Anyone Have An Idea of What TM’s Driver Plans Are for 2022?

[enickma]

30 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

I get all the caveats but, if he were in a fitting with these two drivers as his last to choose from, with all other variables equal, then the fitter would hand Newton the Rogue and say, here ya go, this is the driver we recommend you go with, based on the actual data. And, the tester arguably has one of the most silky swings on the internet, so there's that too. 

If he was in a fitting, he'd be hitting the heads with the same shaft. This shows absolutely nothing, other than the Kai'li in the Stealth was spinning off the planet and is obviously ill suited for his swing and release. That's why a review like what Valtiel did is legit. Apples to Apples. This was like Apples to Apricots

Edited January 22, 2022 by enickma

[SMUGamer]

5 minutes ago, enickma said:

If he was in a fitting, he'd be hitting the heads with the same shaft. This shows absolutely nothing, other than the Kai'li in the Stealth was spinning off the planet and is obviously ill suited for his swing and release. That's why a review like what Valtiel did is legit. Apples to Apples. This was like Apples to Apricots

Not sure, as I stated in one of my prior post, but this is why I stated the following in my previous post: "......with all other variables equal....."

Edited January 22, 2022 by SMUGamer

[SMUGamer]

14 minutes ago, QuickFeet said:

160 pages is a lot to look through.  An robot testing been posted?  Center of Face and then a half inch left and right; half inch high of center then L & R; half inch low of center and then L & R.  Any premium ball that is temperature controlled, say around 70^oF will do.  Maybe 10 to 12 shots at each position.

 

I'd like to see that data.  Robots are precise, don't get tired and they have no predetermined outcome or have little bias as to what they are swinging and from what OEM.

Now we're cookin' with peanut oil! 👏 A true forgiveness test versus the potential rabbit hole........

[SwooshLT]

58 minutes ago, QuickFeet said:

160 pages is a lot to look through.  An robot testing been posted?  Center of Face and then a half inch left and right; half inch high of center then L & R; half inch low of center and then L & R.  Any premium ball that is temperature controlled, say around 70^oF will do.  Maybe 10 to 12 shots at each position.

 

I'd like to see that data.  Robots are precise, don't get tired and they have no predetermined outcome or have little bias as to what they are swinging and from what OEM.

 

 

What are YOU EXPECTING EXACTLY?  I think most golfers who have hit it are saying something very similar;  consistent ballspeeds, more stable and solid feel......we've all seen YT ....they aren't seeing gains ......tighter dispersion and pleasing address position.  

 

The Robot will give data sure but in the hands of individual users with different shafts AND needs ...... it remains to be seen 

[SMUGamer]

20 minutes ago, SwooshLT said:

 

 

What are YOU EXPECTING EXACTLY?  I think most golfers who have hit it are saying something very similar;  consistent ballspeeds, more stable and solid feel......we've all seen YT ....they aren't seeing gains ......tighter dispersion and pleasing address position.  

 

The Robot will give data sure but in the hands of individual users with different shafts AND needs ...... it remains to be seen 

To flesh out the claims that Carbon Face, because of its weight savings / redistribution of said weight savings / larger face diameter, creates more forgiveness on mishits in pure isolation excluding the endless rabbit hole of all other variables such as different swing dynamics, deliveries, weightings, shafts, settings, etc. That would be a real test limiting the variables to what truly matters. A human fitting is something completely different. A pure test of the product excluding humans and all their differences. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by SMUGamer

[SwooshLT]

Just now, SMUGamer said:

To flesh out the claims that Carbon Face, because of its weight savings / redistribution of said weight savings, and larger face diameter, creates more forgiveness on mishits in pure isolation excluding the endless rabbit hole of all other variables such as different swing dynamics, deliveries, weightings, shafts, settings, etc. That would be a real test limiting the variables to whats truly matters. A human fitting is something completely different. A pure test of the product excluding humans and all their differences. 

 

And this is requested by you for EVERY release?  C'mon man

[GwrxMod]

3 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

To flesh out the claims that Carbon Face, because of its weight savings / redistribution of said weight savings / larger face diameter, creates more forgiveness on mishits in pure isolation excluding the endless rabbit hole of all other variables such as different swing dynamics, deliveries, weightings, shafts, settings, etc. That would be a real test limiting the variables to what truly matters. A human fitting is something completely different. A pure test of the product excluding humans and all their differences. 

 

You've made your point - please move on. Seriously, I have tried to be nice about this but at this point you are just trolling this thread and ruining it for everyone else.

 

Robust debate is welcome - and absolutely encouraged. Being a troll just for the flip of it is not.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by GwrxMod

[Valtiel]

20 hours ago, Red4282 said:

This is one if my theories, i think the stealth disguises (no pun intented) low strikes. They feel good. With no visual feedback and no feedback with feeling the strike, no adjustments are made…? 
 

I sure hope theres not some quality control issues with that coating, another theory….

 

Also, just by nature if design, isnt deep face drivers much higher spinning when struck low? (Vertical gear effects?)

Yup, agreed on both points. Deeper face = more real estate below the sweet spot = more potential for the low, spinny strike. If there is one thing I noticed in testing it was that just by virtue of the deeper face that the Stealth had the spinny shot more than the SIM, but simply because a low strike on the SIM is closer to the sweet spot. 
 

20 hours ago, SMUGamer said:

I get all the caveats but, if he were in a fitting with these two drivers as his last to choose from, with all other variables equal, then the fitter would hand Newton the Rogue and say, here ya go, this is the driver we recommend you go with, based on the actual data. And, the tester arguably has one of the most silky swings on the internet, so there's that too. 

I'd agree that would be the outcome, but IMO that is a more of a condemnation of the often incomplete/unprofessional nature of "fits" these days. Personally i'd never be satisfied giving someone the driver that spun 1,400-1,900 and had a left tendency because that is the all too common "launch monitor queen" that turns to poop on the golf course. Even Matt @TXG fell victim to this when they fit him into a Mavrik that was great on the monitor but then fell apart on the course. I'd have opened up the face on the Rogue and potentially closed it slightly for the Stealth to get both drivers away from the left/right and see where they actually normalize in the middle. I would also mess with weight because he commented on the Stealth feeling lighter and it was super clear that he wasn't striking it as well. 

And yeah, silky swing sure but his efficiency is often weirdly low. He tees the ball high and seems to favor picking the ball clean off of it. Watch the tee movement closely on the first 4 shots, especially that second one where it doesn't move at all. Lower launch, higher spin, and poor efficiency. Then look at the first shot with the ST Max. The tee really snaps forward with higher launch by several degrees and much lower spin with noticeably better efficiency. Simply a better, higher strike. Back to the Stealth at 2:58 and the tee moves once and then not again for the next two shots, back to low efficiency. All a story of strike quality and face angles. His path and AoA are pretty consistent, but his strikes up and down the face are not, and the Stealth was hurt more by that here, and even then it still performed well. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Valtiel

[Red4282]

19 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Yup, agreed on both points. Deeper face = more real estate below the sweet spot = more potential for the low, spinny strike. If there is one thing I noticed in testing it was that just by virtue of the deeper face that the Stealth had the spinny shot more than the SIM, but simply because a low strike on the SIM is closer to the sweet spot. 
 

I'd agree that would be the outcome, but IMO that is a more of a condemnation of the often incomplete/unprofessional nature of "fits" these days. Personally i'd never be satisfied giving someone the driver that spun 1,400-1,900 and had a left tendency because that is the all too common "launch monitor queen" that turns to poop on the golf course. Even Matt @TXG fell victim to this when they fit him into a Mavrik that was great on the monitor but then fell apart on the course. I'd have opened up the face on the Rogue and potentially closed it slightly for the SIM to get both drivers away from the left/right and see where they actually normalize in the middle. I would also mess with weight because he commented on the Stealth feeling lighter and it was super clear that he wasn't striking it as well. 

And yeah, silky swing sure but his efficiency is often weirdly low. He tees the ball high and seems to favor picking the ball clean off of it. Watch the tee movement closely on the first 4 shots, especially that second one where it doesn't move at all. Lower launch, higher spin, and poor efficiency. Then look at the first shot with the ST Max. The tee really snaps forward with higher launch by several degrees and much lower spin with noticeably better efficiency. Simply a better, higher strike. Back to the Stealth at 2:58 and the tee moves once and then not again for the next two shots, back to low efficiency. All a story of strike quality and face angles. His path and AoA are pretty consistent, but his strikes up and down the face are not, and the Stealth was hurt more by there here, and even then it still performed well. 

Id also add the head of the stealth is I believe at least 6 grams heavier than the rogue so not so sure what the light feeling was, maybe the two different shafts he was using.

[GolfTurkey]

22 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Personally i'd never be satisfied giving someone the driver that spun 1,400-1,900 and had a left tendency because that is the all too common "launch monitor queen" that turns to poop on the golf course. Even Matt @TXG fell victim to this when they fit him into a Mavrik that was great on the monitor but then fell apart on the course. 

 

It's my only criticism of Ian is that he kind of falls for the Foresight low spin distance boost, which is understandable given that he looks at it all day. You could see his surprise when they had TM side by side with Quad and they saw the difference.

 

IMO the more damaging problem with Foresight isn't the low spin distance boost, it's the less discussed low spin stability boost (at this point pretty much everyone except Rick Shiels understands that 2K spin = extra yards on Foresight). The bigger problem is that the low spinner that catches the edge of the fairway on a Foresight is a quacker that dive bombs into the nearest bush in real life.

[QuickFeet]

1 hour ago, SwooshLT said:

 

 

What are YOU EXPECTING EXACTLY?  I think most golfers who have hit it are saying something very similar;  consistent ballspeeds, more stable and solid feel......we've all seen YT ....they aren't seeing gains ......tighter dispersion and pleasing address position.  

 

The Robot will give data sure but in the hands of individual users with different shafts AND needs ...... it remains to be seen 

LOL, I have no expectations regarding the Stealth drivers; I've not hit them yet.  But how others hit it is not important to me; as you said it's in the hands of the individual.  My M2 has consistent ball speeds, it's stable and feels solid.  I like its looks and sound as well as the shaft.  If I'm going to drop $600 on a driver there needs to be some significant gains in performance over my M2.  Robot data would at least let me know what the potential of the head is across the face.

 

I'm sure @TaylorMade has the test data; lets see it.  I just want to see what the head delivers regarding ball speeds across the face with the human factor/bias removed.  All the subjective stuff (sound, looks, head and shaft feel, etc.) is on me.  Set the robot up to deliver 150 mph ball speed on center of face hits, launch 12 -14 degrees, spin in the 2400-2600 range with minimal side spin.  The ball is simply moved to the other 8 position; the robot still makes the same swing.  Humans may hit it all over the face due to inconsistent swings. Kind of difficult to draw conclusions regarding performance other than the subjective.  Another test could be done a 165 ball speed with tweaks to launch and spin. 

 

Easy to do. 100 ball test would take about an hour. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by QuickFeet
addititonal text

[Ryan19jwu]

On a related note. Mine shipped and is scheduled for delivery Tuesday…..

[halfsumo]

Interesting theory about the taller face height making a low strike a bit easier to make. My miss is low on the face. Maybe I will try the Stealth + first this year over the regular Stealth and see how it goes. I did hit it at the store with good results, maybe a bit too low spin, but that was with the Kaili and not my Ventus Red and it was an 8* head which I wouldn't need.

[SwooshLT]

46 minutes ago, QuickFeet said:

LOL, I have no expectations regarding the Stealth drivers; I've not hit them yet.  But how others hit it is not important to me; as you said it's in the hands of the individual.  My M2 has consistent ball speeds, it's stable and feels solid.  I like its looks and sound as well as the shaft.  If I'm going to drop $600 on a driver there needs to be some significant gains in performance over my M2.  Robot data would at least let me know what the potential of the head is across the face.

 

I'm sure @TaylorMade has the test data; lets see it.  I just want to see what the head delivers regarding ball speeds across the face with the human factor/bias removed.  All the subjective stuff (sound, looks, head and shaft feel, etc.) is on me.  Set the robot up to deliver 150 mph ball speed on center of face hits, launch 12 -14 degrees, spin in the 2400-2600 range with minimal side spin.  The ball is simply moved to the other 8 position; the robot still makes the same swing.  Humans may hit it all over the face due to inconsistent swings. Kind of difficult to draw conclusions regarding performance other than the subjective.  Another test could be done a 165 ball speed with tweaks to launch and spin. 

 

Easy to do. 100 ball test would take about an hour. 

 

Have you seriously asked for that data before this year? I'm truly asking an earnest question......I think you know the answer,  NO MAJOR  improvement in total distance......if so, we'd all be 70+yds longer.....lol

 

But asking that seems like such a troll job at this point ......but continue on this Neverending journey of unsolved mysteries..... 

[QuickFeet]

3 minutes ago, SwooshLT said:

 

Have you seriously asked for that data before this year? I'm truly asking an earnest question......I think you know the answer,  NO MAJOR  improvement in total distance......if so, we'd all be 70+yds longer.....lol

 

But asking that seems like such a troll job at this point ......but continue on this Neverending journey of unsolved mysteries..... 

LOL, I used to produce that data every year for every new driver released by an OEM.  So in answer to your question, yes!   Unlikely the OEM's probably don't want to get into a pissing contest but as a consumer it would provide a very good starting point.

 

Unlikely that the Stealth drivers are significantly better than my M2 but I will try them when one of the local outdoor ranges get their new TM heads and shafts.  It just comes down to $600 has to deliver some arbitrary value (defined by me) that helps me play better.  That $600 would go a long way towards a nice optic on a new long range 6.5 Creedmoor.   LOL, don't have enough disposal cash to have all the cool tools.

[getitdaily]

7 minutes ago, QuickFeet said:

LOL, I used to produce that data every year for every new driver released by an OEM.  So in answer to your question, yes!   Unlikely the OEM's probably don't want to get into a pissing contest but as a consumer it would provide a very good starting point.

 

Unlikely that the Stealth drivers are significantly better than my M2 but I will try them when one of the local outdoor ranges get their new TM heads and shafts.  It just comes down to $600 has to deliver some arbitrary value (defined by me) that helps me play better.  That $600 would go a long way towards a nice optic on a new long range 6.5 Creedmoor.   LOL, don't have enough disposal cash to have all the cool tools.

OEMs won't produce that data for us. They won't even produce CoG and moi data. Primary reason is that the large majority of consumers just don't care. They want to hit it, get somewhat fitted, and go. 

[SwooshLT]

21 minutes ago, QuickFeet said:

LOL, I used to produce that data every year for every new driver released by an OEM.  So in answer to your question, yes!   Unlikely the OEM's probably don't want to get into a pissing contest but as a consumer it would provide a very good starting point.

 

Unlikely that the Stealth drivers are significantly better than my M2 but I will try them when one of the local outdoor ranges get their new TM heads and shafts.  It just comes down to $600 has to deliver some arbitrary value (defined by me) that helps me play better.  That $600 would go a long way towards a nice optic on a new long range 6.5 Creedmoor.   LOL, don't have enough disposal cash to have all the cool tools.

 

 

I've said exactly what you said but I'm asking why you're adamant about this particular release?  If you can show me with screenshots or something that you've asked for this , I'll stand down......until then I'll not understand why you're trolling.......

 I've given you that you won't gain much if any with stealth over m2 .....save your 600 but you gotta calm down with these requests! 

[QuickFeet]

1 hour ago, SwooshLT said:

 

 

I've said exactly what you said but I'm asking why you're adamant about this particular release?  If you can show me with screenshots or something that you've asked for this , I'll stand down......until then I'll not understand why you're trolling.......

 I've given you that you won't gain much if any with stealth over m2 .....save your 600 but you gotta calm down with these requests! 

Probably haven't asked for it since I bought my M2 but I had that data to look at.  I'm pretty sure Titleist, Ping, Cobra, Callaway, TaylorMade, PXG, Srixon, etc. robot test heads on a regular basis unless something has changed in industry the last six years.  Even AI has to be proven.  I'd like to see the numbers that are behind the marketing story.  Not everyone has the luxury see and spend half a day with their local fitter. 

[ernotte]

6 hours ago, Ryan19jwu said:

On a related note. Mine shipped and is scheduled for delivery Tuesday…..

Interesting. Was in GG yesterday and asked to hit the Stealth and he said they couldn't let people hit them until Tuesday in the basic net area and someone was in the trackman bay. I didn't think anything of it at the time. Early release maybe!?

Edited January 23, 2022 by ernotte
Added

[mbewley82]

7 hours ago, Ryan19jwu said:

On a related note. Mine shipped and is scheduled for delivery Tuesday…..

Did you order through TaylorMades website or through your local pro? Mine says delivery date ie feb 4

[Ryan19jwu]

6 hours ago, ernotte said:

Interesting. Was in GG yesterday and asked to hit the Stealth and he said they couldn't let people hit them until Tuesday in the basic net area and someone was in the trackman bay. I didn't think anything of it at the time. Early release maybe!?

I did a full fitting with the Taylormade rep at Golf Galaxy two weeks ago. Weird. 

[Ryan19jwu]

5 hours ago, mbewley82 said:

Did you order through TaylorMades website or through your local pro? Mine says delivery date ie feb 4

Golf Galaxy. Left TM and San Diego yesterday via FedEx and is scheduled by 8pm Tuesday. 

[getitdaily]

1 minute ago, Ryan19jwu said:

Golf Galaxy. Left TM and San Diego yesterday via FedEx and is scheduled by 8pm Tuesday. 

This makes sense. I could see where orders placed through retailers would get priority shipping and early shipping. I don't know for sure, but it would make a lot of sense if TM/ retailer contracts stated TM couldn't ship orders made through TM's website prior to product being in retail stores. Would also make sense for retailer orders to get shipped early. 

[1s1k]

14 hours ago, Ryan19jwu said:

On a related note. Mine shipped and is scheduled for delivery Tuesday…..

 

2 hours ago, Ryan19jwu said:

Golf Galaxy. Left TM and San Diego yesterday via FedEx and is scheduled by 8pm Tuesday. 

Exact same with me.  Didn't we go through this with our ZX7's? Lol

[NoCalHack]

For people who have clubs on the way already, did you order retail or another way?

 

I guess what I’m asking is if retail orders are getting shipped to arrive earlier than Feb 4?

 

 

[BallerNate]

4 minutes ago, NoCalHack said:

For people who have clubs on the way already, did you order retail or another way?

 

I guess what I’m asking is if retail orders are getting shipped to arrive earlier than Feb 4?

 

 

@TaylorMade Golf said a few pages ago that although they quote Feb 4th shipping, they have a history of shipping before that date.

 

I pre-ordered at Stealth Plus 3W, so crossing fingers on early delivery too! 🤞🏽🤞🏽

[getitdaily]

5 minutes ago, NoCalHack said:

For people who have clubs on the way already, did you order retail or another way?

 

I guess what I’m asking is if retail orders are getting shipped to arrive earlier than Feb 4?

 

 

It seems to be the case that retailer orders are shipping early. I bought og sim upon initial release 2 years ago and I got mine about 2 weeks before the official release date.

[soregongolfer]

Oooohhhhhh.  I am now eagerly awaiting a shipping notification...😆

[njmack]

Ordered my Stealth+ through RockBottom--have not heard anything on shipping yet

[khalespace]

I am getting my custom, 2" short Stealth +, on Tuesday too. Ordered through Taylormade website.