Anyone Have An Idea of What TM’s Driver Plans Are for 2022?

[GolfTurkey]

Here in Australia the standard price for the Stealth+ with stock shafts has dropped from $1099 to $879 and Stealth has dropped from $999 to $799.

 

I don't know if this is due to not shifting drivers at that eye-watering price or whether the strategy was always to extract top dollar from the early adopters and then lower the price.

 

My guess is the former. Manufacturers have been testing the limit of the price premium that the Aussie market will bear for a long time and TMAG may have found it. I haven't seen one in the wild yet, but then I play at a mid-priced club.

Edited April 5, 2022 by GolfTurkey

[A.Princey]

 

[kben1993]

2 hours ago, A.Princey said:

 

Not a great promo for Taylormade🥴

[Nihonsei75]

On 4/2/2022 at 5:59 PM, Valtiel said:

For me those considerations are purely about face angle and how the club sits behind the ball. I would caution you against lofting up with the Stealth+ for multiple reasons though. One, the OG SIM is a very low spin head and I would not expect you to see a difference between the two spin wise that would warrant an extra degree of loft, ESPECIALLY if you prefer the look of the SIM lofted up to sit slightly closed at address. Two, Taylormade 10.5* heads anecdotally seem to be more often higher lofted than stated, so with a 9* head you might be getting something between 9-10* actual loft whereas we've seen 10.5* heads end up all the way at 12* and more often in the 11* range. This could handcuff you as your Stealth+ 10.5* could very easily be higher lofted than you might want, and your options for dropping that loft will open the face which will create a very different look behind the ball if you prefer the slightly shut SIM head. 

As a fellow over analyzer I would recommend going with a 9* head with the knowledge that you have two options for increasing spin; adding loft and manipulating weight. Adding loft will obviously shut the face slightly, but if you prefer that with the SIM then that feels like a much safer route than trying to crank open a head that is higher loft. You can also drop the weight on the front slider and increase the rear TSS weight. This will increase MOI and thus launch and spin. 

So I spent the whole weekend reading about about loft, Langle, AoA, face angle, spin, shaft weight and length, SW, profiles, club building and fitting, etc... and after seeing many modern heads read weak and then Clay Long's Stealth post on insta having a 9° measure about 11° and barely open I decided I would call TM. A change in loft would push me back 8wks to change my order by loft only or even ordering the red face with custom shaft. I got some time in with Sim at 2° closed and flight wasn't great but the face didn't seem too open and was manageable to still move the ball. I guess I'm squaring the face to whatever shot I'm hitting anywys. CS rep did tell me one thing though , I think this may be an inside way to get through so many calls or just pulling my leg.....

 Have you or anybody reading this ever been told that they would be able to have "a one time opportunity to return a custom order", if stated loft or playability turns out to be an issue? I find it believable because I'm a servant and have been able to accommodate people outside the lines in a few different industries and contexts.

 At any rate, it's gonna work out fine lowering down by 2° if really needed and slinging the open face. Thanks for the feedback, it's what I tried but I got some free range and play time so I'm too antsy to wait til Summer!

[Tiptx1122]

I see TM coming out with another new driver before the year is up, more hype of course with their carbon wood improvement. The new and improved Stealth Plus Max and Stealth Max2. We will probably see the Stealth name for the next 2-3 years 

[QuickFeet]

On 4/5/2022 at 6:29 PM, A.Princey said:

 

Dang, sorry to see that for you.  Unfortunately TM will have some failures with this evolution in driver technology.  They can engineer to reasonable perfection, use AI, run engineering simulations, robot/player test, etc. before releasing a product to the general public and all looks good on paper.  TM can't design/test for every possible scenario that their driver (clubs in general) are going to be subject to in the "real" world.

 

Hopefully TM has asked for you to ship the head back so they can do some failure analysis which will help them determine a possible weakness.  That in itself will help us golfers get clubs that are better performing with improved durability.

[Nihonsei75]

4 hours ago, Tiptx1122 said:

I see TM coming out with another new driver before the year is up, more hype of course with their carbon wood improvement. The new and improved Stealth Plus Max and Stealth Max2. We will probably see the Stealth name for the next 2-3 years 

Even after all the trouble I caused myself until I finally committed to an order, I would definitely buy a 430 t0 440cc Stealth with an updated custom shaft menu. Good points I find easily believable. I hope this 1st gen stays as strong/relevant as the 1st gen Sim though!

[PowerPlayer]

On 4/1/2022 at 9:17 AM, BallerNate said:

Oh no, sorry to hear this.

 

Was just a matter of time before we saw a defective one though with how many they have to produce.

 

Good luck for a quick replacement!! 🤞🏽🤞🏽

I haven't had much luck with the last 3 gens of TM drivers in terms of durability. However, TM has provided support in a timely manner if needed. My last Sim 2 warranty claim was fulfilled in less than 2 weeks. Not so this time around. Need to wait 2 months for my Stealth replacement. To make matters worse, I put the Sim 2 head that I got in play and was blocking/ push fading it off the planet. Face angle on that sucker is 4 degrees open. Good times. 

[BallerNate]

19 hours ago, PowerPlayer said:

I haven't had much luck with the last 3 gens of TM drivers in terms of durability. However, TM has provided support in a timely manner if needed. My last Sim 2 warranty claim was fulfilled in less than 2 weeks. Not so this time around. Need to wait 2 months for my Stealth replacement. To make matters worse, I put the Sim 2 head that I got in play and was blocking/ push fading it off the planet. Face angle on that sucker is 4 degrees open. Good times. 

2 months? Oh jeez man…not good.

 

Also not good that you haven’t had luck with the last 3 generations of TM drivers…that’s a very poor track record.

 

By the time you get the SIM2 dialed back in, you’ll have to get used to the new Stealth again…not a good look, Smh!

[kwettig]

20 hours ago, PowerPlayer said:

I haven't had much luck with the last 3 gens of TM drivers in terms of durability. However, TM has provided support in a timely manner if needed. My last Sim 2 warranty claim was fulfilled in less than 2 weeks. Not so this time around. Need to wait 2 months for my Stealth replacement. To make matters worse, I put the Sim 2 head that I got in play and was blocking/ push fading it off the planet. Face angle on that sucker is 4 degrees open. Good times. 

This is why I decided to hang on to my 425LST, that was a replacement for a cracked crown 410LST, rather than sell it.  Side note for upper Midwest folks…sorry for this cold weather I’m sure it will warm up when my stealth is delivered April 16th…🤞🤞

[PowerPlayer]

1 hour ago, BallerNate said:

2 months? Oh jeez man…not good.

 

Also not good that you haven’t had luck with the last 3 generations of TM drivers…that’s a very poor track record.

 

By the time you get the SIM2 dialed back in, you’ll have to get used to the new Stealth again…not a good look, Smh!

Just got an email saying that my order has been delayed until last week of June. I'll be trying that new Cobra LTDx LS this weekend. Very poor form, Taylormade. Only 2 clubs in my bag were not TM. That will change. 

[BallerNate]

11 minutes ago, PowerPlayer said:

Just got an email saying that my order has been delayed until last week of June. I'll be trying that new Cobra LTDx LS this weekend. Very poor form, Taylormade. Only 2 clubs in my bag were not TM. That will change. 

Oh man…very poor form indeed. Not a good look for TM whatsoever, especially for a Driver that was only a few weeks old.

[Nihonsei75]

11 hours ago, PowerPlayer said:

Just got an email saying that my order has been delayed until last week of June. I'll be trying that new Cobra LTDx LS this weekend. Very poor form, Taylormade. Only 2 clubs in my bag were not TM. That will change. 

@TaylorMade Golf You are clearly slippin' HERE>>>>>!!!

[FormerBigDaddy]

Hey guys… didn’t want to start a new thread so trying here first. I’m going to up upgrading from the OG SIM to the Stealth Plus shortly. 
 

Question is on stock shafts. I had the 10.5 head in the SIM with the S+60 Limited Diamana. I loved that combo in feel and results. The original sim was marketed as a lower launch club and now the Stealth Plus is marketed as Mid launch. Was going to go with 10.5 again but is it really a higher launching club?

 

Reason being is it seems as though the to stock options I have on shaft are the Hzrdus Smoke Red and the Kai’li white. Just trying to figure out which would be a better fit. I the smoke red says it’s mid launching (which is what I want). But it’s lighter than I’m used to. The kai’li white says it’s lower launch (again I prefer mid to high) but it is a similar weight I’m used to in my Diamana. My first instinct was to go with the hzrdus red. 
 

Any thoughts or reviews on these 2 stock options?

Edited April 10, 2022 by FormerBigDaddy

[Nihonsei75]

11 minutes ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

Hey guys… didn’t want to start a new thread so trying here first. I’m going to up upgrading from the OG SIM to the Stealth Plus shortly. 
 

Question is on stock shafts. I had the 10.5 head in the SIM with the S+60 Limited Diamana. I loved that combo in feel and results. The original sim was marketed as a lower launch club and now the Stealth Plus is marketed as Mid launch. Was going to go with 10.5 again but is it really a higher launching club?

 

Reason being is it seems as though the to stock options I have on shaft are the Hzrdus Smoke Red and the Kai’li white. Just trying to figure out which would be a better fit. I the smoke red says it’s mid launching (which is what I want). But it’s lighter than I’m used to. The kai’li white says it’s lower launch (again I prefer mid to high) but it is a similar weight I’m used to in my Diamana. My first instinct was to go with the hzrdus red. 
 

Any thoughts or reviews on these 2 stock options?

Interesting...where did you get under the impression of it being a mid launching head through marketing? I thought static loft would launch the same by number.

 Is it the carbon vs titanium? Could it be the urethane coating? Perhaps a lower CoG? Should I have ordered a lower loft to achieve the same traj?

   These answers and more should be coming our way by Wrxer's far more qualified than the two of our wondering minds!!!

[FormerBigDaddy]

56 minutes ago, Nihonsei75 said:

Interesting...where did you get under the impression of it being a mid launching head through marketing? I thought static loft would launch the same by number.

 Is it the carbon vs titanium? Could it be the urethane coating? Perhaps a lower CoG? Should I have ordered a lower loft to achieve the same traj?

   These answers and more should be coming our way by Wrxer's far more qualified than the two of our wondering minds!!!

Was going by this…

[Nihonsei75]

1 hour ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

Was going by this…

Nice, Thanks! Where is that from? They both have 11 categories though some are reworded and others completely different categories. Is eleven the magic number for bullet point attention spans for golfers? I summarized the comparison but I'll spare the drudgery for now.

   It may be a minute before you get answered your original inquiry, especially with The Masters weekend. If you search for keywords up top and click the "this topic" box you will find some knowledgeable answers around about your question within the last 212 pages and you'll easily see the WRXers that reappear with insught. Most of those guys will be generous with their time and respond to DMs if you have anything pressing. (Naturally I only speak from experience and not by any general expectations one should have at any time from any of these addicts!) Damned golf junkies.....

  Also, where is that from again?

Edited April 10, 2022 by Nihonsei75

[FormerBigDaddy]

7 hours ago, Nihonsei75 said:

Nice, Thanks! Where is that from? They both have 11 categories though some are reworded and others completely different categories. Is eleven the magic number for bullet point attention spans for golfers? I summarized the comparison but I'll spare the drudgery for now.

   It may be a minute before you get answered your original inquiry, especially with The Masters weekend. If you search for keywords up top and click the "this topic" box you will find some knowledgeable answers around about your question within the last 212 pages and you'll easily see the WRXers that reappear with insught. Most of those guys will be generous with their time and respond to DMs if you have anything pressing. (Naturally I only speak from experience and not by any general expectations one should have at any time from any of these addicts!) Damned golf junkies.....

  Also, where is that from again?

Taylormade website…

[BottleCap]

2 hours ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

Taylormade website…

You're going to have to provide him with the URL. His grandkids most likely aren't dropping by every weekend to give him computer lessons.

[Nihonsei75]

4 hours ago, BottleCap said:

You're going to have to provide him with the URL. His grandkids most likely aren't dropping by every weekend to give him computer lessons.

Haha! I can find it now, just couldn't remember that I've already seen it. If I don't bookmark it in my Goff folder then it never existed.

  I've been through too many bottle caps on top of some brain damage so pardon my absence of recall!

[Nihonsei75]

5 hours ago, BottleCap said:

You're going to have to provide him with the URL. His grandkids most likely aren't dropping by every weekend to give him computer lessons.

Thanks, I remember now! But I didn't do the category comparison in depth before. I usually do try harder when it's for other people's concern. My 10.5⁰ just pushed back to May 7 so my comparison will be outdated and certainly of no use coming from me. Even though your talking stock, I got an MCA email that Kai'li has been upgraded for '22 in this catalog. Not posting specifically for you or your question, just cool info!

https://issuu.com/mitsubishichemicalgolf/docs/mca-mca_2022-catalog-v8.1_pages_?fr=sNTIyNDQ4MTMxMjg

Edited April 10, 2022 by Nihonsei75

[kwettig]

Got my Stealth+ last night. 9°  Ventus Black 60x tipped 1”.  Took some swings today against my 425LST 9° with 75x Evenflow Black.  Ball speed was up a few ticks topping out at  ~176 for the Ping vs ~180 for the Stealth+. Wish I could give you club speed numbers for both but my wife threw out my foresight club stickers.  Ping was going around 120-121. Really like the Ventus shaft seems like it has straighter flight on mishits but if I hang on to it rather than releasing the head I get some super low spin numbers with the Stealth+ head. The Ping is better for on course spin numbers right now but I think with a few tweaks this Stealth+ will be a stable bomber.  Probably should have got a 10.5 and set it lower a couple ticks as I like the open face but going to try a heavier back weight and a lighter track weight to start and hopefully lead to more results like this:

[radiman]

1 minute ago, kwettig said:

Got my Stealth+ last night. 9°  Ventus Black 60x tipped 1”.  Took some swings today against my 425LST 9° with 75x Evenflow Black.  Ball speed was up a few ticks topping out at  ~176 for the Ping vs ~180 for the Stealth+. Wish I could give you club speed numbers for both but my wife threw out my foresight club stickers.  Ping was going around 120-121. Really like the Ventus shaft seems like it has straighter flight on mishits but if I hang on to it rather than releasing the head I get some super low spin numbers with the Stealth+ head. The Ping is better for on course spin numbers right now but I think with a few tweaks this Stealth+ will be a stable bomber.  Probably should have got a 10.5 and set it lower a couple ticks as I like the open face but going to try a heavier back weight and a lighter track weight to start and hopefully lead to more results like this:

That is a bomb! Hope you can get it dialed in. 

[geakins]

7 hours ago, kwettig said:

Got my Stealth+ last night. 9°  Ventus Black 60x tipped 1”.  Took some swings today against my 425LST 9° with 75x Evenflow Black.  Ball speed was up a few ticks topping out at  ~176 for the Ping vs ~180 for the Stealth+. Wish I could give you club speed numbers for both but my wife threw out my foresight club stickers.  Ping was going around 120-121. Really like the Ventus shaft seems like it has straighter flight on mishits but if I hang on to it rather than releasing the head I get some super low spin numbers with the Stealth+ head. The Ping is better for on course spin numbers right now but I think with a few tweaks this Stealth+ will be a stable bomber.  Probably should have got a 10.5 and set it lower a couple ticks as I like the open face but going to try a heavier back weight and a lighter track weight to start and hopefully lead to more results like this:

Mods can we move this to the avg swing speed forum?????   I mean I guess these are ok....LOL

[Nihonsei75]

1 hour ago, geakins said:

Mods can we move this to the avg swing speed forum?????   I mean I guess these are ok....LOL

You gotsta mainline your Wheaties Yo. You'll never get over 150 ballspeed just snortin'em!

[kwettig]

12 hours ago, geakins said:

Mods can we move this to the avg swing speed forum?????   I mean I guess these are ok....LOL

😂 sorry the ceiling is pretty low in my basement.

[BallerNate]

Well, I've been on this wild 2022 Stealth ride from the beginning, and it's been really fun.

 

Just to give an update that I picked up a Rogue ST Max over the weekend to put head-to-head vs my standard Stealth for top spot in my bag this season.

 

I've seen a few people say that the standard Stealth isn't much more forgiving that the Stealth Plus, and I've been seeing that as well. I figured the standard Stealth would be a better version of the SIM2 Max and have similar qualities, but for me personally I felt like the SIM2 Max was more explosive off the face, and was higher spin and more forgiving.

 

We'll see, I've only been able to hit balls at an indoor range, 1 outdoor range session, and 1 crappy cold live round on a course, but so far I've seen that I had better early results with the SIM2 Max and SIM2 Ti 3W than I've had with the Stealth and Stealth Plus 3W.

 

I just think the Stealth line seems like it was designed more around the lineage of the OG SIM line for the Tour guys and faster swing speed players than the SIM2 line that was built more for the everyday Golfers, but at the end of the day it's all about personal preference and finding the best fit for each person's game.

[getitdaily]

18 minutes ago, BallerNate said:

Well, I've been on this wild 2022 Stealth ride from the beginning, and it's been really fun.

 

Just to give an update that I picked up a Rogue ST Max over the weekend to put head-to-head vs my standard Stealth for top spot in my bag this season.

 

I've seen a few people say that the standard Stealth isn't much more forgiving that the Stealth Plus, and I've been seeing that as well. I figured the standard Stealth would be a better version of the SIM2 Max and have similar qualities, but for me personally I felt like the SIM2 Max was more explosive off the face, and was higher spin and more forgiving.

 

We'll see, I've only been able to hit balls at an indoor range, 1 outdoor range session, and 1 crappy cold live round on a course, but so far I've seen that I had better early results with the SIM2 Max and SIM2 Ti 3W than I've had with the Stealth and Stealth Plus 3W.

 

I just think the Stealth line seems like it was designed more around the lineage of the OG SIM line for the Tour guys and faster swing speed players than the SIM2 line that was built more for the everyday Golfers, but at the end of the day it's all about personal preference and finding the best fit for each person's game.

I have 4 rounds and multiple practice sessions with my plus. I'm still tinkering with it to find the right windows...the ones I prefer. 

 

Every round so far has been with the 1.5 adapter. 1 round in std lie and 1 notch higher loft. That setting was nearly perfect but I lost 1 driver a bit too much right because of a high strike and low spin. The other 3 rounds were at upright lie (consistently adds 200rpm spin for me) and 1 notch higher loft. The 1.5 adapter puts me at 9.5 loft, face closed (from std) about 1 degree. 

 

The upright and 1 notch high is also nearly perfect. I don't have a right miss but I've seen some low strikes stay fairly low and not have any lift. I think it's lie angle.

 

So I'm going back to the 2* adapter. That'll give me another .25* loft and will close the face another .5*. Nearly positive that upright will be too high spin so I'll try std lie and 1 notch higher loft first. If that doesn't give me all yhe right windows then I'll put my 12g front weight in and go 8g backweight. I have 10g and 10g now. 12g front weight will reduce spin and should help induce more right sidespin which MAY put me back to upright lie and 1 notchhigher loft.

 

The good is that almost all.of those settings are super playable. The other good is that this driver just goes. As @QuigleyDUstated, this driver has another gear. I've hit some bombs with this thing. 

 

Just working to get it perfect. I'm close!

[BallerNate]

9 hours ago, getitdaily said:

I have 4 rounds and multiple practice sessions with my plus. I'm still tinkering with it to find the right windows...the ones I prefer. 

 

Every round so far has been with the 1.5 adapter. 1 round in std lie and 1 notch higher loft. That setting was nearly perfect but I lost 1 driver a bit too much right because of a high strike and low spin. The other 3 rounds were at upright lie (consistently adds 200rpm spin for me) and 1 notch higher loft. The 1.5 adapter puts me at 9.5 loft, face closed (from std) about 1 degree. 

 

The upright and 1 notch high is also nearly perfect. I don't have a right miss but I've seen some low strikes stay fairly low and not have any lift. I think it's lie angle.

 

So I'm going back to the 2* adapter. That'll give me another .25* loft and will close the face another .5*. Nearly positive that upright will be too high spin so I'll try std lie and 1 notch higher loft first. If that doesn't give me all yhe right windows then I'll put my 12g front weight in and go 8g backweight. I have 10g and 10g now. 12g front weight will reduce spin and should help induce more right sidespin which MAY put me back to upright lie and 1 notchhigher loft.

 

The good is that almost all.of those settings are super playable. The other good is that this driver just goes. As @QuigleyDUstated, this driver has another gear. I've hit some bombs with this thing. 

 

Just working to get it perfect. I'm close!

Awesome man, glad you found a good fit!

 

Well, I’ll be testing out the Rogue ST Max on-course tomorrow, so we’ll see if that can end up being the best fit for me, or whether it will be the Stealth with the top spot in the bag.

[JMB3]

22 hours ago, BallerNate said:

Well, I've been on this wild 2022 Stealth ride from the beginning, and it's been really fun.

 

Just to give an update that I picked up a Rogue ST Max over the weekend to put head-to-head vs my standard Stealth for top spot in my bag this season.

 

I've seen a few people say that the standard Stealth isn't much more forgiving that the Stealth Plus, and I've been seeing that as well. I figured the standard Stealth would be a better version of the SIM2 Max and have similar qualities, but for me personally I felt like the SIM2 Max was more explosive off the face, and was higher spin and more forgiving.

 

We'll see, I've only been able to hit balls at an indoor range, 1 outdoor range session, and 1 crappy cold live round on a course, but so far I've seen that I had better early results with the SIM2 Max and SIM2 Ti 3W than I've had with the Stealth and Stealth Plus 3W.

 

I just think the Stealth line seems like it was designed more around the lineage of the OG SIM line for the Tour guys and faster swing speed players than the SIM2 line that was built more for the everyday Golfers, but at the end of the day it's all about personal preference and finding the best fit for each person's game.

I’ve found the standard Stealth to be quite spinny. I ended up selling the 10.5 I had for a 9 to bring the spin down, and I still may adjust that down a bit.  
 

Have you tried the Stealth with a TR?  That shaft has been a game changer in terms of strikes for me.