LIV with some big money announcements (*** TOPIC MODERATED ***)

[jgonz69]

If you offered 100 million or a green jacket to Rory, what does he choose?

All day every day. 

[CDM]

3 hours ago, tacklingdummy said:

 

$480,000 or $996,000 may sound like a lot of money, but that number doesn't factor in taxes, travel expenses, caddie fees, etc (costs of playing pro golf). After the costs are factored in, it is not much. 

 

Totally agree but was just pointing out how low the payout is, seems low.  I mean 16K  vs 1.25 Million is a pretty big difference.   I would think the PGAT would see what LIV is doing on that end of the payout and adjust it.

[stinger_gc]

5 hours ago, bobfoster said:

Yes ... I was sort of puzzled as to why they did this.

 

BTW - does  anyone know where/how/if it gets broadcast? Some cable channel? Streamed?

No clue. The PGA Tour is currently partnered with NBC/Golf, CBS, and ESPN through 2030. It seems like AWS (Amazon) is also partnered with the tour. I don't think Fox Sports would go all in on this either because they've got MLB, Nascar, and USFL going on right now til 4th July weekend, with NFL starting up around the time baseball is done. Netflix doesn't do live sports obviously but they've also partnered with the tour. The tour basically has every major broadcaster locked down, I'm sure Norman will come up with some BS answer about the media rights but I bet the best he could do at this point is streaming it on Instagram Live with an Iphone lol. The more I read into this the more laughable LIV seems.  

 

 

 

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/03/17/greg-norman-liv-golf-saudi-league-global-media-rights-report/

 

https://www.sportsvideo.org/2022/03/11/the-players-championship-pga-tour-entertainment-live-production-takes-major-leap-to-the-cloud/

 

[stinger_gc]

1 hour ago, jgonz69 said:

If you offered 100 million or a green jacket to Rory, what does he choose?

All day every day. 

If you offered Phil 100 million or a US Open what does he choose??

 

[bobfoster]

1 hour ago, KizIsTheMan said:

If you offered Phil 100 million or a US Open what does he choose??

 

Phil isn't going to be offered $100MM - he just isn't that important anymore. LIV is going to go down in flames. 

[tacklingdummy]

On 4/28/2022 at 6:23 PM, bobfoster said:

Phil isn't going to be offered $100MM - he just isn't that important anymore. LIV is going to go down in flames. 

 

It has been reported that Phil is getting 30M USD guaranteed for 8 LIV events, but that does not include prize money. So, there is a ton of money on the table. 

 

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/golf-2022-phil-mickelson-reportedly-accepts-42-million-liv-golf-deal-005925910.html

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by tacklingdummy

[Foreleft]

On 3/16/2022 at 12:53 PM, PorkChopExpress said:

54 players with no cuts - guaranteed moneyz - 20 million ind, 5 mil team. 

 

edit - that's a lot of moola folks are gonna bail

The first seven events will boast a $25 million purse, $20 million for individual prizes and another $5 million for the team competition. The eighth event will offer $30 million for the top three players of the season, with another $50 million for teams in total prize funds.

They don’t have a great reputation when they promise no cuts.

[stinger_gc]

My position on LIV is that it's not a great business model and it's gonna fail for one reason or another within a year or so. With that said would a struggling rookie like Dylan Wu (he's only made 300k on tour this and has 2 top 25s) consider playing LIV for the $$$?? And would LIV consider targeting a player like this? I feel like targeting a young rookie is a better strategy. Cut off the new crop from playing the tour and worry about the rest later.

[JRS1939]

1 hour ago, KizIsTheMan said:

My position on LIV is that it's not a great business model and it's gonna fail for one reason or another within a year or so. With that said would a struggling rookie like Dylan Wu (he's only made 300k on tour this and has 2 top 25s) consider playing LIV for the $$$?? And would LIV consider targeting a player like this? I feel like targeting a young rookie is a better strategy. Cut off the new crop from playing the tour and worry about the rest later.

It's a terrible business model but I'm not so sure they care.  They're will to lay the money on the table to risk it and they have to know that the chances it succeeds is very minimal and also only will happen if the big time names take the bait.

[oikos1]

Lol.  Of course it's weird.

 

Eventually the money will sort it out. 

[smashdn]

I guess I will be in the minority as I want to see it work.  I want to see it work as an international alternative to the DP/Euro and Asian Tours.  If the money can prop the LIV long enough to give the european and asian players a good and competitive option I would not mind that.

 

The DP Tour is circling the drain IMO.  The PGAT is siphoning off the better players and slowly letting it bleed out.

 

The LIV, if it gets going, will probably find that Euro/Asian niche for its tournaments and eventually overtake the DP Tour.  At that point the PGAT will have to deal with it as a near equal.

 

I will have to go back and look at the history of some of the births of the US based developmental tours, but did the PGAT have a negative stance on the Hogan Tour, Nike Tour, Hooters Tour, etc?  I get those are feeder type pro tours, but does a KFT player need to get clearance to go play one of those other events for some reason?  Maybe I need to better understand if the trappings that PGAT players have also apply to the KFT players the same way.

[Scooby555]

I can't wait for LIV to start.  Hopefully i'll get to watch some of the first event.  If not, i'll follow it on the interwebs.

[CDM]

11 hours ago, JRS1939 said:

It's a terrible business model but I'm not so sure they care.  They're will to lay the money on the table to risk it and they have to know that the chances it succeeds is very minimal and also only will happen if the big time names take the bait.

 

Agree based on what we have been provided for information it appears to be a "terrible business" model,

 

The statement of going after the younger talent, that is not a bad thought.   If you get the younger players, say 25-30% of them struggling to get a tour card it would split up the talent pool and  in theory cut at the PGAT down the road.    

 

There is a number of players on the PGAT I think may have went the LIV golf route to start careers to hone the skills had it been out 4-5 years ago.  Big fan of Will Zalatoris and how struggle at first to get to the PGAT card.  Amazing talent  He had 2 years of interesting process honing his skills.  Hands down the talent was there just took a few years to channel it. 

 

We all have seen that "local" or "top state player" that everyone says is a guaranteed PGAT player and it never happens.  There was a local kid (not going to name him) who is great person and was the amateur at Beth Page that got a lot of attention and all figured he was no brainer.  Sadly it did not happen. 

 

If LIV makes it, given the endless resources (...sad as that point is....) we all know what is coming.  Some young player(s) will start winning / dominating and then the "cancel culture" crowd will go off on that player, criticizing him, saying he is not good enough for the PGAT, etc.  The real sad part maybe he could be, maybe not but the PGAT (...one person...) will not let him find out if he decides what is best for him is LIV golf to start his career and hone his skills. 

[Duct Tape]

Good for them!

 

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/report-dp-world-tour-to-decline-saudi-golf-series-releases?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR1WUekE7Hz3eqFrHeCdiGDXlYnuLz5Z5bjGRlvOaU6kw6VRP7hGlddM4-8  
 

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

I guess I will be in the minority as I want to see it work.  I want to see it work as an international alternative to the DP/Euro and Asian Tours.  If the money can prop the LIV long enough to give the european and asian players a good and competitive option I would not mind that.

 

The DP Tour is circling the drain IMO.  The PGAT is siphoning off the better players and slowly letting it bleed out.

 

The LIV, if it gets going, will probably find that Euro/Asian niche for its tournaments and eventually overtake the DP Tour.  At that point the PGAT will have to deal with it as a near equal.

 

I will have to go back and look at the history of some of the births of the US based developmental tours, but did the PGAT have a negative stance on the Hogan Tour, Nike Tour, Hooters Tour, etc?  I get those are feeder type pro tours, but does a KFT player need to get clearance to go play one of those other events for some reason?  Maybe I need to better understand if the trappings that PGAT players have also apply to the KFT players the same way.

All unclear at this point......

[One Putter]

I mean, it would be one thing if the Saudis were paying what the product is worth for these tournaments. But they aren't. And that's what makes it such an egregious sham.

Edited April 29, 2022 by One Putter

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, One Putter said:

I mean, it would be one thing if the Saudis were paying what the product is worth for these tournaments. But they aren't. And that's what makes it such an egregious sham.

 

When you say the product, do you mean the actual golf or the eyes you draw and the potential advertising sales?

 

When I first read what you posted I sort of thought to myself, is a golf tournament really worth the total purse.  The Memorial has a total purse of 9.3 million.  That is just what the players get out of it. No telling how much it actually costs to put on by the time you figure in infrastructure and salaries.

[tacklingdummy]

3 hours ago, Duct Tape said:

Good for them!

 

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/report-dp-world-tour-to-decline-saudi-golf-series-releases?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR1WUekE7Hz3eqFrHeCdiGDXlYnuLz5Z5bjGRlvOaU6kw6VRP7hGlddM4-8  
 

 

 

The players that committed to play the LIV events are probably ok with that. Less competition. 

 

 

[hunterdog]

22 hours ago, KizIsTheMan said:

My position on LIV is that it's not a great business model and it's gonna fail for one reason or another within a year or so. With that said would a struggling rookie like Dylan Wu (he's only made 300k on tour this and has 2 top 25s) consider playing LIV for the $$$?? And would LIV consider targeting a player like this? I feel like targeting a young rookie is a better strategy. Cut off the new crop from playing the tour and worry about the rest later.

The Dylan Wu’s of the world, better cash in a lot. If the Saudi Tour takes off, with 48 player events, how long will they be on that tour? They play for a season, maybe two, until someone more famous takes their spot. Now where do they go? The PGAT and KFT won’t be there for them. 

[stinger_gc]

45 minutes ago, hunterdog said:

The Dylan Wu’s of the world, better cash in a lot. If the Saudi Tour takes off, with 48 player events, how long will they be on that tour? They play for a season, maybe two, until someone more famous takes their spot. Now where do they go? The PGAT and KFT won’t be there for them. 

The PGA Tour is way ahead of this already. 

 

"The Tour intends to stage between four and six events annually outside of the United States, in Europe, Asia and the Middle East. While internal discussions are continuing on specifics, tentative plans call for between four and six events, with fields limited to 50 or 60 competitors and no halfway cut. The source likened the new events to an amped-up World Golf Championships swing that will ensure riches for elite players regardless of how they perform." 

 

 

 

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2021/11/11/pga-tour-launch-guaranteed-money-events-for-top-stars/

 

 

 

 

[One Putter]

18 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

When you say the product, do you mean the actual golf or the eyes you draw and the potential advertising sales?

 

When I first read what you posted I sort of thought to myself, is a golf tournament really worth the total purse.  The Memorial has a total purse of 9.3 million.  That is just what the players get out of it. No telling how much it actually costs to put on by the time you figure in infrastructure and salaries.

Just think about how much a pro football player or pro basketball player's contract is worth. Mostly due to media rights and advertising from what i understand, but when you look at it, there's multiple websites(like reddit) with hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of active users discussing those sports. Then you have individual team websites, and some of those are very busy as well. The amount of people participating is quite apparent.

 

Now look at golf. Theres is this one semi-active website where i come to discuss golf. There might be a thread or two about golf on other websites, but it's pretty clear that not *that* many people are truly watching pro golf week-in and week-out. Hell, i consider myself a HUGE golf fan, i watch the seniors and ladies when i can, but even i dont watch every pro golf event. And there's not a ton of people with interest as high as mine.

 

So again, just by simple observation, you can know that what these LIV things are paying just doesnt add up. It isnt sustainable. The interest in pro golf just isnt there to recuperate the cost. And guess what, people with lots of money like that, didnt get all that money by throwing it away on stupid endeavors. They will get bored with it, or there will be infighting and power will change hands, and/or they will find some better way to do their "washing".

Edited April 30, 2022 by One Putter

[tacklingdummy]

5 hours ago, One Putter said:

Just think about how much a pro football player or pro basketball player's contract is worth. Mostly due to media rights and advertising from what i understand, but when you look at it, there's multiple websites(like reddit) with hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of active users discussing those sports. Then you have individual team websites, and some of those are very busy as well. The amount of people participating is quite apparent.

 

Now look at golf. Theres is this one semi-active website where i come to discuss golf. There might be a thread or two about golf on other websites, but it's pretty clear that not *that* many people are truly watching pro golf week-in and week-out. Hell, i consider myself a HUGE golf fan, i watch the seniors and ladies when i can, but even i dont watch every pro golf event. And there's not a ton of people with interest as high as mine.

 

So again, just by simple observation, you can know that what these LIV things are paying just doesnt add up. It isnt sustainable. The interest in pro golf just isnt there to recuperate the cost. And guess what, people with lots of money like that, didnt get all that money by throwing it away on stupid endeavors. They will get bored with it, or there will be infighting and power will change hands, and/or they will find some better way to do their "washing".

 

 

So,  why is the PGA Tour worrying about it, if the LIV business is not sustainable, they will get bored with it, and close up shop shortly?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by tacklingdummy

[Golfnuck]

On 4/30/2022 at 6:01 AM, One Putter said:

Just think about how much a pro football player or pro basketball player's contract is worth. Mostly due to media rights and advertising from what i understand, but when you look at it, there's multiple websites(like reddit) with hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of active users discussing those sports. Then you have individual team websites, and some of those are very busy as well. The amount of people participating is quite apparent.

 

Now look at golf. Theres is this one semi-active website where i come to discuss golf. There might be a thread or two about golf on other websites, but it's pretty clear that not *that* many people are truly watching pro golf week-in and week-out. Hell, i consider myself a HUGE golf fan, i watch the seniors and ladies when i can, but even i dont watch every pro golf event. And there's not a ton of people with interest as high as mine.

 

So again, just by simple observation, you can know that what these LIV things are paying just doesnt add up. It isnt sustainable. The interest in pro golf just isnt there to recuperate the cost. And guess what, people with lots of money like that, didnt get all that money by throwing it away on stupid endeavors. They will get bored with it, or there will be infighting and power will change hands, and/or they will find some better way to do their "washing".

 

LIV - brand advertising for the Saudi absolute monarchy.  The monarchy rules over 32 million people with complete authority including 100% of the natural resources of the country.  In other words this one ruling family owns the whole country.

 

Absolute monarchies around the world are falling by the wayside.  One of the problems when your are overthrown is that not only do you lose the $$$ a lot of times you die.

 

Their "brand" is not very good right now in the western world as Phil as eloquently stated.  Frankly it would not take much to have one of the western powers go in and take them out.

 

So they need to improve their "brand". 

 

The revenue stream from oil is $500 to $600 billion a year.  

 

Add investment income from the $1.3 trillion investment fund (again the monarchy's money) and spending US$1.2 billion is chump change.

 

Now of course the monarchy has to dispense some money to keep the 32 million citizens in their place.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Golfnuck

[tiderider]

On 4/28/2022 at 9:29 PM, KizIsTheMan said:

My position on LIV is that it's not a great business model and it's gonna fail for one reason or another within a year or so. With that said would a struggling rookie like Dylan Wu (he's only made 300k on tour this and has 2 top 25s) consider playing LIV for the $$$?? And would LIV consider targeting a player like this? I feel like targeting a young rookie is a better strategy. Cut off the new crop from playing the tour and worry about the rest later.

it's not a business model ... they're not doing it to make money ... 

[NoFancyUsername.]

On 4/29/2022 at 11:59 AM, KizIsTheMan said:

My position on LIV is that it's not a great business model and it's gonna fail for one reason or another within a year or so. With that said would a struggling rookie like Dylan Wu (he's only made 300k on tour this and has 2 top 25s) consider playing LIV for the $$$?? And would LIV consider targeting a player like this? I feel like targeting a young rookie is a better strategy. Cut off the new crop from playing the tour and worry about the rest later.

Which part of the business model is terrible?.....and what "reason or another" do you think it will be, that it will fail within a year?

[manku]

There is already too much sport on television.  I can barely watch 15 seconds of this weeks tournament in PV without turning the channel.  
 

We need more televised golf like we need a hole in the head.  

[Titleist99]

20 minutes ago, manku said:

There is already too much sport on television.  I can barely watch 15 seconds of this weeks tournament in PV without turning the channel.  
 

We need more televised golf like we need a hole in the head.  

I think that I could stand a little golf at 1:00 AM......gives me another reason to get up in the middle of the night.

[stinger_gc]

2 hours ago, NoFancyUsername. said:

Which part of the business model is terrible?.....and what "reason or another" do you think it will be, that it will fail within a year?

The fact that Norman's letting Ams play to fill the field

[stinger_gc]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

I think that I could stand a little golf at 1:00 AM......gives me another reason to get up in the middle of the night.

Are you currently single?

[Titleist99]

16 hours ago, KizIsTheMan said:

Are you currently single?

Just an ardent golf fan......