Anyone Have An Idea of What TM’s Driver Plans Are for 2022?

[SMUGamer]

18 minutes ago, JMB3 said:

He swung the SIM2 faster, which negates any ball speed difference, and actually probably means the Stealth was more efficient.  I also wouldn’t call 2268 RPMs “unplayable.”  With the right launch, it would be damn near perfect.  
 

I get you want to justify canceling your order in all, but I’m not sure this review is “negative” either.

No need to justify a correct decision. Merely sharing more info to help all that read this thread - which I'm pretty sure is the point of all these threads. If not, we may as well move these types of threads to the manufacturers websites so they can censor any talk that doesn't support their marketing claims. Sorry its NOT in line with your purchasing decision and you want validation from everyone else. Buy your Stealth and enjoy it. Matter of fact, go buy multiple in each color. Doesn't mean I have to, nor does anyone else. Nobody cares which driver any of us plays. I am looking purely at the data and will compare that to my own results. Nothing more or less. And once again, lets get back to the point, Carbon Face Tech v. Titanium. It appears theres no added performance, as claimed. 

And there's a difference between great track man spin numbers (for max distance) and real world scoring spin numbers needed to play ones best golf, as Chris Trott so eloquently explained when fitting a pro that does this for a living. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by SMUGamer

[Red4282]

23 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

 

Actual measured loft could certainly explain some of it. Were both heads launching the same? 

Yes launch was ranging from 11-14 degrees, with 12-13 being the majority. It was gc2, so no club data but Im pretty much 0/+2 with aoa. Im pretty certain it wasnt a loft thing. It was frustrating to not get visual confirmation of strike. Maybe i was hitting it low and not feeling it like usual. But strikes felt good.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Red4282

[BirdieBob]

4 hours ago, t4t3r said:

 

You can do this with Global Golf - $25 for 2 weeks.

But, will it be in your length, shaft and flex, grip and size, swingweight?

No

 

Better to buy, make it yours and then determine whether to keep or sell.

 

 

[radiman]

18 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

No need to justify a correct decision. Merely sharing more info to help all that read this thread - which I'm pretty sure is the point of all these threads. If not, we may as well move these types of threads to the manufacturers websites so they can censor any talk that doesn't support their marketing claims. Sorry its NOT in line with your purchasing decision and you want validation from everyone else. Buy your Stealth and enjoy it. Matter of fact, go buy multiple in each color. Doesn't mean I have to, nor does anyone else. Nobody cares which driver any of us plays. I am looking purely at the data and will compare that to my own results. Nothing more or less. And once again, lets get back to the point, Carbon Face Tech v. Titanium. It appears theres no added performance, as claimed. 

And there's a difference between great track man spin numbers (for max distance) and real world scoring spin numbers needed to play ones best golf, as Chris Trott so eloquently explained when fitting a pro that does this for a living. 

You’re telling me the 252rpm spin difference between the two make the Stealth unplayable? That’s insane and something that would be hardly noticeable during normal play. I don’t get the angst here. 

[t4t3r]

4 minutes ago, BirdieBob said:

But, will it be in your length, shaft and flex, grip and size, swingweight?

No

 

Better to buy, make it yours and then determine whether to keep or sell.

 

 

This is GolfWRX - with removable driver heads there’s very few of us who don’t have a driver shaft to plug in. If you are that worried about getting all the specs right then go get fit.

 

I can club ho with the best of them and I followed that model of buying/selling, but it comes at a cost. 

[SMUGamer]

1 minute ago, radiman said:

You’re telling me the 252rpm spin difference between the two make the Stealth unplayable? That’s insane and something that would be hardly noticeable during normal play. I don’t get the angst here. 

Less than ideal for playing your best in a match that matters, is another way of saying it. NOT, that you literally couldn't play 2200 spin, just less than ideal for hitting fairways with max distance also in mind for your best scores. 

[hammergolf]

3 minutes ago, radiman said:

You’re telling me the 252rpm spin difference between the two make the Stealth unplayable? That’s insane and something that would be hardly noticeable during normal play. I don’t get the angst here. 

The standard deviation for a tour pro is more than 250rpms of spin on the driver…

[JMB3]

31 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

No need to justify a correct decision. Merely sharing more info to help all that read this thread - which I'm pretty sure is the point of all these threads. If not, we may as well move these types of threads to the manufacturers websites so they can censor any talk that doesn't support their marketing claims. Sorry its NOT in line with your purchasing decision and you want validation from everyone else. Buy your Stealth and enjoy it. Matter of fact, go buy multiple in each color. Doesn't mean I have to, nor does anyone else. Nobody cares which driver any of us plays. I am looking purely at the data and will compare that to my own results. Nothing more or less. And once again, lets get back to the point, Carbon Face Tech v. Titanium. It appears theres no added performance, as claimed. 

And there's a difference between great track man spin numbers (for max distance) and real world scoring spin numbers needed to play ones best golf, as Chris Trott so eloquently explained when fitting a pro that does this for a living. 

All you’ve done is cherry pick any negative line you can find. Just how you claimed Finch crapped on the Stealth but failed to mention he found faster ball speed and carry distance.  Be a Debbie downer if you like, I’m enjoying the excitement and will game the hell out of the Stealth.

 

 

[SMUGamer]

1 hour ago, JMB3 said:

All you’ve done is cherry pick any negative line you can find. Just how you claimed Finch crapped on the Stealth but failed to mention he found faster ball speed and carry distance.  Be a Debbie downer if you like, I’m enjoying the excitement and will game the hell out of the Stealth.

 

 

 

Go back and read my POST about the averages. NOT outliers, which is why they are often thrown out. 

 

I couldn't care less which name is on the bottom of your driver anymore than you care which name is on the bottom of mine. Ante up, buddy! 

Edited January 20, 2022 by SMUGamer

[getitdaily]

21 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

Less than ideal for playing your best in a match that matters, is another way of saying it. NOT, that you literally couldn't play 2200 spin, just less than ideal for hitting fairways with max distance also in mind for your best scores. 

2200 is VERY playable for just about any ballspeed. 

 

Sub 2k is where things start to get squirrelly. 

[Peterman6068]

Anyone know if ambient temperatures and sufficient break-in periods will make a difference? I’m guessing most testing being done now is done at 70°room temp or less since I’m seeing a lot of coats in videos. A black driver on a hot Sunny day might be 120°? 

[SMUGamer]

1 minute ago, getitdaily said:

2200 is VERY playable for just about any ballspeed. 

 

Sub 2k is where things start to get squirrelly. 

Much respect, getitdaily, but gonna have to defer to Trott on this one. And understandably so, he fits all the TM Pro's. 

[getitdaily]

4 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

Much respect, getitdaily, but gonna have to defer to Trott on this one. And understandably so, he fits all the TM Pro's. 

He's a drawer...I can understand why he'd be afraid of 2200...lol.

[Lemonde]

There is an obsession with launch monitor data which is largely collected indoors and rarely replicated outdoors purely from an access perspective.  I’m reminded of what Mr Wunder said about the TSi3.  “This is a golf course driver”.  In other words it won’t get you award winning #s in front of a launch monitor but shines outdoors.  I have moved onto the more forgiving model this year because that extra 250rpms might just keep me in the fairway more often than not.  I commend you guys who can keep the lower spinning model in play and at 2000rpms because I certainly cannot lol! 

[SMUGamer]

2 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

He's a drawer...I can understand why he'd be afraid of 2200...lol.

I had been inundated with 2200 being the IDEAL spin one can attain until I watched the video with Trott, so when he dropped this NUGGET, I had to rewind it and listen to his criticism of such low spin (around 2200) multiple times to make sure I heard and learned from it. I was as shocked as anyone to hear this new view about spin, from one of, if not the best. Multiple retakes required......🤔

[BirdieBob]

40 minutes ago, t4t3r said:

This is GolfWRX - with removable driver heads there’s very few of us who don’t have a driver shaft to plug in. If you are that worried about getting all the specs right then go get fit.

 

I can club ho with the best of them and I followed that model of buying/selling, but it comes at a cost. 

That's what I am doing...fitting myself as there are no golf stores, pro shops with clubs, demo days within 5 hours driving.

Provided your shafts have the correct adapter you can do that, and the swingweight weights you have fit the clubhead.

Way too many variables to adjust.

As a result I have to afford my buy and try method.

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by BirdieBob

[getitdaily]

1 minute ago, SMUGamer said:

I had been inundated with 2200 being the IDEAL spin one can attain until I watched the video with Trott, so when he dropped this NUGGET, I had to rewind it and listen to his criticism of such low spin (around 2200) multiple times to make sure I heard and learned from it. I was as shocked as anyone to hear this new view about spin, from one of, if not the best. Multiple retakes required......🤔

Yeah, I won't argue with him. He clearly has more intelligence around the matter than me. I just wonder if he was talking avg spin and std dev. For example, if your avg spin is 2200 and std dev around 400 then you are highly likely to find that 1800 spinner on the course and get it wonky.  You really want your lowest spin drive to be around that 2200 mark which means your avg drive would pop 2400-2500. 

 

That's basically where I live. My drives indoors are almost always 2300-2600 with a couple of low spinners around 2100. 

[Ryan19jwu]

I have had the chance to hit the stealth 4-5 different times and was hitting a head at PGA superstore that I couldn’t spin over 700rpm. Yes. 700. Not a typo. 
 

I think it was a head/bad ball/GC Hawk thing. But still weird! 

[SMUGamer]

4 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Yeah, I won't argue with him. He clearly has more intelligence around the matter than me. I just wonder if he was talking avg spin and std dev. For example, if your avg spin is 2200 and std dev around 400 then you are highly likely to find that 1800 spinner on the course and get it wonky.  You really want your lowest spin drive to be around that 2200 mark which means your avg drive would pop 2400-2500. 

 

That's basically where I live. My drives indoors are almost always 2300-2600 with a couple of low spinners around 2100. 

I remember vividly, when he was fitting this tour pro, after the pro hit a few shots in the low 2's, he stated he would be doing this pro a great disservice to let him leave the fitting with a driver, that he has to make his living with, that averages in the low 2's. He then went on to state the spin he needs in the real world, on average, is very different than the spin #'s people rave about on TrackMan to show off a certain driver. 

[getitdaily]

4 minutes ago, SMUGamer said:

I remember vividly, when he was fitting this tour pro, after the pro hit a few shots in the low 2's, he stated he would be doing this pro a great disservice to let him leave the fitting with a driver, that he has to make his living with, that averages in the low 2's. He then went on to state the spin he needs in the real world, on average, is very different than the spin #'s people rave about on TrackMan to show off a certain driver. 

Yeah, that's what I figured. Averaging 2200 means 1700-1800 is possible, especially for us mortals. 

[Nihonsei75]

2 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Very well could be a dud head. I had one in the m5. A lot of folks had m5 duds whereas others had performing m5s. 

I must have been getting the dud heads since coming back to the game! My SuperSteel with that dope Bubble shaft def was a performing head and the bigger R510 I was gifted was beast! Could the bigger heads actually give me a slower SS? Edit: that's a serious question, yes/no is cool so as to not get off topic.

(I'm also not in my mid-20's anymore...correlation?) [cry/laugh emoji]

Edited January 20, 2022 by Nihonsei75

[SMUGamer]

29 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Yeah, that's what I figured. Averaging 2200 means 1700-1800 is possible, especially for us mortals. 

Yeah look, if all we are looking for is crazy distance without any regard to keeping the ball on the planet, go buy the Mav Triple D and loft down. I hit my longest drives EVER, with it but often got 1500-1700 spin numbers along with it, producing knuckle balls that could go anywhere. NOT a secure/smart place to LIVE if you like keeping your money from your boys! 😘

Edited January 20, 2022 by SMUGamer

[zap311]

For everyone’s reference, here is TaylorMade’s published guidance for driver fitting WRT optimal launch conditions. 

[Nihonsei75]

1 hour ago, Red4282 said:

Yes launch was ranging from 11-14 degrees, with 12-13 being the majority. It was gc2, so no club data but Im pretty much 0/+2 with aoa. Im pretty certain it wasnt a loft thing. It was frustrating to not get visual confirmation of strike. Maybe i was hitting it low and not feeling it like usual. But strikes felt good.

Agree on not seeing the strike. I Love wiping the dimple marks off my OG Sim face after every shot. I'm going to miss that habit with the Grey Carbon 60x face!

[JMB3]

1 hour ago, SMUGamer said:

No need to justify a correct decision. Merely sharing more info to help all that read this thread - which I'm pretty sure is the point of all these threads. If not, we may as well move these types of threads to the manufacturers websites so they can censor any talk that doesn't support their marketing claims. Sorry its NOT in line with your purchasing decision and you want validation from everyone else. Buy your Stealth and enjoy it. Matter of fact, go buy multiple in each color. Doesn't mean I have to, nor does anyone else. Nobody cares which driver any of us plays. I am looking purely at the data and will compare that to my own results. Nothing more or less. And once again, lets get back to the point, Carbon Face Tech v. Titanium. It appears theres no added performance, as claimed. 

And there's a difference between great track man spin numbers (for max distance) and real world scoring spin numbers needed to play ones best golf, as Chris Trott so eloquently explained when fitting a pro that does this for a living. 

Since you probably won’t share this one…. Newton put the Stealth up against one of the most stable drivers on the market, and the Stealth had even tighter dispersion for him.  
 

 

There are plenty of positives shared in the YouTube reviews.  And FWIW, the guy in the review you posted about should probably consider the Stealth and not the Plus.

[SMUGamer]

6 minutes ago, JMB3 said:

Since you probably won’t share this one…. Newton put the Stealth up against one of the most stable drivers on the market, and the Stealth had even tighter dispersion for him.  
 

 

There are plenty of positives shared in the YouTube reviews.  And FWIW, the guy in the review you posted about should probably consider the Stealth and not the Plus.

Do you even know what my beef or argument is??? Do you think that my argument is, that the Stealth drivers are NOT as good or equal to, the other current models from the other leading manufacturers??? Please tell me???

[DeCuchi]

5 minutes ago, JMB3 said:

Since you probably won’t share this one…. Newton put the Stealth up against one of the most stable drivers on the market, and the Stealth had even tighter dispersion for him.  
 

 

There are plenty of positives shared in the YouTube reviews.  And FWIW, the guy in the review you posted about should probably consider the Stealth and not the Plus.

I’d love to see more reviewers diving into dispersion numbers. Instead of focusing mainly on distance. Hit enough shots to select and compare toe shots, heel shots etc. summarize it in the review.  “x” driver works really well on toe strikes or whatever.  
 

I watched Shiels’ review of the Cobra then the Stealth. The tone was completely different though both seemed to be about 4 yards longer than last years in total distance. I believe the carry numbers very close as well.  He seemed very excited by Cobra, but not so much about stealth.

[halfsumo]

I am guessing/hoping for 16-18 more sleeps until I can get a reasonably priced head only on the BST.

[JMB3]

2 minutes ago, DeCuchi said:

I’d love to see more reviewers diving into dispersion numbers. Instead of focusing mainly on distance. Hit enough shots to select and compare toe shots, heel shots etc. summarize it in the review.  “x” driver works really well on toe strikes or whatever.  
 

I watched Shiels’ review of the Cobra then the Stealth. The tone was completely different though both seemed to be about 4 yards longer than last years in total distance. I believe the carry numbers very close as well.  He seemed very excited by Cobra, but not so much about stealth.

I agree.  It felt like he did a deeper dive, at least on camera, with the Cobra.

[SMUGamer]

Look at all these folks on GolfWRX watching all the reviews on the latest drivers to help them make informed purchasing decisions. 

 

"Just imagine", as someone once said..........😂🤣😂

Edited January 20, 2022 by SMUGamer