid: Ping G410 22*
    Irons: TaylorMade M CGB 6-SW
    Wedges: Callaway 2019 PM Grind 59* and 64*
    Putter: Ping Cadence TR Ketsch
    Ball:  Titleist Pro V1
  • JunkerJorgeJunkerJorge Members Posts: 272 ✭✭
    Hogan didn't really go on a tear until Byron Nelson took his ball and went home. Just saying.
  • cdnglfcdnglf Members Posts: 3,188 ✭✭
    edited May 18, 2017 #16
    tatertot wrote:

    cdnglf wrote:


    Not Jones or Nelson.




    And I'm interested to hear more about this ... I kind of understand Nelson, with a lot of his wins coming during the wars years, but why throw Jones in here?




    Nelson was the third best player born in 1912.



    Palmer, Snead, and Hogan each has 60+ wins. Phil has nearly 50. Hagen's career partially predates the tour, but he still gets credit for 45 (and 11 pro majors). And of course Gary Player won 900 events, give or take. Jones didn't win nearly that many events (even if you count the "1908 East Lake Children's Tournament"), and his amateur "majors" are way overrated. No Hagen (the actual best player of that era), no Sarazen, no Barnes, etc.
  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,394 ✭✭
    edited May 30, 2017 #17


    Hogan didn't really go on a tear until Byron Nelson took his ball and went home. Just saying.
    And Nelson won 38 of his 52 tour wins from 1941-1946. Rest of the world was otherwise occupied as I recall. Just saying.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    WITB
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    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,386 ✭✭
    cdnglf wrote:

    tatertot wrote:

    cdnglf wrote:


    Not Jones or Nelson.




    And I'm interested to hear more about this ... I kind of understand Nelson, with a lot of his wins coming during the wars years, but why throw Jones in here?




    Nelson was the third best player born in 1912.



    Palmer, Snead, and Hogan each has 60+ wins. Phil has nearly 50. Hagen's career partially predates the tour, but he still gets credit for 44 (and 11 pro majors). And of course Gary Player won 900 events, give or take. Jones didn't win nearly that many events (even if you count the "1908 East Lake Children's Tournament"), and his amateur "majors" are way overrated. No Hagen (the actual best player of that era), no Sarazen, no Barnes, etc.




    Good stuff ...



    Nelson is tough for me to judge. He dominated golf for a time, and while it was war time, Snead and Hogan were still playing while Nelson won 11 in a row and 18 of 35 in 1945. His major total is low (5), but he basically retired at 34, and lost out on 14 majors cancelled because of the war. If he hadn't retired in the prime of his career, it would be interesting what his numbers would look like. And, as JunkerJorge pointed out above, Hogan's career did not take off until Nelson called it quits.
    Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9.5*
    Hybrid: Titleist 816H1, 19*
    Long Iron: Ping iE1, 26*
    Mid Iron: Ping iE1, 32*
    Short Iron: Ping iE1, 41*
    Wedge: Ping iE1, 45*
    Gap: Ping Glide SS, 52*
    Lob: Ping Glide ES, 60*
    Putter: Yes Callie Mid, 41"
    Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
    Bag: Sun Mountain Swift X
  • littleinjunplittleinjunp Banned Posts: 194
    edited May 19, 2017 #19
    cdnglf wrote:
    Palmer, Snead, and Hogan each has 60+ wins. Phil has nearly 50.




    Only one of them played against the full complement of international players, in an era with ubiquitous swing trainers and personal masseuses and 'sports psychologists' and hyperbaric chambers and lap-band surgeries. And Tiger Woods.
  • JunkerJorgeJunkerJorge Members Posts: 272 ✭✭
    Comparing numbers doesn't give an accurate picture. To compare Jack and Tiger's numbers with the Hogan/Nelson Era when guys hardly if ever crossed the pond doesn't make a ton of sense. Also does greatest career = greatest player?



    I don't understand why every quickly dismisses Nelson's run in 45-46. For one any streak of 11 in a row is huge I don't care what the situation is. There was plenty of competition. Hogan won a few in 45 so at least somebody was around. Also Nelson's average score that year was the lowest in history. Were all the good courses away as well?



    It was a different time when the life of a pro wasn't so glam. Nelson had different goals and decided to hang it up at 34, but the fact remains that he flat out dominated Hogan when they competed together. If you want to just do a number count fine, but I think it is ridiculous to dismiss Nelson out of hand.
  • grm24grm24 Western PAMembers Posts: 3,104 ✭✭


    Phil, easily.
    Billy Casper well before Phil. Casper is one of the most over looked and under appreciated great players in PGA Tour history when it comes to discussing greats of the game.
  • littleinjunplittleinjunp Banned Posts: 194
    grm24 wrote:



    Phil, easily.
    Billy Casper well before Phil. Casper is one of the most over looked and under appreciated great players in PGA Tour history when it comes to discussing greats of the game.




    The guy who laid up on Par 3s? Lol
  • grm24grm24 Western PAMembers Posts: 3,104 ✭✭
    cdnglf wrote:

    tatertot wrote:

    cdnglf wrote:


    Not Jones or Nelson.




    And I'm interested to hear more about this ... I kind of understand Nelson, with a lot of his wins coming during the wars years, but why throw Jones in here?




    Nelson was the third best player born in 1912.



    Palmer, Snead, and Hogan each has 60+ wins. Phil has nearly 50. Hagen's career partially predates the tour, but he still gets credit for 45 (and 11 pro majors). And of course Gary Player won 900 events, give or take. Jones didn't win nearly that many events (even if you count the "1908 East Lake Children's Tournament"), and his amateur "majors" are way overrated. No Hagen (the actual best player of that era), no Sarazen, no Barnes, etc.
    42 wins for Phil is not nearly 50 PGA Tour wins. That's like saying Billy Caspers 51 PGA Tour wins are nearly 60.
  • littleinjunplittleinjunp Banned Posts: 194
    But seriously, the 200th ranked player in 2005 probably had more natural talent and cultivated skill than the 30th ranked player in 1960whatever
  • grm24grm24 Western PAMembers Posts: 3,104 ✭✭
    edited May 19, 2017 #25

    grm24 wrote:



    Phil, easily.
    Billy Casper well before Phil. Casper is one of the most over looked and under appreciated great players in PGA Tour history when it comes to discussing greats of the game.




    The guy who laid up on Par 3s? Lol


    And Phil couldn't make a par at Merion on a sub 100 yard par 3 when it counted in the final round. Greatest short game ever my rear. BTW Casper made par every time he laid up in the 1959 US Open. Played to his strengths. Perhaps Casper should have hit a driver 50-60 yards off line and almost knocked over a merchandise tent at Winged Foot like Phil did in 2006 to blow a US Open.



    http://query.nytimes...755C0A9609C8B63
  • tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,386 ✭✭


    But seriously, the 200th ranked player in 2005 probably had more natural talent and cultivated skill than the 30th ranked player in 1960whatever




    That statement is an excellent light for us to shine on all your past and future posts in this discussion.
    Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9.5*
    Hybrid: Titleist 816H1, 19*
    Long Iron: Ping iE1, 26*
    Mid Iron: Ping iE1, 32*
    Short Iron: Ping iE1, 41*
    Wedge: Ping iE1, 45*
    Gap: Ping Glide SS, 52*
    Lob: Ping Glide ES, 60*
    Putter: Yes Callie Mid, 41"
    Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
    Bag: Sun Mountain Swift X
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,128 ✭✭


    But seriously, the 200th ranked player in 2005 probably had more natural talent and cultivated skill than the 30th ranked player in 1960whatever


    But seriously, based on what? Did natural talent, whatever that is, just become common in the last few years? But seriously.

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    Ping G 4 hybrid
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
    Vokey 58 M grind
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • cdnglfcdnglf Members Posts: 3,188 ✭✭
    edited May 19, 2017 #28
    grm24 wrote:

    cdnglf wrote:

    tatertot wrote:

    cdnglf wrote:


    Not Jones or Nelson.




    And I'm interested to hear more about this ... I kind of understand Nelson, with a lot of his wins coming during the wars years, but why throw Jones in here?




    Nelson was the third best player born in 1912.



    Palmer, Snead, and Hogan each has 60+ wins. Phil has nearly 50. Hagen's career partially predates the tour, but he still gets credit for 45 (and 11 pro majors). And of course Gary Player won 900 events, give or take. Jones didn't win nearly that many events (even if you count the "1908 East Lake Children's Tournament"), and his amateur "majors" are way overrated. No Hagen (the actual best player of that era), no Sarazen, no Barnes, etc.
    42 wins for Phil is not nearly 50 PGA Tour wins. That's like saying Billy Caspers 51 PGA Tour wins are nearly 60.




    I didn't say PGA Tour... Phil also has 3 Euro Tour wins. So I was a bit generous in rounding up.
  • ShilgyShilgy Members Posts: 11,394 ✭✭
    If all it is is a number count them it must be Snead? Or Hagen as he had third most majors and I have learned on wrx that 11>9.

    I was looking up some other things earlier and saw an article that list the authors top 10 all time golfers. Only Tiger started his career in the last 45 years. Only Woods and Watson started their career in the last 65 years. Just seems unlikely to me that golf is the only sport that has regressed so much. All other sports we acknowledge that the athletes are bigger stronger faster better but not golf I guess. Most on this list were born over a century ago.

    Point being it's easy to just look at win totals and be awed by the players of long ago. Might it be at least partially due to the lack of competition? Comments about Nelson strike me like this. We hear that he did have a lot of competition because Snead and Hogan played. Well, if forbid the thought, we had a major war today and the tour consisted of DJ Day and Rory and a bunch of mini tour guys do you think the big three might get a lot of wins?
    WITB
    Tools for the job!

    To paraphrase Dr Seuss: Don't cry because the round of golf is over-smile because it happened . :)

    Game is recovering from total ankle replacement. Getting there and glad to be pain free!
  • dlygrissedlygrisse Members Posts: 13,128 ✭✭
    edited May 19, 2017 #30

    grm24 wrote:



    Phil, easily.
    Billy Casper well before Phil. Casper is one of the most over looked and under appreciated great players in PGA Tour history when it comes to discussing greats of the game.




    The guy who laid up on Par 3s? Lol


    Lol. Yeah he did it every par 3 he ever played. Lol. lol lol.

    Man you are really make some brilliant points. Lol.

    Ping G400
    Callaway Rogue 3w, HW
    Ping G 4 hybrid
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54* SS
    Vokey 58 M grind
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Jones Utility
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • tatertottatertot Members Posts: 4,386 ✭✭
    edited May 19, 2017 #31
    I don't think golf has ever been about the biggest, strongest, fastest ... that's why it's a game where an old man like me can still go out and routinely beat kids in their 20s.



    And yes - the post Jack pre-Tiger era was pretty blah for the PGA. But I honestly think there are 3-4 players on Tour right now who could be all-time top ten material.
    Driver: Adams Speedline Fast 11, 9.5*
    Hybrid: Titleist 816H1, 19*
    Long Iron: Ping iE1, 26*
    Mid Iron: Ping iE1, 32*
    Short Iron: Ping iE1, 41*
    Wedge: Ping iE1, 45*
    Gap: Ping Glide SS, 52*
    Lob: Ping Glide ES, 60*
    Putter: Yes Callie Mid, 41"
    Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
    Bag: Sun Mountain Swift X
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