Real life experience Rogue ST Max vs Rogue ST Max LS?

[Arlin964]

I did a search and couldn’t find exactly what I was looking for. I’m hoping to hear from people who have hit both the Rogue ST Max and Rogue ST Max LS drivers.
 

I’m planning to upgrade from my Epic Speed since I have some Callaway gift cards burning a hole in my pocket. I’m undecided which model I lean toward, but here is my history: I hit both the Epic Speed and Epic max a lot last year. I much preferred Epic Speed due to two things: shaping and sound. Max was just too big a footprint for me to like, and it was too “cracky” compared to the Speed. Distance and dispersion were mostly a wash. 
 

Based on all the reviews I’ve watched and read, I understand all the specs, benefits, technology, etc. of the new models. I want to get the LS based on the shaping, but as a realistic 8-10 HCP on driver, I’m a little gun shy, thinking I shouldn’t turn down the extra forgiveness. My miss is more heel than toe, but I HATE having a two way miss. That happened with the Epic Max. I think I’d find some comfort knowing which way I’ll miss if I do. I know I should get fit, but it’s not really an option anytime soon. 

 

Anyway, I’m just looking for any real life experience from anyone who has hit both models, and how practical the differences are. Any difference in ball speed for example?

[bvanlieu]

I think its going to take a bit more time for folks to get sessions on these as the are just getting into shops. I am in a similar boat as you as I want to test both to these models o see what makes the most sense for me. Then I await  CPO and trade in my older back up driver and my Mavrik goes to the backup bag *if* there is reason to do so. 

 

This years Max doesn't see quite as max-like as the past versions, perhaps a bit less draw bias as well as LS may not be that low spin either so we gotta test for ourselves.

 

I very much want to see the ballspeed/spin retention on misses for both models and go from there. In the past I have seen their forgiving drivers for me be excellent at keeping the ball strait but spun up a bit higher: some of the reviews out there seem to show really good spin across the face on both models. 

 

This does take some time and a LM to look at the data. I plan on doing a driver fitting this spring to dig into these heads and play with some shafts 🙂 

 

 

[Ripken08]

Agree with post above.  Just got in stock and hardly out long enough for real world comparisons.  Best you're going to see now is the typical online review.

[dmeeksDC]

Tried them both (along with Stealth and new Cobra) and went with the Rogue ST Max LS head as I was getting spin around 2200 and was happy. It was only 200 less RPM in spin from Max to Max LS for me. 
 

I’ve tested a lot of low-ish spin heads. I would say the Max LS is the most forgiving of those. It is very Ping-like in forgiveness, with better sound and feel. 
 

If you like the shape of the Max LS there is little doubt you can settle on a loft that gives you optimal spin. Shaft choice might help a little, but it is mostly about getting the loft right. My setup, which has yet to arrive, is a 10.5 head set to 9.5 degrees with a Tensei Blue 65g stiff shaft. The LS is not a far more demanding head to hit vs the Max. I noticed little difference except slightly higher launch and spin in the Max vs the LS. I’m playing a B21 til it arrives — a very forgiving and underrated driver. 

Edited February 26, 2022 by dmeeksDC

[Arlin964]

33 minutes ago, dmeeksDC said:

Tried them both (along with Stealth and new Cobra) and went with the Rogue ST Max LS head as I was getting spin around 2200 and was happy. It was only 200 less RPM in spin from Max to Max LS for me. 
 

I’ve tested a lot of low-ish spin heads. I would say the Max LS is the most forgiving of those. It is very Ping-like in forgiveness, with better sound and feel. 
 

If you like the shape of the Max LS there is little doubt you can settle on a loft that gives you optimal spin. Shaft choice might help a little, but it is mostly about getting the loft right. My setup, which has yet to arrive, is a 10.5 head set to 9.5 degrees with a Tensei Blue 65g stiff shaft. The LS is not a far more demanding head to hit vs the Max. I noticed little difference except slightly higher launch and spin in the Max vs the LS. I’m playing a B21 til it arrives — a very forgiving and underrated driver. 

That’s pretty much what I was looking for:  if I lose much forgiveness if I go with LS. Head loft will be important for me. I used to be a high spin driver so I always had to loft down. But now I’m not quite as high, so it’s a harder call. I normally like to err on the side of lower lofted head so I can slightly close the face if I loft up (to help curtail my fade if it shows up), but that may not be the case with the Rogues this time. 

[golf9596]

I have hit the Stealth, Max and the Max LS. All options were hit with stock shafts. The Stealth was good, 2500 ish spin average ball speed for me 150. The Max was about the same, but I really liked the LS. The spin was in the 23-2400 area, but the ball speed was 153-155, with a high of 157(for me at 65 I was impressed). I’m going with the LS  at 8* with the stock Tensei white. I am going to try out the triple diamond later in the year, but Don’t expect better numbers. I may try my speeder 661 and the Ventus Blue TR 70-S when it arrives. These are my results, you will need to test for your self. Good luck.

[Wardman]

I also tested all the new drivers this year, with multiple shafts at CC.  I really thought the Cobra would be the driver, but went in with open mind and numbers with the Max ST LS were the best.  Not just spin, but launch was consistently around 15 which is where i needed help too (9 degree head with Accra TZ6 M4 shaft).  I think with some work, this will be great.  I am coming from the Ping 410LST that just continued to mislead my shots right (probably the indian, not the arrow).  But hey, INCOMING!!!

Edited May 7, 2022 by Wardman

[iNeedMoreGolf]

I only hit in monitor. They had the triple diamond ls which is what i wanted for the time. I usually got with whatever standard model they have... i have the mavrik standard for example. This time i wanted to try the low spin version and it happend to be triple diamond too so that was just all the reason to get it. When i hit it on monitor mostly everything was going a bit further and staying straight or a touch to the right. That was before i stock my riptide shaft in... now everything was way straighter and even further. It was pretty 😎cool

[ob1soccer]

when will all these drivers be available in shops to demo

[Avidswampthing66]

On 2/26/2022 at 8:03 PM, ob1soccer said:

when will all these drivers be available in shops to demo

I’m seeing most all of the heads in stock to try now.  Cobra was the last to rollout 

[halfsumo]

I hit them all yesterday at the store. Not really looking at numbers, just looking at sound and feel. The Max LS looks great, nice shape. The Max looks kind of weird to me by comparison. The Triple Diamond looks fast and sleek. After hitting the Rogues, I hit the Cobras and man, they just do not suit my eye at all. There's a weird section of metal on the crown where the face metal meets the carbon at the hosel that is not symmetrical and is totally distracting to me. 

 

Both the Callaways and Cobras feel fantastic. Hard to choose because I think the Max might sound the best but I like the shape the least. The Triple D I like the look the best, but not sure it is for me. The Max LS might be either a compromise or the best of both. 

[SwingBlues]

One thing with Cobra - don't underestimate their drivers. I was blown away with their Speedzone (I still have it) but this years LTD definitely should check it out. May be later in the year when people start selling heads cheap, I might have to pick one up...as I love the CNC milled face as well.

 

However, I am a Callaway guy and the Rogue ST Max LS is a STELLAR line. STELLAR!!!

 

I dare say, it is the best Epic so far. Op, you'll love the sound, a softer & muted sound. It does not have the higher pitch like the prior line.

 

Ball speed is RIDICULOUS and I am not talking middle of the face. I have a range I go to and the high net fence line is about 260. I don't carry it with Sim 2, or my Cobra or even my Epic Max LS - but this Rogue ST Max LS with the Hzrdus Green is plain NUTZ long, flew it easily and smashing the ball into the steel container behind the range fence 20 yards behind.

 

Whatever the magic sauce that Callaway has in these ST heads, its working. Best thing, I don't have to worry about any carbon face wear etc etc etc

 

I am impressed, blown away.

 

Is that real enough world experience?

[bryanwmilburn]

Any updated reviews on the Rogue Max LS? I hit this thing at an outdoor demo day yesterday and was absolutely blown away. I couldn't put it down it was so good! Straightest I've ever hit 15 drives in a row and was getting incredible ball speeds and numbers. Just when I think my driver is set for the year, this happens 😄

[cjblake09]

I tried out the Max LS with my normal 9* head and my current shaft that i play in my Stealth and i could not keep the ball in the air.  I did like the feel of it but i needed to go up in loft for sure if i was to play this head.  

[dmeeksDC]

14 hours ago, bryanwmilburn said:

Any updated reviews on the Rogue Max LS? I hit this thing at an outdoor demo day yesterday and was absolutely blown away. I couldn't put it down it was so good! Straightest I've ever hit 15 drives in a row and was getting incredible ball speeds and numbers. Just when I think my driver is set for the year, this happens 😄

You know, I thought the same thing and the same thing happened to me. Played the Epic Max LS and sometimes the B21. Those are two nice drivers. Thought there is no way the Rogue ST Max LS would be any better. 
 

But it was better across the board. Better in two fitting sessions, feel and sound are excellent. I just loved it. Drive after drive right down the middle. I do not know what Callaway did but this LS is much easier for me to hit straight vs the previous one. And accuracy is my No. 1 fitting parameter for driver because they all go far enough. Greens in reg gets me low scores. Nice straight drives makes the greens a little easier to hit!
 

It has totally lived up to the fitting on the golf course. I put a Tour AD XC 6s in it and it’s just been bombs away, yet hitting so many fairways. Stable and long. I’ve said it before — it’s the friendliest lowish spin driver I’ve ever played. I tried the Stealth Plus as well because it was the one I came in expecting to buy. I did like it, but the distances were about the same and the tight dispersion with the Rogue made it an easy call. 

[AllDunn]

Love the LS. My miss is usually a toe side miss and this thing is just so forgiving on that side of the face. I don’t lose that much at all. 

[4bees]

in my fitting i hit both the ST Max and LS versions.  Surprisingly the LS was more forgiving on mishits, also didnt spin out of control on them either.  ST just didnt do it for me in the spin category when struck well.  If you want something that spins around 2000-2200 consistently and does not punish you on mishits, the LS is the way to go for sure.

[KevCannon]

I have been playing the Rogue ST Max LS since early March and it’s been VERY very good. With this line Callaway has sort of found the holy grail combo of stability while keeping the spin down. Ball speed retention on miss hits is really kind of incredible, and the spin doesn’t jump or dip too low so that all equates to great real world results on the course. They have gone away from trying to produce super low spin launch monitor drivers, instead focusing on making the spin deviation tighter. I have the LS 9 degree (playing at 8*) paired with a Fujikura Ventus TR 6s (tipped 3/4”) and for reference i swing driver about 108-110 mph. For me this club has allowed me to play some of the best golf I’ve played in years, and the confidence with driver has bled into rest of the bag. The LS model isn’t “unforgiving” as some people might think but my miss will stray toward the toe side, I believe the regular Max model is more forgiving heel side and low on the face. Hope that helps.

[realmfg]

I've owned both but kept the Max because I like the shape better.  Both are really awesome drivers though.  Honestly, I still like my Epic Speed better overall and game it the most. 

[RainShadow]

 Only had my ST Max LS for a few weeks. 45.25" 10.5.

 Played 6 rounds, 2 with the Tensei  AV White ( Cally messed up my order), 2 with the AVBlue 65 ( Originally ordered), and 2 with the Oban Devotion 6.

Tensei White worked okay, but I tended to leave it out to the right. Tensei Blue and I have never gotten along, even though I loved the original Blueboards, thought I'd give the AV version a shot, same results, poor dispersion.

 Devotion is my driver shaft going forward. It just seems to work well for me and I've been fit to it several times over the years.

This driver is a bit (10-15yrd) longer than my G425 LST playing at the same length w/the Oban. It's much more forgiving, distance wise, on mishits. Sound/feel is 100x better. I did have to add lead tape to get it to the SW I wanted, since Callaway didn't make that adjustment for the shorter shaft.

I plan to keep it in the bag for a long time.

Very pleasant to hit ball with. Matte finish is great.

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by RainShadow

[boxerdoc]

Interesting results….(or just poor fitting on my part)

I self selected the max ls and triple diamond because I’ve traditionally been high launch and spin. Well, a buddy of mine was fit into the max so I had a chance to hit it on the range and was blown away. My fade was a baby draw and slice was straight. Fast forward to yesterday afternoon when I decided to go for a fitting and the numbers don’t lie. (Even though I don’t much like the look of the max head compared to either LS)

 

I was getting 1900-2200 spin with the max with 270 avg carry, and 3500 avg😳 with the ls and carry was 255. Does not make sense but I’ve seen on here and a few YouTube channels that have had the same🤷🏻‍♂️
happily walked out with a new max!!!

[onafriday]

Wanted to love the 10.5 Cobra LS opened up but just couldn’t get on with it.  I was still hooking the heck out of it - which is my miss. Too demanding.  
 

Had a go with the Max LS 10.5 opened up and it still drew pretty hard, but playable, but saw some straight up moon balls.  
 

Enter TD LS.  Bliss on tap.  9* straight in.  Brought the height back into range and was just so consistent and accurate.  Plenty long.  
 

All with my preferred HZRDUS blue. 
 

Most of the review videos suggest they are relatively similar, but I found the TD to be more fade biased and accurate than the Max LS.  Both out performed the Cobra.  

Edited May 21, 2022 by onafriday

[sfdoddsy]

I also found the LS more forgiving than the regular Max.

[bluedot]

On 2/25/2022 at 11:47 PM, Arlin964 said:

I did a search and couldn’t find exactly what I was looking for. I’m hoping to hear from people who have hit both the Rogue ST Max and Rogue ST Max LS drivers.
 

I’m planning to upgrade from my Epic Speed since I have some Callaway gift cards burning a hole in my pocket. I’m undecided which model I lean toward, but here is my history: I hit both the Epic Speed and Epic max a lot last year. I much preferred Epic Speed due to two things: shaping and sound. Max was just too big a footprint for me to like, and it was too “cracky” compared to the Speed. Distance and dispersion were mostly a wash. 
 

Based on all the reviews I’ve watched and read, I understand all the specs, benefits, technology, etc. of the new models. I want to get the LS based on the shaping, but as a realistic 8-10 HCP on driver, I’m a little gun shy, thinking I shouldn’t turn down the extra forgiveness. My miss is more heel than toe, but I HATE having a two way miss. That happened with the Epic Max. I think I’d find some comfort knowing which way I’ll miss if I do. I know I should get fit, but it’s not really an option anytime soon. 

 

Anyway, I’m just looking for any real life experience from anyone who has hit both models, and how practical the differences are. Any difference in ball speed for example?

I don't think you mentioned what shaft you had in the Epic Max, but I'll share an experience with you, and like you, I can't have two-way misses.

 

I got fitted for an Epic Max with the Hzrdus shaft, and the numbers were great, both on the monitor and on the course.  BUT there was often a little right tail to my ball flight, and as a player who counts on a draw, it just killed me.  I have a Flightscope, and I tested it with every hosel setting there is, but couldn't fix it.  All of us hit big blocks at times, but this little late right turn was happening on shots that I KNEW I had hit well.  It's the kind of thing that on an LM doesn't look bad, but when the ball ends up in a fairway bunker or two feet into the rough, it's a big deal.

 

Fast forward to last December when my T200 irons arrived with Tensei Blue shafts, which I already had in my Ping hybrids and loved.  Hit the irons great, and it finally dawned on me (I'm slow...) that I should put a Tensei Blue in the Epic Max; I did, and the right tail and two-way misses went away.

 

Fast forward again to a couple of weeks ago when a buddy got a Rogue and I found out that the Tensei Blue is now a stock offering in the Rogue line.  I know that you are trying to decide between the Max and Max LS, but it MAY be that the shaft change by Callaway is a bigger deal than the relative spin rates of the two heads in tightening dispersion.

 

FWIW, I think the Rogue ST is at least a marginally better head than the Epic.  Eliminating the sliding weight and putting a tungsten plug in the back to me makes the head feel and sound much more solid.  I've never liked sliding weights anyway, and I think getting rid of them is a good move by Callaway. 

[Arlin964]

That’s a great point @bluedot .  Because I had some extra clubs I didn’t need, had gift cards, Callaway had their 50% trade in bonus, and because I’m a golfwrx addict, I now have both the Max and Max LS in my possession. 🤷‍♂️
 

In the same vein of your comment, I have two different shafts with them, Tensei White and Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX. I’ve been fit into Smoke Black/RDX three times over various clubs by the same fitter, and once into the Tensei White by another fitter. Yesterday was my first time playing the Max LS and Tensei White combo. Overall it was pretty good and it felt great. 
 

Aside front one or two really bad swings that produced a big pull draw, 80% of my drives had very little curve which I really like. I was super impressed. Most were a start line slightly to the right with almost no curve. They launched high and had a nice, high peak height. That’s what I need since I can skew low on trajectory. I was a little surprised to see that the LS head sat a tiny bit closed in the N-S cog position. I don’t yet want to lower the loft to fix that due to my habit of skewing low on trajectory. I’ll goof with it one day. 
 

I also have an MMT shaft back in my storage unit (I travel full time), so I should have all the tools necessary to find the right fit between the two heads and the three shafts. Just not enough time to play all those combos as much as I want!

 

In case anyone is wondering, here are the specs of what I have. 
 

MMT 60X, 1” short

Tensei AV White 65S, 0.5” short

Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX 60S, 0.5” short

Rogue ST Max head, 10.5*
Rogue ST Max LS head, 10.5*

[bluedot]

23 hours ago, Arlin964 said:

That’s a great point @bluedot .  Because I had some extra clubs I didn’t need, had gift cards, Callaway had their 50% trade in bonus, and because I’m a golfwrx addict, I now have both the Max and Max LS in my possession. 🤷‍♂️
 

In the same vein of your comment, I have two different shafts with them, Tensei White and Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX. I’ve been fit into Smoke Black/RDX three times over various clubs by the same fitter, and once into the Tensei White by another fitter. Yesterday was my first time playing the Max LS and Tensei White combo. Overall it was pretty good and it felt great. 
 

Aside front one or two really bad swings that produced a big pull draw, 80% of my drives had very little curve which I really like. I was super impressed. Most were a start line slightly to the right with almost no curve. They launched high and had a nice, high peak height. That’s what I need since I can skew low on trajectory. I was a little surprised to see that the LS head sat a tiny bit closed in the N-S cog position. I don’t yet want to lower the loft to fix that due to my habit of skewing low on trajectory. I’ll goof with it one day. 
 

I also have an MMT shaft back in my storage unit (I travel full time), so I should have all the tools necessary to find the right fit between the two heads and the three shafts. Just not enough time to play all those combos as much as I want!

 

In case anyone is wondering, here are the specs of what I have. 
 

MMT 60X, 1” short

Tensei AV White 65S, 0.5” short

Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX 60S, 0.5” short

Rogue ST Max head, 10.5*
Rogue ST Max LS head, 10.5*

Wow! That’s some impressive inventory! You’ve got it BAD!

[dpwatkins]

I switched from a Epic Speed TD LS 10.5 to the Rogue ST Max LS and found that while I might have lost a little distance and performance on perfect strikes, that the end result was really similar on course and impressed with how stable the new heads are.  I'm guessing that if the LS version fits you that it's plenty forgiving enough versus the Max and that you're primarily playing the LS now?

[lefty74pgh]

I haven’t hit the Max, but have the ST Max LS and it is just such a great driver. It looks good at address and sounds good. I played a TS2 and PXG 0811x before I got the Max LS. The Max LS is just better in every category.

[shanka]

For those with experience with the Rogue ST LS, do you need the swing speed to make it work?  I'm currently around 85ish SS.  I was looking at the Max version, but would like stay away from the bulbous look and draw bias.  Most say forgiveness is the same for both, but will I need the SS to get it airborne?  Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[4cowboys]

On 6/1/2022 at 12:25 AM, shanka said:

For those with experience with the Rogue ST LS, do you need the swing speed to make it work?  I'm currently around 85ish SS.  I was looking at the Max version, but would like stay away from the bulbous look and draw bias.  Most say forgiveness is the same for both, but will I need the SS to get it airborne?  Any advice would be appreciated.

 

curious as well!!!