Pushcart Popularity in the U.S.

[macedan]

A thread regarding push cart fees spontaneously had me thinking about why pushcarts/trolleys aren't anywhere near as popular here in the U.S. as they are in other areas, most notably the UK. Simply money to made from Carts, less rolling links courses and more hilly parkland courses here, ego? Although they are increasing in popularity here, they still appear to be on the lower end of the popularity spectrum (i.e. Pushcarts/Carrying/Carts). Why do you speculate this to be?

[Imp]

Heat/Humidity are also big contributors. Do I want to work up a sweat? I've pushed my ClicGear 3.0 for years. Only on some days (or particular courses) will I not walk. My home course, if it's 80*F+, it's a bear to walk because of sudden inclines and hardly any gradual. It's a workout either carrying or pushing, but doable (just have to catch my breath on 7 of the greens that have 20-30 foot inclines to the green less than 60 yards from the hole). There are only 5 relatively flat holes. (1, 6, 7, 9, 10). All the others have some kind of sudden elevation changes.

 

Many courses require use of carts on weekends (seem to think it helps flow). I would rather see everyone have their own cart vs two in a cart, stopping at one ball, waiting, THEN going to other ball.

 

Lots of parkland courses here too with long walks between greens.

 

--kC

 

[jimb6golf]

I use my Clicgear every time I play. Great cart and allows you to walk during a round of golf. All my friends use similar push carts as well. I do see a lot of people driving carts though and less people walking. A lot of courses mandate that you drive a cart before noon which makes it difficult to walk if you prefer to. There's a fallacy that driving a cart makes you move along faster and it's just not true, especially when you have people launching to opposite sides of the fairway.

[SNIPERBBB]

Climate and demographics. Outside the Canada border states it's HOT in the summer. Need to be in pretty good physical condition to do 5 miles or more when it's hilly and 90+. Average golfer is skewing older and out of shape..

 

[macedan]

> @jimb6golf said:

> I use my Clicgear every time I play. Great cart and allows you to walk during a round of golf. All my friends use similar push carts as well. I do see a lot of people driving carts though and less people walking. A lot of courses mandate that you drive a cart before noon which makes it difficult to walk if you prefer to. There's a fallacy that driving a cart makes you move along faster and it's just not true, especially when you have people launching to opposite sides of the fairway.

 

Perceived pace of play is definitely a possibility. Granted a single in a cart likely will play quicker than a single walker, however, most walkers still play fairly quick for their mode of transportation. I myself typically walk my 6,400 yard course to about 3 hours to 3 hours 15 minutes.

[macedan]

> @Imp said:

> Heat/Humidity are also big contributors. Do I want to work up a sweat? I've pushed my ClicGear 3.0 for years. Only on some days (or particular courses) will I not walk. My home course, if it's 80*F+, it's a bear to walk because of sudden inclines and hardly any gradual. It's a workout either carrying or pushing, but doable (just have to catch my breath on 7 of the greens that have 20-30 foot inclines to the green less than 60 yards from the hole). There are only 5 relatively flat holes. (1, 6, 7, 9, 10). All the others have some kind of sudden elevation changes.

>

> Many courses require use of carts on weekends (seem to think it helps flow). I would rather see everyone have their own cart vs two in a cart, stopping at one ball, waiting, THEN going to other ball.

>

> Lots of parkland courses here too with long walks between greens.

>

> --kC

>

 

Weather is a biiiiig factor. I am a recent graduate so I stick to walking for budgetary reasons. But Missouri summer humidity is no joke. I have walked in 95* weather with 85% humidity and it is absolutely brutal. Multiple bottles of water/electrolyte drinks are absolutely essential as is sticking to any patch of shade possible.

Hilly courses are a calf workout regardless of pushing or carrying, but fortunately my home course greens are all right next to the next tee box, but I have played a few where you almost need a map to find the next tee. I don't necessarily agree with the post about everyone having a cart, not for pace of play reasons, but just thinking about all the gas wasted in extra carts as well as turf damage from essentially double the amount of carts driving on fairways/rough everyday.

[Skaffa77]

I see a lot more pushcarts now that I used to. The only thing that prevents me from using a pushcart are some courses that are so spread out that you have 100+ yds between holes and massive elevation changes.

[Ferguson]

I carried until 7 years ago and started to push 18. I still carry for 9. Only ride when required.

 

 

 

[kmay__]

Here I see endless push/pull carts, and its very rare to see anyone carrying. Young guys (under 20) are about the only people I ever see carrying. Everyone else is riding or using a pull cart.

[North Butte]

> @macedan said:

> A thread regarding push cart fees spontaneously had me thinking about why pushcarts/trolleys aren't anywhere near as popular here in the U.S. as they are in other areas, most notably the UK. Simply money to made from Carts, less rolling links courses and more hilly parkland courses here, ego? Although they are increasing in popularity here, they still appear to be on the lower end of the popularity spectrum (i.e. Pushcarts/Carrying/Carts). Why do you speculate this to be?

 

Because the vast majority of USA golfers want to ride their butt around in a golf cart rather than walk. It's that simple.

 

There is a 60-something year old couple who live down the street from me. It is less than 200 yards from their house to the park at the end of the block. When their three grandchildren come to visit (ages roughly 8-12) the grandparents give them a golf cart to drive to the park, thereby avoiding three minutes of walking. This is in a neighborhood with little traffic and ample sidewalks. Sometimes the kids use the playground equipment but usually they just ride around in aimless circles, annoying the other people in the park. Reminds me of a lot of golf courses I've seen.

 

If you've never lived in USA or haven't been here in the past couple generations, you literally would not believe the extent to which people are in love with ANY motorized vehicle. Cars, trucks, golf carts, all-terrain vehicles, you name it. There's a sociodemographic niche who walk for exercise and a tiny subset of that niche who also walk for day-to-day transportation. But the other 90% of Americans viewing any walking more than absolutely necessary as something to be avoided at all costs.

 

P.S. There is also another sociodemographic niche who can't afford to own a vehicle. But I'd expect that most of them would own and drive a car everywhere if they had the means.

 

P.P.S. And I am also not talking about people in major urban centers where the norm to not to own a car but to use public transportation.

 

[macedan]

> @Skaffa77 said:

> I see a lot more pushcarts now that I used to. The only thing that prevents me from using a pushcart are some courses that are so spread out that you have 100+ yds between holes and massive elevation changes.

 

I walked my father's 9 hole home course the other day and their 7th hole is odd. Somehow, both the tee box and the green sit down below the rest of the land even though the green is about 20 yards higher than the tee box. No wind can be felt from tee to green and there are no trees to hide from the sun under. The first play through I pushed my cart all the way up to the top and about keeled over from the heat. The second time I left my cart down at the bottom by the next tee, grabbed a couple wedges and my putter, and saved my heart and calves the effort.

[James the Hogan Fan]

I am an American currently living/playing in Finland. The Finnish and UK attitudes towards pullcarts appear to be similar. At my home course, there are 50+ pullcarts in the parking lot every morning free to use for anyone playing that day, member/guest regardless, or even just to walk to the short game area at the back of the range. In contrast, we have only 12 electric carts for the whole course, and they usually sit unused in the cart barn. Lots of people have their own pullcarts with various bells and whistles, and as it happens, I have yet to play a course in Finland that wasn't very similar in this regard.

 

Being from the U.S, I believe the reason pullcarts aren't used so much has to do with the abundance of riding carts, up to and including mandatory riding carts. We can go into the reasons for this if we want to, i.e. moneymaker for course so encouraged/marketed, temps in many places making walking uncomfortable, residential development courses that have long walks between greens and tees, etc. But the point is in the U.S. riding is a viable if not preferred option, and often considered a part of the golfing experience.

 

If the average golfer is going to be riding 80% or more of the time anyway, why would they buy their own pushcart? And since the use of a course pushcart usually has a fee involved, people don't get into the habit either. When I started playing in Finland I never took one just because I didn't feel like I needed to. If your grocery store charged you $1 for the use of a shopping cart you would probably not take one either, and invent your own ways to deal with it. Then when you went to that shop across town with free carts, you might not use them out of habit.

 

I personally like pull carts quite a bit. I'm only 23 but I have had some bad upper back trouble and can barely carry a sunday bag 18 holes.

[ohioglfr]

As I've aged (65 years), I try to keep on my feet as much as possible. I used push carts all these years primarily because I'm cheap. The only exceptions were when I was with a group that wanted to ride, or if I'm playing 18 on a miserably hot day. Because of circulatory problems, I wear compression stockings and I have arthritis in my knees. Any exercise on my feet is helpful. The more I sit, the worse it gets.

[SNIPERBBB]

> @macedan said:

> > @Skaffa77 said:

> > I see a lot more pushcarts now that I used to. The only thing that prevents me from using a pushcart are some courses that are so spread out that you have 100+ yds between holes and massive elevation changes.

>

> I walked my father's 9 hole home course the other day and their 7th hole is odd. Somehow, both the tee box and the green sit down below the rest of the land even though the green is about 20 yards higher than the tee box. No wind can be felt from tee to green and there are no trees to hide from the sun under. The first play through I pushed my cart all the way up to the top and about keeled over from the heat. The second time I left my cart down at the bottom by the next tee, grabbed a couple wedges and my putter, and saved my heart and calves the effort.

 

When you walk, you need to learn all the shortcuts and where to strategically drop your bag/cart for the next hole. One particular hole at my course, I try to hit my drive right of the fairway towards the tee box of the next hole as that tee is straight uphill above the green

[North Butte]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @macedan said:

> > > @Skaffa77 said:

> > > I see a lot more pushcarts now that I used to. The only thing that prevents me from using a pushcart are some courses that are so spread out that you have 100+ yds between holes and massive elevation changes.

> >

> > I walked my father's 9 hole home course the other day and their 7th hole is odd. Somehow, both the tee box and the green sit down below the rest of the land even though the green is about 20 yards higher than the tee box. No wind can be felt from tee to green and there are no trees to hide from the sun under. The first play through I pushed my cart all the way up to the top and about keeled over from the heat. The second time I left my cart down at the bottom by the next tee, grabbed a couple wedges and my putter, and saved my heart and calves the effort.

>

> When you walk, you need to learn all the shortcuts and where to strategically drop your bag/cart for the next hole. One particular hole at my course, I try to hit my drive right of the fairway towards the tee box of the next hole as that tee is straight uphill above the green

 

This is just a quirk of a few guys I play with but the "shortcut" thing reminds me.

 

We have a Par 3 that plays over a pond. Yeah, like every other course you've ever seen. But anyway, the shortest route from the tee to the green is by walking around the left side of the pond. It's a 160-yard hole so the walk around the left side is maybe 220 yards or so (not a huge pond). I tee off, push my trolley to the green, then putt.

 

When you leave the green, it's literally about 25 steps to the next tee. We can be teeing off just seconds after the last guy putts. Nice, compact layout.

 

Here's the quirky thing. You can go right instead of left when leaving the Par 3 tee box, then circle quite a long way (maybe 250 yards?) around the right side of the pond just to get to the tee box for the next hole. There are several guys I know who will always go that way and drop their clubs off at the next tee. Then backtrack to the green where I'm waiting on them to come putt. It's literally more walking and more total time to do that but hey, I guess they don't have to carry their clubs those 25 steps after putting.

 

Anyway, not trying to threadjack. I just chuckle every time that happens and wonder what, exactly, they are trying to accomplish by taking the long way 'round the pond.

[SNIPERBBB]

Someone that failed geometry probably told them without full disclosure that it was shorter. My truck for the hole I mentioned only works if you hit your drive there. Hit the fairway or miss right, you just have to hoof it up the hill after you finish the hole.

[ddetts]

I always push execpt for the 1-2 charity scrambles I play in a year. I'll just echo what has mostly already been said, on why I think more people don't. Between casual play at different courses, leagues & tournaments at my home course, etc. this is what I can surmise.

 

* Course design - many newer (relative term here, but meaning moreso in recent decades) courses that are designed as parts of residential developments or around/through difficult terrain (through marshes, up and down mountains, etc) often have long distances between greens to the next tee. This makes walking both difficult for the walker and more time consuming for the overall pace of the round. Many of these types of courses don't allow walking if there's a lot of distance. I've never been to any of the GB&I countries or courses but from pictures and looking at maps it appears holes and the entire course are normally pretty close together.

* Weather - as many have mentioned the heat + humidity can pose challenging. I played a few weeks ago when it was around 95* and 90% humidity, and the "real feel" temp was close to 110*. I walked and I have never been so wet after a round of golf in my life. Also, I'm guessing I drank over a gallon of water and never once urinated (sorry for the overshare). Not many people are willing to do that, and I probably should've carted it.

* Mentality - it seems just many Americans have the idea cart golf is the only golf. In our league & my home course I've never seen so many young, healthy individuals who appear way more in shape than I am riding a cart every single round. To be fair, the course is hilly and has a few tough climbs but it's not that demanding.

* Parents setting examples for their kids - I see a lot of parents bring out their young kids (which I love seeing BTW), but they always take a cart. I get you're not going to get a 4 year old to carry a bag for 18 holes and you want to get them interested in golf. But if they never see you walk the course or your never walk it together why would they ever walk the course when they grow up?

* Last but not least, probably just a general sense of laziness for a lot of people. Not only do majority take carts but a good chunk are those folks that have to drive up right onto the edge of a tee box, park 2 feet off the green, never follow cart path only, etc. It's because they are lazy.

 

I don't really buy the perceived pace of play argument. Most non-private clubs on a weekend are slow (never under 4.5 hours unless your out super early) and having walkers with push carts isn't going to hold that up. I find the vast majority of push cart users I have played with understand pace of play & keeping up with the group in front and they do a good job of it.

[macedan]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> > @macedan said:

> > > @Skaffa77 said:

> > > I see a lot more pushcarts now that I used to. The only thing that prevents me from using a pushcart are some courses that are so spread out that you have 100+ yds between holes and massive elevation changes.

> >

> > I walked my father's 9 hole home course the other day and their 7th hole is odd. Somehow, both the tee box and the green sit down below the rest of the land even though the green is about 20 yards higher than the tee box. No wind can be felt from tee to green and there are no trees to hide from the sun under. The first play through I pushed my cart all the way up to the top and about keeled over from the heat. The second time I left my cart down at the bottom by the next tee, grabbed a couple wedges and my putter, and saved my heart and calves the effort.

>

> When you walk, you need to learn all the shortcuts and where to strategically drop your bag/cart for the next hole. One particular hole at my course, I try to hit my drive right of the fairway towards the tee box of the next hole as that tee is straight uphill above the green

 

Course strategy and Cart strategy are two separate but valuable things lol! At my home course after finishing number 4 where the green sits atop a hill, you must go back down the same hill you came up except you take the fork in the path opposite the number 4 fairway to get to number 5 tee box. After teeing off you then come back up the same path you took up to the top of the hill by the number 4 green and continue on the other side of the hill to the green. I learned right quick to leave the bag/cart at the top and bring one or two clubs I may tee off with.

[macedan]

> @ddetts said:

> * Course design - **Completely agree, long distances from greens to next tee and each green being atop hills can be demanding.**

> * Weather -** Lifelong Missouri summer survivor here, this is a huge aspect and again I completely agree.**

> * Mentality - **I'd also agree here. Besides televised professional tournaments, how many times do we really see peers walking the course? From what commercials show and passerby on the roads see, carts are just as much a part of golf as the ball.**

> * Parents setting examples for their kids - **Learning by example is key**

> * Last but not least, probably just a general sense of laziness for a lot of people. Not only do majority take carts but a good chunk are those folks that have to drive up right onto the edge of a tee box, park 2 feet off the green, never follow cart path only, etc. It's because they are lazy. **I left your explanation here just because I think this is huge. So many times have I seen people take their carts nearly onto the fringe, to the opposite side of the green from the cart path, off the cart path towards the tee box, onto par 3's etc., and it just drives me crazy because these are already high traffic areas and more stress on the turf only damages these areas more (and these are often the same people to complain about dead grasses in these areas).**

 

[Nessism]

American's getting fat and lazy, not necessarily in that order, is a factor.

[Argonne69]

I agree with most of the points here regarding course design, terrain, and heat/humidity. Most of the golfers I encounter that walk are older. Like myself, walking a round is basically the only real exercise I get. I spend my week sitting at a computer. Many of the young people I play with ride carts. I don't think they're lazy for the most part, but simply don't look at golf as a form of exercise. Most of them work out during the week, and playing golf in a cart is primarily a social thing, getting to hang out with friends and drink for a few hours.

[pingman_24]

I think it’s down to laziness. People can’t be bothered to walk.

 

As far as I’m concerned golf is a walking game and if you can walk you should. Dealing with the walking is part of the game and a score posted while riding a cart would always seem lesser to me than one posted when walking.

 

I like this quote from Peter Thompson: “Anyone who can walk can play golf. It is a walking game. To be a good golfer you must be a good walker; you must condition your legs.”

[spk7]

At my home course push carts have become extremely popular, almost every member that walks uses one

[caniac6]

I've used a push cart since I had shoulder problems a number of years ago. I had a heart attack last October, and got a Kangaroo electric cart over the winter. I really enjoy it, and has kept me walking. I ride if it is too hot, but I try to play early to avoid the heat. If it comess to the point where I have to ride, I will, but I think walking is part of playing, and I think it makes it more enjoyable.

[macedan]

> @spk7 said:

> At my home course push carts have become extremely popular, almost every member that walks uses one

 

Even if walker numbers remain the same I think an increase in pushcarts would be beneficial at both a health and even course maintenance level. Spines are no longer being compressed by the weight of a loaded bag on the back going up and down hills for 3-4 hours and the constant picking up and letting down of the bag relieves the shoulders quite a bit as well. From a course standpoint we are no longer looking at (arbitrary average weight estimate) a 200lb individual with a 25lb bag exerting this weight unequally across soft grasses as they shift from one pressure point to another.

[Bill Broderick]

Among my friends, walking isn't even a consideration for them until I tell them that I'm walking, but if the course doesn't have a 1/2 cart fee, I'll happily pay for half a cart (I don't know the last time that this was required). More often than not, they will all ride anyway. None of them are incapable of walking a course. I typically ride a stationary bike 45 minutes 5 days a week, On days when I walk 18, that takes the place of riding the bike. I'd much rather walk 18 than relax my way around the course only to have to exercise when I get home.

 

I have severe arthritis in both of my knees (due to being morbidly obese until 3-4 years ago) and need knee replacement surgery. But, the doctors don't want to do that surgery until I'm at least 60. So, I have at least 4 more years to go. Lately, my knees are getting pretty sore by the middle of the back 9. So, I've decided to stop carrying my bag and get a cart. As soon as Dick's has one of their 20% off or $50 off $250 sales, I will be picking up a Clicgear 3.5+. Maybe after doing so, I might convince more of my friends to try walking with me.

[@_the_crook]

as walking players , we were talking about the non-user friendly experience of riding this past weekend.

getting in, getting out, ducking under the roofline, pulling to the correct spot, walking to the green or approach area with your sticks....

nothankyou

 

 

 

[macedan]

 

 

@"Bill Broderick" said:

> Among my friends, walking isn't even a consideration for them until I tell them that I'm walking, but if the course doesn't have a 1/2 cart fee, I'll happily pay for half a cart (I don't know the last time that this was required). More often than not, they will all ride anyway. None of them are incapable of walking a course. I typically ride a stationary bike 45 minutes 5 days a week, On days when I walk 18, that takes the place of riding the bike. I'd much rather walk 18 than relax my way around the course only to have to exercise when I get home.

>

> I have severe arthritis in both of my knees (due to being morbidly obese until 3-4 years ago) and need knee replacement surgery. But, the doctors don't want to do that surgery until I'm at least 60. So, I have at least 4 more years to go. Lately, my knees are getting pretty sore by the middle of the back 9. So, I've decided to stop carrying my bag and get a cart. As soon as Dick's has one of their 20% off or $50 off $250 sales, I will be picking up a Clicgear 3.5+. Maybe after doing so, I might convince more of my friends to try walking with me.

 

Although my opinion is biased given my signature, you may take a look at TGW pushcarts. They are manufactured by caddytek and come with a few accessories that would be extra charges compared to the clicgear. That being said, idk if Clicgear accessories are compatible with TGW carts, such as the one that holds your bag more upright. However, TGW often does $20 discounts bringing their base cart down to $80, mid-level $119, and their clicgear like model to $139. They also have a 3 wheel swivel model that comes down to $169.

[Mike_C]

I grew up in northern lower Michigan, hating riding in carts when I played, always walked, of course the weather was never much of an issue as far as heat goes. When I did have to ride, it really goofed my up, like my timing was off, I didn't have time to take in the surroundings or something. It was hit, drive to the ball and ready to hit again, almost too soon.

 

I kept walking after moving to Santa Fe New Mexico, courses were hilly but the temperatures were never that bad and we had very low humidity. Then I moved to North Carolina, quite a shock with the heat and humidity, I tried walking all the time despite the weather, but when you play with people riding and you are walking, and you are totally soaked in sweat, it wears you down. I finally gave up walking pretty much when the temperatures were over 90. I have since moved to east Texas, the weather here is pretty much the same as North Carolina, perhaps a bit hotter, I will walk 8-9 months out of the year probably, ride from June through September. I will walk an occasional 9 after work in the summer, but that is about it.

But I agree about many people's attitude with walking, to many, it is not golf without riding and having a cooler full of beer (and the damn music playing on their phone in the cart). I get that some couldn't play if they had to walk due to physical limitations (I might be there in a few years), but to see young people riding around in a cart when the weather is nice just doesn't seem right with me.....

[KMeloney]

Push carts make no sense at my home course (in PA). Way too hilly. It's much easier to carry your bag up and down these hills than to use a push cart.