How long until we see the first 40 degree wedge???

[North Butte]

I still don't understand why the loft thing is so controversial. Perhaps someone can explain it to me?

 

It's the idea of it someone out there thinks he hits his 7-iron longer than he really does. So he needs us to put him in his place and tell him what's really what.

 

I just love seeing a guy get all butthurt because he played golf with someone whose pitching wedge was stronger than his own. Invariably this guy will claim that the other guy with the "Jacked" wedge must have some sort of ego problem or else he would play with weaker lofts.

 

Pretty clear with whom the ego problem resides...

 

 

[BForrester]

For people saying "it doesn't matter what's stamped on the club", you do realize if they make a 40° PW that the set will cascade downward to a 16° 3i right? As many posts as I see with people who can't hit a 3 wood off the deck, I can't imagine that same person gaining success from a 16° 3i in the same situation. Despite how much tungsten they throw in the a** of that club

 

So I think the OP is right. Even if you did 5-P which would be something like 3-8, you'd have to stack wedges on the bottom of your bag.

 

A set with a 40 PW isn't likely to be marketed at someone who would buy a set with a 3i in the first place. That sounds like a 4h, 5-AW set if I've ever seen one.

[vman]

14 clubs and the choice is all yours. That's the way I see it. Whatever you want to use, just get your gapping where you want it.

[dlygrisse]

This inconsistency will keep getting out of control as long as consumers keep going crazy over "more distance." Even on the PGA Tour broadcasts they like to highlight that Dustin Johnson hit a PW 180 yards in Mexico or Bubba hit Driver 8 iron into 13 at Augusta. They don't, however, highlight the lofts of the clubs or tthe type of shot they hit. Club companies have taken the shortcut of just stamping an 8 as a 9 the next model. I've been shocked to look at lofts of my irons from 10 years ago and now.

 

I'm pretty sure DJ and bubba hit 46-48* pitching wedges.... they both play more traditional lofted irons

 

Traditional? Traditional loft on a PW is 52*. You are talking about early 2000's specs.

[NRJyzr]

I still don't understand why the loft thing is so controversial. Perhaps someone can explain it to me?

 

It's the idea of it someone out there thinks he hits his 7-iron longer than he really does. So he needs us to put him in his place and tell him what's really what.

 

I just love seeing a guy get all butthurt because he played golf with someone whose pitching wedge was stronger than his own. Invariably this guy will claim that the other guy with the "Jacked" wedge must have some sort of ego problem or else he would play with weaker lofts.

 

Pretty clear with whom the ego problem resides...

 

I used to play in a golf league about a dozen years ago. There was a guy in the league who didn't understand why he was hitting the same or even less club as I was on par 3 holes, but I was longer than him off the tee. I was playing Golden Rams with a 50° PW, he was playing the original King Cobras.

 

I pointed out the loft of his PW was essentially the same as my 8 iron. His response was "yeah, but..." He still didn't get it.

 

That's why loft creep exists. :)

[goph3r]

Three words, uncured crispy bacon. mmmmmm this stuff is good.

 

Lately ive been watching some of the old jack nicklaus matches on YouTube from back in 1988 to 95. It's interesting to see them playing the old technology but it's still the same game that it is today. Same problems, similar scores, just different clubs and better attitudes. If you haven't watched some of these matches, I encourage anyone to check them out. If anything, just the Toyota commercials alone crack me up.

 

 

[PaulCar65]

If someone asks you what club you hit, simply say for example, "My 145 yard club." :-)

This is what I do.

[riehlg]

If someone asks you what club you hit, simply say for example, "My 145 yard club." :-)

That's the benefit of playing with people who don't brag about what club they're hitting. My best friend we know delofts his clubs a bunch and thus usually hits a club less than my brother and I. We'll ask which club each other hit just to give a gauge for what club we should be hitting sometimes. Especially if we're battling some wind.

[Boney]

I still don't understand why the loft thing is so controversial. Perhaps someone can explain it to me?

 

I never ask what clubs anyone else hits, but the "jacked lofts" thing does bug me. Because it's deceitful. You hear excuses for it from the manufacturers, but like Tom Wishon, I don't buy them. To make the lower lofts possible, people are being sold sets with 2-3° gaps in the long irons, and 5-6° gaps in the scoring irons, which is crazy. That makes the long irons way too similar in performance for a player with a lower swing speed or inconsistent contact -- which is probably something like 80% of all golfers. Or they make the "pitching wedge" so low in loft that golfers need to buy extra clubs, which adds confusion and extra cost. The manufacturers know most sales are made by people demoing a single 7- or 6-iron, and so they make that club hit the ball farther to prey on people's emotions. They know 95% of their customers won't chart the gaps for the whole set and realize the compromises they're making for that 7-iron they hit "so much farther" than their current club. It is not done to help golfers at all, it is done to make money, period, and I find that sad.

[ealdjim]

I have one of those before / after (mid 90's) charts in front of me that shows the creeping lofts of some 20 years ago. Prior to the mid 90's a standard 7 iron was 40-41 degrees, + or - 1 depending on the manufacturer.

Since then, "modern irons" are such that 40 degrees is essentially a 9 iron. ( again, plus or minus a degree).

 

Some of my friends still don't understand the loft-creep that occurred back then and think they are so much longer than I am when I have to hit a 7 where they've hit "only" a 9. IT'S THE SAME CLUB!

 

So in reality we do not need a 40 degree "wedge" - it's your 9 iron, if you're playing irons made since about 1995! (again, give or take a degree), Of course manufactures will do anything to create a need where there is none.

It's all about marketing and sales, so that guys who bought later than (about) 1995 could say "WOW, I hit my irons so much farther than I used to." (comparing # to #) - they really don't.

[Sean2]

I still don't understand why the loft thing is so controversial. Perhaps someone can explain it to me?

 

It's the idea of it someone out there thinks he hits his 7-iron longer than he really does. So he needs us to put him in his place and tell him what's really what.

 

I just love seeing a guy get all butthurt because he played golf with someone whose pitching wedge was stronger than his own. Invariably this guy will claim that the other guy with the "Jacked" wedge must have some sort of ego problem or else he would play with weaker lofts.

 

Pretty clear with whom the ego problem resides...

 

I suspected it was simply an ego thing. I play with a gentleman whose irons are stronger than mine. He hits his 6-iron longer than I hit mine. I don't care, and neither does the scorecard. :-)

 

And, the vast majority of golfers have no idea the lofts are jacked, they just know that purchasing those new irons was a great investment because are at least a club longer now. The OEM's can claim their irons are longer than the buyer's previous irons...and they are right! They just don't tell the public that the lofts are stronger, and the clubs are longer.

 

I think the OEMs should come out with a set of clubs that are all wedges, starting at 23º of loft. That way the golfer can say he hits a wedge into every green.

[NRJyzr]

Over the winter, I've been thinking about reshafting my set of Golden Rams. Since they also need L&L check, and likely adjustment, I've also thought of going with a 20° 2 iron to a 52° PW, and adding a 58° on top of that. Maybe add a 1 iron at 17°. <shrug> It's not too far off their original specs, which I think were 20/30/50 for 2i/5i/pw.

 

And this thread shows up. LOL

 

Might be entertaining hitting just inside the 125 marker and still hitting a club with a number on the sole.

 

Would be even better then taking my 90s Rams to close to their original spec, going 20-48 for 3-pw, and alternating the sets. Just think in terms of lofts, LOL

 

The stupid things that come to mind when the weather won't let you play golf....

[cgasucks]

This inconsistency will keep getting out of control as long as consumers keep going crazy over "more distance." Even on the PGA Tour broadcasts they like to highlight that Dustin Johnson hit a PW 180 yards in Mexico or Bubba hit Driver 8 iron into 13 at Augusta. They don't, however, highlight the lofts of the clubs or tthe type of shot they hit. Club companies have taken the shortcut of just stamping an 8 as a 9 the next model. I've been shocked to look at lofts of my irons from 10 years ago and now.

 

I'm pretty sure DJ and bubba hit 46-48* pitching wedges.... they both play more traditional lofted irons

 

Traditional? Traditional loft on a PW is 52*. You are talking about early 2000's specs.

 

True...My 1988 845s with a 48 deg PW are like TM Burner 2.0s compared to my 1971 Wilson Staff Button Backs...

[Lefty1775]

I like hitting 7-iron, so how about a set of all 7-irons? For example:

26° JGR Hybrid Forged 7i

30° Callaway Steelhead XR 7i

34° Callaway Apex Pro 16 7i

38° MacGregor FC4000 7i (measured)

44° Louisville T. Stewart 7i

 

Then maybe three wedges stamped "S" to cover the range from 50°-60° or so, and two or three 5-woods...

I wish that was a custom option when ordering a set online

[dabud]

Lofts do keep getting stronger but at the end of the day, if you know how far you hit each club. That's all you need to know.

 

I guess as long as we all want to hit an 8 iron 180 yArdsley, the will keep making them stronger too

 

My Calloway 2009 xforged is 47 degrees, my old staff fg-51 was 48. Maybe 49 and somehow I was able to score with it

 

[60degreelobwedge]

Last year I hit my grandpa's old set from the 60's. The 9 iron was probably 50 degrees and the 1 iron couldn't have been much less than 20 degrees. The entire set was playable. The worse thing about the strong lofts today is you can't play half the set and need to replace them with hybrids and buy a bunch of aftermarket wedges.

[g8a_golf]

My current J15cb's have quite strong lofts like a 28 degree 6 iron and a 41 degree 9. The difference is, I know this vs the average Joe. But let me tell you, I went from the j33cb's to these with the same shafts and the beefier sole sends the ball straight up into the air. If the lofts were not stronger, I'd hit these over skyscrapers. What I'm getting at is that they keep adding weight and heft in the right places that send the ball up and yes the lofts are stronger so you think they're amazing but they're also stronger because they need to keep the ball out of the stratosphere.

 

It is nice hitting a smooth 6 iron 200 though lol

[MtlJeff]

it's probably been said but i don't care what number is on the bottom as long as they go from around 22 degrees to around 50 degrees. I could have 8 pitching wedges if that's what they want to call them

[North Butte]

it's probably been said but i don't care what number is on the bottom as long as they go from around 22 degrees to around 50 degrees. I could have 8 pitching wedges if that's what they want to call them

 

My Titleist DCI and Vokey wedge lofts from 20 years ago:

22

25

28

32

36

40

44.5

49

54

60

 

My Ping G irons and wedges:

21

24

27

30.5

35

40

45

50

54

58

 

I'll tell you this. That 21-degree Ping G is a heck of a lot easier to get up in the air and hit straight than the 22-degree Titleist in the same "slot" back then. It also goes about 8 yards farther.

 

Either way it's 10 clubs to cover the entire distance spectrum from the longest iron shots I can hit to lob wedge distance. The only difference is the height, straightness and forgiveness.

[playa]

This inconsistency will keep getting out of control as long as consumers keep going crazy over "more distance." Even on the PGA Tour broadcasts they like to highlight that Dustin Johnson hit a PW 180 yards in Mexico or Bubba hit Driver 8 iron into 13 at Augusta. They don't, however, highlight the lofts of the clubs or the type of shot they hit. Club companies have taken the shortcut of just stamping an 8 as a 9 the next model. I've been shocked to look at lofts of my irons from 10 years ago and now.

Tiger was hitting pw into 13 or 15 at Augusta (don't remember which), in 1997.

 

The 97 Masters telecast made particular mention of what Tiger was hitting in to several holes, and compared it to what Jack was hitting when he shot 64 in the 65 Masters.

 

It came up in another thread, I saved an image of it:

From seeing that I think it was 15 where he hit pw one day as they mention of '6 iron today' on a later day. Just watched it again and the anouncer said pitching wedge from 151 yards on 15 on day 1. He hit 8 iron from 171 on 13 and pw on 15 on day 2. Unbelieveable for 1997 with old equipment and wound ball. Imagine that Tiger with modern gear?

[Pomps]

There are many players that I have played with, some with handicaps and some without, but all that buy clubs and have no idea what iron lofts are or that they could be different. It's easy to fool this person into thinking they now hit their 8 iron 160 and having no clue their 8 iron is 33* or even what that means.

[Benflicky]

Who cares though

[tap in birdie]

In these times of high launch low spin irons companies are making to gain more 'distance' how long until we see the first 40* pitching wedge and have to buy 3 gap wedges?

 

Titleist aleady have a 43* pitching wedge and their sets can be order with 2 gap wedges 47* and 51*

 

Manufacturers are now making the 4 iron a thing of the past with their 23* 5 irons

 

At this rate I think we'll see it as early as 2020

 

Call up taylormade. They'll probably release them during mid June when they're already selling M9 clubs...smh

[tap in birdie]

Who cares though

 

Traditionalists.. I'm not one but I know they're out there.

 

What gets me is that they use jacked lofts as a marketing scheme. "Hit your 8 iron as far as your old 7 iron'...because it is your old 7 iron with shiny cheap plastic.

 

 

[DaveGoodrich]

.... The worse thing about the strong lofts today is you can't play half the set and need to replace them with hybrids and buy a bunch of aftermarket wedges.

 

This is the real issue that isn't answered by folks saying "it doesn't matter what the number on the iron is, only the loft." On "jacked" sets, the 3 and 4 are both going to be pretty useless for most players, and the 5 will most likely be around 25 degrees, which is a big ask for many. And the gap wedge may be 48 degrees, which could require adding another wedge, depending on the players short game style/preferences. So even if you buy a 4-AW set, you still may need to buy two or three hybrids and a wedge to cover your distances. Just dumb, imo.

 

I'd be fine with the "label them however you want" argument, as long as that means the iron set will cover the ~24 - 50 degree range of lofts with about 4 degrees between the irons. You know it's messed up when you have 5 or 6 degrees between the short irons and 2 degrees between the long irons.

[Sean2]

If someone asks you what club you hit, simply say for example, "My 145 yard club." :-)

That's the benefit of playing with people who don't brag about what club they're hitting. My best friend we know delofts his clubs a bunch and thus usually hits a club less than my brother and I. We'll ask which club each other hit just to give a gauge for what club we should be hitting sometimes. Especially if we're battling some wind.

 

Not always, but for the most part, bragging is a way for people to feel good about themselves...to me it's a sign of insecurity (and I am not talking about having a conversation with a close friend). OEM's play on that too, by promising more distance with their clubs. And the promise is legit as the clubs are longer and the lofts are stronger.

 

The scorecard doesn't care what club a golfer hits, the scorecard cares how many strokes the golfer uses over an 18 hole stretch.

[Boney]

Five years later...

The Cobra LTDx irons have a 41.5° pitching wedge, a 47.5° gap wedge, and a 54° sand wedge -- giving gaps of 6° and 6.5° between wedges. The gap between 4- and 5-iron is 2°, and 3° to the 6-iron.

In other words, the gap between 4-iron and 8-iron is the same as the gap between PW and SW.

[Blaiser]

It's been said before in this thread, but why does it matter?

 

The way I see it, if golfers enjoy the game more because they are happy with the number on the bottom of their club, then good for them. Glad they are happy.

 

If a golfer gets their panties in a bunch over another golfer being happy about the number on their club....well then I don't know what to tell ya. It's not affecting you in the least.

 

 

Personally, I don't care if they stamp a picture of a d*** on my club. If it flies where I want it to, then I'm happy.

[Boney]

42 minutes ago, Blaiser said:

It's been said before in this thread, but why does it matter?

I don't care, as long as the gaps are consistent. Although it's a little annoying having a pitching wedge, 2 gap wedges, a sand wedge, and a lob wedge -- but I'll probably refer to those by loft anyway.

What really annoying is that you've got 6 or 8 yard gaps between the long irons, and 20 yard gaps between the wedges. And what's even more annoying is that most amateurs aren't consistent enough to even know their gaps are off. And what's even more annoying is that the manufacturers count on this, and they don't care that they're selling a set that is poorly set up, as long as they get people excited about how far they can hit a 7-iron.

It matters.

[mosesgolf]

I remember my first round playing irons with jackup up lofts.  I used to think all pw were the same.  I remember flying the green with a pw and going wtf jist happened.   Just for reference Mizuno MP 14 PW is 50*.