Is Legacy the Problem with Golf?

[MUNIGRIT]

The good ole days weren't always good and tomorrow aint as bad as it seems.

[Darth Putter]

 

[freowho]

Money will always have the final say on whether the game has a problem. As long as the pro's and sponsors and administrators are making lots of money the PGA tour has no need to change. The only clubs that have to question their business model are the struggling ones.

I'm probably just an old man being left behind but the problem I have is that there is a mismatch between equipment and golf course.

My personal opinion is that golf should primarily be a test of strategy and the skill to position the ball. Distance should be an advantage but the long hitter should still have to position the ball. De Chambeau made the point that he can carry a lot of the bunkers that are 290 off the tee, hence widening his landing area.

Golf courses are mostly built for scratch markers and how far they hit the ball but this is a poor model because technology means these measuring sticks are constantly moving. I mostly play at a lovely course in a country town. They make enough money each year to be comfortable but will never make enough money to renovate the course so the strategy is still based on the scratch marker from 50 years ago. The hazards and doglegs are all around the 250 yrd mark. The long hitter today is now flying these parts of the course and playing a much wider golf course then everyone else. I've stopped playing in tournaments, club championships etc and just enjoy a weekly comp with friends and lots of social hits. I wasn't the longest hitter 20 years ago anyway so it's not the distance that bothers me. I'm just not playing the same course as the long hitters.

What I think should be done?

The distance the ball is travelling has left so many golf courses behind and many of these courses can't afford to keep up. Many other sports have rolled back their equipment to protect their sport. Javelin and swimming are two off the top of my head. Unfortunately golf appears hamstrung by the threat of lawsuits. I think golf design and maintenance are also part of the solution. For example when Tiger flew the fairway bunkers on 18 at Augusta they pushed the tees back. They should have made that area out of bounds or redesigned the green to make play from the left difficult. Pushing the tees back is a never ending exercise. Instead of designing a course in segments or for a specific golfer (i.e. the good golfer) take a whole of game approach so it doesn't matter how far the ball goes.The British Open is my favourite tournament because there is more emphasis on positioning the ball and controlling the flight and bounce. Such a great mix of winners over the last 20 years despite the longer is better mantra.

So to answer the OP the game doesn't need to protect the legacy of past players but the spirit of the game.

[Pepperturbo]

@freowho - I agree with your post especially where you imply course design modification for big hitters; they are few in numbers. Though I am still in pretty good shape, IMO, thanks to technology, I am still carding good low-mid 70 scores and shooting for one to match my age, 70.
The problem is it's hard to make what's good for the goose, good for the gander; can't please everyone, no matter how any given issue is tackled. The British Open is my #1 event as well, for the most part, they leave the course alone. There, golf is about positioning the ball and run out as opposed to carrying the ball as far as possible, maybe cause wind prohibits carrying the ball. Yep, spirit of the game for each of us.

[puttfordoux]

On the pro level the game will constantly evolve because of the constant influx of new players.

I think most people look at it from an egocentric perspective...if the game has passed me by it means the game itself has passed by. Not true.

I rarely play anymore for two major reasons why most people don't play...the game is too hard and it is too expensive. But I still appreciate the game and what the pros can do.

Two hundred years from now people will remember Jack and Tiger in the same vein they remember Old Tom Morris today. They won't be at the forefront of people's minds.

 

[Nard_S]

So to answer the OP the game doesn't need to protect the legacy of past players but the spirit of the game. -freowho

Nailed it.

The big boy tour is about ball control, really not about distance, lots of guys can bang to their level but very few can command the ball behavior in the way they do. Course hazards have purpose, if they don't let's just plunk a hole in a Nebraska wheat field and call it a major.

I miss the game that required the long iron to work, where the wind actually moved the ball more & where -10 as a winning score was crazy low.

At least there's Tiger & Phil, because outside a few guys, -22 wins from them is boring manure.

[cxx]

That's interesting about tennis tweaking the ball for the venue. Maybe they could do the same for golf. All the ball manufacturers would play, but dial back the efficiency for a particular tournament venue. It would be more difficult for the player to adjust week to week, but that would be part of the skill set necessary to win.

[gvogel]

I think that this is what Mike Davis has in mind. Different balls for different courses.

[Ghost of Snead]

And how would they enforce using the designated ball of the week ?

[cxx]

With a label and a first tee check?

 

That would be real blatant cheating, like hiding a 15th club if someone hid some non-conforming balls.

[dlygrisse]

Most young people today don’t have the attention span for golf. Which is fine. I started playing golf before Tiger mania and I’m fine with it being more of a niche sport. I would rather play golf with a few people who are passionate about it than a bunch of people who are 1/2 assed into it.

Top Golf is perfect for those who just like to piddle around, and a few people who are exposed to this great game will become passionate golfers. I’m fine with that, it’s not a game for everyone, and it never will be

legacy is important, but it shouldn’t rule the day otherwise we would all still be playing hickory, which is cool if you are into that .....

At the end of the day Bryson isn’t going to win 30 majors and 200 tournaments. History has proven mental toughness, course management, the ability to make putts and precision iron play win majors. BDC will win some tournaments, but he will not dominate unless he figures out what made Jack, Tiger, Jones and Hogan great ..power was just a small piece of the puzzle .

 

[Ghost of Snead]

Hard to hide a 15th club ...

So they're going to label each week's ball differently ? Players change balls during the round as well, throw them to fans, lose them, whatever. Hard to enforce IMO.

[bscinstnct]

 

Thats interesting. Anecdotally, I seem to never see guys hitting 2,3,4. or even 5 irons anymore.

It seems like, no matter how long the par 4, they have nailed the drive far enough to have a short iron or wedge. And these days, they hit 7 irons like 200 yards anyway.

On the stupid long par 5s they blast a fw wood from the 250 or even 300 yard approach shots. Or, they have a wedge after the layup.

Id like to see a breakdown of the iron #s hit on approach shots now vs even in the early 2000s

[cxx]

Why not. They can label them differently now, by the dozen. Look at the customized labeling options today. Throw as many balls as you want, It just better have the right label.

[Ghost of Snead]

No need to do that if they have one ball for professional events and rest for amateurs. Really no need for different balls for different courses. Pro V1x for us and Pro V1x Tour for the Titleist tour players.

[marmaduk]

Yeah but the game of golf is not fun for me unless I know I’m playing the same ball as the pros do. I like to know that we are playing the same game. When I drive it 117yrds into the rough and shoot 109 from the tips at my muni I like to know I still play the exact same game as seen on TV

And that is the argument that someone who believes in Legacy will use. Legacy is the same reason someone can not find enjoyment in a tournament where the wining score is -21 and not -4. Legacy is believing in Par and not understanding Par is irrelevant.

[Nels55]

-22 is not a new thing! Check out the 1945 Portland Open, Ben Hogan won the tournament 27 strokes under par. Billy Casper won it in 1960 at 22 under par. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Open_Invitational

 

[marmaduk]

Yup. Exactly my point from the first post.

“Good old days” is a term that is often used when engaging in nostalgia, remembering only the positive aspects of times past while sweeping associated negatives under the rug. It has also been called the Golden Age Fallacy and I believe it is ruining the golf on tv experience.”

Its a false narrative where you think things should be “the way they used to be” when in reality that “time” never existed.

[Soloman1]

Y'all act like a ball for professional tour events is a new idea just spawned in this thread. People (including myself, since I'm an actual person) have been saying this for a couple of years.

No aluminum bats in major league baseball. You don't see people whining (whinging for our friends across the pond) about that.

Some of us appreciate the legacy of the game and don't always play clubs that look like plumbing tools. We like to play legacy equipment once in a while. I especially like it after trouncing people 30-40 years younger who are decked out in matching orange plastic-feeling clothing with a giant bag of space-age wonder clubs . . . :)

 

 

[gvogel]

The pros would use the same ball as everyone else some of the time, and they would use a different (reduced distance) ball some of the time. And if you wanted to, you could also use the different ball some of the time - perhaps from the forward tees.

How would they enforce the use of the designated ball? Golf is a game where players enforce the rules on themselves. i don't see a player cheating on his fellow players willingly.

[Ghost of Snead]

Why wouldn't they just use the reduced distance ball all of the time and adjust tee boxes ?

[gvogel]

If they use the "regular" ball in some tournaments, Titleist can't sue the USGA for loss of market share. Most non-pro players would still play the "regular" ball.

[Ghost of Snead]

That's assuming only one company would make the "pro" ball. Let all of the current manufacturers make it and apply a new set of "pro" ball specs to each.

Titleist would have the same share of the "pro" market as they do now. As for "some" tournaments, who decides which ones ? IMO, much better with new ball specs and play the same "pro" ball in all pro events.

[mahonie]

Isn’t the Pro V1/X the pro ball? I know a couple of lower handicappers at my course who play Pro Vs and a couple of pretentious guys who nobody else will play with but that’s it. Everybody I play with plays mid-range balls and nobody wastes £15/sleeve on an overrated ball that gets lost the same as the others.

The ‘pro’ ball already exists...idiots who think they’re playing the same as the pros spend a fortune every year on Pro Vs when they would be better off saving their money and playing Pinnacles.

[freowho]

No lob wedge.

We had a very good coach in Australia at the institute of sport who would make his young pupils play for 6 months without a lob wedge or sand wedge so they would learn how to use the bounce and loft of the club properly.

[wobgon]

How many threads have there been about this.....Seriously, i would like to know. Anyway to find out.....I would say at least 20. Maybe i am way low. Could be a lot more.

[oikos1]

Or you can hit a lob wedge for 10 minutes a day for six months and learn all sorts of ways to use the bounce "properly".

I don't understand the dislike for lob wedges. You can either hit one or you can't. It's not the club.

[bscinstnct]

 

You actually know what this thread is about?

 

; )

[oikos1]

Lol. There is a bit of wandering.

[freowho]

I was on a slightly different path. Not the dislike for people who won't learn to use a lob wedge. Dislike for people who won't learn how to use a basic sand wedge. Lob wedges are a cop out. I would like to see the maximum number of clubs reduced. Maybe down to 9 or 10.