Golf Ability vs Father Time

[bluedot]

I'm 69 and still trying to play all the competitive golf I can; lifelong athlete, and always fit.  I have the Trackman printouts from my last four driver fittings, going back to 2010 when I was 58, and the swing speed decline was fairly consistent from 2010 to 2014 to 2018.  In other words, there wasn't a "moment".   But there is good news to this, too; in my most recent fitting in August of this year, I had actually regained about 3 mph, and I'm now able to get back to well over 90 mph for the first time in several years.  That's good for about 25 yards, and for seniors, that's gold.

 

I have found it to be interesting and fun and productive to fight the aging process on multiple fronts, and I think there are possibilities out there for most of us; that's one of the really unique and wonderful things about golf.  The trick is figuring out which ones to pursue and how to do that.  So I'll offer these, and I'm borrowing heavily from the golf-specific training folks that I work with:

 

1. Equipment.  If you haven't worked with a good fitter, do so asap.  How much there is to gain depends on how long ago you were last fitted, if you were, but a lot of times a good fitter can wring out some yards, either by speed or by spin or by launch angle.

 

2. Technique.  I did a full rebuild from the ground up in late 2018 because I had lost enough hand speed so that I just could "save" a bad swing anymore, at least doing what I had been doing.  It was a very demanding process; I didn't play even a hole for over a month, and didn't play competitively for nearly 4 months but it was worth it. 

 

3. Golf specific fitness training, with strength, flexibility, and mobility being parts of the total picture.  For a HUGE number of seniors, the big issue isn't flexibility or strength; it's mobility, especially in the hips. A lot of that is from the aging process itself, and it's aggravated by too much sitting.  Golf specific workouts don't look anything like either a standard weight room session, or the golf swing, but a well-designed workout built to address your own deficiencies has multiple upsides; less soreness, fewer injuries, and in a lot of cases, more speed. 

 

I have worked out for 50 years; I changed my workouts almost three years ago to try to help my golf swing.  I'll summarize my experience with these workouts this way; when I was 39, I could swing FAST without trying to swing fast, or even think about swinging fast.  At 69, I have to both try to and think about swinging fast, but getting my body in condition to do so has allowed me to swing faster while swing well. 

 

My best advice in all of this?  Find a way to enjoy the hunt for ways to mitigate the aging process.  Golf is unique that way, and thank goodness for that.  All of my other sports are long gone, never to return, but there's an opportunity almost every day in golf.  And that's cool!

 

 

[dbleag]

I agree a bunch with bluedot.

 

As our speed decreases, it's time to change equipment to match what we can do.  More height helps lower speed, so adding higher loft fairway woods and removing long irons is good.  More flex in the shafts keeps one from trying to over-muscle the swing.

 

Keeping some kind of flexibility in the hips and lower back will lessen the speed decline.

 

Staying current with swing mechanics can help lessen the speed decline.  S&T has several different ideas using spine tilt, spine extension, rotation (power of the circle), playing a draw, etc. to lessen the speed decline.

 

Finally, hope you are lucky with your health. 

[NoTalentLefty]

Not sure we who grew up when golf was played with balata and rocks can really give an exact age. Game improvements with the ball and clubs gave us more distance. “Cheater” lofts , titanium, balls that curve less on mishits, etc. But the nerves aren’t as good around greens means more time needed for practice and age sometimes means golf isn’t as high priority to get out and practice. In saying all this health can slow you down. Replacement parts and heart issues, etc.

[kowalgolf]

20 minutes ago, NoTalentLefty said:

Not sure we who grew up when golf was played with balata and rocks can really give an exact age. Game improvements with the ball and clubs gave us more distance. “Cheater” lofts , titanium, balls that curve less on mishits, etc. But the nerves aren’t as good around greens means more time needed for practice and age sometimes means golf isn’t as high priority to get out and practice. In saying all this health can slow you down. Replacement parts and heart issues, etc.

It's exercise now, meeting new people and making friends.

[SylvesterLundgren]

Ask pepper turbo guy. Mans is 70 with the coordination of a 30yr old. 😂😂

But on a serious note, WELLNESS, is your dad active?. Does he do stuff to retain competence in his moments. ? Just played yesterday with some seniors that seemed pretty solid. 
I had a class back in 2020 and I really appreciate it. The class made me realize to practice good habits and be aware of our wellness/health. 

[Duffer222]

On 9/16/2021 at 3:12 PM, The Pearl said:

Controlling for all other factors, weight training is really the only way to stem the loss of club head speed. 

I actually think it’s more related to flexibility loss  than strength.  As I passed the 60 mark, I found that flexibility was where I was losing speed, not strength.

[RainShadow]

My drop off started after a low back injury 4 years ago @ 56yo. Exacerbated by shoulder and wrist injuries in a car accident a bit over a year ago.

I've lost quite a bit of distance, but I still have an OK short game and am a good putter, so that keeps my scores in the low 80's, with a few mid-high 70's from tome to time.

 Trying to get back in the gym, but upper body work is suffering du to partial rotator cuff tears both sides.

I'm starting to concentrate on lower body, core and flexibility, which has never been great.

Hope to see an improvement over the next year with some dedication and professional help with my mechanics.

 

[miamistomp]

On 9/15/2021 at 1:38 PM, golfarb1 said:

It is estimated that people lose 3-8 % of their strength each decade past the age of 30 with the strength loss accelerating past the the age of 60.Flexibility also decreases as does the ability to balance and the ability to learn new motor skills. 
The good news is that even elderly individuals past the age of 70 can add muscle , improve balance and learn new skills ,but doing so requires WORK and a different approach from decades ago

SOME SUGGESTIONS

1. Don’t just do aerobics - Aerobics are a necessary exercise to maintain and strengthen the cardiovascular system , but are not sufficient to maintain/ increase muscle strength

2. Pump iron or use bands, but you need some type of resistance - Your goal is not to develop large muscle mass ALA Arnold , but strength and speed more akin to Bruce Lee. Body weight exercises are also a fine idea , especially if you have had joint injuries and are concerned about possible injuries

3. Yoga stretches have stood the test of time and should be included in any flexibility/ range of motion program, but the thinking now is that dynamic stretches also need to be part of any program

4. Balance is a necessary component of the golf swing and of everyday life. Since balance deteriorates as we age , we all should incorporate balance exercises  in our fitness programs 

“Do not go gently into the good night , old age should burn  and rave at close of day; Rage , rage against the dying of the light. “

DYLAN THOMAS

 

 

 Sadly, Thomas didn't get old

[Follow The Sun]

it's been my experience that some folks just age better than others ... your best bet is good old fashioned good genes ...

 

good golfing ...

[golfortennis]

19 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

I'm not convinced that working out is going to help much. Since the pandemic, I'm in shape -- a round shape.

I'm 69 and can barely touch my knees.

It's a struggle with grunts and noises when I try to get the ball out of a hole. I have to lean on my putter.

Same thing for teeing up a ball. I feel lucky if I don't fall over.

I have arthritis in my left hand. I can't make a fist.

I can barely lift a Costco pack of water from a hiatal hernia.

If I did a squat, I might never get up.

I can barely walk. I get one of those handicap flags on a golf cart.

 

But, technique and guile overcome a lot of ailments. Thanks to a wasted youth of hitting balls, I can still hit driver 240+ (which converts to 290 using the GolfWRX scale). I hit a couple the other day 270 (I raise my right hand. If you don't believe me, bring a little money and lets's play). I shot my age.

 

I'm about as flexible as a refrigerator.

 

Like I said, I'm not convinced that all that grunting and lifting and sweating people advocate is going to help you.

 

I'm going to go get some Mexican food. I need to start bulking up for the winter. 

 

 

 

But if you were a CEO all of that would go away.

[bbanksp]

so to further this discussion for the 55+ crowd, what flexibility and strength regimens can you point to that had positive results in you golf game. to pick out a specific area- anything targeted to lower back stiffness?

 

I have started working locally here in New Orleans area with https://www.guidrygolfandsport.com/ which has been quite good. Just a moth in or so but definitely feel beeter and getting stronger. Prob +3mph so far. my biggestliability seems to bee lower back stiffness from standing at the operating table for 30 years. 

[bluedot]

41 minutes ago, bbanksp said:

so to further this discussion for the 55+ crowd, what flexibility and strength regimens can you point to that had positive results in you golf game. to pick out a specific area- anything targeted to lower back stiffness?

 

I have started working locally here in New Orleans area with https://www.guidrygolfandsport.com/ which has been quite good. Just a moth in or so but definitely feel beeter and getting stronger. Prob +3mph so far. my biggestliability seems to bee lower back stiffness from standing at the operating table for 30 years. 

I'll take a shot at this.

 

First of all, a workout routine for golf is going to include some stuff that is basic to ALL workouts; bench press, dead lifts, squats, etc.  After that, there will be exercises that is aimed at rotation, speed, and separation between the lower and upper body; medicine ball work, cable pulls from a split stance to keep the lower body still while the upper body rotates and vice versa, and a lot of core work.  Most of the workout will be "super sets", where you follow a heavier weight lift like a squat, with a medicine ball throw that uses the legs and glutes for a few reps with speed.  

 

But the key to this, at least to me at age 69, is getting evaluated by somebody who REALLY knows their business to find out what your deficiencies are.  So in my case, I had to address a loss of mobility (NOT flexibility!) in my hips, which I continue to do almost daily, as well as part of EVERY workout.  Since you're a doctor, I think the analogy of the prescription and the cure being specific to the the disease is spot on; what benefits one golfer won't do much for another.  Likewise, a lot of stuff that is part of a standard weight room session might make you feel better, look better, etc, but it won't do a thing for your golf swing.

 

If you're already working with fitness professionals and seeing swing speed gains after only a month, then you already way down the right road.  I'd urge you to stay with them, and continue to periodically get reassessed; I'm sure they'll tweak your workouts as your body changes.

 

I think the bottom line for seniors regarding workouts is twofold.  First, there is a mountain of data about the value of resistance training in general to slow the aging process.  But I'd add this; any senior golfer who says that their workouts aren't helping their golf game is doing the wrong workout.  Working out is just like every other challenging endeavor; a lot of people substitute the words, "I don't need to...", when they really mean, "I don't want to...". 

 

As to your lower back stiffness, I get that 100%.  I was a HS teacher for 39 years, and stood on tile floors all day every day.  That said, I think the golf folks will tell you that most lower back issues in golfers are really about other things, often hip mobility issues that force us to use our lumbar spine to throw our upper body out of the way of our arms to complete the swing because our hips can't clear in sequence.  Your hips, shoulders, and thoracic spine are meant to rotate; your lumbar spine really isn't, and if it has to, there is trouble ahead.  All of that SHOULD get better as your body gets better, but it can take awhile for your swing to change, even after your body has.

[chipa]

On 9/17/2021 at 6:49 PM, golfarb1 said:

Squats are a cornerstone of any workout program, but good form is a prerequisite  .As with deadlifts ALWAYS  squat with a NEUTRAL SPINE and do not go below parallel to the ground if you have knee problems
 

 

Back squats are rarely done correctly imo after having worked out in gyms for 30+ years. Going down too far and too much angle in the back leaning forward, both of which will hurt the knees and back over time.

 

On the other hand front squats won't allow too much angle in the back as the bar will fall off. It is also more difficult so training is done with less weight. It is not as easy for novices to go down too far and hurt the knees as this requires not only good form but especially strong muscles that take time to develop.

[bluedot]

35 minutes ago, chipa said:

 

Back squats are rarely done correctly imo after having worked out in gyms for 30+ years. Going down too far and too much angle in the back leaning forward, both of which will hurt the knees and back over time.

 

On the other hand front squats won't allow too much angle in the back as the bar will fall off. It is also more difficult so training is done with less weight. It is not as easy for novices to go down too far and hurt the knees as this requires not only good form but especially strong muscles that take time to develop.

Absolutely correct on all points.

 

I think golf specific workouts are all going to include squats, and typically it will be a back squat because you can add speed and power thru more weight that way.  But you're dead on about the potential back issue, which is where a professional spending time to work with you on proper form is so valuable.

 

One good way to mitigate the knee issue is to use a bench or jumping platform to limit how far down you can go. 

[golfarb1]

I have mentioned this previously and some have made fun of it , but I will mention it again here

Try this simple exercise to improve your balance 

With your eyes OPEN and your arms relaxed to your side ,  stand on ONE leg for up to a minute. Make sure that you are close to a table or chair in case you lose balance . After building up to one minute on either leg , CLOSE your eyes and repeat this same exercise. You will find doing so with your eyes closed much more challenging than with your eyes open. Do this for up to 30 seconds on either leg.
 

Edited September 19, 2021 by golfarb1

[Mike_C]

I'll chime in here, I turn 60 this week.

 

I was pretty long off the tee as a kid, I grew up on a course that had wide fairways and small greens so that is how I learned to play, bomb it off the tee and work on your chipping and putting...  When I was 17 I played in an event at Pinehurst, the North and South Jr, they had a long-drive contest, and I won it.....a national field, that did open my eyes to the fact I did hit it pretty long...

 

Anyway, after college my golf time got cut way down, but about 20 years ago started playing a lot again as my kids got older, and I thought I was hitting it pretty long back then still, but was shocked how far the college kids were hitting it past me, I think it was the technology that help me.  But I must say, I am still about as long as I was back in the 2000s, driver 265-280, can get it to 300 with roll out, 7 iron about 165-170.   I haven't seen much of a drop off the past several years, maybe a bit.  My biggest problems like others have been injuries, throwing out my back, bad elbows, wrists, knees, a broken knuckle from college that acts up now and then.  About a year ago a I had a major heart attack, but I bounced back from it quite quickly, all in all my game and distance has hung in there.  

 

Workout wise, I did lose about 60 pounds in late 2017/18, and kept most of it off until the Covid lockdowns, now I'm up close to 15 pounds off my low, mostly due to lack of discipline on my diet (too much carbs).  Workouts have been light weights with a lot of repetition, stretch bands, lots of core/rotation work and some yoga/balance work.  Walk playing golf as much as possible as long as it's not too hot, and walking my dogs a couple miles a day and yard work about rounds it out. During the golf season, spring to fall, I don't do as much as in the off season, but really should. 

 

Still playing the back tees, but our course is not super long, about 7,000 maxed out.   But I play with a guy who is 72 and not a big guy, and he regularly beats his age from the back tees and hits it just about as far as me still, but he has always been really good.  

 

[Pepperturbo]

On 9/14/2021 at 6:31 PM, A.Princey said:

I hope I don’t bring too many folks down a road of depression here, but for the older WRXers on here, at what age did you most notice appreciable decline in distance and scoring? My dad is 75 now, and to his recollection, 60 was a pretty big benchmark for noticeable decline in his game. 
 

 

Most of the older guys I know including me (early 70s), it started in our late fifties early sixties.  But it depends on whether a guy regularly hits the gym or not.  Muscle reduction happens, we can't stop it, but we can slow it.   Sharing my gym regime won't benefit anyone, as its been what I've been doing for years.  Both strength and cardio... example, I do 4 set of 30 stomach crunches with 80lbs on my chest, and 30-45 min on an Elliptical at 8.

 

Thankfully, composite graphite technology is keeping me in the game.  Not sure how long I can keep it up though.  The other day wanted to see how I felt playing a difficult 6300yd white tees, only using 2 iron off all tees.  I finished with a 78 and was damn 😪 pooped.  I used to do that to 6500yds and felt great after.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[miamistomp]

 

[northgolf]

I'm 62.  My golf hasn't deteriorated since my mid forties,  but my body sure has.

 

In my 50's I went through a period where I was 30 to 40 yards shorter off the tee.  Traced that to Lipitor and after that pravachol  (both are statins).  Moved to crestor and the 40 yards were back in two weeks. 

 

In February of 2020, I was diagnosed with bilateral frozen shoulder (adhesive capsulitis), then in August of 2020 I sprained my kneck.  Together these absolutely destroyed my exercise regimen and my fitness.  Think of not being able to move without risking eye watering pain.

 

I started to be able to take swings with my  speeds sticks this past August (in July the frozen shoulders hadn't resolved enough and I needed to let go with my right hand in the follow through due to limited ROM in the right shoulder).

 

I played my first round in 23 months October 5.  My distance with driver was right where it was 2 years ago : around 240 yards.  My golf hasn't deteriorated.  

 

I've been trying to restart my exercise regimen.  My strength is depressing, getting endurance back is both slow and boring, and ROM exercises are downright painful.

 

One positive, my backswing is shorter.

[ShowMe]

I'm 59.  When I was 40, I could swing a driver at 118 mph.  I'm down to 104 these days. 

 

On the positive side, my slower swing speed means that the ball doesn't go as deep into the woods as it used to, so it's not all bad.

[ChaosTheory]

I think 60 is an approximate turning point for regular people.  I’m 63.

[Socrates]

8 minutes ago, Snowman9000 said:

I think 60 is an approximate turning point for regular people.  I’m 63.

Not quite sure if you are regular people or not. 🤔

[ChaosTheory]

7 hours ago, Socrates said:

Not quite sure if you are regular people or not. 🤔

Haha, yes, I was a bit too economical with my words.

 I’m a regular guy, and so are the guys I play with.  60 seemed to be a pretty big deal for all of us.  The worse the swing, the bigger the deal.

 

I’ve realized that as a younger person, you can overcome a bad swing with strength and speed.  At some point in the aging process, the bad swing can no longer be overcome.   That’s when you see the 70 y.o. driving the ball 150.  The 70-somethings who drive 250+ all had very good swings as younger players; you can be sure of that. 

[ShortGolfer]

I was too small to play golf when I was young.  It wasn't  until my late 30s that my weight climbed out of the 80s!  

 

I figured I'd get back in as a senior, as I could putt back then, and putting is half the game.

Then I found out about Executive golf courses and "forward tees." and figured I could do this, even having survived a stroke.

 

I've gotten my drive carry up to 150 yards as measured by my Mevo.  Without having to swing the club really hard.  Just a nice smooth swing.

 

I hit really nice iron shots, so driving is just a bonus to my game when I get that figured out.  Which is to be able to have fun on the golf course.

 

I don't think anyone cares how far you hit the ball as long as your pace of play is good.

 

I've worked really hard on my balance.  I've taken at least two ugly swings in which I've spun completely around and managed to stay on my feet! 😂

Balance may be more important than strength,  as it is hard to take a good swing once you are off the tee box without it.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by ShortGolfer