Jordan Spieth gets into it with 'scums' seeking autograph

[Hawkeye77]

I can provide some decent insight on this subject. I'm a somewhat younger guy. I collect golf autographs and get them myself at the tournament or 2 that I go to each year, but I don't sell them and never have. Really no one should buy golf autographs, as they are easy to get from the players and generally not worth much.I prefer to get them personalized as it means more, but some, like Mickelson, won't personalize anything. I've seen a few here say that players should personalize the autographs to devalue them. On a flag or a fabric item that would work. On other stuff, sharpie can be taken off in about 30 seconds with rubbing alcohol or a dry erase marker. Rickie Fowler takes it to a different level. He personalizes photos and runs your name into his autograph, so if you try to remove it, the autograph is ruined.

 

When I go to the tournament I meet up with people that I originally met at the tournament. Now it's a tradition to go and meet up with them. We have a blast and they are some really great people from different backgrounds. A couple are cops, another a millionaire doctor, and the others are business professionals. To me, those stories of hanging with them and meeting players are better and more valuable than the autographs will ever be. That's what most people "don't get". For most it's not about the autograph. A vast majority of the players are really great and interact with the fans when signing autographs. Some better than others. You get a chance to see what they are like and it can change your perception of them for the better. Many will surprise you. Henrik Stenson, Sergio, and Patrick Reed are among my favorites. Just from seeing Stenson on TV he looks intimidating and that he wouldn't be friendly. That couldn't more any further from the truth. He loves joking around with people and is very genuine. Sergio and Patrick Reed are two that are disliked around here, but to the fans, are two of the best and I look forward to seeing them when I go.

 

Now, as far as the professional autograph seekers go...there aren't really that many that do it. It's like 10-15 guys and 1 girl. However, they get a ton of stuff signed. These people are easy to spot. They have a couple bags full of stuff, 15 Masters flags, 40 photos, hats, balls, shirts, you name it. Plus, they look like they have been living in a van. These professionals are mainly from Florida and I think some are from New Jersey. A couple are nice guys, but the rest though...not so much. There are some locals at the Bridgestone Invitational and are pretty terrible too. There was an incident a couple years ago there with Spieth, where a kid was pushed. The players usually know who these professionals are and in Spieth's case, Greller knows too. Greller walks with Jordan when he is signing and calls out anyone that tries to get a 2nd autograph or is a professional. Other players will call out the professionals too and continue on signing for everyone else. Zach Johnson called out a well known professional at the BMW Championship last year. On hole 2, he went up to Zach to get a British Open flag signed. Zach stopped, looked at him and said, "You know what, I'm done signing for you" and said something about cutting him off.

 

I've posted some stuff from my collection from time to time and they get positive responses as people enjoy seeing them. Here is a link to a recent thread which I made 2 posts in.

http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry14766732

 

http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry14777900

 

I have stories for days about meeting players and I try to get a picture with some of the players. Later, I will get a 8x10 of the picture made and have the player sign it. Every time I've done that the players really look at the photo and will ask when it was from and then we have a nice conversation. When I went up to Patrick Reed at the BMW Championship with a photo of him and I from the 2016 Memorial Tournament he started laughing because he was wearing the same shirt from the Memorial. That led to another conversation. Other players have written some really great things on the photo and signed it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have 19 more pics signed with other players and they all mean something to me. I almost didn't post this as I didn't realize this was such a heated topic. I had about half of it typed out in the other thread, then it was sent into exile, but figured what the hell.

 

OMG, Yellow John!

 

Actually, really neat pics.

[Hawkeye77]

I also don't get why the first thread was nuked. I thought we were all doing a decent job being polite to each other? Certainly nowhere near as contentious as some (most? all?) of the various Tiger threads get.

 

Anyway, I'll just restate my opinion that I don't particularly like Spieth--no judgement on the man himself because I don't know him, I just mean that I don't particularly like watching him play golf on my electric teevee machine and give interviews where everything is "we" this and "we" that--but I think he's 100% in the right on this one, and good on him for calling out those dudes.

 

Cheers to all! Spring will be here soon!

 

Not sure why the first one got put in the cooler either. Definitely was less contentious than many of the Tiger threads.

 

And if you submit a completely on topic and innocuous post for moderator approval, it won't be added, so that thread is pretty much locked down.

[nikegal]

I also don't get why the first thread was nuked.

One thing that I have learned about guys in my 46 years(no I don't have a thing about my age, haha. I don't look bad for 46yo :) ) is that many times a man does something because, like that doggy analogy, he can. Make no mistake, he will have a perfectly rational and plausible reason for doing so if questioned, but it comes down to the simple fact that he can. How do you tell the really big doggies? They don't even bother with a reason or excuse. They just smile and reply, "because I can." Have a nice day JM :) Madison

[2putttom]

I also don't get why the first thread was nuked.

One thing that I have learned about guys in my 46 years(no I don't have a thing about my age, haha. I don't look bad for 46yo :) ) is that many times a man does something because, like that doggy analogy, he can. Make no mistake, he will have a perfectly rational and plausible reason for doing so if questioned, but it comes down to the simple fact that he can. How do you tell the really big doggies? They don't even bother with a reason or excuse. They just smile and reply, "because I can." Have a nice day JM :) Madison

I tried this philosophy in my first marriage. It took three marriages to figure out I should ask first.

[Forged4ever]

I also don't get why the first thread was nuked.

One thing that I have learned about guys in my 46 years(no I don't have a thing about my age, haha. I don't look bad for 46yo :) ) is that many times a man does something because, like that doggy analogy, he can. Make no mistake, he will have a perfectly rational and plausible reason for doing so if questioned, but it comes down to the simple fact that he can. How do you tell the really big doggies? They don't even bother with a reason or excuse. They just smile and reply, "because I can." Have a nice day JM :) Madison

I tried this philosophy in my first marriage. It took three marriages to figure out I should ask first.

LMAO, Bro, she's full of ....??

 

I tried the same thing with her and I was eatin McD's and Burger King for like 4-5 days, lol

 

I asked "WhyTF are ya doing this to me?"

 

Guess what the answer was???

 

I friggin hate when there's a smaller dog with sharper teeth that bites in the room??

 

Sweetie, I'm kidding :)

 

All the Best,

Richard

[PGArox]

Gotta love GolfWRX. Great entertainment.

[2putttom]

I also don't get why the first thread was nuked.

One thing that I have learned about guys in my 46 years(no I don't have a thing about my age, haha. I don't look bad for 46yo :) ) is that many times a man does something because, like that doggy analogy, he can. Make no mistake, he will have a perfectly rational and plausible reason for doing so if questioned, but it comes down to the simple fact that he can. How do you tell the really big doggies? They don't even bother with a reason or excuse. They just smile and reply, "because I can." Have a nice day JM :) Madison

I tried this philosophy in my first marriage. It took three marriages to figure out I should ask first.

LMAO, Bro, she's full of ....

 

I tried the same thing with her and I was eatin McD's and Burger King for like 4-5 days, lol

 

I asked "WhyTF are ya doing this to me?"

 

Guess what the answer was???

 

I friggin hate when there's a smaller dog with sharper teeth that bites in the room

 

Sweetie, I'm kidding :)

 

All the Best,

Richard

lol Richard. I have myself a feisty lil Portuguese lady(that's her in the avatar) and she latches on for the ride.

[bladehunter]

I don't have a problem with either, but I'm not quite sure why some people are bashing autographs but think pictures are the best thing since sliced bread. Unless you're having a conversation with the golfer and some genuine interaction, you're just taking a 2 second picture with someone who has no clue who you are. I'm not sure how that is somehow that qualifies as way more genuine than getting an autograph. I guess it's cooler to look at, but if the story is "I was standing in the same spot as Phil Mickelson for 8 seconds", then I'm not sure how that has tremendous value.

 

PZero has some great stuff. I like the fact that he gets pictures and then goes back and has them signed - I'm sure the pros really appreciate that, rather than having a flag shoved in their face with the person saying screaming their name over and over until they sign.

 

 

Pictures would be better because it would I weed out the real fan from the autograph reseller who is taking up space that the real fan ( kids in this instance ) could inhabit.

[caniac6]

My father has worked at the AT&T for years. One marshall told him what a jerk Tiger was because he didn't sign an autograph for his grandson. Tiger had played a practice round that morning, and my father told me he had at least three meetings with sponsers and tournament officials that afternoon. It seems that these guys are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. It almost seems like they have to sign everything to make people happy, and if they don't, they are spoiled jerks.

[stage1350]

Comparing this incident or Jordan Spieth to Arnold Palmer is just dishonest. The King literally grew the game like no one since Bobby Jones and was the driving force in the game along with Nicklaus until Tiger Woods came along. Both Palmer and Nicklaus had huge amounts of fans that were just that: fans. And they would sign everything.

 

If I saw someone with a staff bag or some other bulky item at a tournament, I'd think "autograph seeking SCUM" and not sign it. It's far different than a kid that probably has a ball, hat, or program from the tournament.

 

I still think the solution is in personalization. Most people aren't going to pay for something signed "To Myron, Thanks! Jordan Spieth"

 

And the only reason Tiger never called them scum was that he paid Steve to do that along with breaking their cameras... :rolleyes:

[pga43]

Comparing this incident or Jordan Spieth to Arnold Palmer is just dishonest. The King literally grew the game like no one since Bobby Jones and was the driving force in the game along with Nicklaus until Tiger Woods came along. Both Palmer and Nicklaus had huge amounts of fans that were just that: fans. And they would sign everything.

 

If I saw someone with a staff bag or some other bulky item at a tournament, I'd think "autograph seeking SCUM" and not sign it. It's far different than a kid that probably has a ball, hat, or program from the tournament.

 

I still think the solution is in personalization. Most people aren't going to pay for something signed "To Myron, Thanks! Jordan Spieth"

 

And the only reason Tiger never called them scum was that he paid Steve to do that along with breaking their cameras... :rolleyes:

 

Comparing Nicklaus signing stuff to AP is dishonest. Arnold signed more then Jack ever did. Jack was closer to that era's Tiger. Didn't sign much.

 

 

Greg

[ThreePuttPar]

Contemplated not posting my thoughts on this matter because it's probably a minority opinion and will likely be flamed. First I want to separate Jordan addressing the bad language in front of kids and his comments in the press room about getting a job and making money off of what he does out on the golf course. I don't think anyone would have an issue with asking people not to use offensive language in front of kids. I have a big problem with Jordan or any pro athlete not realizing that the demand and subsequent market for autographs exists because people care about their ability to excel in their resepective sport. Jordan needs to realize that he has a job playing golf only because fans care about it. The value he gains from his talent is from fans and there is no inherent value in his ability to get a ball around a golf course, if no one cared he makes no money. So who does he think is buying those autographs on eBay? Not everyone can get in front of him in person and choose to purchase an autograph as a symbol of their appreciation of his skill and persona. When he calls the autograph seekers scum and tells them get a real job he is begrudging someone's decision on how they should make a living. To me this shows a severe lack of understanding by Jordan about the mechanics behind how he makes millions of dollars playing golf. I'm off the Spieth train. End rant.

[playa]

Lol. Had posted on the other thread that apparently is locked down. So won't rehash here except I say that before now I didn't even watch the video of what he said about it. Well after watching it all I can do is give two thumbs up and say that I absolutely agree. His take is spot on and comeback to the idiot who told him " you aren't tiger woods " was spot on. Good show Jordan. Some see it as whining. I see it as taking the low level folks to task. The reason things are like they are ( insert pet peeve "thing" here) is that nobody speaks up and does anything about it. Well glad to see someone give calling them out a go.

 

Sorry if I killed the other thread.

 

Just to add- I don't have a problem with JS calling out people on bad behavior. It's the 'get a decent job' stuff that gets me. Seems high-horse-y and awfully easy for a millionaire to say to the regular Joe. He worked hard to earn his lot, for sure, but that doesn't give him the right to judge a person as indecent scum.

 

Anywho...

Our former prime minister Paul Keating once told a lefty rentacrowd nutjob (obviously when he thought the cameras weren't rolling) to "get a job you scum bag". He caught a lot of flak from mainstream media, but the general public saw it as Keating just telling it as it is. Spieth is perfectly justified making those comments to those types of people. Pushimg kids out of the way to get signatures to flog on ebay is not a decent way to make a living. It's because of scum like them many genuine young fans don't get to meet their heros and get autographs.

[MtlJeff]

Contemplated not posting my thoughts on this matter because it's probably a minority opinion and will likely be flamed. First I want to separate Jordan addressing the bad language in front of kids and his comments in the press room about getting a job and making money off of what he does out on the golf course. I don't think anyone would have an issue with asking people not to use offensive language in front of kids. I have a big problem with Jordan or any pro athlete not realizing that the demand and subsequent market for autographs exists because people care about their ability to excel in their resepective sport. Jordan needs to realize that he has a job playing golf only because fans care about it. The value he gains from his talent is from fans and there is no inherent value in his ability to get a ball around a golf course, if no one cared he makes no money. So who does he think is buying those autographs on eBay? Not everyone can get in front of him in person and choose to purchase an autograph as a symbol of their appreciation of his skill and persona. When he calls the autograph seekers scum and tells them get a real job he is begrudging someone's decision on how they should make a living. To me this shows a severe lack of understanding by Jordan about the mechanics behind how he makes millions of dollars playing golf. I'm off the Spieth train. End rant.

 

Here's the thing, i completely agree with you when it comes to athletes appreciating fans. In fact i'll be the first to post in threads saying athletes taking fans for granted are shortsighted. The NBA ran into this problem in the post-Jordan years because their players treated fans like dirt, with some notable players openly saying they didn't care about fans. This definitely affected ratings and caused some fan bases to flat out turn on their teams. Shoe companies started scaling back deals too, the players got hosed in the labor deals etc etc....Their attitude affected their pay.

 

Yes the players ARE lucky that what they do is cared about enough. The #10 ranked squash player in the world isn't making 25M dollars a year and the fans are the difference.

 

Where i draw the line IMO is that players should appreciate the fans, but there has to be a reasonable back and forth. Signing autographs for guys to sell, is it reasonable? Bothering someone while they are out at dinner or while they are out shopping with their kids?

 

I think there has to be some reasonable things that players can push back on and not seem like they are disrespecting fans

[ThreePuttPar]

Contemplated not posting my thoughts on this matter because it's probably a minority opinion and will likely be flamed. First I want to separate Jordan addressing the bad language in front of kids and his comments in the press room about getting a job and making money off of what he does out on the golf course. I don't think anyone would have an issue with asking people not to use offensive language in front of kids. I have a big problem with Jordan or any pro athlete not realizing that the demand and subsequent market for autographs exists because people care about their ability to excel in their resepective sport. Jordan needs to realize that he has a job playing golf only because fans care about it. The value he gains from his talent is from fans and there is no inherent value in his ability to get a ball around a golf course, if no one cared he makes no money. So who does he think is buying those autographs on eBay? Not everyone can get in front of him in person and choose to purchase an autograph as a symbol of their appreciation of his skill and persona. When he calls the autograph seekers scum and tells them get a real job he is begrudging someone's decision on how they should make a living. To me this shows a severe lack of understanding by Jordan about the mechanics behind how he makes millions of dollars playing golf. I'm off the Spieth train. End rant.

 

Here's the thing, i completely agree with you when it comes to athletes appreciating fans. In fact i'll be the first to post in threads saying athletes taking fans for granted are shortsighted. The NBA ran into this problem in the post-Jordan years because their players treated fans like dirt, with some notable players openly saying they didn't care about fans. This definitely affected ratings and caused some fan bases to flat out turn on their teams. Shoe companies started scaling back deals too, the players got hosed in the labor deals etc etc....Their attitude affected their pay.

 

Yes the players ARE lucky that what they do is cared about enough. The #10 ranked squash player in the world isn't making 25M dollars a year and the fans are the difference.

 

Where i draw the line IMO is that players should appreciate the fans, but there has to be a reasonable back and forth. Signing autographs for guys to sell, is it reasonable? Bothering someone while they are out at dinner or while they are out shopping with their kids?

 

I think there has to be some reasonable things that players can push back on and not seem like they are disrespecting fans

 

There are things that players can push back on without being disrespectful to fans. Hounding someone when they are out in public, especially with their family is one of them. Obviously the stalker and creeper types who invade the private lives is one as well. Calling people scum and telling them to get a real job when they are in a signing area at a tournament when Jordan is on the clock just rings so hollow coming from a pro athlete. I really rooted for Jordan at one time. He gives thoughtful answers during interviews and I like his interaction with his family, especially his sister. But his tone and attitude in the press room while recounting the incident really turned me off.

 

I can't remember if it was on tape or in print but I remember Arnold Palmer being asked about the secondary autograph market given how much he signed throughout his career and his answer was perfect to the effect of he hoped no fans got ripped off by fake ones and if his autograph helped someone make ends meet then so be it. I personally witnessed Arnold sign for 30 minutes from a second story balcony at the 2000 open at Pebble. The crowd below was literally throwing items up to the balcony and Arnold would catch them, smile, sign and toss the item back. He was no spring chicken and he was with his wife (she was actually helping to catch the items and seemed amused by the whole thing). Can everyone be AP, of course not but in my opinion Jordan should be a bit closer than his remarks show.

[bladehunter]

Contemplated not posting my thoughts on this matter because it's probably a minority opinion and will likely be flamed. First I want to separate Jordan addressing the bad language in front of kids and his comments in the press room about getting a job and making money off of what he does out on the golf course. I don't think anyone would have an issue with asking people not to use offensive language in front of kids. I have a big problem with Jordan or any pro athlete not realizing that the demand and subsequent market for autographs exists because people care about their ability to excel in their resepective sport. Jordan needs to realize that he has a job playing golf only because fans care about it. The value he gains from his talent is from fans and there is no inherent value in his ability to get a ball around a golf course, if no one cared he makes no money. So who does he think is buying those autographs on eBay? Not everyone can get in front of him in person and choose to purchase an autograph as a symbol of their appreciation of his skill and persona. When he calls the autograph seekers scum and tells them get a real job he is begrudging someone's decision on how they should make a living. To me this shows a severe lack of understanding by Jordan about the mechanics behind how he makes millions of dollars playing golf. I'm off the Spieth train. End rant.

 

Here's the thing, i completely agree with you when it comes to athletes appreciating fans. In fact i'll be the first to post in threads saying athletes taking fans for granted are shortsighted. The NBA ran into this problem in the post-Jordan years because their players treated fans like dirt, with some notable players openly saying they didn't care about fans. This definitely affected ratings and caused some fan bases to flat out turn on their teams. Shoe companies started scaling back deals too, the players got hosed in the labor deals etc etc....Their attitude affected their pay.

 

Yes the players ARE lucky that what they do is cared about enough. The #10 ranked squash player in the world isn't making 25M dollars a year and the fans are the difference.

 

Where i draw the line IMO is that players should appreciate the fans, but there has to be a reasonable back and forth. Signing autographs for guys to sell, is it reasonable? Bothering someone while they are out at dinner or while they are out shopping with their kids?

 

I think there has to be some reasonable things that players can push back on and not seem like they are disrespecting fans

 

There are things that players can push back on without being disrespectful to fans. Hounding someone when they are out in public, especially with their family is one of them. Obviously the stalker and creeper types who invade the private lives is one as well. Calling people scum and telling them to get a real job when they are in a signing area at a tournament when Jordan is on the clock just rings so hollow coming from a pro athlete. I really rooted for Jordan at one time. He gives thoughtful answers during interviews and I like his interaction with his family, especially his sister. But his tone and attitude in the press room while recounting the incident really turned me off.

 

I can't remember if it was on tape or in print but I remember Arnold Palmer being asked about the secondary autograph market given how much he signed throughout his career and his answer was perfect to the effect of he hoped no fans got ripped off by fake ones and if his autograph helped someone make ends meet then so be it. I personally witnessed Arnold sign for 30 minutes from a second story balcony at the 2000 open at Pebble. The crowd below was literally throwing items up to the balcony and Arnold would catch them, smile, sign and toss the item back. He was no spring chicken and he was with his wife (she was actually helping to catch the items and seemed amused by the whole thing). Can everyone be AP, of course not but in my opinion Jordan should be a bit closer than his remarks show.

 

 

agree to disagree

[Peanut191]

I wonder if the guys on the side of the autograph seeker/against Jordan on this issue were rooting for the Cobra Kai when they watched the Karate Kid?

[JackpotJohnny]

These douschers capitalizing off autographs are no different than ticket scalpers, people that buy up all the iPhones at release and sell them for double, or the flippers on here or eBay.

Half the people will try to defend what they are doing and the other half can't stand it.

Good for Jordan for speaking his mind and standing up for his beliefs.

[whr]

There are things that players can push back on without being disrespectful to fans. Hounding someone when they are out in public, especially with their family is one of them. Obviously the stalker and creeper types who invade the private lives is one as well. Calling people scum and telling them to get a real job when they are in a signing area at a tournament when Jordan is on the clock just rings so hollow coming from a pro athlete. I really rooted for Jordan at one time. He gives thoughtful answers during interviews and I like his interaction with his family, especially his sister. But his tone and attitude in the press room while recounting the incident really turned me off.

 

I can't remember if it was on tape or in print but I remember Arnold Palmer being asked about the secondary autograph market given how much he signed throughout his career and his answer was perfect to the effect of he hoped no fans got ripped off by fake ones and if his autograph helped someone make ends meet then so be it. I personally witnessed Arnold sign for 30 minutes from a second story balcony at the 2000 open at Pebble. The crowd below was literally throwing items up to the balcony and Arnold would catch them, smile, sign and toss the item back. He was no spring chicken and he was with his wife (she was actually helping to catch the items and seemed amused by the whole thing). Can everyone be AP, of course not but in my opinion Jordan should be a bit closer than his remarks show.

 

 

Fans in Palmer and Nicklaus' day had class and didn't throw F-bombs at players, especially in front of kids, who didn't sign their stuff. Do you honestly think if someone did that to AP or Jack they would continue signing autographs, let alone ignore it?

 

I've seen it first hand where adults with tons of merchandise squeeze past kids, while yelling at players, just to get autographs (President's Cup). The level of class and respect has fallen dramatically among fans and players have every right to hold them accountable.

 

Jordan accurately labeled them using the term "scum," based on its definition. Spot on Jordan!

[ThreePuttPar]

There are things that players can push back on without being disrespectful to fans. Hounding someone when they are out in public, especially with their family is one of them. Obviously the stalker and creeper types who invade the private lives is one as well. Calling people scum and telling them to get a real job when they are in a signing area at a tournament when Jordan is on the clock just rings so hollow coming from a pro athlete. I really rooted for Jordan at one time. He gives thoughtful answers during interviews and I like his interaction with his family, especially his sister. But his tone and attitude in the press room while recounting the incident really turned me off.

 

I can't remember if it was on tape or in print but I remember Arnold Palmer being asked about the secondary autograph market given how much he signed throughout his career and his answer was perfect to the effect of he hoped no fans got ripped off by fake ones and if his autograph helped someone make ends meet then so be it. I personally witnessed Arnold sign for 30 minutes from a second story balcony at the 2000 open at Pebble. The crowd below was literally throwing items up to the balcony and Arnold would catch them, smile, sign and toss the item back. He was no spring chicken and he was with his wife (she was actually helping to catch the items and seemed amused by the whole thing). Can everyone be AP, of course not but in my opinion Jordan should be a bit closer than his remarks show.

 

 

Fans in Palmer and Nicklaus' day had class and didn't throw F-bombs at players, especially in front of kids, who didn't sign their stuff. Do you honestly think if someone did that to AP or Jack they would continue signing autographs, let alone ignore it?

 

I've seen it first hand where adults with tons of merchandise squeeze past kids, while yelling at players, just to get autographs (President's Cup). The level of class and respect has fallen dramatically among fans and players have every right to hold them accountable.

 

Jordan accurately labeled them using the term "scum," based on its definition. Spot on Jordan!

 

Like I said in my original post I feel mine is a minority opinion an expect most to disagree. I do reject the blanket statement that fans in Jack and Arnold's era had more class especially relative to the social norms of then vs today. Much of the regular antics of Arnie's Army would get you kicked out of any tournament today. I am not saying the professional autograph seekers and dealers are model citizens by any stretch but many of them are just blokes trying to carve out a living. They exist because there is demand for what they sell. That demand is driven by fans. Jordan saying that he begrudges people making money off of what he does on the golf course shows a lack of understanding of the market that allows him to make a living as a golfer.

[whr]

.

[whr]

There are things that players can push back on without being disrespectful to fans. Hounding someone when they are out in public, especially with their family is one of them. Obviously the stalker and creeper types who invade the private lives is one as well. Calling people scum and telling them to get a real job when they are in a signing area at a tournament when Jordan is on the clock just rings so hollow coming from a pro athlete. I really rooted for Jordan at one time. He gives thoughtful answers during interviews and I like his interaction with his family, especially his sister. But his tone and attitude in the press room while recounting the incident really turned me off.

 

I can't remember if it was on tape or in print but I remember Arnold Palmer being asked about the secondary autograph market given how much he signed throughout his career and his answer was perfect to the effect of he hoped no fans got ripped off by fake ones and if his autograph helped someone make ends meet then so be it. I personally witnessed Arnold sign for 30 minutes from a second story balcony at the 2000 open at Pebble. The crowd below was literally throwing items up to the balcony and Arnold would catch them, smile, sign and toss the item back. He was no spring chicken and he was with his wife (she was actually helping to catch the items and seemed amused by the whole thing). Can everyone be AP, of course not but in my opinion Jordan should be a bit closer than his remarks show.

 

 

Fans in Palmer and Nicklaus' day had class and didn't throw F-bombs at players, especially in front of kids, who didn't sign their stuff. Do you honestly think if someone did that to AP or Jack they would continue signing autographs, let alone ignore it?

 

I've seen it first hand where adults with tons of merchandise squeeze past kids, while yelling at players, just to get autographs (President's Cup). The level of class and respect has fallen dramatically among fans and players have every right to hold them accountable.

 

Jordan accurately labeled them using the term "scum," based on its definition. Spot on Jordan!

 

Like I said in my original post I feel mine is a minority opinion an expect most to disagree. I do reject the blanket statement that fans in Jack and Arnold's era had more class especially relative to the social norms of then vs today. Much of the regular antics of Arnie's Army would get you kicked out of any tournament today. I am not saying the professional autograph seekers and dealers are model citizens by any stretch but many of them are just blokes trying to carve out a living. They exist because there is demand for what they sell. That demand is driven by fans. Jordan saying that he begrudges people making money off of what he does on the golf course shows a lack of understanding of the market that allows him to make a living as a golfer.

 

If these blokes actually make a living off his likeness, they should know better. Jordan owes people who disrespect and insult him nothing. Period.

 

Add in the hysteria that leads to kids getting smothered, I have zero problems with the way he handled the situation. These types of people need to be held accountable.

 

I'm also curious, what antics did Arnie's Army have that would be comparable to this? I certainly don't remember F-bombs being thrown at players for autographs, let alone the constant personal insults fans cast at players during tournaments (i.e. Rory - Ryder Cup, Matsuyama - WM).

 

What's that Bob Dylan song - The Times They are A-Changin' ---- indeed.

 

Then again, I guess we're at the point in society where people defend those who physically push kids out of the way for an autograph.....because they need to make a living, right?!

[rangersgoalie]

You know, I basically expected nobody to want my autograph. Hell, I had family members that didn't know I played.

 

I was happy to sign when someone asked, but let's face it, I wasn't in high demand!!

 

I remember a couple times after rounds in the fall though. I played decently and there were a decent number of people

Lined up for autographs. When I signed my card, I literally had about a half hour of daylight left, and as I exited the tent, there were too many people to start signing if I wanted to practice before dark.

I told the people I had to practice, and promise to come back. That was met by some amazingly nasty responses, and one kid calling me an a******. My hockey upbringing helped here, and I just looked at the offenders and laughed, which elevated their hostility.

 

I went and practiced until dark, and made my way back to 18 before going to the locker room. There were still a few stragglers that I signed for, including one of the jerks, who said nothing, but pulled a couple of trading cards out of his bag for me to sign. Not a pleasantly, or a thanks, he was truly a knob.

 

I signed Skip Breakfast on the second card, he never even looked. I'd bet anything he was a collector/seller trying to complete the set.

So if you find a Skip Breakfast card with my face on it, it's a one of a kind!!

[Joe85]

There are things that players can push back on without being disrespectful to fans. Hounding someone when they are out in public, especially with their family is one of them. Obviously the stalker and creeper types who invade the private lives is one as well. Calling people scum and telling them to get a real job when they are in a signing area at a tournament when Jordan is on the clock just rings so hollow coming from a pro athlete. I really rooted for Jordan at one time. He gives thoughtful answers during interviews and I like his interaction with his family, especially his sister. But his tone and attitude in the press room while recounting the incident really turned me off.

 

I can't remember if it was on tape or in print but I remember Arnold Palmer being asked about the secondary autograph market given how much he signed throughout his career and his answer was perfect to the effect of he hoped no fans got ripped off by fake ones and if his autograph helped someone make ends meet then so be it. I personally witnessed Arnold sign for 30 minutes from a second story balcony at the 2000 open at Pebble. The crowd below was literally throwing items up to the balcony and Arnold would catch them, smile, sign and toss the item back. He was no spring chicken and he was with his wife (she was actually helping to catch the items and seemed amused by the whole thing). Can everyone be AP, of course not but in my opinion Jordan should be a bit closer than his remarks show.

 

 

Fans in Palmer and Nicklaus' day had class and didn't throw F-bombs at players, especially in front of kids, who didn't sign their stuff. Do you honestly think if someone did that to AP or Jack they would continue signing autographs, let alone ignore it?

 

I've seen it first hand where adults with tons of merchandise squeeze past kids, while yelling at players, just to get autographs (President's Cup). The level of class and respect has fallen dramatically among fans and players have every right to hold them accountable.

 

Jordan accurately labeled them using the term "scum," based on its definition. Spot on Jordan!

 

Like I said in my original post I feel mine is a minority opinion an expect most to disagree. I do reject the blanket statement that fans in Jack and Arnold's era had more class especially relative to the social norms of then vs today. Much of the regular antics of Arnie's Army would get you kicked out of any tournament today. I am not saying the professional autograph seekers and dealers are model citizens by any stretch but many of them are just blokes trying to carve out a living. They exist because there is demand for what they sell. That demand is driven by fans. Jordan saying that he begrudges people making money off of what he does on the golf course shows a lack of understanding of the market that allows him to make a living as a golfer.

 

I've alluded to this before - honestly, IF there is money to be made I don't think there is much there to be made at all. My jersey example was a perfect one. Maybe I'm naive or I just didn't get into autographing as a living enough or something, but from my personal experience there is hardly anything to make in that niche if there is anything to be made at all.

 

People keep insinuating that in this thread and I think it's highly naive by some of you.

 

If these blokes actually make a living off his likeness, they should know better. Jordan owes people who disrespect and insult him nothing. Period.

 

Add in the hysteria that leads to kids getting smothered, I have zero problems with the way he handled the situation. These types of people need to be held accountable.

 

I'm also curious, what antics did Arnie's Army have that would be comparable to this? I certainly don't remember F-bombs being thrown at players for autographs, let alone the constant personal insults fans cast at players during tournaments (i.e. Rory - Ryder Cup, Matsuyama - WM).

 

What's that Bob Dylan song - The Times They are A-Changin' ---- indeed.

 

Then again, I guess we're at the point in society where people defend those who physically push kids out of the way for an autograph.....because they need to make a living, right?!

 

 

They are changing indeed. The newer generations (in America in particular) are a funny bunch. SJWs left and right. Morally self-righteous to a T, in their minds.

[Joe85]

The comics around here (comics in their own minds, at that) are brutally bad. You people aren't comics, and the only people here laughing are laughing AT you, not with you.

[sphna12d]

Seriously what is the point of having somebody's signature on a piece of paper. I would love to borrow their games for an afternoon but I'll never understand paying money online for a signature that means nothing personally to you because you had no personal connection to the celebrity when it was signed. The secondary market must exist if people are going through the trouble of collecting the signatures but I'll never figure out what the buyer is getting out of it. I would love the personal connection of meeting these guys and complementing them on their games but I wouldn't want or require a signature to validate that meeting. Getting a signature without the personal connection is worthless imo.

[bladehunter]

There are things that players can push back on without being disrespectful to fans. Hounding someone when they are out in public, especially with their family is one of them. Obviously the stalker and creeper types who invade the private lives is one as well. Calling people scum and telling them to get a real job when they are in a signing area at a tournament when Jordan is on the clock just rings so hollow coming from a pro athlete. I really rooted for Jordan at one time. He gives thoughtful answers during interviews and I like his interaction with his family, especially his sister. But his tone and attitude in the press room while recounting the incident really turned me off.

 

I can't remember if it was on tape or in print but I remember Arnold Palmer being asked about the secondary autograph market given how much he signed throughout his career and his answer was perfect to the effect of he hoped no fans got ripped off by fake ones and if his autograph helped someone make ends meet then so be it. I personally witnessed Arnold sign for 30 minutes from a second story balcony at the 2000 open at Pebble. The crowd below was literally throwing items up to the balcony and Arnold would catch them, smile, sign and toss the item back. He was no spring chicken and he was with his wife (she was actually helping to catch the items and seemed amused by the whole thing). Can everyone be AP, of course not but in my opinion Jordan should be a bit closer than his remarks show.

 

 

Fans in Palmer and Nicklaus' day had class and didn't throw F-bombs at players, especially in front of kids, who didn't sign their stuff. Do you honestly think if someone did that to AP or Jack they would continue signing autographs, let alone ignore it?

 

I've seen it first hand where adults with tons of merchandise squeeze past kids, while yelling at players, just to get autographs (President's Cup). The level of class and respect has fallen dramatically among fans and players have every right to hold them accountable.

 

Jordan accurately labeled them using the term "scum," based on its definition. Spot on Jordan!

 

Like I said in my original post I feel mine is a minority opinion an expect most to disagree. I do reject the blanket statement that fans in Jack and Arnold's era had more class especially relative to the social norms of then vs today. Much of the regular antics of Arnie's Army would get you kicked out of any tournament today. I am not saying the professional autograph seekers and dealers are model citizens by any stretch but many of them are just blokes trying to carve out a living. They exist because there is demand for what they sell. That demand is driven by fans. Jordan saying that he begrudges people making money off of what he does on the golf course shows a lack of understanding of the market that allows him to make a living as a golfer.

 

 

 

the connection that you are describing is such a far and thin connection that its nearly non existant... If not another fan got another autograph it wouldnt dry up the ability for pro golfers to earn what they earn...

 

Furthermore if not another autograph reseller got another signature then nobody anywhere would notice.... prices for those autographs may rise a touch but that would also mean re-sale value for those who decide to sell an autograph they no longer display would be good. it would make for a more healthy market ,and therfore possibly make an autograph actually worth something .....

[bladehunter]

There are things that players can push back on without being disrespectful to fans. Hounding someone when they are out in public, especially with their family is one of them. Obviously the stalker and creeper types who invade the private lives is one as well. Calling people scum and telling them to get a real job when they are in a signing area at a tournament when Jordan is on the clock just rings so hollow coming from a pro athlete. I really rooted for Jordan at one time. He gives thoughtful answers during interviews and I like his interaction with his family, especially his sister. But his tone and attitude in the press room while recounting the incident really turned me off.

 

I can't remember if it was on tape or in print but I remember Arnold Palmer being asked about the secondary autograph market given how much he signed throughout his career and his answer was perfect to the effect of he hoped no fans got ripped off by fake ones and if his autograph helped someone make ends meet then so be it. I personally witnessed Arnold sign for 30 minutes from a second story balcony at the 2000 open at Pebble. The crowd below was literally throwing items up to the balcony and Arnold would catch them, smile, sign and toss the item back. He was no spring chicken and he was with his wife (she was actually helping to catch the items and seemed amused by the whole thing). Can everyone be AP, of course not but in my opinion Jordan should be a bit closer than his remarks show.

 

 

Fans in Palmer and Nicklaus' day had class and didn't throw F-bombs at players, especially in front of kids, who didn't sign their stuff. Do you honestly think if someone did that to AP or Jack they would continue signing autographs, let alone ignore it?

 

I've seen it first hand where adults with tons of merchandise squeeze past kids, while yelling at players, just to get autographs (President's Cup). The level of class and respect has fallen dramatically among fans and players have every right to hold them accountable.

 

Jordan accurately labeled them using the term "scum," based on its definition. Spot on Jordan!

 

Like I said in my original post I feel mine is a minority opinion an expect most to disagree. I do reject the blanket statement that fans in Jack and Arnold's era had more class especially relative to the social norms of then vs today. Much of the regular antics of Arnie's Army would get you kicked out of any tournament today. I am not saying the professional autograph seekers and dealers are model citizens by any stretch but many of them are just blokes trying to carve out a living. They exist because there is demand for what they sell. That demand is driven by fans. Jordan saying that he begrudges people making money off of what he does on the golf course shows a lack of understanding of the market that allows him to make a living as a golfer.

 

I've alluded to this before - honestly, IF there is money to be made I don't think there is much there to be made at all. My jersey example was a perfect one. Maybe I'm naive or I just didn't get into autographing as a living enough or something, but from my personal experience there is hardly anything to make in that niche if there is anything to be made at all.

 

People keep insinuating that in this thread and I think it's highly naive by some of you.

 

If these blokes actually make a living off his likeness, they should know better. Jordan owes people who disrespect and insult him nothing. Period.

 

Add in the hysteria that leads to kids getting smothered, I have zero problems with the way he handled the situation. These types of people need to be held accountable.

 

I'm also curious, what antics did Arnie's Army have that would be comparable to this? I certainly don't remember F-bombs being thrown at players for autographs, let alone the constant personal insults fans cast at players during tournaments (i.e. Rory - Ryder Cup, Matsuyama - WM).

 

What's that Bob Dylan song - The Times They are A-Changin' ---- indeed.

 

Then again, I guess we're at the point in society where people defend those who physically push kids out of the way for an autograph.....because they need to make a living, right?!

 

 

They are changing indeed. The newer generations (in America in particular) are a funny bunch. SJWs left and right. Morally self-righteous to a T, in their minds.

 

 

if there is no money to be made then why are there groups of pros at every event , some regionnally recognozed as regulars , hawking autographs for resale ? there is money to be made...i have no idea why your jersey didnt sell , but these guys are making money off this or they wouldnt do it

[bladehunter]

The comics around here (comics in their own minds, at that) are brutally bad. You people aren't comics, and the only people here laughing are laughing AT you, not with you.

 

 

who are you refering to ? if its Rangergoalie be careful..he isnt joking , hes teling a true story ...

[SurfDuffer]

I think as long as I live I will not understand the attraction of an autograph to an adult.

 

My youngest is into drag racing and we have went to the pits and he has had a few things signed and he thinks it is cool that he got to meet a driver and talk with them a second or two.

There are adults in these lines waiting to get stuff signed and I always wonder what they are thinking.

 

Truth right there. I've been around some famous people and hall of fame athletes. Some are just normal people and some are word not alloweds cause it went to their head. They are just people like you and me. The autograph thing has always seemed odd to me.