Anyone Have An Idea of What TM’s Driver Plans Are for 2022?

[SMUGamer]

2 hours ago, BirdieBob said:

 

 

If that is a pic of the face after 100 hits then any worry about the carbon face is gone.

 

 

Way premature for that, let's wait after of year of sandy range balls, then we will know. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by SMUGamer

[Carolina Golfer 2]

9 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

Way premature for that, let's wait after of year of sandy range balls, then we will know. 

If you listen to @knudson81podcast on the Stealth.  You will hear he makes it vey clear that won’t be an issue.  
 

it was a fun listen by the way, hearing how it was practically his own personal Kingdom for a day! 

[Red4282]

Another interesting test. Another one where that spin concerns me 😐

 

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Red4282

[SMUGamer]

16 minutes ago, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

If you listen to @knudson81podcast on the Stealth.  You will hear he makes it vey clear that won’t be an issue.  
 

it was a fun listen by the way, hearing how it was practically his own personal Kingdom for a day! 

Might check out his podcast, thanks. But, his time with it was very limited. My point is, let's wait for an active golfer that has truly spent months and months with It on the range with sandy balls and on course - then that will be a true test given many that pay $600 for this driver would like it to last years before they upgrade. If TM did a full year or more of testing of this carbon face they should share those results to quell the concerns of face durability thats impossible to determine at this point. 

[SMUGamer]

24 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Another interesting test. Another one where that spin concerns me 😐

 

 

Just watched it. The Rogue blew away the Stealth in overall performance. And, this is with a tester that has a wonderful swing and strike pattern. The spin he got with the Stealth in this video was perfectly consistent with the spin he got on course in his prior video. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by SMUGamer

[Bye]

2 hours ago, Red4282 said:

What about the crown didnt you like?

I don’t like the contrast between the matt black/carbon section and the gloss line, it looks like a piece of tape. 

[Red4282]

3 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

Just watched it. The Rogue blew away the Stealth in overall performance. And, this is with a tester that has a wonderful swing and strike pattern. 

Explain how you got to that conclusion please.

[Red4282]

2 minutes ago, Bye said:

I don’t like the contrast between the matt black/carbon section and the gloss line, it looks like a piece of tape. 

Gotcha, doesnt bother me so much. I guess that goes with any driver, cant please everyone on looks.

[Bye]

2 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Gotcha, doesnt bother me so much. I guess that goes with any driver, cant please everyone on looks.

 Very true, it’s been a while since I’ve not liked the look of a TM driver.

 

If it turns out to be less fade bias I might be tempted.

 

[70sinsight]

20 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

Might check out his podcast, thanks. But, his time with it was very limited. My point is, let's wait for an active golfer that has truly spent months and months with It on the range with sandy balls and on course - then that will be a true test given many that pay $600 for this driver would like it to last years before they upgrade. If TM did a full year or more of testing of this carbon face they should share those results to quell the concerns of face durability thats impossible to determine at this point. 

True, though I wonder why there is so much questioning of this in the golf community vs the baseball/softball community when carbon fiber composites rolled out? I've played/coached for going on three decades now. If you take just our spring season team, kids are taking at minimum 500 swings that are making contact with the ball. This excludes open gym time and travel ball time. From January through June, a conservative estimate would be for a varsity player to make contact 5,000 times with a non-stationary 5 oz ball traveling between 75 and 90 mph. I know it is apples and oranges compared to golf and the golf ball, but I've only ever seen two bats fail, and that was due to the adhesive failing where the end cap meets the barrell. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen however, but it is exceedingly rare in my experience. You would hope TM did their due diligence and looked at the successes and failures of other sports that use carbon fiber. I suppose time will tell, but I guess I don't foresee wide spread issues based on what I've observed in carbon fiber composite baseball/softball bats (and playing spring ball in cold WI no less). 

[SMUGamer]

18 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Explain how you got to that conclusion please.

Sure. I must admit I was multitasking when I watched it in the background so thought I might have missed something by getting your question. All numbers were so close its not even worth mentioning, except for spin which was the difference that led to the Rogue outperforming the Stealth. Stealth spin was off the charts high, which is perfectly consistent with his on-course testing in his prior video (very short ballooning drives, although he hit all fairways), so no surprise there. Rogue was a little low spin for my liking but still not nearly as extreme as the Stealth. The only thing I do LOVE about the Stealth driver(s) that I've seen so far is, the dispersion patter of the Stealth drivers are right of center line (for right handed golfer). I play a draw so LOVE that it seems they may have a fade bias. As I mentioned before, I played the OG Sim 8* in the lowest setting with weight in the toe and it was a great performer for me until I moved into my current gamer which is even better for me. 

[ctv1]

THIS SURPRISED ME! TaylorMade Stealth vs Callaway Rogue ST Max

 

One of the better reviews, showed the impact locations for each driver.

 

And ...

 

The impact locations were very different for each driver - so we can't tell for sure which of these 2 drivers is the longest.

 

Though I will admit, it makes one think the standard Stealth is (maybe) a  significantly higher spin driver.  To confirm this we need to have a comparison done that uses the same swing and impact locations!

Edited January 22, 2022 by ctv1

[Red4282]

1 minute ago, SMUGamer said:

Sure. I must admit I was multitasking when I watched it in the background so thought I might have missed something by getting your question. All numbers were so close its not even worth mentioning, except for spin which was the difference that led to the Rogue outperforming the Stealth. Stealth spin was off the charts high, which is perfectly consistent with his on-course testing in his prior video (very short ballooning drives, although he hit all fairways), so no surprise there. Rogue was a little low spin for my liking but still not nearly as extreme as the Stealth. The only thing I do LOVE about the Stealth driver(s) that I've seen so far is, the dispersion patter of the Stealth drivers are right of center line (for right handed golfer). I play a draw so LOVE that it seems they may have a fade bias. As I mentioned before, I played the OG Sim 8* in the lowest setting with weight in the toe and it was a great performer for me until I moved into my current gamer which is even better for me. 

Yea I wouldnt disagree with your analysis but i was about to bust some chops cause you were on here yesterday claiming everything is same, or as good as, even differences were placebo. The you said one clearly was better… lol. I wanna dive deeper in tbis spin stuff because ive seen it pop up a few times, and had it personally happen to me. I have a few theories myself

[baudi]

Hit Stealth+ today and I really liked it. The feel is solid and the sound is very nice. The launch (range balls) looked good. 

The Ventus Red felt like a sloppy tube. The Smoke RDX is a steady performer.   

[Carolina Golfer 2]

50 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

Might check out his podcast, thanks. But, his time with it was very limited. My point is, let's wait for an active golfer that has truly spent months and months with It on the range with sandy balls and on course - then that will be a true test given many that pay $600 for this driver would like it to last years before they upgrade. If TM did a full year or more of testing of this carbon face they should share those results to quell the concerns of face durability thats impossible to determine at this point. 

Ok I wasn’t 100% clear. It’s not his experience with it in one day. It was the testing TM did with all manors of balls.  I believe he said thousands and thousands.    

 

 Basically he surmised the face is practically impossible to leave any sort of mark on in any way.  Which he also mentioned may be a bad thing for those who like to see where they made impact after each shot. 

[Wooderson]

1 hour ago, Red4282 said:

Another interesting test. Another one where that spin concerns me 😐

 

 

 

If you ever, ever watch a review video and claim a winner after one club has  primarily a pull draw and the other a push fade/slice then you need to dig deeper into how delivery impacts results. The stealth plain and simple is not setup for Mr Newton. He can not deliver/impact the two clubs the same and THAT IS THE REASON FOR THE PERFORMANCE DISCREPANCIES. 

 

The stealth is more fade biased than the rogue max. Mr Newton generally does not gravitate to fade biased clubs because his swing is not suited for that. I think he is a great reviewer but he is not helping his audience by leaving out this tidbit. Crossfield will talk about it and even though he bothers many I think that is his brilliance. He knows that clubs only do so much and the person swinging them is the reason for performance. If you hit the ball low and/or heel expect more spin. If you have more dynamic loft and you generally will if you leave the face open to path you will have more spin. No club can correct that. It can slightly impact it but it can't correct it. I hit the regular Stealth and never saw greater than 2800 spin. 

[SMUGamer]

36 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Yea I wouldnt disagree with your analysis but i was about to bust some chops cause you were on here yesterday claiming everything is same, or as good as, even differences were placebo. The you said one clearly was better… lol. I wanna dive deeper in tbis spin stuff because ive seen it pop up a few times, and had it personally happen to me. I have a few theories myself

Gotcha. Only meant the Rogue was "better" in the subject test (performance wise) with Newton. Not necessarily better overall because if I am being fair and impartial, the difference could have been the result of a better shaft/etc in the Rogue, which I did not catch. Still leads me to the same preliminary findings/conclusions though which is, not seeing any advantages of Carbon Face over Titanium. Just wanted to make D____ sure my buddies did NOT have an advantage over me on the 1st tee box if I elected NOT to play Stealth. Nothing more than that.......

Edited January 22, 2022 by SMUGamer

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, Bye said:

I don’t like the contrast between the matt black/carbon section and the gloss line, it looks like a piece of tape. 

That's why you order this

 

[Bye]

9 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

That's why you order this

 

That looks so much better, thanks for posting.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

15 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

That's why you order this

 

I had they exact combo built and in my cart for a bit.  Among others. Ha 

[radiman]

1 hour ago, SMUGamer said:

Just watched it. The Rogue blew away the Stealth in overall performance. And, this is with a tester that has a wonderful swing and strike pattern. The spin he got with the Stealth in this video was perfectly consistent with the spin he got on course in his prior video. 

3200rpm? Lol. That doesn’t seem to jive with what I’ve seen from anyone else. 

[SMUGamer]

10 minutes ago, radiman said:

3200rpm? Lol. That doesn’t seem to jive with what I’ve seen from anyone else. 

Agree with ya on that one, Rad. 

[Valtiel]

13 hours ago, enickma said:

Your Stealth+ has extra chrome on the bottom.  Not fair 😉

 

Nice review. How much lead tape did you add to the Stealth+, and what was the total head weight?.  Do you have any LM data/grafts to show dispersion/carry/totals? 

I didn't measure the total, but it was enough to get to D4 to match my SIM, and in the rear of the head which is the same place I have all the extra weight in the SIM. 
 

4 hours ago, BirdieBob said:

 

 

If that is a pic of the face after 100 hits then any worry about the carbon face is gone.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, SMUGamer said:

Way premature for that, let's wait after of year of sandy range balls, then we will know. 

I agree its slightly premature since cosmetic wear =/= structural wear, however if the story is that the coating on the face is a big part of the durability and said face looks unused after smacking that many NOT wiped down balls then my initial feelings are very positive. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is actually some over engineering in the first wave meant to prevent the inevitable poisoning of the well that would come from premature failures.  

[matt70286]

Not sure if anyone has posted this in another forum but Scottie Scheffler was using a Stealth+ at the AMEX today. I think he’s still an equipment free agent so somewhat of an endorsement I guess. 

[getitdaily]

2 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Another interesting test. Another one where that spin concerns me 😐

 

 

Interesting video. I went back and watched his stealth and stealth+ video and the spin rates were way different for stealth. He got 1 at 3300 and the rest all low 2000s or under 2000. Wonder if he used the same head in that video and this one and if so, what the heck is going on. 

[BallerNate]

1 hour ago, 70sinsight said:

True, though I wonder why there is so much questioning of this in the golf community vs the baseball/softball community when carbon fiber composites rolled out? I've played/coached for going on three decades now. If you take just our spring season team, kids are taking at minimum 500 swings that are making contact with the ball. This excludes open gym time and travel ball time. From January through June, a conservative estimate would be for a varsity player to make contact 5,000 times with a non-stationary 5 oz ball traveling between 75 and 90 mph. I know it is apples and oranges compared to golf and the golf ball, but I've only ever seen two bats fail, and that was due to the adhesive failing where the end cap meets the barrell. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen however, but it is exceedingly rare in my experience. You would hope TM did their due diligence and looked at the successes and failures of other sports that use carbon fiber. I suppose time will tell, but I guess I don't foresee wide spread issues based on what I've observed in carbon fiber composite baseball/softball bats (and playing spring ball in cold WI no less). 

Great insight, thanks!

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Another interesting test. Another one where that spin concerns me 😐

 

 

Honestly the only thing we can really take from this is that he struck the Stealth more heel side and kept leaving the face open, especially on those all out swings, and may have also been striking it low (which he tends to do on average anyway). Any driver is going to spin up like crazy doing that, versus the Rogue ST Max which he clearly shut the face down on creating WAY lower spin, along with favoring the toe side of the club. The "good" shots were right where they should be, spinning around 2,500, which is what I would expect with the higher MOI Stealth standard. 

[SMUGamer]

49 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Honestly the only thing we can really take from this is that he struck the Stealth more heel side and kept leaving the face open, especially on those all out swings, and may have also been striking it low (which he tends to do on average anyway). Any driver is going to spin up like crazy doing that, versus the Rogue ST Max which he clearly shut the face down on creating WAY lower spin, along with favoring the toe side of the club. The "good" shots were right where they should be, spinning around 2,500, which is what I would expect with the higher MOI Stealth standard. 

I get all the caveats but, if he were in a fitting with these two drivers as his last to choose from, with all other variables equal, then the fitter would hand Newton the Rogue and say, here ya go, this is the driver we recommend you go with, based on the actual data. And, the tester arguably has one of the most silky swings on the internet, so there's that too. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by SMUGamer

[Red4282]

57 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Honestly the only thing we can really take from this is that he struck the Stealth more heel side and kept leaving the face open, especially on those all out swings, and may have also been striking it low (which he tends to do on average anyway). Any driver is going to spin up like crazy doing that, versus the Rogue ST Max which he clearly shut the face down on creating WAY lower spin, along with favoring the toe side of the club. The "good" shots were right where they should be, spinning around 2,500, which is what I would expect with the higher MOI Stealth standard. 

This is one if my theories, i think the stealth disguises (no pun intented) low strikes. They feel good. With no visual feedback and no feedback with feeling the strike, no adjustments are made…? 
 

I sure hope theres not some quality control issues with that coating, another theory….

 

Also, just by nature if design, isnt deep face drivers much higher spinning when struck low? (Vertical gear effects?)

Edited January 22, 2022 by Red4282

[QuickFeet]

160 pages is a lot to look through.  An robot testing been posted?  Center of Face and then a half inch left and right; half inch high of center then L & R; half inch low of center and then L & R.  Any premium ball that is temperature controlled, say around 70^oF will do.  Maybe 10 to 12 shots at each position.

 

I'd like to see that data.  Robots are precise, don't get tired and they have no predetermined outcome or have little bias as to what they are swinging and from what OEM.

Edited January 22, 2022 by QuickFeet
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