2020 ANA Inspiration

[Yellow Jacket]

6 hours ago, Awsi Dooger said:

I was really shocked to see Nelly putting cross handed. When did that happen? She's never done that in all the times I've followed her in Florida events. And if she continues cross handed there won't be any reason for me to continue to follow her group, once following is actually available again.

 

I can't believe so many of these players and especially LPGA players view cross handed as an equal option, and not a weakness. I mentioned here years ago that once Lydia was tinkering all over the place on the greens and primarily reliant on cross handed from short range it was a sure sign she would not come close to matching expectation.

 

Nelly's miss off the tee is left. I've seen that numerous times. She doesn't miss often but when she does it's a pull, and especially when she is thinking too much. Last year at CME Saturday she missed an 18 inch par putt on 16 and then immediately pull hooked her drive on 17 into the left trees where she was forced to pitch out on the par 5. Then three more times she missed left off the tee in the Sunday round, notably on the par 5s including 14. Those two tee shots on par 5 18 yesterday were identical.

 

Bottom line, after Nelly made the par save on 17 to retain the lead, she never hit another good shot. That must-make birdie putt on 18 in the playoff was pathetically weak, but exactly what I would expect from someone who has switched to cross handed. Normally Nelly is very aggressive on putts like that.

 

I was reminded of Kristy McPherson, who led this event going in 18 but had it taken away via eagle from Brittany Lincicome. Brittany used the back slope and not a contrived backstop. Judy Rankin understood how asinine that wall was, but was overly tentative in calling it out until late on Sunday. It should have been a pronounced mockery all week. As others have mentioned, growing the rough back there was a solution that shouldn't have required 10 seconds thought, other than desperation to plaster the name of the sponsor regardless of impact on the actual golf.

 

I'm glad Nelly has benefitted on social media. I was very impressed with one retweet she made a few days ago. There is some worldy clarity in the LPGA, in contrast to the PGA, which I basically don't follow anymore due to the disgraceful tour mindset, and glaring again via recent "apology." 

 

 

If you start putting cross handed from a young age, it really is better. Gary Player even said that’s the one thing he would do differently if he started out playing today.

[deadsolid...shank]

I don’t like the wall. Just like so many holes we see on the men’s tour where there is a grandstand. Just blow it into the stands and get a drop. But I also agree it would be a fairly boring hole without, almost everyone would lay up. But I would really like to see some kind of risk (because there isn’t any right now), some difficult bunkers or something back there. Something that will keep the ball out  of the water so people will still go, but brings some serious risk or difficultly into that 3rd shot. 
 

And I think the hole at Austin Country Club is a perfect comparison. I can’t believe anyone would go for it with out the backstop. I wonder how many members do?  They’re not good holes to me, they “look” scarey and intimidating, but without the added bailouts, it’s a simple layup and wedge hole. 

[North Texas]

2 hours ago, 18majors said:

Justin Thomas leads backlash against decision to place advertising hoarding at back of 18th green at the Ana Inspiration

 

 

Thomas took to social media to vent his frustrations. “Cost @NellyKorda a major! Such a bad set-up on the last hole of a major,” Thomas tweeted under a picture of the ending the offending “wall”. “It takes the thought out of, ‘can I hold the green with a long iron/wood and not go over the green in water?’,” he later added. “Instead it’s blast into the wall, drop off edge of green. Birdie (or eagle for the champ!)”

Judy Rankin, the former Tour winner turned Golf Channel analyst, noted there is usually a corporate grandstand there anyway but pleaded with the LPGA to fix the farce for 2021. “Today’s players are so talented that they would find a way to deal with an island green,” she said. “They do not need an assist!”

 

Serious question here. Did all these people complaining about the blue wall complain when the grandstands were there? Don't remember it if they did but I could be wrong. 

 

And is Justin complaining about the hole at Austin Country Club that others have mentioned. Probably not. Gee, I wonder why.

Edited September 15, 2020 by North Texas

[stingerfade]

8 hours ago, cardoustie said:

at Augusta they don't put grandstands behind the 15th green for a reason, same hole design here .. put the stands left of the green ands problem solved

 

Sorry to see Brooke putt so poorly and on 13 she had no reason not to hack out a 8 iron short left of the green

Way more room behind 15 tho. They should put a bunker back there and grandstands left. That could work?

[North Texas]

8 hours ago, cardoustie said:

at Augusta they don't put grandstands behind the 15th green for a reason, same hole design here .. put the stands left of the green ands problem solved

 

Sorry to see Brooke putt so poorly and on 13 she had no reason not to hack out a 8 iron short left of the green

 

Way more room behind 15 at Augusta. Not even close to same thing. 

[ChronicSlicer]

12 hours ago, Kaysquare said:

Congrats to Mirim Lee!  I had a funny feeling that she might very quietly walk away with the win, because so much attention was paid to Korda & Henderson.  Mirim has always had the most beautiful swing with tempo that can't be beat.  

Even better than Amy Yang??

[Argonne69]

26 minutes ago, ChronicSlicer said:

Even better than Amy Yang??

 

No, nothing is smoother than Amy's swing. Even Fred Couples is impressed. ?

 

[Argonne69]

1 hour ago, North Texas said:

 

Serious question here. Did all these people complaining about the blue wall complain when the grandstands were there? Don't remember it if they did but I could be wrong. 

 

And is Justin complaining about the hole at Austin Country Club that others have mentioned. Probably not. Gee, I wonder why.

 

I don't recall ever hearing a peep out of anyone about the grandstands before. I've certainly never heard a top PGA pro complain about their backstops, err, I mean corporate hospitality tents.

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Argonne69

[Golf Dino]

15 hours ago, mallrat said:

I guess what my issue is is more with the the set up than with the players. I understand you can’t fault the players and agree to an extent. I blame it on the way the tour set it up. 

 

 

That's something I think everyone can agree on.  It is the responsibility of the organizers not the players.  I mean after all, it is not a marathon with a set course that everyone must adhere to ... but rather there is a lot of room for creativity and "ingenuity" ... 

[Golf Dino]

12 hours ago, WestTex said:

Wait, what?!?!  They just tilted the camera?!  Dang, next thing you'll tell me my dog didn't really just go to live on a farm upstate...

 

All in all, a fun tournament.  Very impressed with Zhang's showing, looking forward to seeing more, but not with any expectations akin to Wie and Freddy Adu (for those that follow that sport) and their resultant not-as-impressive-as-hyped careers.  *I still argue Wie's career has been very impressive, just not as hyped.

 

Great win by Lee and luck certainly played a role, but that's the game.  Not to take anything away from her.  I was surprised at how bummed I was that Nelly didn't win, I was really starting to pull for her from Saturday.  Once In Gee was out of it I reverted to my "oh well let's just watch some good golf" not giving too much.  Then on Sunday I kept watch of the boards while doing my honey-do list and starting rooting for Nelly to get one.

 

I was finally able to see In Gee during more than one round since, I don't know, 2017?  That made my weekend.  I still think she has the most beautiful natural swing in golf, makes it look effortless.

 

SHP, we need to talk about your pants....  My mother-in-law was not impressed.

 

Freddy Adu ... wasn't he better than Pele, Maradona, Messi and CR7?  ?

[mallrat]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I don't recall ever hearing a peep out of anyone about the grandstands before. I've certainly never heard a top PGA pro complain about their backstops, err, I mean corporate hospitality tents.

 

Honestly, I didn’t even know there was water behind the green because of the suites/stands being there and I’ve been to the tourney twice.
 

I’ve always hated the set up where stands, etc come into play. The wall completely changes the way the course architect wanted the hole to be played. 

[OrangeGravy]

14 hours ago, munichop said:

I agree with Stooch and others that the wall allowed players to reach with a little more reward than risk. The same could have been done with thick rough. If Nelly hit the fairway in regulation she could have won using the wall.  She didn’t. Lee meanwhile who had been fighting her driver all week found the fairway both times she needed it. Over the years this hole has had many dramatic finishes both great and tragic. While it is contrived the hole allows top players to test their strategy and skill.  
 For me it would play better as a long par 4 with no wall where shorter clubs can hold the green but emphasizing playing from the fairway. 

That sentence right there should never have to be used in any golf competition and certainly not one where it's protecting the players from going in the water

[OrangeGravy]

8 hours ago, 18majors said:

Justin Thomas leads backlash against decision to place advertising hoarding at back of 18th green at the Ana Inspiration

 

 

Thomas took to social media to vent his frustrations. “Cost @NellyKorda a major! Such a bad set-up on the last hole of a major,” Thomas tweeted under a picture of the ending the offending “wall”. “It takes the thought out of, ‘can I hold the green with a long iron/wood and not go over the green in water?’,” he later added. “Instead it’s blast into the wall, drop off edge of green. Birdie (or eagle for the champ!)”

Judy Rankin, the former Tour winner turned Golf Channel analyst, noted there is usually a corporate grandstand there anyway but pleaded with the LPGA to fix the farce for 2021. “Today’s players are so talented that they would find a way to deal with an island green,” she said. “They do not need an assist!”

The only thing that was missing from that wall was a hopper & funnel attached to feed the ball back onto the green. They should've just gone whole hog and jumped the shark completely

[OrangeGravy]

3 hours ago, mallrat said:

Honestly, I didn’t even know there was water behind the green because of the suites/stands being there and I’ve been to the tourney twice.
 

I’ve always hated the set up where stands, etc come into play. The wall completely changes the way the course architect wanted the hole to be played. 

I had no idea watching that tournament all these years that there was water back there either. I don't like that stuff on any hole in any tournament, but I understand why it's there. It's annoying, but it's really just making the next shot shorter in most cases and I've never seen it BLOCK a penalty area. That is the most egregious part. Kirk's ball stopping on the man made diving platform and not going in the water or pond or swimming pool was a bad look as well. 

[Golfingfanatic]

5 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

I don't recall ever hearing a peep out of anyone about the grandstands before. I've certainly never heard a top PGA pro complain about their backstops, err, I mean corporate hospitality tents.

 

There is a difference between a wall and a grandstand. Whilst I would say that the grandstands are not ideal on this hole (but that's another discussion) at least they serve a purpose. People can sit there and watch golf. When fans are not allowed there is no need for grandstands nor a wall behind the 18th green. It cheapens the hole and doesn't play at all how the architect must've envisioned it..

[Argonne69]

4 hours ago, OrangeGravy said:

The only thing that was missing from that wall was a hopper & funnel attached to feed the ball back onto the green. They should've just gone whole hog and jumped the shark completely

 

Oh, you mean like the Sunday pin placement on the 16th at Augusta National?

 

[Argonne69]

3 hours ago, Golfingfanatic said:

There is a difference between a wall and a grandstand. Whilst I would say that the grandstands are not ideal on this hole (but that's another discussion) at least they serve a purpose. People can sit there and watch golf. When fans are not allowed there is no need for grandstands nor a wall behind the 18th green. It cheapens the hole and doesn't play at all how the architect must've envisioned it..

 

Have you been watching the PGA tournaments? Almost all have sponsor billboards behind many of the greens. It's advertising for the sponsor/event. 

[deadsolid...shank]

11 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Have you been watching the PGA tournaments? Almost all have sponsor billboards behind many of the greens. It's advertising for the sponsor/event. 

I think the consensus is that people don’t anything artificial that is added that drastically changes how a hole is played...on any tour. 

[Golfingfanatic]

13 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Have you been watching the PGA tournaments? Almost all have sponsor billboards behind many of the greens. It's advertising for the sponsor/event. 

This shouldn't be about PGA vs LPGA vs any other tour. It's dumb no matter where it happens. 

[deadsolid...shank]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Oh, you mean like the Sunday pin placement on the 16th at Augusta National?

 

You mean where they have to hit the ball to a certain spot on the green so it will feed to the hole?  A spot or area that is how big?

Doesn’t seem at all comparable to a backstop that is what, 20-25’ long. Let’s face it, on that second shot the only concern is striking the ball solidly enough to carry the water. Nerves coming into play on the last hole of a major, player maybe not feeling completely in control of their swing?  No worries, take a couple extra clubs to make sure the carry is there and then let the backstop do the rest. 
I realize you’re a huge LPGA fan, but people aren’t blaming the players, just the setup. Because it’s bad.....on any tour. 

[Naptime]

Without the wall, critics would argue that this year's winner would not have won in other years. Either way someone would complain.

[Ignatius Reilly]

1 minute ago, Naptime said:

Without the wall, critics would argue that this year's winner would not have won in other years. Either way someone would complain.

I was about to post a very similar thought.  

 

They had to make a choice - make it play the same as other years, for consistency and comparability, or do it differently this year.  

 

As for the artificiality of courses full of billboards, leaderboards, hospitality tents, tv towers etc.....  they all interfere with the course playing as the architect intended.  That's the price we pay for being able to watch professional golf.  It's what draws the money that draws the best in the world.

 

If you want to watch pure golf, just pop round your local course on men's night.  They won't be anywhere near the best players in the world, probably not even the best in you town.  But it will be played on a course that the architect envisioned....

[8602081]

2019

 

2018:

 

2017:

 

[Golf Dino]

1 hour ago, Ignatius Reilly said:

I was about to post a very similar thought.  

 

They had to make a choice - make it play the same as other years, for consistency and comparability, or do it differently this year.  

 

As for the artificiality of courses full of billboards, leaderboards, hospitality tents, tv towers etc.....  they all interfere with the course playing as the architect intended.  That's the price we pay for being able to watch professional golf.  It's what draws the money that draws the best in the world.

 

If you want to watch pure golf, just pop round your local course on men's night.  They won't be anywhere near the best players in the world, probably not even the best in you town.  But it will be played on a course that the architect envisioned....

 

Yes ... with a dash of mulligans, a sprinkle of blading the ball, and a generous helping of "gimme's" ? ... at least with many men's nights!  

[deadsolid...shank]

7 hours ago, Naptime said:

Without the wall, critics would argue that this year's winner would not have won in other years. Either way someone would complain.

Isn’t that the basic point of the argument?  That without the wall someone else probably wins. Because the wall played a huge part in the win. Although in finding it difficult to find the relevance in whether this year’s winner would have won in previous years. Maybe the point is going right over my head.....it wouldn’t be the first time. 

[ThinkingPlus]

33 minutes ago, deadsolid...shank said:

Isn’t that the basic point of the argument?  That without the wall someone else probably wins. Because the wall played a huge part in the win. Although in finding it difficult to find the relevance in whether this year’s winner would have won in previous years. Maybe the point is going right over my head.....it wouldn’t be the first time. 

They wanted a consistent setup to what it has been in the past.

[Argonne69]

1 hour ago, deadsolid...shank said:

Isn’t that the basic point of the argument?  That without the wall someone else probably wins. Because the wall played a huge part in the win. Although in finding it difficult to find the relevance in whether this year’s winner would have won in previous years. Maybe the point is going right over my head.....it wouldn’t be the first time. 

 

We don't know that. They didn't play without the wall, so anything is possible. Maybe Miram holes out for eagle from 100 yds out on her final hole. She holed out three times on Sunday, so anything is possible. I don't think chipping in from the back of the green for eagle on the 18th is any easier than holing out a wedge. Both are rare.

 

Sei Young holed out a wedge years back for eagle to force a playoff against Inbee, and won in the playoff. 

[Argonne69]

10 hours ago, deadsolid...shank said:

You mean where they have to hit the ball to a certain spot on the green so it will feed to the hole?  A spot or area that is how big?

Doesn’t seem at all comparable to a backstop that is what, 20-25’ long. Let’s face it, on that second shot the only concern is striking the ball solidly enough to carry the water. Nerves coming into play on the last hole of a major, player maybe not feeling completely in control of their swing?  No worries, take a couple extra clubs to make sure the carry is there and then let the backstop do the rest. 
I realize you’re a huge LPGA fan, but people aren’t blaming the players, just the setup. Because it’s bad.....on any tour. 

 

The landing spot at Augusta is huge for a pro. The backstop at the ANA's 18th is no guarantee of an easy up and down for birdie. Lots of pars were made from back there. Brooke used the backstop in the playoff, and failed to make birdie. Plenty of birdies were made by those who laid up.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Argonne69

[Stooch]

51 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

The landing spot at Augusta is huge for a pro. The backstop at the ANA's 18th is no guarantee of an easy up and down for birdie. Lots of pars were made from back there. Brooke used the backstop in the playoff, and failed to make birdie. Plenty of birdies were made by those who laid up.

 

No Brooke missed her landing spot by about 5 feet in the Playoff or she would have had an eagle putt, she hit the slope at the front of the green and it stop there and 3 putted from the spot.  If she was 3 feet shorter with her approach it probably would have rolled back into the drink.

[deadsolid...shank]

1 hour ago, Argonne69 said:

 

The landing spot at Augusta is huge for a pro. The backstop at the ANA's 18th is no guarantee of an easy up and down for birdie. Lots of pars were made from back there. Brooke used the backstop in the playoff, and failed to make birdie. Plenty of birdies were made by those who laid up.

Huge?  Guess we’ll just have to disagree on that. 
Heck of a lot easier to get up and down for birdie with a 20 yard chip than it is from 100 yards. 
 

@ThinkingPlus. I understand they wanted the consistency, similar to previous years. I just it’s bad in previous years as well.