Could a Scratch Golfer break 85 at Augusta?

[ssfranny]

Augusta is not some magical course that brings everyone to their knees. Its a course that old rich hacks play all day. If 14 handicaps can survive, a scratch can too. The toughest challenge would be the short game. Not having a caddy would be stupid though.

 

Right but members play it a lot and with tees that are prob 500-700 yards shorter than Master tees

[VOX]

1,070 yards shorter as on the scorecard I posted above

[Shilgy]

Yes, the shorter tees are easier. But post after post had implied that the greens are kryptonite and unplayable for mortals. Yes they are faster and firmer for the Masters. But they are not unplayable. They are not the US Open at Shinnecock.

[BMC]

Zac Johnson won the Masters, so its not all about length. Lots of a good ams (including high school kids) can hit it 300 yards these days. A tournament scratch could easily shoot 85 or better.

[Marcusfj]

Lucky enough to have played it in 2007.

I was plus 1 (U.K. Hcp) the time and played with 2 scratch players and a member.

Yes to a caddie, but I think they double bagged it so of limited help.

Played off the Masters tees which were 7450.

In November so the ball wasn't running but the greens were only about 11.

Hit irons into about 3 of the par 4s the rest was 3 wood or rescue, unbelievably long. 11th just goes on for ever and ever!

I played out of my socks for 79, other two were 81 each.

Stick the greens up to tournament speed and sub 85 on your first round there would be a seriously impressive task for a scratch golfer.

 

 

[tssgj65]

I think it is doable, a lot tougher without a practice round. I shot 76 on the third day of playing Oakland Hills two weeks before the Harrington PGA win. The rough was tougher when I played compared to what it was for the tournament, but the greens were slower as well. Doable on a good day.

[Hawkeye77]

Lucky enough to have played it in 2007.

I was plus 1 (U.K. Hcp) the time and played with 2 scratch players and a member.

Yes to a caddie, but I think they double bagged it so of limited help.

Played off the Masters tees which were 7450.

In November so the ball wasn't running but the greens were only about 11.

Hit irons into about 3 of the par 4s the rest was 3 wood or rescue, unbelievably long. 11th just goes on for ever and ever!

I played out of my socks for 79, other two were 81 each.

Stick the greens up to tournament speed and sub 85 on your first round there would be a seriously impressive task for a scratch golfer.

 

Welcome and thanks for the insight!

[flog2]

Lucky enough to have played it in 2007.

I was plus 1 (U.K. Hcp) the time and played with 2 scratch players and a member.

Yes to a caddie, but I think they double bagged it so of limited help.

Played off the Masters tees which were 7450.

In November so the ball wasn't running but the greens were only about 11.

Hit irons into about 3 of the par 4s the rest was 3 wood or rescue, unbelievably long. 11th just goes on for ever and ever!

I played out of my socks for 79, other two were 81 each.

Stick the greens up to tournament speed and sub 85 on your first round there would be a seriously impressive task for a scratch golfer.

hacker!!

 

 

 

 

:tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

[jmvargas]

Lucky enough to have played it in 2007.

I was plus 1 (U.K. Hcp) the time and played with 2 scratch players and a member.

Yes to a caddie, but I think they double bagged it so of limited help.

Played off the Masters tees which were 7450.

In November so the ball wasn't running but the greens were only about 11.

Hit irons into about 3 of the par 4s the rest was 3 wood or rescue, unbelievably long. 11th just goes on for ever and ever!

I played out of my socks for 79, other two were 81 each.

Stick the greens up to tournament speed and sub 85 on your first round there would be a seriously impressive task for a scratch golfer.

 

 

excellent playing and congrats!!...

 

i guess this answers the op's question...once and for all.

[Guia]

Scratch golfers have often broken 85 at Augusta. Look at the amateurs that have played at the Masters, any number have broken 85 and even 80.

[nsxguy]

Lucky enough to have played it in 2007.

I was plus 1 (U.K. Hcp) the time and played with 2 scratch players and a member.

Yes to a caddie, but I think they double bagged it so of limited help.

Played off the Masters tees which were 7450.

In November so the ball wasn't running but the greens were only about 11.

Hit irons into about 3 of the par 4s the rest was 3 wood or rescue, unbelievably long. 11th just goes on for ever and ever!

I played out of my socks for 79, other two were 81 each.

Stick the greens up to tournament speed and sub 85 on your first round there would be a seriously impressive task for a scratch golfer.

 

How far do you carry your driver ?

[SurfDuffer]

A few years back I played Galloway National from the back tees. I'd only ever played the course previously in a couple of charity scrambles from the whites. At the time my index was a 6.3 Its the hardest test of golf I've played. I shot 84 that day and even though its 10 shots higher than my best scores on other courses I consider it one of my best ever rounds. The greens killed me that round too with a number of 3-putts on the card and several easy missed birdie opportunities on the ridiculously challenging greens. I'm not sure how the two courses compare but on paper their course rating and slope are not far apart. The numbers on this course are 75.4/146 and 7,111 yards and the course is right at sea level so its long. It is a par 71. The longest hole from the back is 584 and the shortest is 152 and has one par 3 that plays 253 down hill and another that plays 211. The course is a beast from the back.

 

Based on my experience as a 6.3 breaking 85 on this course I don't think a scratch player would have much difficulty at all breaking 85 at Augusta and may even break 80 frequently.

[Short Pete]

Hi SurfDuffer,

 

sorry, but this experience is next to useless! You played a flat course at sea level you have played before, which is completely different from the task discussed here. Simply comparing long and short holes and claiming that this is the hardest course YOU know, and hence Augusta National can't be that much more difficult is kind of funny, if you ask me.

 

The stuff Marcusfj wrote makes complete sense to me, as he has played the course this thread is all about (and even he didn't play it under the conditions we are talking about here). Comparing apples to oranges proves nothing.

[Man_O_War]

i broke 80 first time i played congressional.. and i am not scratch these days..so why can't a scratch player break 85 at Augusta...of course it can be done.

 

I have played Amen Corner..in 1 under... Renditions Golf Course

[lowheel]

Lucky enough to have played it in 2007.

I was plus 1 (U.K. Hcp) the time and played with 2 scratch players and a member.

Yes to a caddie, but I think they double bagged it so of limited help.

Played off the Masters tees which were 7450.

In November so the ball wasn't running but the greens were only about 11.

Hit irons into about 3 of the par 4s the rest was 3 wood or rescue, unbelievably long. 11th just goes on for ever and ever!

I played out of my socks for 79, other two were 81 each.

Stick the greens up to tournament speed and sub 85 on your first round there would be a seriously impressive task for a scratch golfer.

 

 

excellent playing and congrats!!...

 

i guess this answers the op's question...once and for all.

 

Not at all. its a great achievement but he played in november. remember the OP is sunday tournment conditions/pins.If he shot 81 and 79 then breaking 85 would be very tough for him.13.5 greens and sunday pins will easily add 6-7 shots.

[lowheel]

i broke 80 first time i played congressional.. and i am not scratch these days..so why can't a scratch player break 85 at Augusta...of course it can be done.

 

I have played Amen Corner..in 1 under... Renditions Golf Course

 

respectfully thats a horrible analogy. Have you attended a masters? if you did you wouldnt be comparing those 2 places...

[lowheel]

Scratch golfers have often broken 85 at Augusta. Look at the amateurs that have played at the Masters, any number have broken 85 and even 80.

 

Those guys arent scratch, theyre usually +4s minimum

[lowheel]

I think it is doable, a lot tougher without a practice round. I shot 76 on the third day of playing Oakland Hills two weeks before the Harrington PGA win. The rough was tougher when I played compared to what it was for the tournament, but the greens were slower as well. Doable on a good day.

 

From tournament tees?

[BNGL]

We used to debate that in college, and the general consensus is yes a scratch player could, IF he could get over it being the masters. We had a player from our conference play the Masters during the week (his father is a past masters champ) so he'd play Augusta yearly under tournament conditions he was shooting mid 70s

[SurfDuffer]

Hi SurfDuffer,

 

sorry, but this experience is next to useless! You played a flat course at sea level you have played before, which is completely different from the task discussed here. Simply comparing long and short holes and claiming that this is the hardest course YOU know, and hence Augusta National can't be that much more difficult is kind of funny, if you ask me.

 

The stuff Marcusfj wrote makes complete sense to me, as he has played the course this thread is all about (and even he didn't play it under the conditions we are talking about here). Comparing apples to oranges proves nothing.

 

I think you'd be surprised how not flat this course is. I also posted its slope and course rating which are fairly close to those of Augusta. Its a more difficult course the Baltisrol where the PGA Championship was played 2 years ago. Just seems you will say anything to discount any opinion other than your own.

[bladehunter]

didnt read the OP ....but talked with a guy yesterday who shot 78 last year when he played as a guest of callaway ( not sure of callaways ties but that was his in ).... Hes technically a teaching pro , but ive played many rounds with him and scratch accurately describes his handicapif he kept one.... he isnt plus anything.. ive seen him shoot 78 80 85 in pro-ams etc and many many 72-75 rounds ... not sure whuy folks think this is imposible unless yuour trying to say sunday masters week round... which is stupid to say... not many do well under that pressure the first time... that argument is about pressure not that course

[imakaveli]

It depends on the greens, if they are normal why not, if they are "Sunday at the Masters" fast no way!

[Man_O_War]

i broke 80 first time i played congressional.. and i am not scratch these days..so why can't a scratch player break 85 at Augusta...of course it can be done.

 

I have played Amen Corner..in 1 under... Renditions Golf Course

 

respectfully thats a horrible analogy. Have you attended a masters? if you did you wouldnt be comparing those 2 places...

 

 

i have not.. based on TV and over the years..Augusta is an easier driving course than Congressional which is a US Open ready track..remember if a scratch player's objective is to break 85... he lays up on all par 5s for par objective. Takes bogey on the watery holes, 11 for example, get's lucky on 12...16.. you are a little overwhelmed by your obsession with Augusta..it's a golf course...a scratch player can break 85. Relax...maybe you can't break 90 there...

[Short Pete]

Hi SurfDuffer,

 

sorry, but this experience is next to useless! You played a flat course at sea level you have played before, which is completely different from the task discussed here. Simply comparing long and short holes and claiming that this is the hardest course YOU know, and hence Augusta National can't be that much more difficult is kind of funny, if you ask me.

 

The stuff Marcusfj wrote makes complete sense to me, as he has played the course this thread is all about (and even he didn't play it under the conditions we are talking about here). Comparing apples to oranges proves nothing.

 

I think you'd be surprised how not flat this course is. I also posted its slope and course rating which are fairly close to those of Augusta. Its a more difficult course the Baltisrol where the PGA Championship was played 2 years ago. Just seems you will say anything to discount any opinion other than your own.

 

I honestly don't care what any course in the world has slope-wise, looks-wise or rough-wise.

 

This: Stipulations are no caddie, no cart, no walking the course beforehand, and 1 hour warmup before the round. Sunday tournament conditions, from the back tees.

 

at Augusta National is the task we are talking about here. Any experience from any other course played somewhere somehow under whatever conditions is useless.

 

What Marcusfj said makes total sense to me, any "i have played a US Open course from the members tees with no rough and slow greens and shot an easy 79" is bunk.

[SurfDuffer]

[jmvargas]

Hi SurfDuffer,

 

sorry, but this experience is next to useless! You played a flat course at sea level you have played before, which is completely different from the task discussed here. Simply comparing long and short holes and claiming that this is the hardest course YOU know, and hence Augusta National can't be that much more difficult is kind of funny, if you ask me.

 

The stuff Marcusfj wrote makes complete sense to me, as he has played the course this thread is all about (and even he didn't play it under the conditions we are talking about here). Comparing apples to oranges proves nothing.

 

I think you'd be surprised how not flat this course is. I also posted its slope and course rating which are fairly close to those of Augusta. Its a more difficult course the Baltisrol where the PGA Championship was played 2 years ago. Just seems you will say anything to discount any opinion other than your own.

 

I honestly don't care what any course in the world has slope-wise, looks-wise or rough-wise.

 

This: Stipulations are no caddie, no cart, no walking the course beforehand, and 1 hour warmup before the round. Sunday tournament conditions, from the back tees.

 

at Augusta National is the task we are talking about here. Any experience from any other course played somewhere somehow under whatever conditions is useless.

 

What Marcusfj said makes total sense to me, any "i have played a US Open course from the members tees with no rough and slow greens and shot an easy 79" is bunk.

 

i guess this conditions would only be met if they allowed play after the last flight has teed off on Masters sunday..

[Mcgeeno]

didnt read the OP ....but talked with a guy yesterday who shot 78 last year when he played as a guest of callaway ( not sure of callaways ties but that was his in ).... Hes technically a teaching pro , but ive played many rounds with him and scratch accurately describes his handicapif he kept one.... he isnt plus anything.. ive seen him shoot 78 80 85 in pro-ams etc and many many 72-75 rounds ... not sure whuy folks think this is imposible unless yuour trying to say sunday masters week round... which is stupid to say... not many do well under that pressure the first time... that argument is about pressure not that course

 

Yeah I think thats fitting.

 

What the greens give up in strokes due to speed and undulation you make up with generous driving and safety. Not a heck of a lot of trouble out there. No real OBs anywhere, wide fairways and you almost always have a bail out.

 

We're talking 4-5 pars, a couple doubles and a bunch of bogeys. Throw in a miracle birdie or two and you are under 85.

 

I think the OP asked "could they break 85" and I have no doubt they :::could:: definitely not every single scratch out there as they arent all equal, but many guys could IMO.

[lowheel]

i broke 80 first time i played congressional.. and i am not scratch these days..so why can't a scratch player break 85 at Augusta...of course it can be done.

 

I have played Amen Corner..in 1 under... Renditions Golf Course

 

respectfully thats a horrible analogy. Have you attended a masters? if you did you wouldnt be comparing those 2 places...

 

 

i have not.. based on TV and over the years..Augusta is an easier driving course than Congressional which is a US Open ready track..remember if a scratch player's objective is to break 85... he lays up on all par 5s for par objective. Takes bogey on the watery holes, 11 for example, get's lucky on 12...16.. you are a little overwhelmed by your obsession with Augusta..it's a golf course...a scratch player can break 85. Relax...maybe you can't break 90 there...

 

Easy there..Congressional is a fine course and i have played there several times.Its not in augustas stratosphere. im a+4 mini tour pro and am not obsessed with augusta.I respect the historic difficulty of that course, thers no other place like it on earth.ive been there and know the actual reality of the demands that the op sets forth. When you see #2 & 8 & 13 & 15 in person and you see how difficult it is to layup on those par 5s when the fairway slopes 30-35 degrees downhill and the tightest lie possible those arent bogey holes, theyre doubles waiting to happen. you wouldnt break 95 there simply because of your arrogant attitude.youd be brought back to earth real fast after doubling or tripling #1. ive seen wednesday practice rounds where top tour guys were 4 putting, incapable of stopping certain chips and bunker shots, tiger included fyi. You know not what you speak of. if augusta ever added a us open style rough yikes almost impossible to hold those greens. Read the OPs scenario again before chiming in. shooting 80 at a US open course not in us open conditions from members tees has severally clouded your judgment

[Guia]

When I was a 2 HC, myself and 3 friends played Pebble Beach from the back tees, I shot 80 and the others were in the low 80's. The greens were not as fast as Augusta. I think that a scratch player could shoot under 85 at Augusta. The U.S. Senior Amateur champion gets to play the Masters, and from the back tees at Augusta will not be a + HC and they usually break 85.

[lowheel]

didnt read the OP ....but talked with a guy yesterday who shot 78 last year when he played as a guest of callaway ( not sure of callaways ties but that was his in ).... Hes technically a teaching pro , but ive played many rounds with him and scratch accurately describes his handicapif he kept one.... he isnt plus anything.. ive seen him shoot 78 80 85 in pro-ams etc and many many 72-75 rounds ... not sure whuy folks think this is imposible unless yuour trying to say sunday masters week round... which is stupid to say... not many do well under that pressure the first time... that argument is about pressure not that course

 

you should its specific and it will give you pause