Perplexed. Was I Wrong?

[Richardcabeeza]

I'll try to give all the facts as best I can and I'd like some thoughts on this as I think I ran into a complete jerk, but I also want to know what the rule is for this situation.

 

Anyways, played a round the other day with my kids and my dad. We were neither pushing the group in front of us nor waiting. A good comfortable 4ish hour round pace for a foursome. It was very windy and I generally hit the ball way up in the air so my ball is greatly impacted by wind. For example, 7 was into the teeth of it and my tee ball was just over 100 yards shorter than my tee ball on 8 which was directly downwind-both struck equally solid.

 

On the tee at 8 (a fairly short par 4) we waited a minute or two for the group in front to get on the green. My kids and my dad hit first and the group ahead was putting. I knew that with this hole being directly downwind that if I absolutely pured one, with the ground being as hard as it was, there was a chance that I could MAYBE roll one onto it. I knew (by confirming the distance via GPS) that I absolutely could not fly one onto it no matter how well I struck the ball, and that any ball rolling onto it would have to bounce and roll a good 30 or more yards. As luck would have it I did hit it perfect. I've played this course probably 500 times and I've never been on this green in one. For one, the wind was blowing opposite of the norm and two, the ground was rock hard. So I watch my ball and it lands a minimum of 30 yards shy of the green but aided by those factors it bounces and rolls towards the green. I have no idea where it ended up, but it was somewhere on the front of the green. I know this because one of the guys in the group in front of us walked (several steps, leading me to believe that I was on the front of the green) towards us, yelled something that I wouldn't repeat in the presence of a demon, then proceeds to pick up my ball and throw it into the lake that guards the right side of the green. What? Why?

 

I'll grant that I probably should have waited until they were off the green but I knew that at the absolute best that my ball might roll onto the green. Even under those conditions it was probably less than 10% that my ball would roll onto it. They were not in any danger whatsoever. I knew beyond any doubt that I couldn't fly the ball into them. I'm not going to post the distance but there was no chance of it. I've only ever hit a green with people on it once before and that time was under similar circumstances (except that one was a blind green) and I hit a great tee shot with all conditions being perfect for me to get on. On that one I drove up to the green thinking I'd be a little short. I wasn't and after I apologized profusely they all congratulated me.

 

We were not pushing nor pressuring the group in front of us at all. We were playing at their pace and if we waited it wasn't long at all. So was I in the wrong here? Also what would possess someone to throw my ball in the lake? I could understand if I'd flown it into them. I didn't nor did it even fully make it to them. My other question then is, how do you play that? I wasn't playing a round for score so I just put one down on the front of the green, if anything I was further back than what I was initially. I would think the rule would be to replace it as near as possible but since I was on the tee when he did it I just made my best guess but no nearer the hole than it possibly could have been.

 

What's sort of funny is about 5 holes later the same guy that did this drove his cart back towards us. I was thinking "oh great here we go" but he asked us if we'd seen his wedge. I told him no (truthfully even) but then told him that if I did I'd be sure to send it to meet my ball. He just shook his head, muttered a bunch of four letter words, and drove off.

[95124hacker]

My motto is better to be safe than sorry. I would've waited until the green was clear and they were walking/driving away.

[Thunderfist]

You would not have hit the green if they were not there. If your confidence is high that you won't get them on the fly go for it. The justification was proven correct when he had to come back and ask for his club.

[AdamSecrest]

The guy was a jerk but I think you should have waited. 30 yards seems a lot closer when a ball hit from distance lands. They only heard it land and then saw it bouncing toward them. So I think their (from your account inaccurate) perspective from hearing it land is that it could have hit me. You played it correctly replacing it as close as possible to where it was picked up.

[TheGeekGolfer]

Why did be throw your ball in the lake? Maybe he missed a putt for his only birdie or possibly eagle himself when your ball rolled up. You were in the wrong, you hit onto a green you were trying to drive onto. No matter the odds, you thought you had a chance. It was your fault.

[Mudguard]

I would've pretended not to see them toss your ball in the lake, then spend ten minutes looking either side of the fairway 30m short in feigned ignorance.

Tough call. If you've never knocked it on before I probably wouldn't have thought twice. If you'd got hole high a few times then maybe wait. My old home course had a similar first hole. If you played in the afternoon, or the back nine first and were warmed up you could trickle one on there. I never saw anyone get angry as the balls were landing 40-50m back and running on.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

The guy was a jerk. A rolling ball is a hazard to no one. I would have apologized for rolling one up in error but would have explained that it never put them in danger. He and I would have had a bit more of a chat to probe why he felt it necessary to throw your ball in the lake.

[moonshine]

500 rounds is a ton on same course....so I would have known better in the situation given the facts. Hit something shorter off the tee or wait. I was hit into by a group of LPGA players blind tee shot few days b4 their tourney on siting round. I put ball on tee and laughed it off. Guy was probably drinking nasty pi$$ beer and playing bad.

[Fade]

The group in front couldn't know that you maxed out that tee-shot. They may have thought you were trying to carry it onto the green and missed it.

[QEight]

Nothing really happened, except there was a hot head on green.

[krtgolfing]

You were at fault for hitting into the group in front of you. If there is any doubt you could hit into the group in front of you don't. I wouldn't of tee'd off on the side of the green and hit the ball right back at ya! Had to did that once on my round Monday. I guess the group on the tee was pissed cause I was going for a par 5 in two, which I was a yard short BTW. Had a lovely chat on the next tee box!

[Hateto3Putt]

I would have loved to have found his wedge.....

[Hot Rod 71]

Guy sounds like a real jackass with anger issues. He likely spends most of his time searching for an outlet and you provided one.

[LeoLeo99]

I wouldn't have a problem if you rolled one up on me.

 

Amazes me how a great shot that's on target and comes close to someone is treated with so much anger but a bad shot that almost hits someone is just chalked up to happenstance. Slice one into the next fairway, yell Fore , people scatter and duck and that's just golf. Catch one perfect and roll it up near the green and people lose their minds.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

If you knew there was a chance of reaching the green, you should have waited (in which case, you would have probably hit a stinker, such is golf!). That said, from what you said, they weren't in any danger, and I'm assuming it was the first time this had happened to them that day, so I don't understand his reaction. All it should have taken was an apology from you, they say "no probs" and everyone goes on to enjoy the rest of their round.

[DLiver]

There is a difference between hitting into people, and hitting up on people. Both are bad etiquette--with the first being unsafe. I won't hit a ball if I think I can get within 50 yards of the group in front. It can be annoying to hear or see balls land that close to you when you are playing. It is like you are pushing the group in front of you.

 

You did hit into the group, which IMO warranted you going up and apologizing--which also gives you a chance to explain the circumstances. The angry golfer in front of you was just a complete asshat who's actions should be ignored.

[deadsolid...shank]

Maybe with the conditions being what they were you should have waited. But you were pretty well aware of what the worst case scenario was, rolling it on. But that worst case did happen. At that point you're basically at the mercy of the group on the green. We would have told you great shot.....but the reaction you received is every bit as likely an outcome.

 

If there is a chance, even a remote one, probably better to just wait.

[Augster]

So we're waiting for par 4's to clear the green before we hit now? That's complete BS. I hope I'm never in a group behind you.

 

Unless you can fly it on the green, you hit.

 

I know most of this thread is a brag post, but you never said how far the hole is. That also matters. You're going to roll one across the green a much higher percentage of the time on a 270 yard par 4 than a 330 yard par 4. If you're going to roll it on the green 80% of the time, you should likely wait. If you're going to roll it on 5% of the time, swing away.

 

Guy was a tool. I've never touched another ball in play. I don't get that.

 

 

[DavePelz4]

A couple of weeks back I did the same on a par 4. Perfect wind and ground conditions made a good drive go a LOT farther than normal and it ended up on the green.

 

One of the guys stood there and waited for me to come up. Arms folded, a good scolding was apparently coming. He asked me how old I was and then said, "That was a helluva shot." Of course, I beagled the hole thank you very little.

[deadsolid...shank]

A couple of weeks back I did the same on a par 4. Perfect wind and ground conditions made a good drive go a LOT farther than normal and it ended up on the green.

 

One of the guys stood there and waited for me to come up. Arms folded, a good scolding was apparently coming. He asked me how old I was and then said, "That was a helluva shot." Of course, I beagled the hole thank you very little.

 

Are you playing those 220 yard par fours again DP?! "beagled" the hole? I've seen you post that twice now (I'm guessing something about turning an eagle putt into a bogey?)

[smeech8000]

So we're waiting for par 4's to clear the green before we hit now? That's complete BS. I hope I'm never in a group behind you.

 

Unless you can fly it on the green, you hit.

 

I know most of this thread is a brag post, but you never said how far the hole is. That also matters. You're going to roll one across the green a much higher percentage of the time on a 270 yard par 4 than a 330 yard par 4. If you're going to roll it on the green 80% of the time, you should likely wait. If you're going to roll it on 5% of the time, swing away.

 

Respectfully disagree, rationalization of yardages and probabilities notwithstanding. Say he ends up blasting a guy in the head due to a particularly well-struck shot/large gust of wind/ball hits sprinkler head/insert other freak occurrence here - are you going to say to him "Sorry man, I figured there was only a 1 in 20 chance I'd hit the green!"

 

You never know what "the absolute best" your ball might do... your previous absolute best was better than the absolute best before that one occurred, right? How do you gauge "non-dangerous" roll? If your ball rolled all the way to the back of or over the green would that have been wrong? I'm just saying there's a lot of grey area which is easily avoidable by simply waiting. If the group behind you has an issue with it... oh well. I've waited for numerous par-4 and 5 greens to clear, often to the chagrin of the group behind me. I've also missed the green on the majority of those shots, but getting on was certainly in the realm of possibility.

 

OP knew there was a likelihood of reaching given the particular conditions that day. He should have waited, even we're talking

.

 

I'll grant that I probably should have waited until they were off the green but I knew that at the absolute best that my ball might roll onto the green. Even under those conditions it was probably less than 10% that my ball would roll onto it. They were not in any danger whatsoever. I knew beyond any doubt that I couldn't fly the ball into them.

 

Not flogging you for what happened, OP, just saying that if you want to avoid feeling bad about it in the future just wait and don't feel ashamed if/when your ball doesn't reach the green.

 

I am in no way justifying the guy throwing your ball in the lake, that was a huge DB move.

[umassgolfer]

I hate getting into that situation, especially if there's a group behind me. I hate making others wait on me. So my dilemma becomes...play the game the way I want to (hitting driver in this situation) or let the other groups dictate my course management and lay up on a scoreable hole?

 

One time a playing partner hit into a group in front on accident. Guy in the group ahead took out a sharpie and wrote a few thoughts on the ball for him.

[deadsolid...shank]

I hate getting into that situation, especially if there's a group behind me. I hate making others wait on me. So my dilemma becomes...play the game the way I want to (hitting driver in this situation) or let the other groups dictate my course management and lay up on a scoreable hole?

 

One time a playing partner hit into a group in front on accident. Guy in the group ahead took out a sharpie and wrote a few thoughts on the ball for him.

 

I agree. Seems like if you wait then the group behind get there and is watching, and inevitably you butcher the shot.

[LeoLeo99]

So we're waiting for par 4's to clear the green before we hit now? That's complete BS. I hope I'm never in a group behind you.

 

Unless you can fly it on the green, you hit.

 

I know most of this thread is a brag post, but you never said how far the hole is. That also matters. You're going to roll one across the green a much higher percentage of the time on a 270 yard par 4 than a 330 yard par 4. If you're going to roll it on the green 80% of the time, you should likely wait. If you're going to roll it on 5% of the time, swing away.

 

Respectfully disagree, rationalization of yardages and probabilities notwithstanding. Say he ends up blasting a guy in the head due to a particularly well-struck shot/large gust of wind/ball hits sprinkler head/insert other freak occurrence here - are you going to say to him "Sorry man, I figured there was only a 1 in 20 chance I'd hit the green!"

 

You never know what "the absolute best" your ball might do... your previous absolute best was better than the absolute best before that one occurred, right? How do you gauge "non-dangerous" roll? If your ball rolled all the way to the back of or over the green would that have been wrong? I'm just saying there's a lot of grey area which is easily avoidable by simply waiting. If the group behind you has an issue with it... oh well. I've waited for numerous par-4 and 5 greens to clear, often to the chagrin of the group behind me. I've also missed the green on the majority of those shots, but getting on was certainly in the realm of possibility.

 

OP knew there was a likelihood of reaching given the particular conditions that day. He should have waited, even we're talking

.

 

 

 

If there is a group playing an adjacent hole do you wait for them, too? I mean there's a chance you could hook or slice one into the adjacent fairway. There is also the absolute worst your ball could do, too.

[RSinSG]

Considering the Spanish translation of your username my first thought was you were describe some horrible thing you did. :)

 

Waiting to hit a shot that has very little chance of "rolling" to a green is not a major breech of etiquette IMO. If the course was backed up and you had not where to go it wouldn't hurt to wait because your just going to wait on the next shot. I try to not let the group behind me wait too much, and if I have never been able to hit a green before I wouldn't wait.

[Swisstrader98]

The mere fact that you have to come on a forum to ask the question suggests you're at fault and indeed you were.

[smeech8000]

So we're waiting for par 4's to clear the green before we hit now? That's complete BS. I hope I'm never in a group behind you.

 

Unless you can fly it on the green, you hit.

 

I know most of this thread is a brag post, but you never said how far the hole is. That also matters. You're going to roll one across the green a much higher percentage of the time on a 270 yard par 4 than a 330 yard par 4. If you're going to roll it on the green 80% of the time, you should likely wait. If you're going to roll it on 5% of the time, swing away.

 

Respectfully disagree, rationalization of yardages and probabilities notwithstanding. Say he ends up blasting a guy in the head due to a particularly well-struck shot/large gust of wind/ball hits sprinkler head/insert other freak occurrence here - are you going to say to him "Sorry man, I figured there was only a 1 in 20 chance I'd hit the green!"

 

You never know what "the absolute best" your ball might do... your previous absolute best was better than the absolute best before that one occurred, right? How do you gauge "non-dangerous" roll? If your ball rolled all the way to the back of or over the green would that have been wrong? I'm just saying there's a lot of grey area which is easily avoidable by simply waiting. If the group behind you has an issue with it... oh well. I've waited for numerous par-4 and 5 greens to clear, often to the chagrin of the group behind me. I've also missed the green on the majority of those shots, but getting on was certainly in the realm of possibility.

 

OP knew there was a likelihood of reaching given the particular conditions that day. He should have waited, even we're talking

.

 

 

 

If there is a group playing an adjacent hole do you wait for them, too? I mean there's a chance you could hook or slice one into the adjacent fairway. There is also the absolute worst your ball could do, too.

 

Depends. Are you TRYING to hit in to the adjacent fairway? I would call that occurrence an "accident".

 

When you actually reach the green you're aiming at and intending to hit, it's a completely different scenario.

[Shawn Paul]

"I told him no (truthfully even) but then told him that if I did I'd be sure to send it to meet my ball."

 

Very funny, well said.

 

Last weekend I was playing with my son (who is 10) on a Saturday morning, very busy. We were in no way playing slow. On a par 4 we teed off and got up to our balls. As we were waiting for the green to clear to hit our approach shots a ball whizzed right over our cart and landed 5 yards in front of us. I instructed my son to run over the ball so it was nice and mashed into the ground. "Why dad?" He says. "Because those guys hit into us." The guys teeing off behind us could see us as well, it should be noted.

 

When the gentlemen walked up to his ball he looked at it a bit perplexed and then looked up at me on the green. I looked at him and he looked at his ball. Point taken I think. Subtle, non confrontational, harmless.

[joey2aces]

I don't think you did anything wrong besides make him feel like less of a man. He probably 3 or 4 jacked for double or triple. Kudos to you for not doing anything to escalate the issue and you are a good role model for your kids and I bet your father is proud to have raised you as a son.

 

You win in life, that is all that matters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

**Looks for WRX thread from guy who throws ball in lake titled "Was I right???"...

[Bushwood Country Club]

I'm going to swim against the tide here, but on a Par 4, you did nothing wrong. The guy who threw your ball is jacka%%. The only thing I'd have done differently is to go back, find his wedge, and send it swimming.