2020 ANA Inspiration

[capking]

2 minutes ago, ebk said:

Well, she’s still in grade 12 so doesn’t need to worry about University for almost a year.  Already committed to Stanford, so she has some great opportunities.  And, seems like a well balanced young lady, to boot.

Ahh I must’ve miss heard, thought she was starting this year. Either way both of them have game, and had a great 2nd match this week.

[Argonne69]

2 hours ago, mallrat said:

Whether stands or that wall it completely changes the hole and shouldn’t be there. Why not just aim there? It’s a horrible rule, personal opinion as I hate that pro’s are allowed to aim at or launch a ball with no penalty. Why even bring the water into play,  every one of those balls would have gone in the water had that not been there. 

 

If the backstop wasn't there only 2 percent of players would go for the green. Last time I checked the backstop was available for all players. 

[Titleist_PT23]

1 hour ago, 18majors said:

@agolf1

 

Do you still follow the forum?  Would like to hear your 3 cents!

 

Hello, hello.  I haven't watched anything the last few weeks (unfortunately very busy), and only checked leaderboard so can't add much.

 

I was surprised the scores were as low as they were.  This course seems to have enough pins just over bunkers, angles, etc that getting shots close out of the rough is not easy in April, and I thought it would be near impossible if the greens were rock hard.  

 

I'm surprised so many of the Koreans are still back home.  Absent a big change in the virus situation, I assume the ones that haven't played yet are planning to take this year off (I'm assuming the Busan and Japan tournaments will ultimately be cancelled although maybe they can get enough people to play / support from both countries to make them happen).  Maybe they can play the beloved USWO at the end of the year...

 

For now, basically just checking in on how Minjee, Lydia, and In Gee are doing.  Lydia and In Gee both seem to have their heads in a different spot, and the natural talent should be able to get them some better finishes (vs last year).  But I still feel like the game is moving a bit, and if forced to bet I think maybe they could win at a rate of once every two years (say over the next 4 years --- of course either could get hot for a few months and collect a couple of trophies).  Hope I'm wrong but just think they are in the camp where a lot is going to need to go right in a week for them to win (vs. the handful of players that can get hot and go take it away from everyone else a couple times per year). 

 

Need to find someone new to follow.  I've never liked amateur golf, but I did watch Rose Zhang's US Women's Am highlights and like her swing/ball flight.  Nice to see her play well this week.

 

 

[PZero]

The backstop cheapens the hole big time.

 

My 3 favorites finished in the top 5. At least there was that.

[Argonne69]

6 minutes ago, PZero said:

The backstop cheapens the hole big time.

 

My 3 favorites finished in the top 5. At least there was that.

 

Many professional tournaments have backstops on the 18th hole, among other holes. Is it just this one, or does every event with one cheapen it? 

 

I don't have a problem with it. I don't think it's an easy up and down from behind the green. Based on years of watching the ANA, I don't think the proximity to the hole is any closer than those who lay up and hit wedge on the short par 5. 

 

[18majors]

@agolf1

 

Nice to hear from you!

Based on current form, I'd rate Lydia and Minjee first, closely followed by So Yeon.  In Gee is still next on a lower tier.

Rose Zhang, 17, is two years younger than Yealimi Noh.  She's a great player but you won't see too much of her until no earlier than 2022, even if she decides to rescind her commitment to Stanford University.

Keep in touch, my friend!

 

[Stooch]

2 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Many professional tournaments have backstops on the 18th hole, among other holes. Is it just this one, or does every event with one cheapen it? 

 

I don't have a problem with it. I don't think it's an easy up and down from behind the green. Based on years of watching the ANA, I don't think the proximity to the hole is any closer than those who lay up and hit wedge on the short par 5. 

 

 

I think the Sunday pin is the easiest when hitting the backstop, still no gimme IMO you have to have the right touch, Mirim's ball hadn't gone in the hole it was gonna go 20 feet by.  All other pin placements are a nightmare 2 of which you're coming down a pretty steep slope and the other pin you better pray you don't hit down the slope past the hole.  Using a different pin placement on Sunday would ruin all the great chances at Eagle IMO and thus remove some drama.

[OrangeGravy]

3 hours ago, mallrat said:

Whether stands or that wall it completely changes the hole and shouldn’t be there. Why not just aim there? It’s a horrible rule, personal opinion as I hate that pro’s are allowed to aim at or launch a ball with no penalty. Why even bring the water into play,  every one of those balls would have gone in the water had that not been there. 

It's bad enough on the tours with the grandstands everywhere, but when you intentionally block off a water hazard that takes away any risk is ridiculous. It screams minor leagues. They're pros. Make them hit the shot if they want an eagle try. 

[OrangeGravy]

17 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Many professional tournaments have backstops on the 18th hole, among other holes. Is it just this one, or does every event with one cheapen it? 

 

I don't have a problem with it. I don't think it's an easy up and down from behind the green. Based on years of watching the ANA, I don't think the proximity to the hole is any closer than those who lay up and hit wedge on the short par 5. 

 

I've never seen one that takes water out of play on an island green. Should they put a wall on the back of 17 at Sawgrass? It's a joke

[PZero]

47 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Many professional tournaments have backstops on the 18th hole, among other holes. Is it just this one, or does every event with one cheapen it? 

 

I don't have a problem with it. I don't think it's an easy up and down from behind the green. Based on years of watching the ANA, I don't think the proximity to the hole is any closer than those who lay up and hit wedge on the short par 5. 

 

OrangeGravy said exactly what I was going to say about taking the water out of play. Brooke went under it and still managed to stay out of the water.

Edited September 14, 2020 by PZero

[Argonne69]

28 minutes ago, OrangeGravy said:

I've never seen one that takes water out of play on an island green. Should they put a wall on the back of 17 at Sawgrass? It's a joke

 

Probably because there are no other finishing holes in professional golf that have an island green on the 18th. As noted earlier, the grandstands have been at the ANA for over 10 years, so they were simply recreating the same conditions as in recent years. Without the stands few players would go for it. Actually I think it would be closer to zero. Even the players that manage to not reach the backstop would be hard pressed to chance it without the safety net 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Argonne69

[OrangeGravy]

1 minute ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Probably because there are no other finishing holes in professional golf that have an island green on the 18th. As noted earlier, the grandstands have been at the ANA for over 10 years, so they were simply recreating the same conditions as in recent years. 

 

I understand it's been there for many years and it's been a joke every year. I also understand wanting to have eagle chances at the end, but doing it on an island green is WAAAAAAY to forced. It's Holy Moly TV show level bad. I would hate it if I was one of the longer players out there. They're taking away those player's advantage for the sake of what? It's not gonna draw any more viewership. 

[Argonne69]

15 minutes ago, OrangeGravy said:

I understand it's been there for many years and it's been a joke every year. I also understand wanting to have eagle chances at the end, but doing it on an island green is WAAAAAAY to forced. It's Holy Moly TV show level bad. I would hate it if I was one of the longer players out there. They're taking away those player's advantage for the sake of what? It's not gonna draw any more viewership. 

 

Funny, but the long hitters are generally the ones taking advantage of it. Today was my 48th viewing of a round of the ANA. I've watched plenty of shots into the green. 

 

IMHO, the grandstands aren't there to boost ratings. They are there to provide a great view of the 18th green for sponsors. With the practice putting green just behind the green, there's not really room for additional grandstands in the other side of the water. 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Argonne69

[Golf Dino]

21 minutes ago, OrangeGravy said:

I understand it's been there for many years and it's been a joke every year. I also understand wanting to have eagle chances at the end, but doing it on an island green is WAAAAAAY to forced. It's Holy Moly TV show level bad. I would hate it if I was one of the longer players out there. They're taking away those player's advantage for the sake of what? It's not gonna draw any more viewership. 

 

You mean bad like the old Batman tv show with Adam West and Burt Ward ... where they climbed up tall building with their bat rope and bat hook, while cameo celebrities would poke out of the windows to chat with the dynamic duo?  Where it attempted to look like they were climbing the tall building but the audience knew that the camera was just tilted sideways? ??

[mallrat]

34 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Probably because there are no other finishing holes in professional golf that have an island green on the 18th. As noted earlier, the grandstands have been at the ANA for over 10 years, so they were simply recreating the same conditions as in recent years. Without the stands few players would go for it. Actually I think it would be closer to zero. Even the players that manage to not reach the backstop would be hard pressed to chance it without the safety net 

 

 

 

That’s my point, they wouldn’t go for it without the stands, that pretty much is the definition of backstopping. If you go for it you are basically guaranteed par, to me that’s garbage. I have never seen an all reward no risk hole. It just doesn’t make sense

[capking]

41 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Probably because there are no other finishing holes in professional golf that have an island green on the 18th. As noted earlier, the grandstands have been at the ANA for over 10 years, so they were simply recreating the same conditions as in recent years. Without the stands few players would go for it. Actually I think it would be closer to zero. Even the players that manage to not reach the backstop would be hard pressed to chance it without the safety net 

 

 

 

Very true, ironically a course I play lots is 27 holes and 2 of the nines have par 4 finishing nines with water all along or close to island fairway and a shared island green. I think I have 2 pars on them haha

[Argonne69]

18 minutes ago, mallrat said:

That’s my point, they wouldn’t go for it without the stands, that pretty much is the definition of backstopping. If you go for it you are basically guaranteed par, to me that’s garbage. I have never seen an all reward no risk hole. It just doesn’t make sense

 

C'mon, there are plenty of all reward holes in professional golf, and the vast majority are created by temporary structures serving as backstops. How about the driveable par 4 at the Austin Country Club, host of the WGC Match Play event? No way any player attempts to drive the green without the backstop.

 

They may not all have water behind them, but the ability to get a free drop in a well manicured drop area vs. a nasty lie in thick rough or trampled down turf is mighty enticing. 

 

Edited September 14, 2020 by Argonne69

[Golf Dino]

13 minutes ago, mallrat said:

That’s my point, they wouldn’t go for it without the stands, that pretty much is the definition of backstopping. If you go for it you are basically guaranteed par, to me that’s garbage. I have never seen an all reward no risk hole. It just doesn’t make sense

 

 

In all seriousness, it is a sliding scale of sorts ... the risk/reward is whether you make eagle, birdie or par.  This was the hole that allowed So Yeon Ryu to make birdie to force a playoff with Lexi a couple of years back ... she went on to win.  But the grandstands never came into play ... she was a tad long ... it just rolled off of the back of the green into the rough.  SYR was able to pitch on and make a one-putt (it may have been for par and then Lexi bogeyed it afterwards to create the playoff).   Regardless, SYR made some great shots to win and she did not rely on the backstop physically ... maybe mentally, but not physically.

 

Also, I recall a terrific playoff between Stacey Lewis and Brittany Lincicombe a few years ago ... and they kept playing 18 over and over ... until Stacey pulled her approach to the left side whereas Bam Bam's 3 wood went to the middle left, caught the slope at the back and rolled down into birdie range for the win.

[mallrat]

I’m not trying to diminish Mirim’s win, just my feeling on a larger issue of professional tournament golf. 

[Argonne69]

 

Mirim missed 7 greens today, but only carded one bogie. That's an impressive short game. 

 

Brooke missed 2 greens, made par on one, but that double on the 13th was the difference.

 

Nelly missed four greens, but only managed par on one of them.

 

[grm24]

Nice two rounds on the weekend (-8) for Ariya even with a triple today. Hopefully she starts playing great again.

[Golf Dino]

1 hour ago, grm24 said:

Nice two rounds on the weekend (-8) for Ariya even with a triple today. Hopefully she starts playing great again.

 

 

Once she gets it going, look out.  For me, in many respects, she has been a bit of a "sleeping dragon" or "sleeping giant" in that she is so skilled and so strong with her distances, etc. that she can clean up a few tournaments in a row should she get things going again.  

[Golf Dino]

1 hour ago, mallrat said:

I’m not trying to diminish Mirim’s win, just my feeling on a larger issue of professional tournament golf. 

 

 

I understand what you're saying about it ... essentially, is the 18th too contrived with the placement of the stands and wall.  Regardless of being contrived or not, it does provide for some theatre and we saw some more of it today. 

 

Curiously,  though, what are your thoughts on 18 at Augusta National?  Doesn't it seem a tad anti-climactic after all of the excitement and drama that usually unfolds on Amen Corner and then through the par 5 15th, the par 3 16th? 

[ebk]

She’s committed to Stanford.

[ebk]

5 hours ago, 8602081 said:

You're right.. My mistake.. 

I guess it's only half brighter..

 

Still brighter for USA - Gabriela can’t play for the Euros...

 

[mallrat]

Read this, how is that not cheating? I get it’s working the rules to your advantage but it’s garbage. this is from Mirim’s caddie. 
 

Our play was to hit it into the middle of the green, let it run into the blue thing and get a free drop,” said caddie Matt Glczis. “Without that being there we probably have to lay up because none of your long clubs are going to hold the green — it’s too firm

[Langlands]

4 hours ago, mallrat said:

Read this, how is that not cheating? I get it’s working the rules to your advantage but it’s garbage. this is from Mirim’s caddie. 
 

Our play was to hit it into the middle of the green, let it run into the blue thing and get a free drop,” said caddie Matt Glczis. “Without that being there we probably have to lay up because none of your long clubs are going to hold the green — it’s too firm

It's not cheating because there is no rule that says you aren't allowed to do it. It's arguably not within the spirit of the game, although it should not have been an issue here as the "wall" should never have been put there in the first place.  

[Argonne69]

 

I wasn't shocked to see Katherine fall out of contention. They kept playing her up, but her record speaks volumes. She had a good week last week, but hasn't posted a top 20 or higher this season. She had one top 10 last year. 

 

Mel's had a good week with her first top 10 since the 2019 KPMG. 

 

Nice week for Maria. She posted her best finish in a major. 

[TerpFangolfer]

Yeah, the use of the word "cheating" is beyond ridiculous...the object was there for every player in the field - if Nelly could have hit the 18th fairway just 1 out of 2 tries she most likely wins.

I do  agree 100% that the optics suck - the blank wall. There would probably be much less outcry if they had just built the normal grandstand - heck, they could have let some of the volunteers/staff even into the stands near the end. I don't ever recall this level of outrage in the past...

[8602081]

5 hours ago, mallrat said:

Read this, how is that not cheating? I get it’s working the rules to your advantage but it’s garbage. this is from Mirim’s caddie. 
 

Our play was to hit it into the middle of the green, let it run into the blue thing and get a free drop,” said caddie Matt Glczis. “Without that being there we probably have to lay up because none of your long clubs are going to hold the green — it’s too firm

 

 

Nothing new about this..  Even PGA players do the same thing.  Game strategies change with the change on the environment..

The blue wall was in place of stadium seats..