PGA Tour Playoffs fix

[ray9898]

13 hours ago, PHILsThemannnn said:

It's stupid. You could technically win all 4 majors and still not be the number 1 seed going into the Tour Championship just because the playoff events carry so much weight. 600 for a major win, 2000 for winning a playoff event

 

Of course......they won a PLAYOFF EVENT.  It can't work any other way.

[turles20]

For all the comments saying that the Majors need to be worth more, look at the European's Tour Race to Dubai Standings. Everyone at the top of the list is Major and WGC event winners.

 

Billy Horschel is 4th only because he won the WGC Dell Match play, while Garrick Higgo is 18th and he won twice on the European Tour this year. I laugh every time they show the standings.

 

My point is that if you weight the Majors too heavily, you could have non PGA tour players leading the PGA Tour Fedex cup race. The PGA Tour would not like that.

[Titleist99]

I was amazed that Patrick Reed made the tour championship.....but a lot of players had the opportunity to knock him out and failed to do so. Guess they have to play better.

[me05501]

10 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

I was amazed that Patrick Reed made the tour championship.....but a lot of players had the opportunity to knock him out and failed to do so. Guess they have to play better.

 

That is a huge surprise. 

[golfortennis]

33 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

That is a huge surprise. 

 

Or a failing of the current system.

[me05501]

1 minute ago, golfortennis said:

 

Or a failing of the current system.

 

I'm sure the Tour has its smartest nerds working on the points formula, but it would be impossible for them to predict every possible eventuality. Maybe Reed sitting out both playoff events and still sneaking into the TC will result in a point system tweak, but who knows. 

 

One thing is for certain: the Tour has at least some goals that are different from the goals of the players, the fans, fairness, etc. and those goals will impact the points system at least as much as public or player opinion. 

 

PReed is a draw, especially compared to the other names around the bubble, so my guess is that the Tour is AOK with him sneaking in. 

[golfortennis]

55 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

I'm sure the Tour has its smartest nerds working on the points formula, but it would be impossible for them to predict every possible eventuality. Maybe Reed sitting out both playoff events and still sneaking into the TC will result in a point system tweak, but who knows. 

 

One thing is for certain: the Tour has at least some goals that are different from the goals of the players, the fans, fairness, etc. and those goals will impact the points system at least as much as public or player opinion. 

 

PReed is a draw, especially compared to the other names around the bubble, so my guess is that the Tour is AOK with him sneaking in. 

 

And there is the rub.  As you say, someone is a draw, so they want them through.  Even though it's "playoffs", a guy can get "beat", or "not win", but still get through, cause, reasons.

 

Maybe they should just have guys getting byes straight into some events.  That might be better than this.

 

[Titleist99]

The leaders earned strokes coming in, but they all must play well to take home the top prize.....Which is totally insane, $15M plus a boat load of perks. good time to be a high level Golfer.....IMO

[iutodd]

Not to put another half-baked idea out there but what if, instead of giving guys strokes in the Tour Championship, they gave them strokes for the FIRST TWO events?  So...the top 10 start at -10 and then something like 11-25 are -8 and on down the line....And then each week it was just a straight up competition: finish in the top 70 at the NT to move on to the BMW.  Finish in the top 30 at the BMW to get to the Tour Championship.  Then the Tour Championship nobody gets strokes and it's just about who plays the best that week.  Maybe no cutline at the first event to keep the drama up for the weekend?  Or like a T90 cutline or something like that?

 

It would seem to reward those players for a great season by giving them as much advantage as possible to start out the playoffs...but then demand that they play well in each event to move on.  And then the Tour Championship is just about who plays well enough that week to win.

 

Also the Tour Championship is just so freaking boring to watch.  30 guys in 15 twosomes playing along is just boring.  Here's my idea: instead of top 30 make it to East Lake it's the Top 36.  Then the Tour Championship is Shotgun Start!

[larrybud]

On 9/2/2021 at 12:39 AM, tw_focus said:

No, the real fix is to make the finals match play. It's a joke to have a tourney with players starting off with free strokes. Make it match play, and give the top players byes into the later rounds. 30th place has to win 6-7 matches for the title, but 1st place has to win only 3-4.

 

Match play is awful for TV when there's 4 players on the course.

 

Fact of the matter is that most tournaments in general don't come down to the wire. Whether you give guys strokes or not doesn't change that fact, especially since only 30 players are in the field. The odds that it's close down the stretch is pretty low.

 

I say dump the stroke advantage in the final round, and instead give those players mulligans they can use anywhere but on the green! C'mon, let's do it!

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by larrybud

[NormanFan]

On 9/4/2021 at 2:08 PM, iutodd said:

Not to put another half-baked idea out there but what if, instead of giving guys strokes in the Tour Championship, they gave them strokes for the FIRST TWO events?  So...the top 10 start at -10 and then something like 11-25 are -8 and on down the line....And then each week it was just a straight up competition: finish in the top 70 at the NT to move on to the BMW.  Finish in the top 30 at the BMW to get to the Tour Championship.  Then the Tour Championship nobody gets strokes and it's just about who plays the best that week.  Maybe no cutline at the first event to keep the drama up for the weekend?  Or like a T90 cutline or something like that?

 

It would seem to reward those players for a great season by giving them as much advantage as possible to start out the playoffs...but then demand that they play well in each event to move on.  And then the Tour Championship is just about who plays well enough that week to win.

 

Also the Tour Championship is just so freaking boring to watch.  30 guys in 15 twosomes playing along is just boring.  Here's my idea: instead of top 30 make it to East Lake it's the Top 36.  Then the Tour Championship is Shotgun Start!

 

I'm all for staggering the first event but after that, I say just make all your strokes cumulative across 12 rounds.  So whatever you end up with at event #1 carries over to event #2 and then the TOUR Championship.

 

Granted, that has the problem of someone running away with stuff too much but if its a playoff then just have it keep going through all 3 events.

[Shilgy]

So to summarize….everyone hates the golf playoffs and has a brilliant idea on how to fix them.

 

 

Unfortunately every single idea given in this thread contradicts the others!

[Snoop Golfie Dogg]

I think some sports are simply not meant to be "playoff" sports.  Golf is one of them.  Auto racing is another.  That's why fans of both of those sports complain about the stupid playoff systems that have been implemented. 
 

Personally, I had no issue with the winner of the Tour Championship being a different player than the winner of the FedEx Cup.  I actually thought that made it more entertaining.  There were two competitions taking place at the same time and it was fun to keep up with who was leading both.

 

Frankly, I care less about the playoff events now than I ever have.  The whole thing is contrived.  Golf revolves around the 4 majors.  Always has, always will.

[golfortennis]

I think it was Michael Breed who said that one of the big issues with this week anyway is that it shouldn't count as a tournament win if you start from a staggered start.  It can determine the cup champ, but shouldn't be a "tour championship" with someone "winning" a tournament.  

[NV825]

My idea: Qualify the top 36 players to East Lake. Thursday and Friday now become match play days for players #5-36 with single round elimination to get down to the last remaining 4, while the top 4 players are rewarded with auto qualifying and get to skip this portion. Saturday and Sunday turn into a 2-day stroke play tournament with the field of 8 starting even. The benefit to the top 4 is coming in fresh for the final 2 days vs. the other 4 players who just battled there way through 3 rounds to get in, and no gimmick starting strokes needed.

[freeze16172002]

It's just a dumb idea when the player who scored the lowest over the 4 rounds doesn't win the tournament

[foreplease]

Aside: Doesn't spotting players strokes in a tournament break the Rules of Golf? I can't be certain yet, but the Committee (PGA Tour) does not have the ability to obviate a Rule (or create a new one), particularly this stroke spotting...

[Loki]

1 hour ago, foreplease said:

Aside: Doesn't spotting players strokes in a tournament break the Rules of Golf? I can't be certain yet, but the Committee (PGA Tour) does not have the ability to obviate a Rule (or create a new one), particularly this stroke spotting...

You're kidding right? The PGA Tour doesn't have to follow the rules of golf and actually doesn't. For instance, a drop zone is a local rule to reduce pace of play. If you play in a USGA event, they don't use DZ.

[bscinstnct]

The fix was totally in on that!

 

Not sure how the bookies pulled it off. But you tellin me Cantaloo beat BD and Rahmbo fair and square?!

 

 

 

 

[OldCuss]

Many interesting proposals and perhaps, as one has correctly noted, many conflicting fixes. What might be helpful is agreement on the underlying logic for the tournament, that is, what does it mean to say tour championship? Once that is established, it would be easier to assess the proposals for their efficacy.

 

Regardless of what tour championship means, I would prefer a modification to the current payout levels. The tour likes to tout its role in promoting charity, its commitment to social responsibility - something that many fans value and appreciate - thus I would like to see more given to this and a little less to winnings.

 

Old Cuss

[Shilgy]

3 hours ago, freeze16172002 said:

It's just a dumb idea when the player who scored the lowest over the 4 rounds doesn't win the tournament

Rahm and Na do get credit for the win in the rankings.

 

http://www.owgr.com/

 

Funny how so many don’t like the idea of the guy with low score not winning….and then suggest match play where the winner is likely not the guy with the lowest score of the week!

 

And we don’t know exactly what Cantlay would have shot if they started even.  But he played the best golf the last couple weeks by my estimation. If Rahm had played better last week it would have been him with the lead.  
 

But he didn’t.

[golfortennis]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

Rahm and Na do get credit for the win in the rankings.

 

http://www.owgr.com/

 

Funny how so many don’t like the idea of the guy with low score not winning….and then suggest match play where the winner is likely not the guy with the lowest score of the week!

 

And we don’t know exactly what Cantlay would have shot if they started even.  But he played the best golf the last couple weeks by my estimation. If Rahm had played better last week it would have been him with the lead.  
 

But he didn’t.

 

Um, when you play stroke play, the guy who hits the fewest strokes wins.  Saying match play invalidates the argument suggests match play is a parallel, which it is not.  Head to head would be more like playoffs though.  

 

Credit for a win in rankings is nice, but if the tour doesn't consider it a win, that means exemptions, etc., are impacted.  If Rahm starts struggling at 37, and has 19 career wins.... it would sure sting that the lifetime exemption is "one" win away, even though he should have had a playoff for it. 

 

 

[Shilgy]

29 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Um, when you play stroke play, the guy who hits the fewest strokes wins.  Saying match play invalidates the argument suggests match play is a parallel, which it is not.  Head to head would be more like playoffs though.  

 

Credit for a win in rankings is nice, but if the tour doesn't consider it a win, that means exemptions, etc., are impacted.  If Rahm starts struggling at 37, and has 19 career wins.... it would sure sting that the lifetime exemption is "one" win away, even though he should have had a playoff for it. 

 

 

Na might have won the playoff, who knows?  If Rahm finishes with 19 the Memorial this year might sting more.

 

My biggest point is no one likes the format….and every suggestion on how to “fix” it contradicts every other suggestion on what’s better. So we would gain nothing with a change.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

It's pretty clear that at least in WRX land, some of the biggest golf nerds in the world,  the Tour championship and it's playoffs mean little when compared to the majors. Even all three events combined didn't generate as much banter as the least talked about major. 

 

 

 

[Frankensteins Monster]

Playoffs are as perfect as they're going to get. It's less complicated, all of the top performing players for the year make the final round, and it's guaranteed ratings because everyone playing well those three weeks will be on TV on the weekend.

 

Matchplay is a ratings disaster and will NEVER happen for the playoffs, nor should it.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Frankensteins Monster

[Bad9]

On 8/31/2021 at 9:28 PM, Titleist84 said:

1) The regular season points only get you into the playoffs. After that the playoff events should have no cuts and the top x players move on to the next week.

 

2) Change the field sizes to 70, 50, 30.  No other sport let's everyone into the playoffs.

 

3) Use courses that have held majors.

 

4) Everyone starts at even par and whoever wins the Tour Championship wins the FedEx Cup.  

 

 

 

 

 

I have been saying the same thing for years.

[Samps]

Instead of giving strokes how about mulligans?   It would be silly, but interesting debating on when to use the mulligan.