4 Year old driver vs New Driver Test

 tangojay ·  
tangojaytangojay  978WRX Points: 143Members Posts: 978 Golden Tee
Joined:  in Equipment #1

I bought a XR-16 Driver with Matrix Ozik 6X3 White Tie when it was released in 2016.

Last week I decided it was time for a new driver,,,, so I took my 4 year old driver and tested it against the new Callaway EPIC Flash and EPIC Flash Sub Zero ( I did not try any other driver since I wanted to use same shaft and oversize grip) with a dozen original Kirkland 4 piece balls (which is my current ball).

After warming up , the test started, I did not want to look at monitor until it was over in order to not be influenced. The results? NO noticeable difference !!! The numbers that I remember the most was the fact that all three had very similar numbers in regards to ball speed, club speed, distance and dispersion. If memory serves me right, the EPIC Flash did give me about 1 to 2 yards more distance, but for $529, no, not enough!

That made me think, if ALL drivers have to be .83 COR, then ALL drivers since this standard was implemented should hit the ball the same distance? I realize someone with a 105 MPH club head speed will outdrive me with my 93 MPH average club speed.

So is this "more distance" nothing more than marketing? I would love to see a 5 year old and current driver be robot tested.

Posted:
«1
2

Comments

  • AmazinBlueAmazinBlue  1166WRX Points: 157Handicap: 11Members Posts: 1,166 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #2

    I recently bought a SLDR driver and I think it's as long as anything I have owned

    Posted:
    Taylormade SLDR 460 Tour Issue Pro Launch Blue 44.25"
    Cobra F9 14.5  Tensei Blue AV S 42.75"
    Cobra F9 5/6 Atmos Blue S 42.50"
    Callaway Apex Hybrid 23* Kuro Kage 80 Hy stiff
    Taylormade P790 5-AW Under Construction
    Vokey SM6 54*/08* M Grind Steel Gray
    Vokey SM7 58*/14* D Grind Tour Chrome
    Odyssey Stroke Lab Double Wide 33.5" 
    Maxfli Tour
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • avguyavguy Replacement Player Sonoran Desert, AZ 1111WRX Points: 138Members Posts: 1,111 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #5

    Isn't it ironic that drivers (supposedly "packed" with tech) are of little difference in performance over several years? I believe that 0.83 COR no. was settled from 2006 onwards.

    Just like the countless threads of solid 1 pc. mb and cb irons. Those don't really change for the golfer either, other than sole grinds and bounce.

    I enjoy rotating in my old Titleist 910 D2 still with several others from 2016-18 and only notice some sound differences on impact.

    Posted:
    BAG ONE:                                                                                                                     BAG TWO:
    D-Titleist 917 D2                                                                                                              D-Cobra F9 Tour Length 
    5- Mizuno MP titanium                                                                                                    3-TM R11ti
    H-Titleist 915 H1 18, Titleist 816  H1 21, Bridgestone Precept ECU 25                           H-TM 2.0 SF 18 & 21, Cobra AC 25
    I - Callaway R MBs  5-PW                                                                                                I - Honma TW727M 5-PW 
    W- Mizuno 52, Vokey SM6 58                                                                                        W- Mizuno 53, & 58
    P- Bellum Winmore Midi  787                                                                                         P-Guerin TS Black 370

  • leftyswagdriveleftyswagdrive  6WRX Points: 22Handicap: 20Members Posts: 6 Bunkers
    Joined:  #6

    Thank you for this thread! I wish it would have cane a year ago haha

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • mukstermukster A lot can happen in a year. North of the 49th 3684WRX Points: 438Members Posts: 3,684 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #8

    I have an XR16 driver as well. Took it to the range late last year and hit it against the Epic Flash and The Rogue. No difference in distance or forgiveness. I was not fitted for the driver and stuck my old favorite shaft into it.

    Still, I am going to do a full driver fitting this spring to really see what's what in the pot.

    Posted:
    Callaway XR16 driver, 9 degrees, Diamana S+ shaft
    Callaway Epic 3 Wood , Fubuki Z65 shaft
    Mizuno ST180 5 wood,  Tensei CK Blue shaft
    Cobra F8 22* hybrid
    Srixon Z765 5-PW irons
    , KBS Tour V shafts
    Srixon A wedge 51° bent to 50°
    Hogan Equalizer 54* wedge
    Mizuno S18 58* wedge
    Nike Method Core Drone 2.0 putter
  • MBBGMBBG South of Chicagoland 1655WRX Points: 199Members Posts: 1,655 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #9

    There are tons of other factors for each golfer besides just COR. Launch, spin, delivery variables, forgiveness, strike point, confidence, face depth, rate of closure due to design or settings, aerodynamics, shafts, grips, ball choice, tee height, I could go on all day.

    Posted:
    ONOFF Labospec 358 — Tour AD TP6X
    Titleist TS2 16.5* — Kuro Kage XM 80X
    Mizuno MP-20 HMB/MB—MITSUBISHI MMT 105/125
    Mizuno T20 50* and 55* — MITSUBISHI MMT 125
    Seven ST 61* Black Boron — MCI Black 125 Wedge
    Epon Ltd Edition I-33 — Matrix Ozik PZ-125 Shaft 
  • Hookasaurus RexHookasaurus Rex Purveyor of fine turf  1102WRX Points: 127Members Posts: 1,102 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #10

    That’s basically what I’ve seen as well. I’m of the belief that the class of 2016 and 2017 drivers are the best overall collection of drivers. 2016-2017 M2, with the 2016 being a legend. 2017 M1- super beast Cobra LTD/LTD Pro- for my money, the best Cobra driver ever. The OG 2017 Callaway Epic Sub Zero, such a beast, super forgiving with heavy weight in the back and super long- my favorite Cally driver. The g400LST came out in end of summer 2017- beast driver also....

    I test everything against my LTD Pro and nothing has beat it yet. For me the combination of low spin and forgiveness is unmatched.

    Posted:
    Cobra LTD Pro Aldila Copperhead 60tx 
    Callaway Super Hybrid 16* Tensei Pro Orange 80s
    Ping G410 19* Hybrid Evenflow Black 85 6.0
    Taylormade p790 4-GW Project X LZ 6.0
    Cobra King Black 54*, 58* Modus Wedge 115
    PXG Bat Attack Extreme Darkness 35”
  • agolf1agolf1  1849WRX Points: 1,035Members Posts: 1,849 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #11

    If you literally never miss the centre then yes, you could play with a mid-2000s 0.83 COR driver and not much would be different.

    On average, across the face and factoring in MOI, there have probably been some advancements for most. I.e does your AVERAGE drive go farther?

    That being said, I'd be surprised if it is 10 yards total vs a 2010 club (assuming both are well fit to a players swing). And depending on the individual, anything within the last couple to few cycles may actually work thr best.

    I do feel like my 915D4 may be trending towards the obsolete category. But it's not like I'd hit it 20 yards farther just by spending $500+ on a new setup.

    Posted:
    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    PING G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    PING Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    PING Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  PING Eye 2+ (58*) or PING Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • craz-ecraz-e  4301WRX Points: 399Handicap: 3Members Posts: 4,301 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #12
    Posted:
    Driver = Ping G410 Plus even flow black 6.0
    4 wood = Titleist TS2 Even flow white 6.0
    3 iron = Titleist U500 Hzrdus smoke 6.0
    Irons = Titleist 718 CB/MB Project X LZ 6.0
    Wedges = Titleist Vokey SM6 52*, 56*
                  = Ping Glide 3.0 eye 2 60* 
    Putter = Wilson Staff 8882
    Ball = Titleist AVX
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • tangojaytangojay  978WRX Points: 143Members Posts: 978 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #13

    Like I said before, I took the shaft from my 4 year old driver, installed it on a new model plus used the SAME golf ball,,,thus the differences were minimal to none, what your are describing does not apply if all variables have been minimized.

    I could not say the same if I tested my gamer against say a PING 410 max with their standard shaft and grip,,, that alone inserts two variables into the test, the shaft and the grip which is standard in all OEM clubs, I have rather large paws ( two wraps under a oversize grip)

    I am sorry but what you describe sounds like the marketing we hear from companies, I would LOVE if someone at GolfWRX took up the challenge and tested via robot, a current driver, 5 year and 10 year driver with identical specs, but the chances of that are nil since I pretty sure their results would be close to mine and would place a dent in their marketing strategy.

    Posted:
  • AmazinBlueAmazinBlue  1166WRX Points: 157Handicap: 11Members Posts: 1,166 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #15

    No, then I would be driving 450 yard par 4s, where is the fun in that. It's a Tour issue 460 that I bought of ebay for $89. I love it.

    Posted:
    Taylormade SLDR 460 Tour Issue Pro Launch Blue 44.25"
    Cobra F9 14.5  Tensei Blue AV S 42.75"
    Cobra F9 5/6 Atmos Blue S 42.50"
    Callaway Apex Hybrid 23* Kuro Kage 80 Hy stiff
    Taylormade P790 5-AW Under Construction
    Vokey SM6 54*/08* M Grind Steel Gray
    Vokey SM7 58*/14* D Grind Tour Chrome
    Odyssey Stroke Lab Double Wide 33.5" 
    Maxfli Tour
  • NokeNoke  2233WRX Points: 286Members Posts: 2,233 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #16

    But you haven't 'minimized the differences' just by playing the same shaft/grip combo in two different heads. You have no idea from a real technical standpoint which of those two drivers launch higher/lower, spin more/less, like to come in open/closed add loft/subtract loft due to CG placement, have a shallower/deeper face, perform better/worse on mis-hits, are more/less aerodynamic, etc. Not to mention the psychological impact of playing a familiar driver vs. a new one and what that means for how a club gets tested.

    These variables (plus many more) may or may not add up to increased yardage.

    Posted:
  • mbarnockimbarnocki  212WRX Points: 102Handicap: 8Members Posts: 212 Fairways
    Joined:  edited Feb 10, 2020 2:53pm #17

    I agree with Bluedot, all you proved is that your 4 year old shaft is ok for you and Callaway heads haven't changed too much. Which seems reasonable since the Epic Flash isn't even this years model, so the difference between your driver and an epic flash is more like two years. The other problem is the new driver is more than just a clubhead, you didn't try different shafts, or lofts, or lies, or grips. You didn't even look at your shots till the end so it wasn't a fitting.

    Any person on this forum knows by now that changing just the driver head alone is not getting someone 10-15 yards. We all know about marketing. But what we all also should know is that a new driver properly fit can help. But you did not properly fit yourself. But hey maybe you haven't changed at all in four years assuming you were fit for the old one then fine save your money. But the next guy with a four year old driver who wasn't fit could probably go out get fit to a new driver and pick up some yards.

    Posted:
    Titleist TS3 8.5
    On -, @10.25 HZRDS Smoke 65 6.0

    Cobra King F9 Tour 3-4 at 15* Atmos Tour spec blue 6S
    Nike VR Pro 2 Hybrid PX 6.0
    Srixon U85 4 Iron DG 120 X100
    TM 760 Irons 5-pw DG 120 X100
    Vokey 50, 54 PX LX 6.0, KBS Tour V X
    Taylormade Hi toe 60 KBS tour V 115
    Cleveland Huntington Beach Number 1 35"
    Vice Pro Plus Ball
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • MBBGMBBG South of Chicagoland 1655WRX Points: 199Members Posts: 1,655 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #18


    Probably the most meaningful thing you can take away from your findings is that you have a shaft that fits you pretty well.

    Posted:
    ONOFF Labospec 358 — Tour AD TP6X
    Titleist TS2 16.5* — Kuro Kage XM 80X
    Mizuno MP-20 HMB/MB—MITSUBISHI MMT 105/125
    Mizuno T20 50* and 55* — MITSUBISHI MMT 125
    Seven ST 61* Black Boron — MCI Black 125 Wedge
    Epon Ltd Edition I-33 — Matrix Ozik PZ-125 Shaft 
  • mbarnockimbarnocki  212WRX Points: 102Handicap: 8Members Posts: 212 Fairways
    Joined:  #19

    Does he though? He didn't post any numbers. He didn't say they were optimal, just similar among heads and likely what he expects out of his club. Doesn't mean he has been fit and optimized.

    Posted:
    Titleist TS3 8.5
    On -, @10.25 HZRDS Smoke 65 6.0

    Cobra King F9 Tour 3-4 at 15* Atmos Tour spec blue 6S
    Nike VR Pro 2 Hybrid PX 6.0
    Srixon U85 4 Iron DG 120 X100
    TM 760 Irons 5-pw DG 120 X100
    Vokey 50, 54 PX LX 6.0, KBS Tour V X
    Taylormade Hi toe 60 KBS tour V 115
    Cleveland Huntington Beach Number 1 35"
    Vice Pro Plus Ball
  • doubleagle310doubleagle310 ACEpar4  37WRX Points: 29Handicap: 03Members Posts: 37 Bunkers
    Joined:  #20

    XR16 is such a great golf driver. It is so easily to hit and equally long in distance when compare to most of the newer Callaway drivers.

    (I added some lead tape at the bottom near the club face to reduced spin)

    However, the Mavrik is different. I can clearly see an 8-10 yrds gain between the XR16 and the Mavrik SubZero. But I am not sure how consistency of the Mavrik vs the XR16 since I am so confidence with the XR16 already. I will test some more to compare before I make my final decision.

    BTW, the Mavrik sound so good.....

    Posted:
    Callaway XR16* - Graphite Design Tour AD BB 6S
    Callaway Big Bertha Alpha 816 Fairway Wood 14* - Graphite Design Tour AD DI 7S
    Bridgestone J40 21* - Tour AD DI 80 S
    Bridgestone Tour B X-HI #4 23* - KBS Tour Prototype 85g Stiff
    Bridgestone Tour J15 MB 5-PW - KBS 120 S
    Ben Hogan Equalizer Wedges 50*, 54* & 58* - KBS Tour V-Stiff
    Bettinardi Wide Armageddon Limited Edition BB8W 1/250


    Callaway RazFit Extreme - 10.5 
    Bridgestone J40 4 Fairway Wood - Graphite Design 70 S
    Bridgestone J40 18* - Tour AD DI 80 S
    Bridgestone J40 24* - Graphite Design 70 S
    Miura Passing Point PP9003 - KBS Tour 120 S
    Bridgestone J15 Satin Wedges 50*, 54* & 60* - True Temper Dynamic Gold Spinner shaft S
    Bridgestone True Balance TD-03 Putter
    O-Works Red 2-Ball Putter
    Bellum Winmore 303





  • ValtielValtiel Konica-Minolta Bizhub  3133WRX Points: 1,280Handicap: 1.7Members Posts: 3,133 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #21

    I agree with the "not enough data/this isn't scientific" posts, and i'll tell you why.

    Most of the objective "gains" made in the last 5 years have been related to adjustability and forgiveness (both ball speed retention on mishits AND MOI related accuracy gains). The XR16 is a bit of an outlier in the Callaway lineup, even an outlier among the XR16 line (Pro, Subzero). It is sort of like the 2016 M2 in that regard in that its specs give it a longer shelf life than many other drivers. It is high MOI and mid/high CG, virtually in the exact same spot in terms of CG as the Taylormade M5 with the weights back.

    This is why you can't just randomly compare clubs without knowing specs (not your fault, virtually no OEMs publish these things) because you run the risk of drawing wonky conclusions. And also, with all due respect, at 93mph you are not likely to be reaping the same benefits as someone with higher speeds. As you get faster, spin control and overall head stability become more and more important with ill-fitting drivers doing a lot more damage at those higher speeds. Whatever your bad "miss" is, it would likely be significantly worse at higher speeds, and that is where some of the advancements in recent years come in to play.

    With all that said, we're still talking about incremental gains here, nothing revolutionary. Your XR16 will serve you perfectly fine for many years, and it sounds like you have a solid shaft and grip combo as well. The White Tie has a very simple, smooth bend profile that would likely suit a lot of people. If you ever felt like experimenting, the Aldila Rogue Black and Evenlow Blue/Red are similar shafts.

    Posted:
    Mizuno ST190 9.5* Diamana X'17 70XX ||  Taylormade M1 430 8.5* Tensei Pro Orange V2 70TX
    Titleist 915FD 15* Kuro Kage DC 80TX || Taylormade RSI UDI 16* Fujikura Motore Speeder HB 8.8 Tour-Spec X
    Titleist 915FD 18* Kuro Kage 100XTS || Srixon Z U65 Utility 18* Fujikura Motore Speeder HB 9.8 Tour-Spec X
    Callaway X-Forged UT 20* Kuro Kage XT 100TX Hybrid
    Callaway X-Forged UT 23* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Bridgestone J40 DPC 5i-7i 26*- 36* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 40*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Vokey Mild Raw 8620 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Vokey Special 61* Black Oxide V-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Bullseye shaft

    WITB Thread
  • tangojaytangojay  978WRX Points: 143Members Posts: 978 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #22

    WOW! Never thought so many people would feel this way! Many of you are saying the same words I hear in adds. All

    What I did in my opinion , was a very simple un-scientific test, same shaft and grip in two drivers, same company. The new driver which the company claims will increase my distance and decrease my dispersion for $529, so I put it up against a 4 year old driver from the same company. The new driver did not deliver.

    Many of you keep asking for numbers and numbers,, the numbers that mattered to me were the distance and dispersions, funny thing is that a tracker at the PGA Superstore said I hit my PING G700 7 iron 195 on the fly,,, real life I hit it a constant 163-165, so numbers lie.

    finally, wouldn’t you people love to have a robotic golfer hit a 10 , 5 year old and current driver from same company with same specs and see the results ? I would!!

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • Sean2Sean2  32166WRX Points: 1,996Members Posts: 32,166 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #23

    Probably the same with irons, if not more so.

    Posted:

    Treat yourself as if you were someone you are responsible for helping. Jordan Peterson

    Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest thing of all is to see life as it is, and not as it should be. Cervantes

    In golf, the human mind has much higher capabilities to screw things up than the physics has to make things better. Unknown

     

  • bluedotbluedot  3682WRX Points: 381Handicap: 7.5Members Posts: 3,682 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #24

    I don't think anybody is saying what the ads say, and I don't think anybody would disagree that the monitors in big box stores are not to be trusted. FORGET ADVERTISING; nobody is talking about that, and nobody disagrees with you that distance advertising is largely hype.

    What we ARE saying is that testing the same shaft in different heads by the same OEM isn't club fitting AT ALL and in no way speaks to whether or not there is more distance available to you. That's not marketing hype; it's real IF there are combinations of heads and lofts and shafts that would give you better results. There may not be, but the odds are against that, and you'll never know if you don't do some actual testing.

    You say that your swing speed is 93 mph, but you don't mention the loft of the head you are using, or the lofts of the heads that you tried, or the flex of that shaft. THAT is why people are wondering what your numbers are; it isn't some weird obsession with random numbers, just data that is used to figure out what's optimal for your particular swing. I don't go to fittings to get numbers; I go to fittings to get results; at a driver fitting, I might hit a half dozen heads and a half dozen shafts; a good driver fitting takes at least an hour, at least in my experience, and a good fitter can fine tune the parameters until you can be pretty sure that you're getting everything that there is to be had.

    If you don't want to go thru that process, that's well and good, and if you don't want to spend big bucks for a new driver that's completely understandable. But plugging the shaft that you already use into a couple of heads from the same company, then thinking that the results prove that there isn't more distance available to you lacks any scientific validity.

    Posted:
  • achappyachappy Bowie, MD 1166WRX Points: 144Members Posts: 1,166 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #25


    It's funny the lengths that people will go to justify the kool aid. The simple reality is if the driver you had fit you for launch and spin, then you will see minimal gains with the newer stuff. You will see better off center numbers but on the screws very minimal. The only differences between my G30 and the G410 is the feel and sound.

    Posted:
    Ping G30 10.5 Tour 65
    Ping G30 3W Tour 80
    Ping Eye2+ 2-PW KT-M
    Callaway Jaws CC 52*, 58*
    Ping Pal 5Bz
  • Exactice808Exactice808 Just want to hit ball far and go find it...  4817WRX Points: 412Handicap: 7-27Members Posts: 4,817 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #26

    Robot would not answer the question as human is no where near a robot.


    long post here we go,


    1) COR is not the sanction measurement to be clear, generically .830 is used, BUT what is actually used is CT (Characteristic of time)

    1a) The Current LIMIT is 239units +/- 18 for a total max of 257 units. Manufactures measure THIS, not the COR for conforming numbers.


    Is there a difference between your XR16 and a current Maverik

    Subtle but could be different.


    1) Basis of SPECS I noticed one thing people forget to check Total length of clubs Most clubs are moving to the 45.5 to 45.75" and even some 46" (Cameron champ and TW playing 44"ish drivers)

    2) Spin characteristics. from SLDR large weight forward to reduce spin to ultra forgiving rearward weights.... MOI is affected.

    3) If the Optimal max face is capped at .830 or 257 ct units, the bigger better part is outside of the optimal zone. example, 1/8th of an inch from optimal zone (center) the drop off would be .730 COR or 210 ct units. But possible new clubs and NEWER designs are able to somehow retain a greater amount of ball speed from the 1/8th inch. Due to technology (Jail break, CNC face, Twist face etc etc) They CANNOT exceed the current limits, but there is drop offs further away from center so they can surely do things to increase these areas to mitigate substantial drop offs.

    3a) Example I can generically assume, take the 07 Burner one of the most forgiving drivers of its generation. say we fit it to a player in addition to a Sim MAX driver, same specs, shafts, weight, Swing weight. if they swing the club and missed in the same spot, I would assume the SIM max by tech would likely retain more ball speed than the 07 burner. The next question would be affects of this miss due to CoG and design. Does the miss add or take off spin, how about launch how about MOI or resistance to twist.


    Anyways..... If you have a 1.49 smash factor average and NO issues missing the middle of the face of a driver. The only thing you can focus on is optimizing your launch window for the most efficient amount of Launch angle and spin.


    If you struggle with finding the face, then its game on, trying to find a club that gives you the MOST amount of ball speed on the least optimal strike. The next thing is then matching the head design to your swing profile if you struggle with too much spin, sometimes a lower spin helps. Need more launch than a 10.5 or 11* head over a 9 or 8.5* head. Lastly would just be head design by bias of weight, Draw or fade, not a total believer in this, but hey if it helps a little why not....



    So if you hit 1.5 smash all day.... probably not going to see any gains. But if you vary from 1.40 to 1.48 all over the face, some faces retain better balls speeds than others. Thats the enhancement of tech

    Posted:
    Titleist 915D3 
    TM M2v1 - 
    TM 18* M2 
    TM TP MC 4 & 5 PX 6.0 Rifles
    Cobra AMP Cell Pro 6-PW PX 6.0 Rifles
    Titleist SM5 Vokey50*/8*, 54*/10* & 58*/8* X100's
    Scotty Newport 2 33"
  • SubaruWRXSubaruWRX  3789WRX Points: 537Members Posts: 3,789 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #27

    This would only be funnier if bobcat wasn’t banned already. But it was funny so I still gave you a like! 👍🏻

    Posted:
    “I think getting advice from guys who are sitting at the computer in their underwear while taking a break from **** is a very solid way to choose clubs.” - bluedot
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • bluedotbluedot  3682WRX Points: 381Handicap: 7.5Members Posts: 3,682 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #28

    I think this is sort of the point that a lot of us are trying to make to the OP. You use the word "if" for whether or not a player was fitted for launch and spin, which the OP has never said was the case with his original driver. So we have NO idea if the driver he was using was an optimal fit for him or not, only that he got more or less the same results with the same setup. Which surprises nobody...

    Your experience with the G30 and the G410 aren't surprising either, since you were fitted to the G30, which is still as good as anything on the market. The guy I worked with for years, who is one of Ping's best fitters in the southeast, told me not to bother with a fitting for the G when it came out; my recollection is that he said it was something like 17% more forgiving, but no longer than the G30. BUT when the G400 came out in a smaller head size, and knowing that I'm an old guy trying to stay competitive and fighting for every yard I can get, he said to come in and give it a try. I did, and we got 3 mph of swing speed improvement and 10 yards of carry.

    Interestingly, at least to me, when I did my fitting for the G30 back in 2014, we set it on the big +, and I used it that way for four years. But when I did the G400 fitting, it had to be in the neutral position; either of the plus settings just hooked like crazy. In other words, those two heads are VERY different in ways OTHER than distance. I haven't hit the G410, but I'm sort of assuming that the slider also has an impact in terms of being able to tweak ball flight.

    Marketing in TV and print ads focuses on distance, no doubt about it, and most of that IS hype, and no doubt about that, either. But any golfer, especially one with a lower swing speed, who ignores the possibility of picking up yardage and/or better dispersion thru the work of a good fitter is missing a bet. And that ain't hype.

    Posted:
  • mosesgolfmosesgolf  6985WRX Points: 282Members Posts: 6,985 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 11, 2020 2:24pm #29

    I’m with Tangojay. The new drivers are not any longer. They haven’t been in years. Yards get picked up from a proper fitting by obtaining ideal launch and spin numbers.

    RS has done this with Ping and Titleist drivers too and it’s pretty much what I’ve experienced



    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DaKG3Df52yc&t=785s

    Posted:
    Ping G400 Max 9 Aldila Rogue 125 MSI 70 X
    Ping G 14.5 3 Wood Tour 75 Stiff
    Ping G 19 Hybrid Tour X 80
    Ping i200 4-AW KBS Tour 120 Stiff
    Ping Glide Forged 56
    Ping Glide Forged 60
    Ping UG-LE Putter
  • achappyachappy Bowie, MD 1166WRX Points: 144Members Posts: 1,166 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #30

    I completely agree. What got added to the mix was all the benefits of a proper fitting when the OP's question was more about actual raw tech in the heads themselves (I assumed possibly incorrectly that his previous driver was fit properly). I don't think anyone is saying that a golfer will not benefit from being fit. But assuming all parameters are correct for the player, raw distance gains from a current head to one from even 10 years ago will be minimal at best when both are hit on the sweet spot. A golfer properly fit for a G30 will hit it farther than an improperly fit G410. I don't think anyone will argue against that.

    Posted:
    Ping G30 10.5 Tour 65
    Ping G30 3W Tour 80
    Ping Eye2+ 2-PW KT-M
    Callaway Jaws CC 52*, 58*
    Ping Pal 5Bz
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • ValtielValtiel Konica-Minolta Bizhub  3133WRX Points: 1,280Handicap: 1.7Members Posts: 3,133 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #31

    That is a bit of a contradictory statement though, because forgiveness (MOI) increases, CG location changes (usually lowering), and things like adjustability and face tech are what make getting ideal numbers easier an more consistent. People get hung up on "COR is maxed out, robots won't show a difference" as though we hit it exactly on the screws every time. If both drivers on the screws go 250 yards, but the older driver looses more yardage on slight mishits, then the newer driver is longer.

    Posted:
    Mizuno ST190 9.5* Diamana X'17 70XX ||  Taylormade M1 430 8.5* Tensei Pro Orange V2 70TX
    Titleist 915FD 15* Kuro Kage DC 80TX || Taylormade RSI UDI 16* Fujikura Motore Speeder HB 8.8 Tour-Spec X
    Titleist 915FD 18* Kuro Kage 100XTS || Srixon Z U65 Utility 18* Fujikura Motore Speeder HB 9.8 Tour-Spec X
    Callaway X-Forged UT 20* Kuro Kage XT 100TX Hybrid
    Callaway X-Forged UT 23* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Bridgestone J40 DPC 5i-7i 26*- 36* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 40*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Vokey Mild Raw 8620 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Vokey Special 61* Black Oxide V-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Scotty Cameron Santa Fe Bullseye shaft

    WITB Thread
2

Leave a Comment

Rich Text Editor. To edit a paragraph's style, hit tab to get to the paragraph menu. From there you will be able to pick one style. Nothing defaults to paragraph. An inline formatting menu will show up when you select text. Hit tab to get into that menu. Some elements, such as rich link embeds, images, loading indicators, and error messages may get inserted into the editor. You may navigate to these using the arrow keys inside of the editor and delete them with the delete or backspace key.