Pros and others throw USGA under the bus.

bladehunter · May 29, 2019

> @nsxguy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

> > > > >

> > > > > I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

> > > > >

> > > > > The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

> > > > >

> > > > > That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > On the caddies. The right or wrong of it would be in the presentation of the “ friendly reminder “. If it offended someone enough to mention it. Chances are it was coming from down someone’s nose.

> > >

> > > This is an assumption based on personal bias, yes ?

> >

> > Sure. The bias being that I know that true intentioned help is an extreme rarity in the world. There’s usually a hook in it somewhere. Most people offering random help are doing to to get that “ superiority high “. Otherwise you could do bag spot checks before the first tee. Not announce your help on the first tee.

> >

> > I presume your assumption of “ he’s just trying to be a blessing “ is also from personal bias ? Neither of us know. So it pretty much has to be.

> >

>

> Cynical much ? So what's his "hook" then ?

>

> I assume "He's just trying to be a blessing" ??? LOL

>

> How about he's offering an accomodation to the players he feels he should be of service to ? That better ? (<--- that's a rhetorical question - I suspect I know your answer)

That’s my whole point. The mentioning of the 14 club rule to a pro caddie on the 1st tee is also a rhetorical question. Of course they know. And have checked. Sure. Some have failed in the past. I’d say in the grand scheme of all rounds players by pros ever. It’s less than 0.5 % failed this rule.

The hook is to assert the USGAs role as rules czars.

nsxguy · May 29, 2019

> @bladehunter said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On the caddies. The right or wrong of it would be in the presentation of the “ friendly reminder “. If it offended someone enough to mention it. Chances are it was coming from down someone’s nose.

> > > >

> > > > This is an assumption based on personal bias, yes ?

> > >

> > > Sure. The bias being that I know that true intentioned help is an extreme rarity in the world. There’s usually a hook in it somewhere. Most people offering random help are doing to to get that “ superiority high “. Otherwise you could do bag spot checks before the first tee. Not announce your help on the first tee.

> > >

> > > I presume your assumption of “ he’s just trying to be a blessing “ is also from personal bias ? Neither of us know. So it pretty much has to be.

> > >

> >

> > Cynical much ? So what's his "hook" then ?

> >

> > I assume "He's just trying to be a blessing" ??? LOL

> >

> > How about he's offering an accomodation to the players he feels he should be of service to ? That better ? (<--- that's a rhetorical question - I suspect I know your answer)

>

> That’s my whole point. The mentioning of the 14 club rule to a pro caddie on the 1st tee is also a rhetorical question. Of course they know. And have checked. Sure. Some have failed in the past. I’d say in the grand scheme of all rounds players by pros ever. It’s less than 0.5 % failed this rule.

>

> The hook is to assert the USGAs role as rules czars.

Remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean everybody's not out to get you. LOL

bladehunter · May 29, 2019

> @nsxguy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On the caddies. The right or wrong of it would be in the presentation of the “ friendly reminder “. If it offended someone enough to mention it. Chances are it was coming from down someone’s nose.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is an assumption based on personal bias, yes ?

> > > >

> > > > Sure. The bias being that I know that true intentioned help is an extreme rarity in the world. There’s usually a hook in it somewhere. Most people offering random help are doing to to get that “ superiority high “. Otherwise you could do bag spot checks before the first tee. Not announce your help on the first tee.

> > > >

> > > > I presume your assumption of “ he’s just trying to be a blessing “ is also from personal bias ? Neither of us know. So it pretty much has to be.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Cynical much ? So what's his "hook" then ?

> > >

> > > I assume "He's just trying to be a blessing" ??? LOL

> > >

> > > How about he's offering an accomodation to the players he feels he should be of service to ? That better ? (<--- that's a rhetorical question - I suspect I know your answer)

> >

> > That’s my whole point. The mentioning of the 14 club rule to a pro caddie on the 1st tee is also a rhetorical question. Of course they know. And have checked. Sure. Some have failed in the past. I’d say in the grand scheme of all rounds players by pros ever. It’s less than 0.5 % failed this rule.

> >

> > The hook is to assert the USGAs role as rules czars.

>

> Remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean everybody's not out to get you. LOL

>

Exactly !!! ......... did you hear that ???

Shilgy · May 29, 2019

I have not read this whole mess so it may have been mentioned but...

For those defending the players who want to strike for "accounting reasons" has anyone mentioned the R&A? I know they were defended as doing things correctly but what of their accounting? I am sure they make well over the purse offered as well. Where's the outrage?

I highly doubt that when push came to shove the players that were supposedly willing to not play would have sat out.

Murphy76 · May 29, 2019

> >

> > Rogue Greenskeeper. That sounds like a Batman villain from the 1960's. POW! Zork! Boof!

> >

>

> Rogue Greenskeeper. That may be my new screen name. I bet I could find a cool avatar.

I considered the same thing!

Unfortunately, my lizard brain couldn't come up with something that wasn't extremely offensive.

Tasals · May 29, 2019

> @Shilgy said:

> I have not read this whole mess so it may have been mentioned but...

> For those defending the players who want to strike for "accounting reasons" has anyone mentioned the R&A? I know they were defended as doing things correctly but what of their accounting? I am sure they make well over the purse offered as well. Where's the outrage?

>

> I highly doubt that when push came to shove the players that were supposedly willing to not play would have sat out.

If the USGA gets players threatening to boycott the advertisement money being spent drops, when a Fox pays over billion for the USOpen for the duration of the deal they would throw a collective fit. It would force action early, the USGA could stick their heads in the sand for a bit but if youre getting the top guys like DJ and Rory threatening to boycott it forces a response.

Murphy76 · May 29, 2019

> @joeshmo said:

> The purse this year is 12.5 million. 1st place check is 2,250,000.

> They all play the same course...Don't see the problem.

I might set aside my own personal grumps to win that, but then again, I am not a millionaire.

Quote: "Do you know why he is eccentric? Because he can afford to be."

I'm not suggesting abandoning ones' morals for a paycheck, but anyone can certainly understand the pull....

Plus, If all your competition boycotted, This could be an easy-er payday for less than top 10 players.

BlackDiamondPar5 · May 29, 2019

PGA, The Masters, The Open seem to run good tournaments without screwing up a golf course and without much controversy or criticism. But the usga certainly has had its disproportionately large problems. To deny that is blindness. So why the usga apologists come running in defending the indefensible?

ebrasmus21 · May 29, 2019

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> PGA, The Masters, The Open seem to run good tournaments without **** up a golf course and without much controversy or criticism. But the usga certainly has had its disproportionately large problems. To deny that is blindness. So why the usga apologists come running in defending the indefensible?

^^

Negative Nancy here. Am right, guys?

Tasals · May 29, 2019

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> PGA, The Masters, The Open seem to run good tournaments without **** up a golf course and without much controversy or criticism. But the usga certainly has had its disproportionately large problems. To deny that is blindness. So why the usga apologists come running in defending the indefensible?

I agree completely. The PGA at Bethpage was an exellent set up of that course. Brooks demolished it the first two days and his final two were played in +4 over par, only 6 players under par for the tournament. #1 and 2 Ranked players in 1st and 2nd, and after the tournament Brooks got world #1. I know a lot of people checked out because it was believed he was going wire to wire and with lead that large it would have been a collapse for the ages, but it was a tough but fair course, multiple styles of game were playable and the rough was penal in most cases. Par 5s were reachable in two with two good shots, longer hitters took the safe route and laid up when lies were less than good to bad, or the angle was risky.

bladehunter · May 29, 2019

> @Shilgy said:

> I have not read this whole mess so it may have been mentioned but...

> For those defending the players who want to strike for "accounting reasons" has anyone mentioned the R&A? I know they were defended as doing things correctly but what of their accounting? I am sure they make well over the purse offered as well. Where's the outrage?

>

> I highly doubt that when push came to shove the players that were supposedly willing to not play would have sat out.

Might should read the whole article and quotes. And then read this mess. It was in response to the huge fox contract. And specifically mentioned the monies being put back into the game as an option to the purse being raised . The concern was the USga pocketing it all. Period.

BNGL · May 29, 2019

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @BNGL said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > @BNGL said:

> > > > > @Mikey5e said:

> > > > > My hope is the USGA doesn't make the courses too easy for the US Open tournament. I don't think it would be very difficult to make a course difficult to play, but still maintain fairness.

> > > > > As for the incident with Phil last year, he just hammered that first one too hard to stop in those conditions. His second putt in that direction he missed and it stopped, indicating that he should have been more careful on his first putt. There is no golf tournament as boring as a tournament where are the top 10 golfers are all 15 to 25 under par. When golf is that easy I shut the TV off.

> > > >

> > > > I have to disagree. 15-25 under is fantastic. To me the most locked in event I was into was Sei Young Kim at the Thornberry Classic when she shot 31 under 257. I want to see how good the pros are, because I can post 10-12 under for four rounds at Medalist or Jupiter Hills. I do agree the US Open should be a challenge but your last couple sentences to me I disagree with.

> > >

> > > Man, I couldn't disagree more. 15-25 under for a national championship is a mockery. I already know how good the pros are and I'm way more locked in when it's low single digit under par and players are fighting and scraping for par and have to hit really, really good shots to make birdies. That's real golf to me.

> > >

> > > But, hey, that's just my opinion. And as I like to say, just because you agree with me doesn't mean you are a smart and just because you disagree with me doesn't mean you are stupid.

> >

> > Let’s examine the British then. From 2000 to now there have been 10 winners at 10 under or better.

> > Then what does it mean?

>

> I have no clue what that means because I don't even know how what you said relates to my post. But, admittedly, there's a lot of things I don't understand. Just ask my wife.

I’m showing you the mockery of the British Open which is a national championship yes? Since I’m transitioning jobs from Jupiter area to a little club in Georgia and I don’t start till next week. I have plenty of time to examine National opens around the world and observe what a, “mockery” they are.

buckeyefl · May 29, 2019

> @nsxguy said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

> > > > >

> > > > > I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

> > > > >

> > > > > The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

> > > > >

> > > > > That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > On the caddies. The right or wrong of it would be in the presentation of the “ friendly reminder “. If it offended someone enough to mention it. Chances are it was coming from down someone’s nose.

> > >

> > > This is an assumption based on personal bias, yes ?

> >

> > More like history.

>

> MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.,

>

> MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

We're you trying to make a point while ignoring history?

Maybe a trip down memory lane with a multitude of examples of their history will help you.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-jun-12-sp-debacle12-story.html

It also shoots down that last quoted player as misinformed as both players mentioned are in the article "complaining".

bladehunter · May 29, 2019

> @nsxguy said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

> > > > >

> > > > > I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

> > > > >

> > > > > The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

> > > > >

> > > > > That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > On the caddies. The right or wrong of it would be in the presentation of the “ friendly reminder “. If it offended someone enough to mention it. Chances are it was coming from down someone’s nose.

> > >

> > > This is an assumption based on personal bias, yes ?

> >

> > More like history.

>

> MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.,

>

> MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

Again. You read things differently than I.

The first one. I read it to say that the USga manages to erase all the good the mid and lower level employees do all year , by making our ( yes OUR) national title a week filled with controversy.

Vindog · May 29, 2019

Don't really care about the pros and their incessant whining. I have lost all respect for them and their cry during the rules changes.

Would listen to the concern of AMs though.

Rangeballz · May 29, 2019

My take from reading this thread......

Are a lot of tour pros whiny, spoiled brats? Yes

Was their behavior during the rules change embarrassing? Yup, especially Fowler's antics.

Does the USGA consistently screw up course setup for the US Open? Without question.

Is the USGA staffed by a bunch of obnoxious gasbags who think the world rotates around them? Abso-frickn-lutely.

You get groups like these together and you're going to have trouble....

Roadking2003 · May 29, 2019

> @BNGL said:

> Throw out Chambers, that was an anomaly that was no ones fault and beyond human control.

>

Except that the USGA CHOSE Chambers knowing that it would be a terrible venue for viewing the tournament.

Roadking2003 · May 29, 2019

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> PGA, The Masters, The Open seem to run good tournaments without **** up a golf course and without much controversy or criticism. But the usga certainly has had its disproportionately large problems. To deny that is blindness. So why the usga apologists come running in defending the indefensible?

This is true. I don't recall any PGA course setups that were over the top. The only negative event at a PGA that I recall is the penalty on DJ at Whistling Straits.

buckeyefl · May 29, 2019

> @Rangeballz said:

> My take from reading this thread......

>

> Are a lot of tour pros whiny, spoiled brats? Yes

> Was their behavior during the rules change embarrassing? Yup, especially Fowler's antics.

> Does the USGA consistently screw up course setup for the US Open? Without question.

> Is the USGA staffed by a bunch of obnoxious gasbags who think the world rotates around them? Abso-frickn-lutely.

>

> You get groups like these together and you're going to have trouble....

The complaints and bad decisions aren't limited to only their pro event. The offer plenty if ammo for those that rightfully call them out.

umassgolfer · May 29, 2019

> @Tasals said:

> > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > PGA, The Masters, The Open seem to run good tournaments without **** up a golf course and without much controversy or criticism. But the usga certainly has had its disproportionately large problems. To deny that is blindness. So why the usga apologists come running in defending the indefensible?

>

> I agree completely. The PGA at Bethpage was an exellent set up of that course. Brooks demolished it the first two days and his final two were played in +4 over par, only 6 players under par for the tournament. #1 and 2 Ranked players in 1st and 2nd, and after the tournament Brooks got world #1. I know a lot of people checked out because it was believed he was going wire to wire and with lead that large it would have been a collapse for the ages, but it was a tough but fair course, multiple styles of game were playable and the rough was penal in most cases. Par 5s were reachable in two with two good shots, longer hitters took the safe route and laid up when lies were less than good to bad, or the angle was risky.

See...I don't think I agree with this take. Andy at The Fried Egg lays it out well...the fairways have been so narrowed that there was a statistically much smaller chance for anyone but the bombers to play well. With fairways that narrow, everyone, even the "short and straight" guys, were statistically bound to miss their fair share. Fairways were narrower than the standard dispersion of pretty much anyone in the field. The "shorter" hitters are left with 200+ yards in from gnarly rough, necessitating a pitch-out, whereas the longer hitters are 30-50 yards closer, and hit shorter irons longer, allowing them to get up to/near the green when they miss fairways.

Hence DJ and Brooks being 4 and 6 shots clear of 3rd place. Wider fairways, maybe pinching in a bit for the longest hitters, would allow for 1) more even playing field and 2) establishing width and angles to reward players who want to play certain holes to their strengths. For example, hole #6, the original design was for laying up short of the fairway bunkers as a "safe" play and driver being a good chance to set up birdie, but the fairway was played so narrow that the lay-up became far from a sure thing. It ended up more statistically advantageous to bomb the driver bast the fairway bunkers because worst case it set-up a wedge from the rough instead of a 8 iron or longer.

I guess what I am saying is if the USGA were running that event they would have been crushed for the thick rough, lack of diversity in playing style, etc. Of course, they would have also probably had the greens running at 16, half-dead and spray painted green and may have installed a windmill or clown's mouth on a few greens.

BNGL · May 29, 2019

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @BNGL said:

> > Throw out Chambers, that was an anomaly that was no ones fault and beyond human control.

> >

>

> Except that the USGA CHOSE Chambers knowing that it would be a terrible venue for viewing the tournament.

Ok sure. But I don’t think rangers goalie or myself were discussing spectators. The topic was about the condition of the greens. But point to roadking I guess

umassgolfer · May 29, 2019

> @ea19 said:

> I think the money aspect is very interesting. Due to the TV contracts, the revenue to the USGA went from $38M to $93M - more than doubling. But the purse went up 20% max.

>

> Meanwhile in other sports like NFL and NBA - the players are getting roughly or close to 50% of the revenue.

>

> I would think that alone would highly irritate the players.

Comparing to other sports is completely off-base for this one. The USGA is not the players' league. If they are upset with the revenue split from the PGA TOUR, fine.

But basically my takeaway from this part of the discussion is once again USGA can't get out of their own way. They tried to be transparent but ultimately made people upset even though they are still offering the largest purse in golf. There would be no outrage if the USGA just never announced the terms of their deal. I simply can't imagine the Masters having a more favorable revenue split for the players.

Look, I am not a USGA apologist. Actually the opposite in a lot of cases. I do not support them with a membership fee. I take big issue with a lot of what they do on-course and off-course and how they present their messages (most notably I was infuriated at their incessant hypocritical "Play it Forward/speed up the rounds campaign run during the US Open, which is known for being the longest courses and slowest rounds of the year). However, I think this article was clearly approached with a very clear objective of piling on the USGA. The end result makes the players look petty and undermines a lot of the legitimate complaints, allowing USGA and their biggest supporters to dismiss them entirely as anonymous gripes from pampered pros.

North Texas · May 29, 2019

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > PGA, The Masters, The Open seem to run good tournaments without **** up a golf course and without much controversy or criticism. But the usga certainly has had its disproportionately large problems. To deny that is blindness. So why the usga apologists come running in defending the indefensible?

>

> This is true. I don't recall any PGA course setups that were over the top. The only negative event at a PGA that I recall is the penalty on DJ at Whistling Straits.

Well, there was the playing in the dark fiasco in 2012. And a case can be made that courses are being set up to favor bombers as long hitters have won the last 6 PGA's.

RobS14526 · May 29, 2019

An article in response to the original.

https://www.si.com/golf/2019/05/28/usga-us-open-criticsm-confidential-shinnecock-setup

BNGL · May 29, 2019

> @bladehunter said:

> > @BNGL said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @BNGL said:

> > > > > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > > > > @BNGL said:

> > > > > > > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > > > > > Lets talk greens...an association with a pretty solid and active agronomy consulting and research arm has given the Us Open.

> > > > > > > Events where greens had to be maintained at different speeds due to the desire to make greens so fast it renders some greens unplayable or leaves one section of well designed greens unusable for hole locations. With many years to prepare for an event, they have proven incapable of producing consistent greens that match the course design they chose.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Pushing greens so far that there is loss of turf. Pebble, Shinnecock and Chambers were incredible prior to the weeks leading up to the Opens. Chambers greens in particular were embarrassingly bad.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Pebble is in beautiful condition as of last week. Greens are great although we’re soft after the recent rains. They can dry them out in 3 days with no rain, and pace will pick up. Will they push them so hard they start losing turf and create that familiar bumpy/crazy fast poa the USGA is so well I own for?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Will the 9th and 10th fairways get so fast that keeping a ball on the fairway not running off towards the cliffs?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Right now, Pebble is ready to be a great venue. Very tight in spots, greens are very consistent and healthy. Can they resist the urge to push just past the edge instead of right up to it?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > Throw out Chambers, that was an anomaly that was no ones fault and beyond human control.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Chambers greens a couple months prior to the open, were no doubt poa infested, but were actually quite solid. The drying out and shaving of the poa, stressed and created the bumpy mess we witnessed. It’s happened at Pebble the last few times as well. Trying to force the speed and concrete firmness on a plant that at its best grows inconsistently and is easy to stress is asking for problems.

> > > > > Again, pushing to just over the line seems to be the problem, rather than pushing up to that line.

> > > > >

> > > > > Of course they go to Erin after that and basically play a Web.com course on the RTJ trail conditions :)

> > > >

> > > > Not to be a total d*** because you played and know what you’re talking about but again it wasn’t a USGA setup issue that poa was a problem exacerbated by Mother Nature...not the USGA or course maintenance.

> > >

> > > **Preface-** - this is a question. So nobody take it as anything but.

> > >

> > > Can you elaborate as to what you mean ? I’m quite interested as a guy who was a maintenance shed grunt up to assistant in a span of 6 years. I can tell you that I don’t know the answer at chambers , if that helps. And I have no (0) experience on poa or fescue. Bermuda and pencross bent is all I’ve worked on. Again. Serious , curious question.

> > >

> >

> > Where to begin...let’s start at the beginning I guess (how original lol).

> >

> > So Chambers was originally built with fescue greens, which is perfect for the climate in the Northwest i.e. cooler, heading into that US Open, Tacoma had set multiple records for high temperatures and fescue when it gets warm shuts down and when that happens it opens the door for other species to invade. Trouble was is that the heat was a terrific catalyst for an explosion of poa growth which was already present, and present nearly everywhere on every golf course (particularly annual, not perennial that’s found at Oakmont).

> >

> > Just off the timeline I remember for our Opens water would have been reduced around 2.5-3 months before the tournament proper, which makes it April-ish end of March? I’d reckon the number was 18 percent or so in reduction. Plus nitrogen fertilizers would be stopped as well. So what that does is it firms out the course, less water, and makes it faster, thinner leaf blades (A reduction of N will shrink the leaf blade thinner blade means less friction, less friction imparted on the golf ball means faster speeds). The weather didn’t cooperate I think 2 weeks plus of mid 80s and by the time everyone realized the usual rains weren’t coming it was too late. The fescue checked out, (DID NOT DIE), and the poa exploded because they tried to water to save the fescue. What happens to poa when you water it? It grows...typically much faster than surrounding turf. You can brush it and groom it, but doing that on US Open greens would have made them unputtable because green speeds would have been ridiculous for the amount of undulation in those greens.

> >

> > So in conclusion you had the first US Open ever to be conducted on fescue greens. Normal tournament setup procedures were followed incorporating past weather patterns. Weather didn’t corporate, it stayed hot with no typical rains. Fescue checks out, poa explodes.

> >

>

> Makes a lot of sense. I would have assumed ( wrongly) that watering the fescue would have been the answer. Didn’t know it couldn’t do heat regardless. Makes me ask ..why? Why on earth would you try to use fescue ?

>

> Anyway. Thanks for the detail. Makes sense.

>

> Was like the boy who cried wolf. They had screwed up so many times on their own nobody believes the one time they got A raw deal and couldn’t help it. Hmmm

Look I’m many things not all of them good, but I like to think I’m very fair. You’re last paragraph hits the nail on the head. I don’t know anyone from that club but I read some o father comments about it...it’s embarrassing. I used take it personally when someone left a poor review on GolfNow when I was in Orlando, because they’re would be 100 4-5 star reviews then there would be 1 one star review and it would ruin my day...multiply that by 1000 at least and being on the national stage and hearing people say your course sucks.

Watering it would have helped but again the poa would have grown way faster. You may have been able to chemically push the fescue but the best option would have been brushes and groomers. Which again would have made the course unplayable because green speeds would have been north or 15 which is unputtable with the slopes there.

Ferguson · May 29, 2019

Far be it from me, but in 200-n-something posts I have perused, not a single viable solution to the problems of the USGA. Now, I have read plenty of critiques from plenty of people covering venues, course set up and even the type of turf all with merit but that aside, we must focus on doing what they are NOT doing. They are not coming together to find “working solutions” to grow interest in the game. We can’t become a twisted mess of disparagement(s).

GeorgeHWB · May 29, 2019

> @Ferguson said:

> Far be it from me, but in 200-n-something posts I have perused, not a single viable solution to the problems of the USGA.

Viable solutions have been proposed. Everyone at the USGA should be fired and replaced with people who are not arrogant idiots.

OldTomMorris · May 29, 2019

> @RobS14526 said:

> An article in response to the original.

>

> https://www.si.com/golf/2019/05/28/usga-us-open-criticsm-confidential-shinnecock-setup

It's a good response. A lot of the criticism are valid but the response does a good job on some of the rest.

I just hope this year's event is a great spectacle.

nsxguy · May 29, 2019

Front page headlines vs. page 9 "retractions".

Everybody wants to read every account they can find about the CEO caught in a sting. Everybody wants to read about building collapses, 10 car pile ups and planes crashing.

Nobody wants to read about the hiker who got saved or the boy who beat a debilitating illness. That ends quickly with "Oh, that's nice. Good for her/him" and then crickets.

Same-same with the "big boys". Individuals or major corporate entities. We love to see a rich, fat cat taken down (Think "In the Heat of the Night LOL) - somehow makes us feel better about ourselves, don't it ? LOL

Same thing going on right here. USGA, R&A and other organizations around the world take 7 years to simplify the ROG and mostly do away with "accidental" penalties and what happens ? Mostly they get flak, especially from the Pros; dropping the ball from their butt. Disgraceful.

And I guess since "we" can't identify with EITHER of them we'll take the side of the "poorer" of the 2; the players and castigate the "big guy" by pointing out everything they've messed up while ignoring everything else. Pretty funny.

As another poster mentioned earlier, I would LOVE to see DJ, JD, Rory, Tiger boycott the US Open. Brooks would be there lickin' his chops and saying "I may not win again but thanks for making it a lot easier boyz". LMAO But none of that is going to happen. These guys only have a relatively short window and Majors are Majors. Nobody's changing the definition of a Major anytime soon.

And the USGA has had their fair share of screwups so I am NOT being an apologist. Just pointing out the obvious.

nsxguy · May 29, 2019

> @bladehunter said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > > I have to wonder why the below "headlines" from that article weren't copied and pasted here ???

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > **MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.

> > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > **MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

> > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > **CADDIE FOR MULTIPLE PGA TOUR WINNERS: The USGA official with every group always patronizes the caddies on the first tee: “Make sure you've got 14 in there—count your clubs.” That's insulting.

> > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > LMAO - Patronizing ? Insulting ? Helping the caddies avoid getting fired for something we've seen a fair number of times ? That's "insulting" and "patronizing" ? now THAT is just good comedy.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > **TEACHER OF MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPIONS: They're amateurs who think they know it all—a dangerous combination.

> > > > > > > > **

> > > > > > > > Really ? Wow. Talk about "pot meet kettle".

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On 2nd thought, I don't wonder at all why nobody in this thread re-printed those statements. LOL

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see the players try to boycott the US Open. The stampede for the openings would be a sight to see.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And the point about spoiled players couldn't be more to the point. Millionaires complaining about other millionaires. 1st world problems indeed.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And I'm not nearly so bored as to try to find out which of you guys said things like "Bomb and gouge" is killing golf." "Who wants to see -28 winning a tournament ?" "Everything is driver/wedge",,,,,,,,,,, and who is complaining about Open conditions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > BTW, did anybody notice the rough at the PGA ? Jordan trying to hit a hybrid out of it. Only 6 players break par ?. Players having to wedge it back into play ? Disgraceful. I don't recall many people on here complaining about that. Good thing the greens at BB were, though pretty fast, for the most part, relatively flat - can you imagine the outcry ? LOL

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I read each of those quotes. But i take each differently than you spin them. I Totally get the caddie comment. As a expert in my field that deals with many many novice owners of my work , I have to grin and bare the teachings or reminders of soooo many idiots who couldn’t think their way out of a paper sack. My favorite is when a customer walks In and has a nice neat projection drawn up of what their fabrication project will cost. My first question is “ why didnt you do it yourself “? Which is met almost 100 % of the time with a huge gasp. Lol. Point. If you don’t do it. You can’t possibly tell me how to do it . Do you tell your doctor how to operate on your eyes ? Do you give your attorney advice ? Don’t give other professionals advice just Because you perceive them as blue collar and their job as menial.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How come you have a "take" and I "spin" them ? You do realize that "spin" is a pejorative term indicating the write is trying to manipulate something, yes ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I didn't spin anything on the first 1, just quoted them. You know, to show that not all players, instructors etc. think the same way even though those quotes were not the ones the thread was based on. Fair is fair, no ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The 4th one I simply said "pot, meet kettle" to those who called the USGA "amateurs" vis-a-vis what they do and oversee. Those instructors don't do what the USGA does - yet they're criticizing the USGA and calling them amateurs ? Pretty funny actually - hence the pot/kettle.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That leaves the 3rd one, the caddies, which you seem to be referencing. I don't really see how your customers equate to the USGA officials offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a simple role. They're not "telling" anybody how to do their job. They're offering a friendly reminder to each "team" about a rule that's tripped up a number of players in the past. Hardly telling a doctor how to operate. Hyperbole much ?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On the caddies. The right or wrong of it would be in the presentation of the “ friendly reminder “. If it offended someone enough to mention it. Chances are it was coming from down someone’s nose.

> > > >

> > > > This is an assumption based on personal bias, yes ?

> > >

> > > More like history.

> >

> > MULTIPLE MAJOR CHAMPION, INCLUDING THE U.S. OPEN: The USGA could do 10 great things at a U.S. Open, but the one bad thing they do is what gets publicized.,

> >

> > MULTIPLE EUROPEAN TOUR WINNER: People overreact. I can't see Faldo or Nicklaus moaning about all that stuff.

>

> Again. You read things differently than I.

>

> The first one. I read it to say that the USga manages to erase all the good the mid and lower level employees do all year , by making our ( yes OUR) national title a week filled with controversy.

THAT is how you read the first one ?

Oooooooooookay,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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Pros and others throw USGA under the bus.

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