I think drivers are finally “topped out”.

[arbeck]

How many of the new crop of guys who are getting 190MPH ball speed could do that if they were punished as much as they used to be for mishits. The problem with distance isn't so much that the very best players are hitting it too far. It's that distance is now the most important skill to have. A ball roll back probably wouldn't hurt someone like Rory at all (and might even make him better), but for someone like Cameron Champ it could be very detrimental.

[Mikey5e]

If golfers spent as much time worrying about direction as they do distance you would see handicaps drop across the board.

[shotmark]

Very true. I would however argue that they only know they're swinging it properly because of information gained from launch monitors. I'm sure elite golfers from as recently as the 80's and 90's could have got so much more from their games had they had the information available to todays tour pros.

[woods991]

I agree hit all the new drivers same distance but I will say the forgiveness is still improving, but overall it’s like the tv you can only get so clear and so thin. Golf companies I suspect will either be forced to change their business models or simple depletion will continue to happen.

[Hat Trick]

It seems the consumer is getting smarter too - Titleist just dropped their TS drivers from last year to $399 (-$100) which was pretty quick for them. I think we are seeing there is no more distance to be gained - so wait a year and save some cash.

[woods991]

great point, they call the mizzy driver a budget driver price point lol. Plenty of the Titleist , srixon and mizzy driver used on tour.

[GSDriver]

Distance gains are not as incremental as is forgiveness. I remember when first Big Bertha came out, it was like cheating, and more recent drivers are even more so.

[RacineBoxer]

Rick Shiels has some interesting videos from 2017 where he tested 5 drivers from single companies from 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and it produced some interesting results. And you can also compare his 2019-2020 videos and as long as his swing around the same clubhead speed, I'd think the results should be pretty easily comparable.

 

Moral of the story - if you were well fit back in 2013-2014 there is little to no improvement through 2020. Perhaps I'm a little biased as I'm playing the 2014 Cobra BioCell and he pumped that out there 300 yards with just under a 112 mph clubhead speed. The new SIM & Mavrick he can squeak out 305-307 but he's typically doing that with a 114-115 clubhead speed (and even that is optimized because the Mavrick Max for him was only 300 while the Mavrick Std was 307).

 

The people who are picking up 10 or even 20 yards of improvement have to be getting it with improved launch and spin numbers, because the faces have been max'd out for a long time.

[chisag]

"The people who are picking up 10 or even 20 yards of improvement have to be getting it with improved launch and spin numbers, because the faces have been max'd out for a long time."

 

... I would agree that center contact has been maxed out but not "faces". The Cobra Extreme (that I own but not hit yet0 with it's milled wrap around face should be more forgiving around the perimeter than my F8. So while I certainly won't gain 20 yards on a high toe strike, I may gain 5-10 with better direction as well. Of course I may only gain 2 or 1 or zero yards, but directional control should definitely be better.

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Ive tested my 1978 persimmons driver against all the drivers since and nothing still wont beat it. Old woody still flying 370yrds straight as a broomstick.

[shotmark]

I guess you're being ironic but if not and you really are hitting 370 yard straight drives with a persimmon playing of 14 the rest of your game must be pretty shocking.

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Thats because im using these new age irons made of who knows what? If my old wooden irons didnt catch on fire id still be a 3 handi. Dont get me started on these 5 piece balls. The only thing i like 5 piece is my happy meal if you catch my drifting. Anywho...

[BIG STU]

ROTFLMAO!!!! You ain't gonna pull that on me because I still play persimmon too about half the time.

[BIG STU]

What I am curious about is what the milled face is supposed to do on those drivers. will be interesting to get your perspective on it when you get to try yours out

[A.Princey]

The TXG review video of the '16 M2 vs '17 M1 vs SIM was basically like splitting hairs for the guy with 175mph+ ball speed. I'm thoroughly convinced max-out has pretty much occurred. The only thing remotely relevant to my choice anymore, is loft choices and head design(size, shape, colors, crown, face height, face CG, alignment aid, weight kits etc.).

[SwooshLT]

^^^^THIS^^^^

I found for me the look, sound , feel , flight and adjustability of the M5 fit ME better than any of the newer drivers( it's not that old I know) add in the savings and I'm a happy camper

[pinestreetgolf]

Why does Rick Shiels doing a test for him have anything to do with you?

[SwooshLT]

I think the youtubers are proving what we discuss here....not much gain as advertisement would have you to believe

[mantan]

 

I'm a am guilty of going down the YT rabbit hole. But when you strip away all the excitement these guys generation, it seems like the clubs perform almost identically...year after year.

 

But selling hope is a powerful tool. I love my current driver, but all the buzz about the new 2020 drivers makes me want to try them....

[SwooshLT]

I was hitting my M3 extremely well......fell for the hype and tried the 19 models......tried the 20' models and went back to the M3 and then on to 16 M2 settling on 19 M5......primarily for feel, flight , dispersion.....not distance

[TollBros]

When it comes to ball speed, basically yes they are maxed out under the current rules. Thankfully ball speed is just one dynamic to fitting and performance. Below is some data of Trackman testing we did on the 2020 heads.

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1811735/2020-driver-trackman-data-taylormade-callaway-cobra-ping/p1?new=1

[Shilgy]

Champ is the only player in the last ten years that averaged over 190 ball speed. And would they get punished as you seem to believe? To average 190 you need to be centering it pretty much every time. They don’t get 190 on mishits.

[A.Princey]

I wish the M5/M6 lines had less carbon on the sole, I'd own one in a heartbeat cause I love the look at address. I cannot get past the thought of punishing the brittle sole with sand and turf, too much OCD about keeping my clubs in tip-top-shape.

[SwooshLT]

 

Funny/ironic that you mentioned the carbon .....massive scar! ????

Yet still , this club fits me for all the reasons I mentioned above....and I'll grab another to keep as a backup

[A.Princey]

Yeah, exactly! I still don't understand the benefit on the sole that well, the crown makes more sense, but maybe material engineering is best left to the professionals. On the SIM, at least the big MOI rudder dealy protects most of the under carriage, but the M5 is wide open for carnage.

[SwooshLT]

"The M5 driver has a larger carbon fiber crown the M3 to save weight, and it has carbon fiber panels in the sole that remove weight from non-performance areas. Using the saved weight, engineers were able to redesign the T-track moveable weight system in the sole so fitters and players can now create a larger draw and fade biases."

 

This is the angle that Taylormade has taken ......whilst I agree , I wish durability was factored in.

 

[Mikey5e]

If someone were actually to get five yards more out of a brand new driver how much would that benefit their game?

[Titleist_PT23]

Walk back 5 yards from where your current drives end and find out? Think of it as a delay of game or false start penalty.

Based on proximity stats, it seems like it matters little by little in the long run (some fraction of a shot) but could easily be trounced by other things in any particular round.

[Stinger83]

I don't know any good players that go to the golf store hoping to buy 15 more yards. It's way cheaper to hit a high draw and hit the fairway

[elwhippy]

Hit my M3 versus a SIM and a Mavrik. Mavrik felt better but was shorter. SIM felt awful and no gain. Wallet saved again.